MacMini changes and impact on possible iMac update

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
The new Mini debuted today with a major shrink in size, removal of the power brick, minimal bumps in cpu power and a better IGP. Oh yeah and a SD card on the backside along with HDMI. It also came along with a $100 price increase.



Given that the only Apple line still using the 9400M is the iMac, what are people anticipating for changes to the iMac line? Given Apple's insistence on staying with c2d for the Mini, I'm not anticipating much of a change on the iMac besides replacing the IGP with the 320M. Possibly they would be able to get rid of the chin, but if we see any form factor changes, I think we will expect to see prices increase another $100, just like the Mini.



I'd love to see the entire iMac line revamped to i5 minimum with i7 available in top end models and DX11 capable graphics. They could weave in the switchable graphics just as a way to help maintain lower power usage when not doing anything graphics intensive, and to help try and get rid of the heat issues the iMac currently experiences as well. While these are things I would like to see happen, I'm not terribly hopeful they would. This would allow them to reduce the iMac lineup to 2 options as well.



21.5": i5-750 4GB RAM 1TB hdd 5XXX series ATI vcard (BTO options for more RAM, hdd, i7 860 cpu)

27": i5-750 4GB RAM 1TB hdd 5XXX series ATI vcard (BTO options for more RAM, hdd, i7 875k cpu)



Main price differentiator would be monitor size and possibly an extra higher cpu option. The model options listed above keeps everything on the LGA1156 platform and would make the entire iMac lineup quad-core. CPU savings to offer an extra low-end dual core i5 option is only about $40, so it isn't really going to make a difference.



Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    The new Mini debuted today with a major shrink in size, removal of the power brick, minimal bumps in cpu power and a better IGP. Oh yeah and a SD card on the backside along with HDMI. It also came along with a $100 price increase.



    It is a pretty good update if you ask me. One can argue about the price hike is a problem, but even here comparing Apples to Apples it isn't that bad.

    Quote:

    Given that the only Apple line still using the 9400M is the iMac, what are people anticipating for changes to the iMac line? Given Apple's insistence on staying with c2d for the Mini, I'm not anticipating much of a change on the iMac besides replacing the IGP with the 320M. Possibly they would be able to get rid of the chin, but if we see any form factor changes, I think we will expect to see prices increase another $100, just like the Mini.



    If the 9400M based iMac is updated this year it will go with the 320M and Core 2. It would be for about only six months until AMD and Intel get their new SoC out. As to a price increase extending to the iMac I don't see it. The thing here is that they don't need a major overhaul of the iMac to deliver this upgrade.



    For the higher end machines the discusion doesn't make sense as they are not as limited GPU and processor wise. What is likely to happen is processor/GPU bumps.

    Quote:

    I'd love to see the entire iMac line revamped to i5 minimum with i7 available in top end models and DX11 capable graphics.



    It is good to have a very low end model. Apple will keep improving the base model next year with Sandy Bridge or AMD's fusion. So I suspect stop gap measures for the low end. Either way Apple goes in 2011, the new SoC will enable a smaller base line iMac or at the very least a lower power one.

    Quote:

    They could weave in the switchable graphics just as a way to help maintain lower power usage when not doing anything graphics intensive, and to help try and get rid of the heat issues the iMac currently experiences as well. While these are things I would like to see happen, I'm not terribly hopeful they would. This would allow them to reduce the iMac lineup to 2 options as well.



    I'm not aware of heat issues with the current iMacs.



    However the iMacs really don't need switchable graphics. At the low end a decent IGPU can be had with what is on the market. At the high end they have gotten away from IGPUs all together.

    Quote:



    21.5": i5-750 4GB RAM 1TB hdd 5XXX series ATI vcard (BTO options for more RAM, hdd, i7 860 cpu)

    27": i5-750 4GB RAM 1TB hdd 5XXX series ATI vcard (BTO options for more RAM, hdd, i7 875k cpu)



    Main price differentiator would be monitor size and possibly an extra higher cpu option. The model options listed above keeps everything on the LGA1156 platform and would make the entire iMac lineup quad-core. CPU savings to offer an extra low-end dual core i5 option is only about $40, so it isn't really going to make a difference.



    Thoughts?



    It won't be a problem to update considerably the current line up just by swapping the parts on the PC board. The next rev in 2011 will be a major overhaul.



    Dave
  • Reply 2 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,216member
    Agree with Dave





    IMac doesn't need much modificatIon IMO, it could get thinner however. I see SoC being the next hardware thrust along with faster IO.



    I still await a Home Server. Though I'm thinking it could come in the form of a SW add on rather than strictly a boxed product.
  • Reply 3 of 21
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I'm not aware of heat issues with the current iMacs.



    Quite a number of tales across the net, including these forums, of people who say their iMac gets uncomfortably hot to the touch. I did a quick Google for Imac hot and found numerous threads discussing exactly that.
  • Reply 4 of 21
    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Posts: 1,772member
    I think the low-end iMac will most likely get Intel's new desktop platform; that is, a desktop i5 processor, and a low-end discrete graphics chip like the Geforce 330. The iMac does not suffer from the size problem the Macbook and Mac mini have.
  • Reply 5 of 21
    irelandireland Posts: 17,547member
    The iMac is fine, not so sure about 16:9 though.
  • Reply 6 of 21
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Quite a number of tales across the net, including these forums, of people who say their iMac gets uncomfortably hot to the touch. I did a quick Google for Imac hot and found numerous threads discussing exactly that.



    First I have to ask is that the current model or past models because honestly I haven't heard anything lately related to current models.



    As to being uncomfortable to touch that is meaningless as that can imply a wide range of temperatures. Frankly I just got into an arguement in a machine tool building forum where one guy was implying that you could tell if a motor was running to hot by touching it. I will spare everyone the details but for the most part you can't tell. Some will run very hot to the touch and others can barely stand to warm up over room temp. It is all about design and how heat is radiated away.



    The same applies for iMac, there are a number of factors to consider. The metal housing is one, internal temps is another, personal sensitivity is a third and we could go on. The point is are the components inside exceeding their design limits. If not we don't have a problem.



    Frankly many seem to go psycho if their new pride and joy gets a little warm. That is one thing for a living and breathing new born but it another thing for a computer.



    Dave
  • Reply 7 of 21
    1337_5l4xx0r1337_5l4xx0r Posts: 1,558member
    One could argue the Aluminum getting hot is a good thing... it is radiating heat out, keeping he internals cooler. If Apple made machines out of stainless steel, they'd be warm to the touch, but the internals would fry in about 3 hours. Food or thought.
  • Reply 8 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,216member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post


    One could argue the Aluminum getting hot is a good thing... it is radiating heat out, keeping he internals cooler. If Apple made machines out of stainless steel, they'd be warm to the touch, but the internals would fry in about 3 hours. Food or thought.



    +1



    Be worried if you have an aluminum housing and it "doesn't" get warm.
  • Reply 9 of 21
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post


    One could argue the Aluminum getting hot is a good thing... it is radiating heat out, keeping he internals cooler. If Apple made machines out of stainless steel, they'd be warm to the touch, but the internals would fry in about 3 hours. Food or thought.



    More so because I does conduct heat well it transfers it to your fingers much faster than other materials.



    Complaints about hot Macs should only be allowed with supporting evidence. That evidence needs to come from quality temperature measuring devices, not somebodies fingers.



    Dave
  • Reply 10 of 21
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69

    I'm not aware of heat issues with the current iMacs.

    Quite a number of tales across the net, including these forums, of people who say their iMac gets uncomfortably hot to the touch. I did a quick Google for Imac hot and found numerous threads discussing exactly that.



    Not aware? Then you can't have one.



    I have one.



    Anything which involves breaking a sweat eg playing Half Life 2 (an old game by the way...) and the top part of the frame gets uncomfortably hot, yes, hot, not warm, hot to the touch.



    It's warm at the top as standard. But crank her up? Ouch time.



    They need a better cooling system.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 11 of 21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    More so because I does conduct heat well it transfers it to your fingers much faster than other materials.



    Complaints about hot Macs should only be allowed with supporting evidence. That evidence needs to come from quality temperature measuring devices, not somebodies fingers.



    Dave



    How pompous.



    'Only be allowed...?'



    I think you're losing it Dave.



    How about I cellotape your face to the top of my iMac while I play Half Life 2? I give you a few minutes before you cry uncle.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 12 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,216member
    All I care about is CPU temp. If it's within a reasonable range then I care not what the exterior feels like.
  • Reply 13 of 21
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    How pompous.



    'Only be allowed...?'



    I think you're losing it Dave.



    Not at all. We just need to focus on facts. When somebody says xyz is hot to the touch it really doesn't mean anything. Well anything to anybody but themselves.

    Quote:



    How about I cellotape your face to the top of my iMac while I play Half Life 2? I give you a few minutes before you cry uncle.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    That is silly, do you run around grabbing other things know to be hot?



    Dave
  • Reply 14 of 21
    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Posts: 1,772member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Not aware? Then you can't have one.



    I have one.



    Anything which involves breaking a sweat eg playing Half Life 2 (an old game by the way...) and the top part of the frame gets uncomfortably hot, yes, hot, not warm, hot to the touch.



    It's warm at the top as standard. But crank her up? Ouch time.



    They need a better cooling system.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Is the processor overheating? Is the graphics chip overheating? Is the hard drive overheating? The other internal components, like capacitors?



    If the answer to those questions is no, then the cooling system is working perfectly. The case doesn't matter, heat isn't going to hurt it.
  • Reply 15 of 21
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Keep anything flammable away from the top of your iMac is probably sensible I'd be curious if anyone has taken actual temperature recordings.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Not at all. We just need to focus on facts. When somebody says xyz is hot to the touch it really doesn't mean anything. Well anything to anybody but themselves.



    That is silly, do you run around grabbing other things know to be hot?



    Dave



    Sounds like you're not convinced the iMac really is all that 'cool'.



    Silly? You started it.



    Dave, you're dismissed from class. Because you're saying xyz. And it doesn't really mean anything. 'Facts'. Sounds like things are only facts if you say they are.



    I know my iMac gets hot on the top left corner (as I face it...) because my hand gets 'ouchy' when I touch it under load playing an old game.



    To me this is a fact. Nothing you say is a fact to me. But seeing as I've experienced this pinnacle of Apple design/cooling 1st hand, I can assure you the iMac gets 'hot' to the touch. Not warm. 'Hot' under load.



    My offer of gaffer taping your face to my iMac still stands if you really want to test my 'fact.'



    Trust me, you'll 'wave' Uncle within 5 minutes. After two hours of gaming your face will melt.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 17 of 21
    As for what the Mini means for the next iMac update.



    I shudder to think as a UK customer. What with the mini formerly being a sub 400£ computer to a £695 one.



    The iMac has gone from being a £695 computer with integrated crappics to a £995 one. That's a £300 hike. Put that in yer US dollars. With Apple still clinging to dear life to those crappy core duos that are ancient. ie from my iMac. Y'know. The one that is now a two year old computer?



    What I'd like to see is the i5 go low end. With immediate effect. i7 on both top models. That will only leave them trailing 6 core AMD sets ups by about the usual Apple premium of...£300-600. Not to mention another vram, low end crippled gpu. And ram stuck at 4 gigs.



    What this means for the 'pro' 'workstation' with a 'consumer' gpu? A price increase to above £2k I'm guessing.



    I'm an Apple fan. Re- OS and Design.



    But don't get me started on the specs. You could argue that the design compromises the spec choice. But we now have i7s as an 'option' (GREEDY APPLEL!) on the top end iMac...which proved all the doubters on that one wrong.



    And the 'pro'? What's its excuse? A 2K computer with a consumer card and quad core. Where's the six core we are now seeing on Windows systems..?



    And where's the goddamn price cut?



    £2300 mac 'pro' coming up. With an option for a medium range gpu for a further £300. And a 27 inch monitor which Apple will hose us to the tune of...I dunno...anyone care to guess?



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 18 of 21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Keep anything flammable away from the top of your iMac is probably sensible I'd be curious if anyone has taken actual temperature recordings.



    I'm curious if people like touching burny objects with oven gloves.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    That is providing factual data. That is real temperature measurements of the case and an indication of processor and GPU temperature.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Sounds like you're not convinced the iMac really is all that 'cool'.



    Silly? You started it.



    I'm not the one making irrational statements here.

    Quote:

    Dave, you're dismissed from class. Because you're saying xyz. And it doesn't really mean anything. 'Facts'. Sounds like things are only facts if you say they are.



    Nope what I'm saying is that you can't rely on what one person say when talking about temperatures. The problem is people have a wide range of sensitivity and ability to tolerate temperature. Ask to woman, one that works in a bakery and one that works in an ice cream shop, if your Mac is hot and you will get two different answers.



    By simply providing a temperature measurement you take the human factor out of the equation.

    Quote:

    I know my iMac gets hot on the top left corner (as I face it...) because my hand gets 'ouchy' when I touch it under load playing an old game.



    Didn't your mother tell you not to touch the stove when you where a youngster?



    Look this is real simple, electronics by there nature generate heat under use. That heat has to go somewhere and on an iMac that is up. The Aluminum case be it's nature coducts that heat away. The question you have to ask your self is the logic board or any specific chips getting hot. I would suspect not because then you would be online complaining about a flaky computer.

    Quote:

    To me this is a fact. Nothing you say is a fact to me.



    Nothing has been quantified here so it is nothing more than an opinion. If you can't see the difference between an opinion and fact then this conversation won't go anywhere. In any event I'm not here to defend the iMac, all I'm saying is that I'm tired of these garbage posts about XYZ machine being hot. Especially when somebody says it hurts to touch my Mac.

    Quote:

    But seeing as I've experienced this pinnacle of Apple design/cooling 1st hand, I can assure you the iMac gets 'hot' to the touch. Not warm. 'Hot' under load.



    Yeah we have heard you again and again but still it is just an opinion. If you can't understand that hot implies a range of possibilities then we aren't going to ever agree on what is hot.

    Quote:

    My offer of gaffer taping your face to my iMac still stands if you really want to test my 'fact.'



    Trust me, you'll 'wave' Uncle within 5 minutes. After two hours of gaming your face will melt.



    It might improve my face!!!!!



    Here is the problem though, your/my face doesn't belong there. It makes about as much sense as opening up a PC and putting your finger on one of those 200 watt GPUs.

    Quote:

    Lemon Bon Bon.



    I find this discussion interesting because it isn't just the iMac that gets slagged in this manner. I have a MBP 15" model that seems to have the same reputation among some of burning people. You know what, my MBP has never burned me; so if I'm a little reluctant to buy into this idea that Macs are burning people then you understand why.



    Remember frying pans have handles for a reason.







    Dave
  • Reply 20 of 21
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    Is the processor overheating? Is the graphics chip overheating? Is the hard drive overheating? The other internal components, like capacitors?



    If the answer to those questions is no, then the cooling system is working perfectly. The case doesn't matter, heat isn't going to hurt it.



    How would you know if those components were overheating? Is there a way to check them?
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