I'm not a 100% certain it's the case, but it looks like you need to unscrew the logic board from the case and slide the back out a little to access the HDD. It would be nice if they made it removable without taking the logic board out.
I also wonder what the space is for the HDD. For example, Apple using 9.5mm HDDs in their Unibody MBPs but they all will take the 12.5mm HDDs just fine. If the Mac Mini does this it could mean 1TB capacity (or 2TB for the Server version).
It sort of looks like you could get the hard drive out without removing the logic board but if not then I'd say it's worse that the old one in that regard. You're not likely to switch the drive often but it's unnecessary to require disconnecting so many parts to get to it - you almost have to take apart the whole machine. There are 3 cables on it (two of which seem to be thermal sensors) and once those are off, you may be able to lift it up and out.
If it's so tight a fit that you can't do that, there's also no way a 12.5mm drive will go in there. The server model should still take one 12.5mm drive but in the slot where the optical was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Looking at the engineering (or "over-engineering" as Marvin put it) I don't think it's an excessive for the product. Plus, i have to think Apple knows who's buying them more than we do.
When you look at the laptops, you get the top shell which is carved aluminum and the bottom plate is simply screwed on. Once you unscrew that bottom plate, all the components are accessible.
All Apple had to do was put 4 screws on the bottom of the Mini with a fairly flat aluminum plate. Obviously there would be 4 screw holes but it's on the bottom, where nobody sees them. Even if the rubber pad was still there but the 4 screw holes were visible when it was removed and then you just take the entire bottom plate off.
I thought that the only very nicely priced piece of hardware computerwise that apple has was the mini.
Now there is no option for the lower end. This seems like the beginning of the end for os x. Apple really doesnt seem too intrested in developing the platform after snowleopard even if it says otherwise.
I can barely grasp the unibody consept in notebooks and mobile devices but I have to say that this is so just cosmetic compared to the old mini. And dont come saying they couldnt have used the old style case (non-unibody) with just some modifications to get it easier and better to open (even if it takes me just 1 minute to open the old mini (yea, I have upgraded tons of em) ). I have hade 10:s of people replace their old pc hardware with minis but the price-decrease just makes it impossible to make the transition after this. It will be just better idea to buy an atom/ion platform with same footprint 350Euros and stick with W7 (even though they have lesser prosessing power). The pricedifference is just not justified anymore (yea not everybody needs the cpu power).
I really think Ive should be held back atleast little on the ground with dedsign thing. Can somebody tell me why the unibody thing on this mini does for the average user. Its not like the case was unstable before? Its just a stupid and VERY costly design gimick in my eyes. They should have made the case easier to open and not more expensive to manufacture (just bad politics).
It just will be my last mini I guess.... and maybe Apple. Atleast Ill be buying less apple hardware in this trend.... Apple should still sell 500Eur hardware for os X! I was quite enthusiastic about this upgrade but the price just is quite rediculous. And DONT bullshit me about not being able to make cheaper machines. Atleast in these times they shouldnt make more expensive upgrades when everybody else just upgrades the hardware to fit mores law to justify the old price. The same money will just buy more cpu power later than at this time. That is just industry facts. Well ION platforms with same footprint just became 100% more attrictive (with the priceincrease).
As Apples success and popularity increases Steve and Johnny start to become more dead weight versus popularity. They have their own agendas and dont seem motivated to increase platform penetration aswell as profit. They dont want to expand on the success. They want to increase the prices to stop the platform of getting more popular and that way increase profit. This is not the only option but its the option that will stagnate the platform (mac)
This means good times for W7 and Android im affraid.
May I ask if we have a chance to replace the DVD drive with a bluray?
It may not have the power to push a BRD, but first you have to find one that fits. It's a 9.5mm ultra-slim slot-loading drive that appears smaller than the one they were using previously. Small isn't cheap!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It sort of looks like you could get the hard drive out without removing the logic board but if not then I'd say it's worse that the old one in that regard. You're not likely to switch the drive often but it's unnecessary to require disconnecting so many parts to get to it - you almost have to take apart the whole machine. There are 3 cables on it (two of which seem to be thermal sensors) and once those are off, you may be able to lift it up and out.
If it's so tight a fit that you can't do that, there's also no way a 12.5mm drive will go in there. The server model should still take one 12.5mm drive but in the slot where the optical was.
If what I think will eventually happen, happens. IOWs, the ODD being removed, then there would be room to push the logic board and/or PSU into the space occupied by the HDD, which would make room for a Core-i and dGPU, and potentially another fan or larger fan and heatsink.
Over-engineering or not, making this machine for just a couple revisions is pointless. When you consider how long the previous case design lasted it seems even sillier. I can't think of another avenue they'll take with it except to remove the ODD at a time they deem right and then move to Core-i + dGPUs in their smaller systems.
Quote:
When you look at the laptops, you get the top shell which is carved aluminum and the bottom plate is simply screwed on. Once you unscrew that bottom plate, all the components are accessible.
All Apple had to do was put 4 screws on the bottom of the Mini with a fairly flat aluminum plate. Obviously there would be 4 screw holes but it's on the bottom, where nobody sees them. Even if the rubber pad was still there but the 4 screw holes were visible when it was removed and then you just take the entire bottom plate off.
Which is why I think your assessment is dead on. As you are aware, they went to all this trouble to mill a a solid block on aluminium when it wasn't remotely necessary. It's not a notebook being moved around where rigidity and lightness are important factors.
On top of that, they did it in a machine that is using a CPU technology that has a dead end in sight and will require them to move to a dGPU unless they have some special deal in works with Intel and Nvidia or have some inside info about Intel's IGPs that we don't.
Holy crap these new Mac Minis are SOOOOOOO much easier to take apart and change components than the old ones (the basic design they've been using the past several years). I used to be a tech for Apple back in the day, and all my friends that have mechanical problems or want to upgrade parts always come to me to have it done. Even something as simple as upgrading the RAM was a pain in the royal A. As soon as I heard the words "Mac Mini" I would cringe, but this new design makes everything so much simpler.
Still ... I'm a little tweaked by the $100 jump in price ...
Now if Apple would do something to make the iMac easier to take apart, and not just the RAM.
It looks a well engineered product. I'd say represents value for money. It is the cheapest Mac. However, it is not cheap. Apple seems to be moving away from their original goal of offering a cheap entry level Mac targeting people switching from PCs.
Apple's new 2010 Mac mini is wider (7.7 inches square, just like the existing Apple TV) but significantly thinner (just 1.4 inches thick) and easier to take apart than previous models.
So Apple will have to create a whole new motherboard when they move to i3s or i5s and the 330M graphics? It seems foolish of them to build a whole new product from scratch that can only use last-generation processors.
Yes. Apple is obviously not planning to make such a move for a while. There's nothing wrong with sticking with Core 2 on a machine like this.
I think Apple is holding out for AMD's Fusion processors, personally.
I have a 10 year old iBook that can handle e-mail, web-surfing and typing documents without a problem. It can even play games. I'll wager the average computer user does no more with their machines. I imagine a brand new Mini has more than enough power and speed to handle those tasks with ease.
If that was really the case, then no one would ever need to upgrade to anything newer.
I have a Mini from 2007 (1.83 GHz C2D), and it does feel a bit sluggish (maybe it's just Aperture 2), and it could use 4 GB of RAM, but it can't. Back then, you didn't even get a DVD burner and had to settle for an 80 GB HD at $600. But it's been a pretty capable computer, outside of anything graphic-related.
I do like this new Mini, but not at $700 (an iMac is a better value ATM IMO), and especially since I did build a new PC in March - can't afford 2 new computers just to say so.
I have a Mini from 2007 (1.83 GHz C2D), and it does feel a bit sluggish (maybe it's just Aperture 2), and it could use 4 GB of RAM, but it can't. Back then, you didn't even get a DVD burner and had to settle for an 80 GB HD at $600. But it's been a pretty capable computer, outside of anything graphic-related.
My Mini from 2005 (1.42GHz PPC) came with a DVD burner, maybe you purchased the basic model at the time, then again at todays exchange rates my mini cost me US$1300 before tax
Users still aren't going to care. It's still WAY overpriced and lousy performance. And most people don't care how big it is, they'd just rather have a decent affordable mac.
Nice to see the improvements, but with the price increase and still crappy specs, the nice design just makes it suck a teeny bit less.
Users do care about the size, look, hdmi, no power brick, graphics, ... I've used a Mini attached to an HDTV for years. It's my main system. Great system. The new one is even better.
Obviously you are not the type of user this machine is aimed for. To each his own. Can't wait to get one...
I do like this new Mini, but not at $700 (an iMac is a better value ATM IMO), and especially since I did build a new PC in March - can't afford 2 new computers just to say so.
An iMac is not better if you want to use the Mini hooked up to an HDTV or if you want a server. The iMac is a great all in one computer. One of the best desktops. The trend over time might very well be towards things like the iPad, Mini to HDTV, laptop, iPhone. Desktops don't quite have the same appeal anymore to a lot of people.
I wonder what this means for the Apple TV? Given that the Mini increased in price this leaves a lot of room for a very interesting product.
Here's hoping they do just that in the next revision. And of course, the iMacs will surely get i5s soon enough as well. I just wonder what they'll do for graphics, since Intel won't let them pair Nvidia integrated graphics with anything beyond a Core 2 Duo.
Unfortunately, they cannot use an i5 because intel forces their graphics chips on them. Apple doesn't want the added power consumption and cost of discrete graphics in the mini...
and Apple doesn't use desktop grade CPU's...
Notice how all i5 macs have discrete graphics? That intel GPU is in there. Apple doesn't want to use it but they are forced to have it there anyways. Thats why they only offer i5 at higher price points, on larger systems that can accommodate discrete graphics.
So they have no choice but to use higher clocked core 2 chips to close the gap in the entry line. iMacs now start at the clock speed they used to be maxed out with.
Basically, Apple is using faster core 2 chips with each update so they can keep bumping the performance of their computers in small increments without jumping into i5 territory.
with a 2.66 ghz chip, the mini is 83% slower than the 2.4 ghz i5
Not a huge difference unless you were doing some really intense processing, and a whole lot better than using intel's crappy GPUs I would think.
You mean the same way that everyone on this forum was so sure that Apple would never, ever implement HDMI on a computer? Face it, you don't know what you're talking about anymore than the rest of us, so to make a statement that appears as though you do is patently absurd.
I noticed a little while back that someone upgraded the hard drive on the new non-server Mini and confirmed that the motherboard doesn't need to be removed to switch the drive:
iFixit always make guides about dismantling the machines but it's not always necessary to take apart what they suggest in order to do upgrades.
It would have been nice if Apple designed the new Mini in a way that you could unscrew the rubber base and then just get a pull-out tab like the old Macbooks had and just lift the drive up and out but the description in the above link doesn't sound too tricky.
Comments
I'm not a 100% certain it's the case, but it looks like you need to unscrew the logic board from the case and slide the back out a little to access the HDD. It would be nice if they made it removable without taking the logic board out.
I also wonder what the space is for the HDD. For example, Apple using 9.5mm HDDs in their Unibody MBPs but they all will take the 12.5mm HDDs just fine. If the Mac Mini does this it could mean 1TB capacity (or 2TB for the Server version).
It sort of looks like you could get the hard drive out without removing the logic board but if not then I'd say it's worse that the old one in that regard. You're not likely to switch the drive often but it's unnecessary to require disconnecting so many parts to get to it - you almost have to take apart the whole machine. There are 3 cables on it (two of which seem to be thermal sensors) and once those are off, you may be able to lift it up and out.
If it's so tight a fit that you can't do that, there's also no way a 12.5mm drive will go in there. The server model should still take one 12.5mm drive but in the slot where the optical was.
Looking at the engineering (or "over-engineering" as Marvin put it) I don't think it's an excessive for the product. Plus, i have to think Apple knows who's buying them more than we do.
When you look at the laptops, you get the top shell which is carved aluminum and the bottom plate is simply screwed on. Once you unscrew that bottom plate, all the components are accessible.
All Apple had to do was put 4 screws on the bottom of the Mini with a fairly flat aluminum plate. Obviously there would be 4 screw holes but it's on the bottom, where nobody sees them. Even if the rubber pad was still there but the 4 screw holes were visible when it was removed and then you just take the entire bottom plate off.
Now there is no option for the lower end. This seems like the beginning of the end for os x. Apple really doesnt seem too intrested in developing the platform after snowleopard even if it says otherwise.
I can barely grasp the unibody consept in notebooks and mobile devices but I have to say that this is so just cosmetic compared to the old mini. And dont come saying they couldnt have used the old style case (non-unibody) with just some modifications to get it easier and better to open (even if it takes me just 1 minute to open the old mini (yea, I have upgraded tons of em) ). I have hade 10:s of people replace their old pc hardware with minis but the price-decrease just makes it impossible to make the transition after this. It will be just better idea to buy an atom/ion platform with same footprint 350Euros and stick with W7 (even though they have lesser prosessing power). The pricedifference is just not justified anymore (yea not everybody needs the cpu power).
I really think Ive should be held back atleast little on the ground with dedsign thing. Can somebody tell me why the unibody thing on this mini does for the average user. Its not like the case was unstable before? Its just a stupid and VERY costly design gimick in my eyes. They should have made the case easier to open and not more expensive to manufacture (just bad politics).
It just will be my last mini I guess.... and maybe Apple. Atleast Ill be buying less apple hardware in this trend.... Apple should still sell 500Eur hardware for os X! I was quite enthusiastic about this upgrade but the price just is quite rediculous. And DONT bullshit me about not being able to make cheaper machines. Atleast in these times they shouldnt make more expensive upgrades when everybody else just upgrades the hardware to fit mores law to justify the old price. The same money will just buy more cpu power later than at this time. That is just industry facts. Well ION platforms with same footprint just became 100% more attrictive (with the priceincrease).
As Apples success and popularity increases Steve and Johnny start to become more dead weight versus popularity. They have their own agendas and dont seem motivated to increase platform penetration aswell as profit. They dont want to expand on the success. They want to increase the prices to stop the platform of getting more popular and that way increase profit. This is not the only option but its the option that will stagnate the platform (mac)
This means good times for W7 and Android im affraid.
Sorry for my spelling....
May I ask if we have a chance to replace the DVD drive with a bluray?
It may not have the power to push a BRD, but first you have to find one that fits. It's a 9.5mm ultra-slim slot-loading drive that appears smaller than the one they were using previously. Small isn't cheap!
It sort of looks like you could get the hard drive out without removing the logic board but if not then I'd say it's worse that the old one in that regard. You're not likely to switch the drive often but it's unnecessary to require disconnecting so many parts to get to it - you almost have to take apart the whole machine. There are 3 cables on it (two of which seem to be thermal sensors) and once those are off, you may be able to lift it up and out.
If it's so tight a fit that you can't do that, there's also no way a 12.5mm drive will go in there. The server model should still take one 12.5mm drive but in the slot where the optical was.
If what I think will eventually happen, happens. IOWs, the ODD being removed, then there would be room to push the logic board and/or PSU into the space occupied by the HDD, which would make room for a Core-i and dGPU, and potentially another fan or larger fan and heatsink.
Over-engineering or not, making this machine for just a couple revisions is pointless. When you consider how long the previous case design lasted it seems even sillier. I can't think of another avenue they'll take with it except to remove the ODD at a time they deem right and then move to Core-i + dGPUs in their smaller systems.
When you look at the laptops, you get the top shell which is carved aluminum and the bottom plate is simply screwed on. Once you unscrew that bottom plate, all the components are accessible.
All Apple had to do was put 4 screws on the bottom of the Mini with a fairly flat aluminum plate. Obviously there would be 4 screw holes but it's on the bottom, where nobody sees them. Even if the rubber pad was still there but the 4 screw holes were visible when it was removed and then you just take the entire bottom plate off.
Which is why I think your assessment is dead on. As you are aware, they went to all this trouble to mill a a solid block on aluminium when it wasn't remotely necessary. It's not a notebook being moved around where rigidity and lightness are important factors.
On top of that, they did it in a machine that is using a CPU technology that has a dead end in sight and will require them to move to a dGPU unless they have some special deal in works with Intel and Nvidia or have some inside info about Intel's IGPs that we don't.
Apple continues to amaze me that way...
Holy crap these new Mac Minis are SOOOOOOO much easier to take apart and change components than the old ones (the basic design they've been using the past several years). I used to be a tech for Apple back in the day, and all my friends that have mechanical problems or want to upgrade parts always come to me to have it done. Even something as simple as upgrading the RAM was a pain in the royal A. As soon as I heard the words "Mac Mini" I would cringe, but this new design makes everything so much simpler.
Still ... I'm a little tweaked by the $100 jump in price ...
Now if Apple would do something to make the iMac easier to take apart, and not just the RAM.
It looks a well engineered product. I'd say represents value for money. It is the cheapest Mac. However, it is not cheap. Apple seems to be moving away from their original goal of offering a cheap entry level Mac targeting people switching from PCs.
Does this mean that Sculley was right all along?
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py...rice_Fight.txt
Steve may have had no choice back then, but now he is certainly in a position to do something about Mac pricing, assuming it still matters to him.
Does this mean that Sculley was right all along?
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py...rice_Fight.txt
Steve may have had no choice back then, but now he is certainly in a position to do something about Mac pricing, assuming it still matters to him.
Assuming, of course, that the price isn't already as low as they can make it.
Apple's new 2010 Mac mini is wider (7.7 inches square, just like the existing Apple TV) but significantly thinner (just 1.4 inches thick) and easier to take apart than previous models.
But Will It Blend?
So Apple will have to create a whole new motherboard when they move to i3s or i5s and the 330M graphics? It seems foolish of them to build a whole new product from scratch that can only use last-generation processors.
Yes. Apple is obviously not planning to make such a move for a while. There's nothing wrong with sticking with Core 2 on a machine like this.
I think Apple is holding out for AMD's Fusion processors, personally.
I have a 10 year old iBook that can handle e-mail, web-surfing and typing documents without a problem. It can even play games. I'll wager the average computer user does no more with their machines. I imagine a brand new Mini has more than enough power and speed to handle those tasks with ease.
If that was really the case, then no one would ever need to upgrade to anything newer.
I have a Mini from 2007 (1.83 GHz C2D), and it does feel a bit sluggish (maybe it's just Aperture 2), and it could use 4 GB of RAM, but it can't. Back then, you didn't even get a DVD burner and had to settle for an 80 GB HD at $600. But it's been a pretty capable computer, outside of anything graphic-related.
I do like this new Mini, but not at $700 (an iMac is a better value ATM IMO), and especially since I did build a new PC in March - can't afford 2 new computers just to say so.
I have a Mini from 2007 (1.83 GHz C2D), and it does feel a bit sluggish (maybe it's just Aperture 2), and it could use 4 GB of RAM, but it can't. Back then, you didn't even get a DVD burner and had to settle for an 80 GB HD at $600. But it's been a pretty capable computer, outside of anything graphic-related.
My Mini from 2005 (1.42GHz PPC) came with a DVD burner, maybe you purchased the basic model at the time, then again at todays exchange rates my mini cost me US$1300 before tax
Users still aren't going to care. It's still WAY overpriced and lousy performance. And most people don't care how big it is, they'd just rather have a decent affordable mac.
Nice to see the improvements, but with the price increase and still crappy specs, the nice design just makes it suck a teeny bit less.
Users do care about the size, look, hdmi, no power brick, graphics, ... I've used a Mini attached to an HDTV for years. It's my main system. Great system. The new one is even better.
Obviously you are not the type of user this machine is aimed for. To each his own. Can't wait to get one...
philip
[ ]
I do like this new Mini, but not at $700 (an iMac is a better value ATM IMO), and especially since I did build a new PC in March - can't afford 2 new computers just to say so.
An iMac is not better if you want to use the Mini hooked up to an HDTV or if you want a server. The iMac is a great all in one computer. One of the best desktops. The trend over time might very well be towards things like the iPad, Mini to HDTV, laptop, iPhone. Desktops don't quite have the same appeal anymore to a lot of people.
I wonder what this means for the Apple TV? Given that the Mini increased in price this leaves a lot of room for a very interesting product.
philip
Here's hoping they do just that in the next revision. And of course, the iMacs will surely get i5s soon enough as well. I just wonder what they'll do for graphics, since Intel won't let them pair Nvidia integrated graphics with anything beyond a Core 2 Duo.
Unfortunately, they cannot use an i5 because intel forces their graphics chips on them. Apple doesn't want the added power consumption and cost of discrete graphics in the mini...
and Apple doesn't use desktop grade CPU's...
Notice how all i5 macs have discrete graphics? That intel GPU is in there. Apple doesn't want to use it but they are forced to have it there anyways. Thats why they only offer i5 at higher price points, on larger systems that can accommodate discrete graphics.
So they have no choice but to use higher clocked core 2 chips to close the gap in the entry line. iMacs now start at the clock speed they used to be maxed out with.
Basically, Apple is using faster core 2 chips with each update so they can keep bumping the performance of their computers in small increments without jumping into i5 territory.
with a 2.66 ghz chip, the mini is 83% slower than the 2.4 ghz i5
Not a huge difference unless you were doing some really intense processing, and a whole lot better than using intel's crappy GPUs I would think.
not happening.
You mean the same way that everyone on this forum was so sure that Apple would never, ever implement HDMI on a computer? Face it, you don't know what you're talking about anymore than the rest of us, so to make a statement that appears as though you do is patently absurd.
http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27376
iFixit always make guides about dismantling the machines but it's not always necessary to take apart what they suggest in order to do upgrades.
It would have been nice if Apple designed the new Mini in a way that you could unscrew the rubber base and then just get a pull-out tab like the old Macbooks had and just lift the drive up and out but the description in the above link doesn't sound too tricky.