First look: Apple' new unibody Mac mini

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 239
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,111member
    Way too expensive, I thought the previous MacMini was already way expensive.
  • Reply 22 of 239
    bregaladbregalad Posts: 816member
    The server version is a reasonable value, but the consumer mini isn't. I hope this doesn't mean the iMac is going up in price this fall.
  • Reply 23 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    Even if most people bought the more expensive option, having a cheap base version is good for marketing purposes. "From $499" sounds a lot better than "From $699" even if the majority of folks immediately opt for the faster CPU and more memory and actually pay closer to $699.



    And what if this new milling process is part of their long term plan and it's 1) very expensive right now because it's having to work inside of a closed shell, or 2) makes it so they can currently only produce a fraction of the models they could for old style Mac Mini? Both of those are reasons to have a higher price point.



    Profit margins are not some static entity. They are designed with the market demand in mind. Anything else is just bad business, unless it's done during a civil emergency for a required commodity in which the seller is breaking the law*.



    * Please don't argue that the Mac MIni is price gouging because people should be able to have an affordable Mac.
  • Reply 24 of 239
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    Even if most people bought the more expensive option, having a cheap base version is good for marketing purposes. "From $499" sounds a lot better than "From $699" even if the majority of folks immediately opt for the faster CPU and more memory and actually pay closer to $699.



    Also $699 and you have to provide your own keyboard, mouse and monitor. You are probably better off buying a Macbook.



    Macbook it is. It would be cheaper to buy a mid-level iMac as well. The Mac Mini is nice but not that nice.
  • Reply 25 of 239
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    ¿Que? What's the big deal in having a Blu-ray player that can't play Blu-ray movies? I think that is a big deal.

    -or-

    What's the big deal about Apple adding AACS to Mac OS X?



    The second one. I meant it's no big deal for Apple to add AACS.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The argument you make against Apple's desktop also holds true for many with their notebooks. They don't have to make their notebooks so thin. They don't have to use the more expensive ultra-slim or slot-loading ODDs.



    On the contrary, unlike with a desktop, these things do actually bring a relevant benefit. The whole point of a laptop is that it is portable. The thinner you make it, the lower the volume and probably lower the weight; i.e., making it thinner improves the portability of the laptop.



    With the mini, I mean seriously, would anyone, anywhere (apart from Steve or Ive) have complained if this new mini was 2.4" tall instead of the 1.4" it actually is? I'm going to venture - no.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The mDP port supports much higher bandwidth and resolution. They also included an adapter to DVI, which is unusual for them. Note that there are monitors (that aren't HDTV with tuners) that support HDMI and not mDP/DP at the moment.



    Indeed. By "functionality" I meant DVI and audio via a single connector. You don't need the display to support DP or mDP as you can get an mDP to HDMI cable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    declaring it a failure



    That would be premature. I've learnt never to do that with an Apple product, no matter how ridiculously overpriced or lame it is. When was there last failure? iPod HiFi?



    I don't like this Mini mainly due to its price and I think Apple may have pushed their luck but we will see. Let the market decide.
  • Reply 26 of 239
    Now, would it theoretically be possible to make the hard drive in Mac mini into two partition, make a ghost image of the system on the hard drive of a Apple TV, copy that to one of the partitions on the Mac mini hard drive and dual-boot the two systems?



    They both run on an Intel processor. Could it be possible?
  • Reply 27 of 239
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ajmac25 View Post


    As a long time (> 20 years) of Macs, I understand APple products are always a premium, BUT adding $100 to the price is ridiculous. Come on Steve, give us a break!http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...ies/1oyvey.gif



    Ridiculous?



    It's $100 more than the old base model, and $100 less than the old high end model.

    For that you get:

    HDMI

    SD slot

    Smaller form factor

    Unibody case - stronger and better heat transfer

    Twice the RAM capacity

    Dramatically higher GPU power

    Ease of upgrading the RAM yourself. That alone could save you much of the "excess" $100

    No more external power supply

    Significantly reduced energy consumption - for those concerned about our waste of resources.



    if you're more a high end person, upgrade the CPU. Now it's $50 more than the old high end, but has all of the above advantages PLUS a faster CPU



    Now, you may not personally think those things are worth $100, but to label it ridiculous is not reasonable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.



    People who have a monitor and keyboard?

    People who don't have room for the iMac?

    People who want to connect it to their home TV and don't want the iMac cluttering up the living room?



    It's not for everyone, but then, nothing is.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Clearly it's designed for the upsell.



    At this price, It should have a blu-ray drive. In fact, if it did, I would almost certainly buy one. Sadly it looks like we'll never see a Mac with blu-ray



    Oh, great. Complain about how expensive it is - and then ask for blu-ray, too. Do they even make blu-ray drives small enough for this case?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    And remember, the original PowerPC mini was only $499. The switch to Intel added $100 to the base price and now they've tacked on another $100. So a 40% increase in what, 5 years?



    And a dramatic improvement in features and performance, as well. If you don't like the deal, don't buy one. If enough people don't buy one, Apple will lower the price. If people continue to buy them like crazy, then Apple called it right.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    The server version is a reasonable value, but the consumer mini isn't. I hope this doesn't mean the iMac is going up in price this fall.



    Server version is a 'reasonable value'? Check out Windows Server. Unlimited client licenses are $2200 - and you still have to buy the server software and hardware. The server is an incredible deal - particularly since you're getting a product with such stupendous quality and support.
  • Reply 28 of 239
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    Macbook it is. It would be cheaper to buy a mid-level iMac as well. The Mac Mini is nice but not that nice.



    You don't get an HDMI with those other machines. Not saying Mini is a good value, but if it is exactly what you want, the price is not unreasonable.
  • Reply 29 of 239
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You don't get an HDMI with those other machines.



    Sure you do. Apple's Mini DisplayPort now has audio so you just need a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable or Mini DisplayPort to HDMI dongle.
  • Reply 30 of 239
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Sure you do. Apple's Mini Display Port now has audio so you just need a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable or mini Display Port to HDMI dongle.



    Sure I know but I think the reason they put the HDMI there is because people might want to make it into a HT and a MacBook or an iMac doesn't look that clean in the entertainment center. Hence my comment that if it is exactly what you want...
  • Reply 31 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    On the contrary, unlike with a desktop, these things do actually bring a relevant benefit. The whole point of a laptop is that it is portable. The thinner you make it, the lower the volume and probably lower the weight; i.e., making it thinner improves the portability of the laptop.



    It could be argued that Apple makes their machines 'too thin". There are plenty of machines that are only a little thicker overall (sometimes thinner at the front) but are made from plastic and so they are actually lighter and have faster components at a lower price. Part of this "over engineering" that Apple does at their expense seems to be a prime reason they are so successful at what they do
    Exhibit A: iPhone 4. The milled frame so they can make it thinner and more precisely built. The double-stacked silicon which I have not ever seen before in CE.



    You need tremendous economy of scale to even begin to make that a reality. Even if you don't like Apple or their products, or simply hate everything the iPhone stands for you benefit from its existence if you are a smartphone user and likely soon if you are are dumb phone user.
    If you agree with that why can't you agree that the Mac Mini may not be a device you want but it can lead to others innovating in way to create a product you do want in the future. If the market can't bare it, it will auto correct so I see everyone of these statements that it's "over priced" as completely unfounded.
  • Reply 32 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Sure you do. Apple's Mini Display Port now has audio so you just need a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable or mini Display Port to HDMI dongle.



    Oddly, there is still no mDP- or DP-to HDMI adapters or cables that support audio. Not even from Monoprice. It's not like they have to do anything crazy to make an HDMI cable with audio.



    Even more odd is that Apple doesn't offer such an adapter. Note that the Mac Mini comes with an HDMI-to-DVI Adapter which is new, whilst they've offered a mDP-to-DVI adapter since first started using mDP.
  • Reply 33 of 239
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It could be argued that Apple makes their machines 'too thin". There are plenty of machines that are only a little thicker overall (sometimes thinner at the front) but are made from plastic and so they are actually lighter and have faster components at a lower price.



    Sure. It's all about getting the functionality, portability, build-quality/sturdiness mix right. It's extremely challenging for portable products and Apple pretty much always gets it right.



    But, what's the point making a desktop 1.4" tall instead of 2.4" (or whatever?) I can see the attraction of small and silent relative to a tower, but 2.4" is still incredibly small next to a "normal tower". Where's the benefit?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If you agree with that why can't you agree that the Mac Mini may not be a device you want but it can lead to others innovating in way to create a product you do want in the future.



    Because I don't consider screwing over basic functionality to make a desktop computer as thin as possible, innovation?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If the market can't bare it, it will auto correct so I see everyone of these statements that it's "over priced" as completely unfounded.



    Well, yes saying it's over priced is just an opinion at this moment in time. Whether it is objectively over priced inasmuch as it fails in the market place, we'll see.
  • Reply 34 of 239
    cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Server version is a 'reasonable value'? Check out Windows Server. Unlimited client licenses are $2200 - and you still have to buy the server software and hardware. The server is an incredible deal - particularly since you're getting a product with such stupendous quality and support.



    Yes, this is right.



    Apple is basically giving away Snow Leopard Server (a $500 retail value) with the Mac mini server model. If you take the $699 model (2GB RAM), upgrade the CPU and the hard drive, you are at $949. If you wanted to upgrade RAM on your own, you'd end up paying more than a thousand.



    The Mac mini server (4GB RAM) is $999. For $50 more than the upgraded regular Mac mini, you get a second hard drive (which happens to be 7200rpm) in exchange for the optical drive. The server software is basically free.



    I just placed an order for the Mac mini server and I don't even need the server software. I wanted the extra hard drive (yes, I have external drives as well, but I usually keep these shut off).
  • Reply 35 of 239
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Oddly, there is still no mDP- or DP-to HDMI adapters or cables that support audio. Not even from Monoprice. It's not like they have to do anything crazy to make an HDMI cable with audio.



    This one says it supports audio.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Even more odd is that Apple doesn't offer such an adapter. Note that the Mac Mini comes with an HDMI-to-DVI Adapter which is new, whilst they've offered a mDP-to-DVI adapter since first started using mDP.



    Yeah, I don't get it. If it was me, I wouldn't have included an HDMI port at all and offered an mDP to HDMI cable as an option.
  • Reply 36 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.



    Such a shame, it's beautiful but priced by a retard I think, either that or Apple assumes its customers are stupid!



    The Mini isn't for everyone.



    We use 7 of them in my office as workstations, primarily because we don't use Apple's monitors ( too expensive) and they are great, fast, low energy consuming devices that support multiple monitors. The tiny form factor means we can put the cube wherever and hot have to worry about overheating issues.



    If we need a Blu-Ray drive somewhere, we just plug it in to whatever machine needs it. These baby Macs really are more versatile than an iMac, with almost as much power. I just love em.
  • Reply 37 of 239
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brent_in_SD View Post


    If we need a Blu-Ray drive somewhere, we just plug it in to whatever machine needs it.



    So are you running Windows? I wasn't aware that OS X supported BD.
  • Reply 38 of 239
    carmissimocarmissimo Posts: 837member
    It boggles the mind that many think the Mac Mini is way too expensive yet the iMac, which is a very poor deal looked at over the long haul, not so much. As I've noted before, it's 12-year monitor technology mated to six-year computer technology. To me that doesn't add up. Either one maintains the computer, including costly software updates and periodic hard-drive replacements, or throws away a perfectly good monitor roughly half way through that monitor's life cycle.



    Makes a lot more sense to buy a separate monitor that can soldier on mated to a succession of computers, as happened with my previous monitor. Since buying my first Mac back in the 1990s, I've owned two monitors, a 17" Sony CRT and now a 24" Cinema Display (briefly used a Sony LCD but I'm using that as my main TV so it really doesn't count). In that time I've owned a 7200, a G4 Tower, and am now on my third Mini, trading in my last one for nearly half of what I bought it for new. Being as the Cinema Display is only a few months old, I expect that 10 years from now I might still be using that same display though the Mini I'm typing this on will be long gone.



    Let's not forget that when you buy a Mac, you're not just buying a computer. The iLife software package alone retails for $99 here in Canada. The OS is another $35, which is a huge bargain compared to Windows 7. So right off the bat you can take $134 off the base price of the Mini, which lists in base form for $749 here in Canada. That lowers the price to $615 which seems to me to be not at all outrageous for a nicely engineered piece of electronic gear. I paid more for my first CD burner back in the day. You could run the thing for a couple of years and get roughly have that back in trade. Try doing that with a piece of cheap PC junk.



    Turn over the Mini every couple of years and the cost, which would be around $500 after trade (taxes included), would include not having to worry about replacing a worn out hard drive as well as maintaining current iLife and OS software. That last item alone is worth roughly half the $500 you're paying. If someone had told me a few years ago that there would come a time when the annual cost of never having a computer much older than two years old would run something like $125, I'd have thought they were completely mad. That would be the equivalent of buying a $1,250 computer once a decade. I paid six times that amount in Cdn. currency for my G4 DP 500 alone, factoring in a memory and GPU upgrade along the way.



    I don't doubt that there are products that could easily outspec the Mini at that price point but specs are becoming increasingly insignificant. The Mini as it sits is plenty fast, in absolute terms a very capable performer. That will continue to improve with each revision. Within the next three or four years I imagine a quad-core Mini will be a given and 4GB of RAM definitely the basest of starting points. GPU horsepower, already quite good, will be that much better.



    And don't forget that the beauty of using more established technology is that it will be reliable, well-tested technology. That's one reason why Minis are quite reliable.



    Thank God the rumours of the Mini's demise were greatly exaggerated. It's a good package and contrary to what many think, offers decent bang for the buck.
  • Reply 39 of 239
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brent_in_SD View Post


    The Mini isn't for everyone.



    We use 7 of them in my office as workstations, primarily because we don't use Apple's monitors ( too expensive) and they are great, fast, low energy consuming devices that support multiple monitors. The tiny form factor means we can put the cube wherever and hot have to worry about overheating issues.



    If we need a Blu-Ray drive somewhere, we just plug it in to whatever machine needs it. These baby Macs really are more versatile than an iMac, with almost as much power. I just love em.



    At the previous price point it might have been a good deal, that it's versatile is a given, it's an amazing little machine. Having said that it is over priced, highly over priced!
  • Reply 40 of 239
    champchamp Posts: 39member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post


    It boggles the mind that many think the Mac Mini is way too expensive yet the iMac, which is a very poor deal looked at over the long haul, not so much. As I've noted before, it's 12-year monitor technology mated to six-year computer technology. To me that doesn't add up. Either one maintains the computer, including costly software updates and periodic hard-drive replacements, or throws away a perfectly good monitor roughly half way through that monitor's life cycle.



    Makes a lot more sense to buy a separate monitor that can soldier on mated to a succession of computers, as happened with my previous monitor. Since buying my first Mac back in the 1990s, I've owned two monitors, a 17" Sony CRT and now a 24" Cinema Display (briefly used a Sony LCD but I'm using that as my main TV so it really doesn't count). In that time I've owned a 7200, a G4 Tower, and am now on my third Mini, trading in my last one for nearly half of what I bought it for new. Being as the Cinema Display is only a few months old, I expect that 10 years from now I might still be using that same display though the Mini I'm typing this on will be long gone.



    Let's not forget that when you buy a Mac, you're not just buying a computer. The iLife software package alone retails for $99 here in Canada. The OS is another $35, which is a huge bargain compared to Windows 7. So right off the bat you can take $134 off the base price of the Mini, which lists in base form for $749 here in Canada. That lowers the price to $615 which seems to me to be not at all outrageous for a nicely engineered piece of electronic gear. I paid more for my first CD burner back in the day. You could run the thing for a couple of years and get roughly have that back in trade. Try doing that with a piece of cheap PC junk.



    Turn over the Mini every couple of years and the cost, which would be around $500 after trade (taxes included), would include not having to worry about replacing a worn out hard drive as well as maintaining current iLife and OS software. That last item alone is worth roughly half the $500 you're paying. If someone had told me a few years ago that there would come a time when the annual cost of never having a computer much older than two years old would run something like $125, I'd have thought they were completely mad. That would be the equivalent of buying a $1,250 computer once a decade. I paid six times that amount in Cdn. currency for my G4 DP 500 alone, factoring in a memory and GPU upgrade along the way.



    I don't doubt that there are products that could easily outspec the Mini at that price point but specs are becoming increasingly insignificant. The Mini as it sits is plenty fast, in absolute terms a very capable performer. That will continue to improve with each revision. Within the next three or four years I imagine a quad-core Mini will be a given and 4GB of RAM definitely the basest of starting points. GPU horsepower, already quite good, will be that much better.



    And don't forget that the beauty of using more established technology is that it will be reliable, well-tested technology. That's one reason why Minis are quite reliable.



    Thank God the rumours of the Mini's demise were greatly exaggerated. It's a good package and contrary to what many think, offers decent bang for the buck.



    +1 nice post
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