There is absolutely no justification for this on Apple part. The info could be plugged into the spec sheet just as easy as all the other data the "average customer" doesn't understand.
In the end Apples attempts to hide this information can only be seen as misleading and frankly sleazy. The amount of RAM in a device is just as important a spec as the bands the 3G radio uses or the supported WiFI standards. To constantly have this info left out can only indicate that it is a planned effort on Apples part to keep people in the dark.
This is also interesting and questionable on Apples part. I would suspect though that they may very well be dynamically adjusting clock frequency based upon what is happening at the moment on the device. Still in shouldn't be that difficult to come clean on this spec either.
I fully understand that the so called "average customer" might not need nor understand the info, however I really don't give a damn about the average customer. More so the info we want could be easily delivered via a spec sheet the average customer doesn't read anyways. The problem isn't Apples marketing to the so called average customer, but rather the grouping of every customer into the same category of stupid bitch customer.
Maybe I'm going a little overboard here, but at work when I grab a PDF from a potential suppliers support sight it better have all the info I need to implement that device effectively. I expect the same thing when buying for personal use. I don't expect a line of crap from the sales engineer either. A product either does or doesn't do what I want, there really isn't any in between and the last thing one wants to hear is a shuck and jive that glosses over the issues faced. In the end Apple comes off as purposefully jerking the customer around. That is really distressing because I really like many of Apples products.
Dave
It's unethical to not post every single spec for a product? Perhaps you should lobby for a law to be made that requires every single spec to be detailed, but I don't think you'd get very far.
How fast is the NAND in the iPhone? It's a lot faster than the Class 2 (2Mbps) NAND in the MicroSD chips found in other phones. Apple doesn't advertise that and that does show them in a positive view. This is CE, it doesn't matter to all but a few people. If you want to know then wait for someone to figure it out or figure it out yourself.
As for clockspeed, it's not questionable. They've been underclocking the iPhone since day one. It's a very simple way to save power. If you want to overclock then jailbreak it and do with it what you wish.
And no, other vendors don't supply all the info. I can go to Apple's site and know exactly how long I can play music, videos, phone calls over 3G, phone calls over 2G, web on 3G and web on WiFi. With others you get a portion of those. Apple lists the specs that are important to their customer base.
Your example of a car isn't viable because the horsepower, number of cylinders and liter size are important to buyers even if they don't known what they specs mean. They don't list a great deal of the items and dealer knows very little more than what is stated.
PS: We knew the RAM capacity before it was released BECAUSE it was asked at WWDC and answered by Apple staff. That tells me it's a not a huge secret, but simply not part of their marketing.
As stated, no. An file x-size is still x-size, the only that changes is the speed in which it's sent. However, this increased data rate will result in one saving time, which is likely to result in more data usage. I'd say this is a good problem to have.
But you miss my point. Just as the speeds have increased to the point where you can really enjoy using your iPhone or iPad for data intensive multimedia, it seems they have cut us off at the knees. All those people with the old 5GB contracts better hold on to them with dear life. 2GB is really not a lot no matter how you spin it. I understand the concept of fair data usage and paying for what you use, but it seems like a $15 for the first GB and then $10 for every GB after that seems a lot more fair. $15 for 200MB seems awfully expensive and if you use 201MB isn't it like another $15? Why not just automatically upgrade them to the 2GB plan?
I easily go over 2GB a month, mostly due to GPS with Google Maps, Pandora, and a lot of Sprint TV and other videos. AT&T might have been correct that 97% of iPhone users used less than that, but with higher speeds available, multitasking enabling Pandora, Netflix, and many other data intensive apps I think that will change. I would hate to have to monitor my data usage every month, but that's just me.
But you miss my point. Just as the speeds have increased to the point where you can really enjoy using your iPhone or iPad for data intensive multimedia, it seems they have cut us off at the knees. All those people with the old 5GB contracts better hold on to them with dear life. 2GB is really not a lot no matter how you spin it. I understand the concept of fair data usage and paying for what you use, but it seems like a $15 for the first GB and then $10 for every GB after that seems a lot more fair. $15 for 200MB seems awfully expensive and if you use 201MB isn't it like another $15? Why not just automatically upgrade them to the 2GB plan?
I easily go over 2GB a month, mostly due to GPS with Google Maps, Pandora, and a lot of Sprint TV and other videos. AT&T might have been correct that 97% of iPhone users used less than that, but with higher speeds available, multitasking enabling Pandora, Netflix, and many other data intensive apps I think that will change. I would hate to have to monitor my data usage every month, but that's just me.
1) I didn't miss the point as I clearly addressed it.
2) Are you really using more data than before if you are using maps and streaming audio? Unless the map image data is 4x as dense and audio streams are a higher bitrate these will not be affected by a higher downstream bandwidth, and not at all by a higher upstream bandwidth.
3) In the US, the caps were unlimited and still are if you choose to keep it. I kept mine as unlimited even though I use about 300MB on average without tethering. I did so in hopes that a solution to pay for tethering arises.
4) If you use more than 2GB a month then you'll want to stick with the Unlimited plan and not miss a payment.
5) it's AT&T's right to change the plans and if they are being hurt by an unknown taxation on their network should they not have a right to charge for it just as we have a right now to choose their network? It's a better plan than all the other US carriers for my needs and looks to save most people money.
6) It's $25 for 2GB. That equals $15 for the 1GB and $10 for each additional GB with a minimum plan of 2GB if you go that route. If they offered it the way you stated I bet there would be plenty who would say that $15 is too much to start and many other things.
7) The cost is more than just the data, it's the design and support costs. Plus, it's geared to push for the upsell. That is how business works. Since 200MB isn't close to supporting either of our needs it's not even an option for us.
8) If it were me, I'd make SMS free so long as you had data and voice. I'd also to auto-tiered plans.
For example, you hear those stories of a family with no SMS plan getting a multi-thousand dollar bill because their kid did thousands of text messages in a month. I'd have it so it was on a per-unit basis until your charges matched the next highest plan then it would be upgrades to that plan. If your charges crossed the next threshold it would be upped again until you reached the unlimited plan.
It would then stay there for each additional billing cycle unless you called to request it dropped within the that billing cycle. This would surely lose some money with gouging customers but I think it would be more than made by customers knowing that the most they could be charged in a month from all services was at the unlimited rate.
But that's just me, I don't expect anyone else to agree and don't it against any carrier for making money any way that is legal.
I just randomly decided to test the 3G speeds with my iPhone 4. With my 3GS I was maxing out at 400 kbps down and 60 kbps up, then about 2 weeks ago I started maxing out at 1300 kbps down and 90 kbps up, but check out the screen shot to see what I just got with my iPhone 4. Freakin ridiculous! Screw Sprint's "4G" service and their $10 extra fee to use it even if it's years away from coming to your area.. For what it's worth I also noticed my WiFi is faster on the iPhone 4 as well, it's almost able to take full advantage of my 10Mbps service. I'm sure people are getting even faster speeds, but this is amazing for a small southern Utah town!
For what it's worth I also noticed my WiFi is faster on the iPhone 4 as well, it's almost able to take full advantage of my 10Mbps service.
Specifically, they included an 802.11b/g/n @2.4GHz chip. Even if you are using 802.11g you are likely to see faster LAN speeds simply by virtue of a faster processor and potentially more RAM.
In fact I'd think that would open Apple to all sorts of legal issues. That is if they silently updated the RAM installed on an existing product and did not in any other manner update the part number. Think about it, a person could walk into a store and buy an iPad and have a chance of getting one with 256MB of RAM or 512MB of RAM. If you are paying the same price for both devices then you could very well be getting ripped off.
Don't buy any TVs then. There's no telling what kind of panel you get in most TVs and they can range from TN to IPS. I don't see any issue with a silent upgrade...if they bumped the iPad to 512 I'd order one and play iPad lottery until I got one...
Specifically, they included an 802.11b/g/n @2.4GHz chip. Even if you are using 802.11g you are likely to see faster LAN speeds simply by virtue of a faster processor and potentially more RAM.
I use Apple's AirPort Extreme router with dual N/G networks running at once. I'd hope the iPhone is taking advantage of the N connection.
FWIW, I'm in las Vegas and have done speediest.net runs on my new iPhone 4 and got 4500+ Kbps down and 1500 up on one test. The average seems to be about 1500-1700 down and 1500 up. AT&T announced they switched all their towers over to 7.2 a while ago (whenever tmobile announced they did). The backhauls still haven't been completely upgraded though.
I plan to get the iPhone and keep it maybe 2 years or so. In 2 years the networks will look a lot different than toady, so i'm actually thinking about how/what the networks will deliver tomorrow rather than today. And while Apple sells the iPhone around the globe, there are lots of operators that already deliver more than 7.2 Mbps, yes there is actually something outside the US
I just ran a speed test with my iPhone 4 this morning. I'm in Charlotte and have clocked speeds ranging from 4.2 to 5.5 mbps!!! That's fast for a 3G phone! Plus my upload speeds are in the 1.5-2.0 range!
Comments
There is absolutely no justification for this on Apple part. The info could be plugged into the spec sheet just as easy as all the other data the "average customer" doesn't understand.
In the end Apples attempts to hide this information can only be seen as misleading and frankly sleazy. The amount of RAM in a device is just as important a spec as the bands the 3G radio uses or the supported WiFI standards. To constantly have this info left out can only indicate that it is a planned effort on Apples part to keep people in the dark.
This is also interesting and questionable on Apples part. I would suspect though that they may very well be dynamically adjusting clock frequency based upon what is happening at the moment on the device. Still in shouldn't be that difficult to come clean on this spec either.
I fully understand that the so called "average customer" might not need nor understand the info, however I really don't give a damn about the average customer. More so the info we want could be easily delivered via a spec sheet the average customer doesn't read anyways. The problem isn't Apples marketing to the so called average customer, but rather the grouping of every customer into the same category of stupid bitch customer.
Maybe I'm going a little overboard here, but at work when I grab a PDF from a potential suppliers support sight it better have all the info I need to implement that device effectively. I expect the same thing when buying for personal use. I don't expect a line of crap from the sales engineer either. A product either does or doesn't do what I want, there really isn't any in between and the last thing one wants to hear is a shuck and jive that glosses over the issues faced. In the end Apple comes off as purposefully jerking the customer around. That is really distressing because I really like many of Apples products.
Dave
It's unethical to not post every single spec for a product? Perhaps you should lobby for a law to be made that requires every single spec to be detailed, but I don't think you'd get very far.
How fast is the NAND in the iPhone? It's a lot faster than the Class 2 (2Mbps) NAND in the MicroSD chips found in other phones. Apple doesn't advertise that and that does show them in a positive view. This is CE, it doesn't matter to all but a few people. If you want to know then wait for someone to figure it out or figure it out yourself.
As for clockspeed, it's not questionable. They've been underclocking the iPhone since day one. It's a very simple way to save power. If you want to overclock then jailbreak it and do with it what you wish.
And no, other vendors don't supply all the info. I can go to Apple's site and know exactly how long I can play music, videos, phone calls over 3G, phone calls over 2G, web on 3G and web on WiFi. With others you get a portion of those. Apple lists the specs that are important to their customer base.
Your example of a car isn't viable because the horsepower, number of cylinders and liter size are important to buyers even if they don't known what they specs mean. They don't list a great deal of the items and dealer knows very little more than what is stated.
PS: We knew the RAM capacity before it was released BECAUSE it was asked at WWDC and answered by Apple staff. That tells me it's a not a huge secret, but simply not part of their marketing.
As stated, no. An file x-size is still x-size, the only that changes is the speed in which it's sent. However, this increased data rate will result in one saving time, which is likely to result in more data usage. I'd say this is a good problem to have.
But you miss my point. Just as the speeds have increased to the point where you can really enjoy using your iPhone or iPad for data intensive multimedia, it seems they have cut us off at the knees. All those people with the old 5GB contracts better hold on to them with dear life. 2GB is really not a lot no matter how you spin it. I understand the concept of fair data usage and paying for what you use, but it seems like a $15 for the first GB and then $10 for every GB after that seems a lot more fair. $15 for 200MB seems awfully expensive and if you use 201MB isn't it like another $15? Why not just automatically upgrade them to the 2GB plan?
I easily go over 2GB a month, mostly due to GPS with Google Maps, Pandora, and a lot of Sprint TV and other videos. AT&T might have been correct that 97% of iPhone users used less than that, but with higher speeds available, multitasking enabling Pandora, Netflix, and many other data intensive apps I think that will change. I would hate to have to monitor my data usage every month, but that's just me.
But you miss my point. Just as the speeds have increased to the point where you can really enjoy using your iPhone or iPad for data intensive multimedia, it seems they have cut us off at the knees. All those people with the old 5GB contracts better hold on to them with dear life. 2GB is really not a lot no matter how you spin it. I understand the concept of fair data usage and paying for what you use, but it seems like a $15 for the first GB and then $10 for every GB after that seems a lot more fair. $15 for 200MB seems awfully expensive and if you use 201MB isn't it like another $15? Why not just automatically upgrade them to the 2GB plan?
I easily go over 2GB a month, mostly due to GPS with Google Maps, Pandora, and a lot of Sprint TV and other videos. AT&T might have been correct that 97% of iPhone users used less than that, but with higher speeds available, multitasking enabling Pandora, Netflix, and many other data intensive apps I think that will change. I would hate to have to monitor my data usage every month, but that's just me.
1) I didn't miss the point as I clearly addressed it.
2) Are you really using more data than before if you are using maps and streaming audio? Unless the map image data is 4x as dense and audio streams are a higher bitrate these will not be affected by a higher downstream bandwidth, and not at all by a higher upstream bandwidth.
3) In the US, the caps were unlimited and still are if you choose to keep it. I kept mine as unlimited even though I use about 300MB on average without tethering. I did so in hopes that a solution to pay for tethering arises.
4) If you use more than 2GB a month then you'll want to stick with the Unlimited plan and not miss a payment.
5) it's AT&T's right to change the plans and if they are being hurt by an unknown taxation on their network should they not have a right to charge for it just as we have a right now to choose their network? It's a better plan than all the other US carriers for my needs and looks to save most people money.
6) It's $25 for 2GB. That equals $15 for the 1GB and $10 for each additional GB with a minimum plan of 2GB if you go that route. If they offered it the way you stated I bet there would be plenty who would say that $15 is too much to start and many other things.
7) The cost is more than just the data, it's the design and support costs. Plus, it's geared to push for the upsell. That is how business works. Since 200MB isn't close to supporting either of our needs it's not even an option for us.
8) If it were me, I'd make SMS free so long as you had data and voice. I'd also to auto-tiered plans.But that's just me, I don't expect anyone else to agree and don't it against any carrier for making money any way that is legal.
For what it's worth I also noticed my WiFi is faster on the iPhone 4 as well, it's almost able to take full advantage of my 10Mbps service.
Specifically, they included an 802.11b/g/n @2.4GHz chip. Even if you are using 802.11g you are likely to see faster LAN speeds simply by virtue of a faster processor and potentially more RAM.
In fact I'd think that would open Apple to all sorts of legal issues. That is if they silently updated the RAM installed on an existing product and did not in any other manner update the part number. Think about it, a person could walk into a store and buy an iPad and have a chance of getting one with 256MB of RAM or 512MB of RAM. If you are paying the same price for both devices then you could very well be getting ripped off.
Don't buy any TVs then. There's no telling what kind of panel you get in most TVs and they can range from TN to IPS. I don't see any issue with a silent upgrade...if they bumped the iPad to 512 I'd order one and play iPad lottery until I got one...
Specifically, they included an 802.11b/g/n @2.4GHz chip. Even if you are using 802.11g you are likely to see faster LAN speeds simply by virtue of a faster processor and potentially more RAM.
I use Apple's AirPort Extreme router with dual N/G networks running at once. I'd hope the iPhone is taking advantage of the N connection.
I use Apple's AirPort Extreme router with dual N/G networks running at once. I'd hope the iPhone is taking advantage of the N connection.
You'll have to check your router to be sure, but a speed test would also likely clue you in.
Edit: image
ATT and Comcast / Airport Extreme wifi
This last one is from an updated 3G to ios4
note the last 2 3G tests had full bars the others were at like 1-2.5 bars
Yeah, and I was hoping for 100 Mbps.....
Why not 1 Gbps, or 10 Gbps??
I plan to get the iPhone and keep it maybe 2 years or so. In 2 years the networks will look a lot different than toady, so i'm actually thinking about how/what the networks will deliver tomorrow rather than today. And while Apple sells the iPhone around the globe, there are lots of operators that already deliver more than 7.2 Mbps, yes there is actually something outside the US