Religious Thread: BEWARE! ;) (Discussion on end times)
Wow, and yet you still came in and looked around. Now that you are here at least let me know what your opinion of Judeo-Christion, end times, armegeddon, end of thew world type prophecy is. Be nice, if you think it is balogna don't slap me with it, just say why and check back later, I promise to respond when I get time.
My major thrust for this thread is to gather information and just talk things out with people. If this thread soon dissapears I will know that no one cared. Simple enough.
Post links to sites that talk about end time prophecy and the like. Share your impressions/feelings. Discuss it. Have fun! I am looking for facts and theories here. This could be an interesting thread. Unlike my other thread where I wanted to know how you thought the world would actually end (or the universe for you optimists out there
) this time I want to know if you think that you know what the events are that lead up to the end. Think you know the order? Basic time frames? Read a good book on it? Post it all here, and maybe we can find out if we agree on anything, or if my interpretation of waht is fact is indeed stranger than fiction.
My major thrust for this thread is to gather information and just talk things out with people. If this thread soon dissapears I will know that no one cared. Simple enough.
Post links to sites that talk about end time prophecy and the like. Share your impressions/feelings. Discuss it. Have fun! I am looking for facts and theories here. This could be an interesting thread. Unlike my other thread where I wanted to know how you thought the world would actually end (or the universe for you optimists out there
) this time I want to know if you think that you know what the events are that lead up to the end. Think you know the order? Basic time frames? Read a good book on it? Post it all here, and maybe we can find out if we agree on anything, or if my interpretation of waht is fact is indeed stranger than fiction.
Comments
The universe will continue to expand, protons will decay, leaving a cold empty universe.
Of course, if I remember correctly, inflation suggests our universe is just one of many - phase transitions - and who knows, there may be collisions, leading to new universes.
There is room here for all speculation, religious, scientific, or otherwise. especially since none of us will likely be completely right one way or another. Lets keep the speculation going. More details is what I am after though. A supposed timeline would be good.
Still working on mine, not ready yet for a good post.
In all likelyhood, i do not see another world war ending life on the planet. I don't think it would get to the stage where there would be MAD. It is pretty obvious though that events in the middle east could trigger some widespread war that may kill a good % of the world popuulation, but nothing to make us extinct. In any case, Is this thread about my end / the human end, or the worlds end?
I guess in Noah's scenario that the world ends on Judgement day, Q. Do you think that is the end of the physical universe, as God makes a new place for his chosen to live in?
In all likely hood, the end of the human race, I think is most likely to come from a biological disaster, I don't mean Saddam dropping anthrax on us all, but quite likely a genetic mutation of some natural bug that turns real nasty. But I don't think this could wipe out everyone, although the civilization may go back a thousand years.
Possibly an asteroid collision? could happen at any time, I guess we are overdue for one, but I expect it again would just set back life a few hundred years.
As for the end of the universe, well I'd hunch that the universe is a closed system. I cant get my head around the open model, because it poses to many unanswerable questions, like, if the universe was one time only, what existed before and what will exist after, how do you actually define after anyway, surely even if everything decays to radiation, ok, but thats still part of the one time event, so where would the radiation go? So you'd sy the end of the onetime universe is when all the radiation has gone? I like the closed model, because it is simple to visualize expansion/contraction regeneration continuous cycle thing, But that does not mean it is correct.
I think it may also be possible, that we have been put here by a more advanced species (ok stop laughing), but think, if we had the capability to reach uninhabited life sustaining planets, would we have done it. Im pretty sure we would, even if after hundreds of years of politically correct debates, some oil co decided it was going to do it anyway, deny it and then pay the govn. to keep quiet.
As for biological disaster, well I guess it would again be anytime really, but in all likelyness, we would get a few months of all the nastys I listed above, before everyone keeled over.
Isn't Jesus sposed to reapear in either 2001 of 2006? Is that on todays calender, or one of the ancient ones that we have adjusted,
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you Noah, last time we were discussing religion. At Easter, I switched the TV on halfway through a show, It was a news program, with all the regular guys, studios etc that we have in the UK. It was quite late, and I was half asleep, anyway, the reader starts talking about Jesus being reportedly seen walking along the bank of whatever that river is in palestine, then they showed footage, of literally hundreds of witnesses of 'middle eastern' origin disciples who had witnessed the events, and some other accounts of alters in churches sspontaneuous combusting etc. All the reports are genuinely in the standard style of the news channel, and set in 2002. Remember, I am really dozy at the time this was on . WOW, did I crap my pants for a few minutes, until reality finally set in of what this spoof was!!!!
do you have any theory on where GOD originated from? If Im understanding you correctly, you will say that god created the world/universe, and he dicided when it ends,
do you think God has to answer to anybody, like if there is a heirarchy of gods, perhaps he is just a lower down one? Perhaps there is more than 1 universe, and each of the gods gets to create one, and look after its contents and inhabitants.
No seriously, plenty of religions have had the same type of prophecies, but since they are not around any more I guess we can consider ourself safe from these predicitons.
The world/earth still will be around when the judeo-christian belifes are nothing but distant history too...
Have you read Douglas Adams? he wrote some great stuff about the end of the universe. Just comedy, but still worth the read.
[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: Mac Freak ]</p>
I am a humanist, thats it...
I dont believe the world will end (If it ever does) by any other means than the direct stupidity of man...
mini-rant...
this is what switched me to a humanist...
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I believe god exists...
I think god exist...
The same thing right? both are basically uncertainty...
I belief, faith, I think...
All these religous "believers" seem to "know" everything... And get really
Even thou their "fiath" is based solely in uncertainty/"I belief" mentality...
Until I hear any evidence on god... the whole thing is too be held questionable...
This does not mean I am a cold hearted bast@rd... I am a very nice guy, I just believe that theories should remain theories... and be regarded as such...
and a quote:
"Even of what little bit you think you do know, You dont know the half of it..." - The Arrival
Just being a human means you can never know everything... surety is an illusion...
"question everything, rule nothing out..." - Unknown
---
[Edited: Removed this portion... before it might have gotten me into trouble...]
---
The day I became a humanist...
I went to church once when I was 20 before I had to leave for a long time... And I am a very respectfull person and give people the "benifit of the doubt"... But I could hardly keep from cracking up "out loud"... I couldnt belive people actually let this garbage thru their "reason" filters...
I large group of people sang some "whacked out" almost un-intelligible 2000BC song... not that well, I might add... SO many thee's and thou's its hard to understand a word that was uttered...
ANd then this idiot preacher started droning on-and-on about the same thing for an hour...(I am talking proffesional circular thought here people) then I guess it was "break time" and everyone got up and went over to the snack counter... after this everybody was paired up into "prayer circles"...
This was heart breaking... And at the same time, I almost had a heart attack luaghing inside...
My stupidity alarm was going off "left and right"...
these guys were pouring their hearts out in front on me... this was somewhat scary and unbelievably korny... it was like a football huddle... then it was just over and the open the door to let the people(sheep) out...
And that was the day I became a humanist...
If what I saw there was indicative of the majority of what passes for the norm... we are soo screwed... as a species...
end mini-rant
I am sorry if I have led off track here i just needed to get some stuff of my chest...
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© FERRO 2001-2002
[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: FERRO ]</p>
I'm also very scientific. I'm not going to guess how Earth will end, but by the time a force potentially capable of destroying it comes along, technology will have advanced to the point that elimination of this force should be a reasonable solution. Beyond that I'm not going to predict how the universe is going to end. I'm willing to bet that it will re-collapse, but that we just have no real gauge on the masses involved, so current approximations have no base. (The great thing is that i can't LOSE this bet)
I suppose the bottom line is that I DO believe that there is a controlling force and creator of the universe, and I do believe in an afterlife of sorts. I also believe that there's some sort of psychic connection to something out there. I've had enough prophetic dreams to convince me that there's more than coincidence.
But as far as the apocalyse goes, I don't think the state of our ancestors will be as such that we can gauge the experience they will face. The solar system alone is scheduled to last another couple billion years. In a couple billion years microbes evolved to thinking, advanced beings. Another couple billion years could yield an ancestor that defies our current imaginations.
On a related note, we tend to compare armageddon, apocalyse, judgement day, etc, to devices of our current imaginations. Perhaps the whole process will be a peaceful process, but one that our current minds just can't grasp.
Wow, you really don't get it. This is a hugely general statement, and not very accurate. Many of the people you are referencing have accepted Christ on faith, not scientific fact.....that is the whole idea. Once one is willing to accept Him as the Savior, that is what makes one "saved". FAITH is the whole idea. Only man's arrogance would demand proof. In any case, I know that in my life I have all the proof I need. And so we are clear, I am not what I consider to be "religous". I am a person of faith however. There is a difference.
The rest of your post, from the "whacked out" 2000 B.C song as you call it, to the "idiot preacher", to the "stupidity alarm" for the prayer circles, just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. And I mean that in the truest sense of the word, not the just the derogatory sense. The quality of performance of the song has nothing to do with the quality of the song itself, and I really doubt it was composed in 2000 B.C, since I assume you were at CHRISTIAN church. Perhaps the preacher wasn't good.......but I wasn't there so I'll let that alone.
I am not a big fan of public worship (sometimes) either, but my feeling is that your experience made you uncomfortable and it was something you were not familiar with. You therefore called it "stupid". Your entire post shows how superior you feel to these people. Perhaps you should try some different experiences before passing judgement on "all these believers".
<strong>
Wow, you really don't get it. This is a hugely general statement, and not very accurate. Many of the people you are referencing have accepted Christ on faith, not scientific fact.....that is the whole idea. Once one is willing to accept Him as the Savior, that is what makes one "saved". FAITH is the whole idea. Only man's arrogance would demand proof. In any case, I know that in my life I have all the proof I need. And so we are clear, I am not what I consider to be "religous". I am a person of faith however. There is a difference.
The rest of your post, from the "whacked out" 2000 B.C song as you call it, to the "idiot preacher", to the "stupidity alarm" for the prayer circles, just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. And I mean that in the truest sense of the word, not the just the derogatory sense. The quality of performance of the song has nothing to do with the quality of the song itself, and I really doubt it was composed in 2000 B.C, since I assume you were at CHRISTIAN church. Perhaps the preacher wasn't good.......but I wasn't there so I'll let that alone.
I am not a big fan of public worship (sometimes) either, but my feeling is that your experience made you uncomfortable and it was something you were not familiar with. You therefore called it "stupid". Your entire post shows how superior you feel to these people. Perhaps you should try some different experiences before passing judgement on "all these believers".</strong><hr></blockquote>
My decision to regard there activity as "Stupid" is at my sole discretion... the experience did not make me "uncomfortable"... It made me laugh my arse off all the way home, Accepting "Christ on faith" is one thing, procliaming that it is truth is a paradoxial statement... I really saw no real purpose to that gathering... They came, they sang, they went home... they accomplished nothing... Their gatherings only serve to perpetuate their inclusive belief structure thru mutual acceptance of "I believe this, you belive this... we believe this... so its must be true type of thinking...". Wether I observe this type of mentality thru personal experience or thru a medium such as tv, there is no external basis for there intricate and often contradictory thought proccesses... I give you the fact that there is an exorbitant amount of internal logic involved in these circular reasonings... but the fact remains that even if an individual claims to take something on faith... that alone does not make him/her right, it does not negate anothers view/faith or does its form its own base from which to include all other various implications or inclusions of knowledge or beliefs based solely on faith... this is why people fight soo intensly, becuase they believe "faith is the substance of things not seen"... Based on uncertainty, it is the substance of things hoped for...
People who use faith as the measure of truth and what they believe to be true are indeed only fooling themselves, this is by far the main guide by which the average person decides truth from lie, this gut feeling cannot be trusted becuase it is primarilly induced by emotions which can be very easilly fooled and co-opted to serve to facilitate the large occult organisation that feed of this method of trusting the gut for finacial and political gain... and alternatively is a mild from of mass delusion... the perpetuation of unproven thought structures held up by tradition and complacency...
I hold a much more rigid indicator of truth to what I will accept as truth... My beliefs are to be tested and until verified are just that... "beliefs", nothing more... they are to be regarded as such... they are not truth, they are beliefs...
If what you believe was the true, you wouldnt need to believe.
You would "know", you wouldnt need faith...
but you dont "know"...
So until you "know", belief is to be regarded as such...
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© FERRO 2001-2002
[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: FERRO ]</p>
<strong>Q for Noah,
do you have any theory on where GOD originated from? If Im understanding you correctly, you will say that god created the world/universe, and he dicided when it ends, </strong><hr></blockquote>
God did not origionate. God is. It says in the Bible, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end." It is hard for me to think outside of time and space as that is where my reality exists. But God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, OmniPresent, et al. It is hard to wrap my mind around, but to me that should be how it is. If I can understand God completely then how could he be God? It also is said in the bible that God's ways are beyond our understanding. I would like to leave it at that, but my mind wants to understand! I am sure yours is the same.
[quote]<strong>do you think God has to answer to anybody, like if there is a heirarchy of gods, perhaps he is just a lower down one? Perhaps there is more than 1 universe, and each of the gods gets to create one, and look after its contents and inhabitants.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I don't think so. God was very clear in the bible. There is only 1 god and He is that 1. If God had to answer to someone would he be God anymore? As far as multiple gods and multiple universes, interesting idea, but I do not think so. Even if there was, we are answerable to our God and no other.
[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
<strong>God is dead.
No seriously, plenty of religions have had the same type of prophecies, but since they are not around any more I guess we can consider ourself safe from these predicitons.
The world/earth still will be around when the judeo-christian belifes are nothing but distant history too... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, if you are right then I lived my life and no harm, no foul. And it justifies any mode of living since there is no higher power to answer to. If you are wrong, then you will find out how right I am and how wrong you are when you die. This goes for all things, Life after death, end of the world, and the events leading up to the end. when you die, you will either cease to exist (a popular belief), or there will be an afterlife and you will know who was right and who was full of it. Pray you are right in your beliefs. Meanwhile I pray for all of you. Hope you don't mind.
[quote]<strong>Have you read Douglas Adams? he wrote some great stuff about the end of the universe. Just comedy, but still worth the read.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Hitchhikers Guide series. Who has not read that (and aren't you ashamed of yourself for not doing so
<strong>I can supply a less civil reply if you really need one?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you for holding back!
<strong>NoahJ, trying really hard to convince yourself, eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I need no convicing. I am convinced of everything I post. I could be a lot more assertive and try to steamroll every other opinion, but who would enjoy that? Nobody. I am interested in discussion, not me preaching to all of you and you all feeling like I am trying to be morally superior. If you disagree with me then that is your decision, I never said you had to like what I post. It is just another side in the debate for you to hear. I simply happen to believe it is the correct side.
When will the world end? Really, I have no idea. I don't believe people can predict much of anything about the future. It's clear to me that financial analysts can't predict interest rates or stock performance. It's clear that psychologists can't predict behavior. Etc.
It's tough to live with uncertainty, but you get used to it after a while.