Dropping bars, and dropping calls and slowing data rates are different. You need to go back and read Mossberg's review. Apple made it appear that it's only a issue with the display reporting the wrong number of bars. We all know that is false. The issue affects call quality, causes drop calls, and causes slow or no data flow. Below is a quote from Mossberg's review and Apple's lie.
We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.
Here's a question for you:
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.
Many of us were hoping that the missing coating was the explanation. We wanted to blame it on Foxcon. How could Apple engineers ever have made such a mistake. It makes no sense. If that turns out to be the problem, then it only confirms what others have been saying for some time. Apple needs to bring assembly back to the States where they can supervise it properly.
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.
Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.
That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:
"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.
Here's a question for you:
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.
Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.
Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.
Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.
I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.
I never said that the antenna issue didn't exist. I'm asking for evidence that it leads to a massive increase in dropped calls - as some of the Apple-basher are claiming. So far, they seem to think that "billy-joe-bob at the corner drugstore says he had a problem" is real evidence.
Yup, all of this is the U.S.' AT&T problem. I've used every version of the iPhone (purchased in countries where it is sold unlocked) with local carriers of different countries, and the only call problem I ever had was with the first gen iPhone, which often wouldn't receive my calls and would later give me missed call notifications for calls that never rang.
After I got the iPhone 3G, never again I had trouble. Orange in France, TIM in Italy, T-Mob in Germany, Smartone Vodafone in Hong Kong, America Movil in South America... never a dropped call, never bad call quality. I've already got the iPhone 4 unlocked in Europe. I can't even replicate the death grip thing, reception's so good.
There was a time when, if you loved Apple, it used to suck not being in the U.S.... I guess the times, they are a' changing...
I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.
One thing I see is that you're not expecting Apple to present its findings as thoroughly. If we want to talk about having scientific standards, even those that have a good reputation are supposed to present their data.
That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:
"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
It's not just dropped calls, those are extreme cases. But very common and reproducible nevertheless. There are also many times where the call does not drop, but the voice quality goes down. Or where the data download rate takes a nosedive. I reproduced the issue on several different iPhone 4's. All with a simple finger tip press on one small spot on the phone. And I have seen compelling video proof from countless other people. There will always be doubters like you. And that's fine. Proving something to you will not fix the issue. Only Apple can fix the issue. And I'm sure Apple knows by now they have an issue. But the fix might be costly. Its blogs like these that will keep the issue alive and push Apple into fixing this issue if enough of their customer base experience and complain about it (or don't buy their flawed product). And, by the way, you still haven't answered my question. How many phones do you know will drop calls, or cause nosedive data download rates, by simply touching the phone with a finger tip in one small spot ?
I can not imagine there will be a rev two of the iPhone 4 because of an antenna issue that can be fixed with any case, a piece of tape or any non conductive coating like clear nail polish.
I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.
I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.
OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better.
This reception thing is so blown out of proportion it is just plain silly. The poor notification system in iOS is a much bigger problem than the death grip. The lack of wifi tethering is a bigger issue than the death grip. I could go on.
OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better. .
Kind of like how the Apple boys like to dismiss the iPhone issues as "overblown" and "I don't experience it on my iPhone". I'd like to say the same about my Evo. Do not experience any of the "overblown" blog posts on Evo issues. Battery life is excellent, I have no screen seperation, etc, etc.
Like you said, I do love Wi-Fi tethering and unobtrusive notifications, and the ability to have a custom homescreen with my information quickly at my fingertips (oh yea, and holding my phone in my right AND left hand and making a call). Not a grid of icons or "apps", i.e. glorified mobile websites.
This will eventually change, as there's no way Apple can not add this killer feature to both the upcoming iPod touch 4 and to the company's iChat AV product on the Mac, particularly given the company's openness in working to get other mobile makers in on the same standards-based protocol for video chats. For now however, setting up a FaceTime conversation depends upon the mobile phone network, meaning you can not use the feature in places where you have WiFi but no cellular service. That's pretty disappointing given how easy it is to find holes in AT&T's service.
I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
Please explain that to me...
I'll be getting my iPhone 4 on this Saturday. And I'll test thoroughly what you're talking about; actually, it's looking stunning to me.
True, you can activate WiFi in Airplane mode, but until iPhone 4 you could not use MobilePhone application in airplane mode. At all.
Thanks, anyway, for yet another perfect demonstration of what this board actually is.
Isn't FaceTime utilizing some kind of h264? And if so, isn't there a small license fee involved, even thought FaceTime is an open specification?
Remember that H.264 is the only video codec that is viable for mobiles. It's HW accelerated on the silicon. FaceTime specification is free. The phone's OS will be responsible for connecting with the camera to record and encode and then to decode on the other end. All FaceTime is doing is transmitting this data efficiently. Besides H.264 being free until at least 2014 the user will never have to worry about any fee, ever.
But you do bring up an interesting point about the specification. Is it like HTML5 which allows for any video or audio codec to be used or does it specific that video is certain profile of H.264 and the audio is a certain profile on AAC. I'd have to think it's the latter because it's the only way to make it interoperable across all machines, for many reasons.
Comments
Dropping bars, and dropping calls and slowing data rates are different. You need to go back and read Mossberg's review. Apple made it appear that it's only a issue with the display reporting the wrong number of bars. We all know that is false. The issue affects call quality, causes drop calls, and causes slow or no data flow. Below is a quote from Mossberg's review and Apple's lie.
We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.
Here's a question for you:
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.
Many of us were hoping that the missing coating was the explanation. We wanted to blame it on Foxcon. How could Apple engineers ever have made such a mistake. It makes no sense. If that turns out to be the problem, then it only confirms what others have been saying for some time. Apple needs to bring assembly back to the States where they can supervise it properly.
Here's a question for you:
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
Disclaimer: Writing this on a Macbook Pro, former 3G and 3GS user who got tired of the same old UI and of course, AT&T.
Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:
"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.
Here's a question for you:
What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.
Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.
Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.
Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.
I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.
I never said that the antenna issue didn't exist. I'm asking for evidence that it leads to a massive increase in dropped calls - as some of the Apple-basher are claiming. So far, they seem to think that "billy-joe-bob at the corner drugstore says he had a problem" is real evidence.
After I got the iPhone 3G, never again I had trouble. Orange in France, TIM in Italy, T-Mob in Germany, Smartone Vodafone in Hong Kong, America Movil in South America... never a dropped call, never bad call quality. I've already got the iPhone 4 unlocked in Europe. I can't even replicate the death grip thing, reception's so good.
There was a time when, if you loved Apple, it used to suck not being in the U.S.... I guess the times, they are a' changing...
I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.
One thing I see is that you're not expecting Apple to present its findings as thoroughly. If we want to talk about having scientific standards, even those that have a good reputation are supposed to present their data.
That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:
"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"
Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
It's not just dropped calls, those are extreme cases. But very common and reproducible nevertheless. There are also many times where the call does not drop, but the voice quality goes down. Or where the data download rate takes a nosedive. I reproduced the issue on several different iPhone 4's. All with a simple finger tip press on one small spot on the phone. And I have seen compelling video proof from countless other people. There will always be doubters like you. And that's fine. Proving something to you will not fix the issue. Only Apple can fix the issue. And I'm sure Apple knows by now they have an issue. But the fix might be costly. Its blogs like these that will keep the issue alive and push Apple into fixing this issue if enough of their customer base experience and complain about it (or don't buy their flawed product). And, by the way, you still haven't answered my question. How many phones do you know will drop calls, or cause nosedive data download rates, by simply touching the phone with a finger tip in one small spot ?
I can not imagine there will be a rev two of the iPhone 4 because of an antenna issue that can be fixed with any case, a piece of tape or any non conductive coating like clear nail polish.
I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.
I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.
OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better.
This reception thing is so blown out of proportion it is just plain silly. The poor notification system in iOS is a much bigger problem than the death grip. The lack of wifi tethering is a bigger issue than the death grip. I could go on.
OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better.
Kind of like how the Apple boys like to dismiss the iPhone issues as "overblown" and "I don't experience it on my iPhone". I'd like to say the same about my Evo. Do not experience any of the "overblown" blog posts on Evo issues. Battery life is excellent, I have no screen seperation, etc, etc.
Like you said, I do love Wi-Fi tethering and unobtrusive notifications, and the ability to have a custom homescreen with my information quickly at my fingertips (oh yea, and holding my phone in my right AND left hand and making a call). Not a grid of icons or "apps", i.e. glorified mobile websites.
This will eventually change, as there's no way Apple can not add this killer feature to both the upcoming iPod touch 4 and to the company's iChat AV product on the Mac, particularly given the company's openness in working to get other mobile makers in on the same standards-based protocol for video chats. For now however, setting up a FaceTime conversation depends upon the mobile phone network, meaning you can not use the feature in places where you have WiFi but no cellular service. That's pretty disappointing given how easy it is to find holes in AT&T's service.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
Please explain that to me...
I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
Please explain that to me...
I'll be getting my iPhone 4 on this Saturday. And I'll test thoroughly what you're talking about; actually, it's looking stunning to me.
True, you can activate WiFi in Airplane mode, but until iPhone 4 you could not use MobilePhone application in airplane mode. At all.
Thanks, anyway, for yet another perfect demonstration of what this board actually is.
Isn't FaceTime utilizing some kind of h264? And if so, isn't there a small license fee involved, even thought FaceTime is an open specification?
Remember that H.264 is the only video codec that is viable for mobiles. It's HW accelerated on the silicon. FaceTime specification is free. The phone's OS will be responsible for connecting with the camera to record and encode and then to decode on the other end. All FaceTime is doing is transmitting this data efficiently. Besides H.264 being free until at least 2014 the user will never have to worry about any fee, ever.
But you do bring up an interesting point about the specification. Is it like HTML5 which allows for any video or audio codec to be used or does it specific that video is certain profile of H.264 and the audio is a certain profile on AAC. I'd have to think it's the latter because it's the only way to make it interoperable across all machines, for many reasons.