Return it for what? Another defective iPhone? What about the 2-year AT&T contract?
What I don't get is why people complain about their ATT contract. Surely most iP4 users would be on ATT anyway. So why not return the phone get all your money back ( no stocking fee) and get an Android phone?
If you Love the IPHONE4 then KEEP IT............If you are having problems either put a bumper on or give it back and get a 3GS. OR GET YOUR MONEY BACK.
Seems like the grip of death is a problem for some and for others its not.
BOTTOM LINE: I'll wait to see what type of fix APPLE comes up with. I have a bumper on mine and have no problem.
That's what we call "ruin the reputation" (provided he had one)
It then takes more than 30 years of experience to some ``global heads' ' to figure out the exact meaning of the words ``antenna bridge' ' and use them as professionals do?
Receiver? Really?
``Functional point' '? What about real hardware and not block diagrams?
WTF do you professional know? WTF are you professional now mumbling about?
== QA engineer (glorified s/w tester), who isn't even good enough as a tester (doesn't want to work).
"A graduate of Wentworth Institute and Bryant College, he is a member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers and is a NARTE board-certified electromagnetic engineer. Bob is one of the original authors of the IEEE 802.11 Wireless LAN standard underlying Wi-Fi."
Glorified software tester? I'm not so sure man.
You don't sound very smart right now. Do you have any clue what it takes to write a wireless standard? I'm a smart ass engineer with a master's degree in EE and I wouldn't touch RF with a 10-foot pole, because I know I'll sound like an idiot. You on the other hand, don't know enough, your knowledge level is so low that you actually think it is fine to mouth off like that.
If you Love the IPHONE4 then KEEP IT............If you are having problems either put a bumper on or give it back and get a 3GS. OR GET YOUR MONEY BACK.
Seems like the grip of death is a problem for some and for others its not.
BOTTOM LINE: I'll wait to see what type of fix APPLE comes up with. I have a bumper on mine and have no problem.
Then go to the poll thread and vote
My little survey of 20 iP4 users on the SF Peninsula says' 1 person had a problem. They decided to get a cover. Problem solved. I asked if they felt ripped off having to buy a cover at $30 they said no. They wanted a good cover.
Sure, it's a ridiculously low sample but it says something. It's clear not everyone has the problem and so far those that do are screaming disproportionately loud.
Apple makes people emotional. Apple sells the dream and if there's anything not perfect in the product people scream and seemingly more loudly with an Apple mistake/error/suspect design error than were it any other manufacturer.
CR has angered many manufacturers over the years, but they could not do their job if they were worried about that. I've had lots of issues with CR reviews over the years, and they've gotten more than a couple letters from me when I thought they made mistakes -- but your criticisms are way, way over the top.
If anything, I was being cautious and giving them the benefit of the doubt. Faking tests is something they've been caught doing.
They claim not to accept any other payments/bribes, but have the money from subscribers alone to spend tens of millions of dollars per incident to defend against constant lawsuits? Right.
Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS 4 update.
Dude that line is just hilarious and it keeps popping up in your messages. Why would they do that?
To come clean on the issue, of course. Apple is an upstanding company and deals fairly with its customers, right? Field Test Mode has been available in every version of iPhone OS (iOS) until 4.0 and allowed the convenient display of AT&T signal strength as measured by the phone itself. So let's see it restored. More and more people will eventually get to the bottom of the matter, as they have already begun to do so with AnandTech and now CR. The sooner Apple addresses it, rather than ignoring it or continuing to cover it up, the better.
Sounds like consumer reports really went out on a limb here....if they are wrong in their claims then you would think that would be defamation.
I'm a long-time CR subscriber. I believe they're truly unbiased and very careful about criteria that they think match their readers' needs, even if the reports are simplified so much you can hardly tell.
There are uncertainties around ALL measured quantities. I think CR did a service here, and think that Bob E's criticisms are based on his own assumptions of the CR methodology; perhaps they'd give a more definitive answer. But it's hard to imagine how they'd turn the issue upside down.
Fact: antennas are sensitive to conductors in their field, and the closer the hand, ring, cheek, the more it can alter the antenna. Fact two: higher performance antennas are often more sensitive to changes in the environment. When I ran a ham station, I used specialized equipment to determine small adjustments as I changed frequencies when I moved the antenna. Cellphones have a MUCH more variable environment and every radio engineer knows that these issues matter.
What should Apple do? I think CR went too far in calling for free bumpers or some other fix. I would've just said, "Works great most of the time; works lousy if you give it the Grip of Death. You'll have to be careful how you hold it in marginal signal areas, possibly buy a case. Unless Apple supplies a good resolution to the antenna quirk, we're withholding our recommendation so our readers don't get unpleasant surprises.?
And I think that AI is inadvertently playing into the anti-Apple game by minor quibbles, harping, etc on what is actually fairly small potatoes.
The more I read from this guy, the less insight he appears to have. Sure he has credentials but what he says about this issue seems slightly off target. Hard to understand his logic concerning the signal power received by the cell tower. The CR results leads me to speculate that a finger held across the antennas is affecting the transmission of the signal as well as the reception. Just because the phone is supposed to output a stronger signal when it thinks it is further from the tower doesn't mean that any of the signal is leaving the antenna when it is blocked.
... said the anonymous forum poster to the expert.
Your side lost the argument. Are you posting garbage now as chaff to cover a retreat?
That guy has forgotten 10x more about engineering than you know about anything. You lack the credentials to argue with this guy... At least try to make your clucking more entertaining or something.
... said the anonymous forum poster to the expert.
Your side lost the argument. Are you posting garbage now as chaff to cover a retreat?
That guy has forgotten 10x more about engineering than you know about anything. You lack the credentials to argue with this guy... At least try to make your clucking more entertaining or something.
No clucking is involved. If you want to respond to my post, please make it something relevant. I ask you, where does the logic fit or fail from a scientific perspective? Let us learn your wisdom.
CR has angered many manufacturers over the years, but they could not do their job if they were worried about that. I've had lots of issues with CR reviews over the years, and they've gotten more than a couple letters from me when I thought they made mistakes -- but your criticisms are way, way over the top.
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
… duct tape on that vulnerable spot would work too!
… not to say: Don't Buy it.
… less SENSATIONAL, and …!
The fact that majority of the buyers are ••• NOT ••• complaining can't be ignored!
CR is yet again … and previously!
Again - Can't Recommend and Don't Buy are not the same…
I wonder if there is some AAPL stock manipulation involved here...
Also, has CR ever made any products, including phones, and submitted them for review?
… carriers want it?
… same with iPads?
Is everyone but CR so stupid?
…? In which case,…Of course they are!!!! When they are ready, …!
Is CR proposing a SPECIFIC FIX, SPECIFIC REDESIGN? If yes, why don't they SUBMIT IT TO THE WORLD… EVERYONE … more BRILLIANT they are than Apple, who created that whole Product Category in the first place…!
… No, The Sky is NOT Falling!!!! The Apple Stock had a minor sell off …
CR should put ALL Android Phones, and all other Smart Phones to the same Test and tell us how those phones do...
But they won't do that…!
As to …CR should publicly defend its methodology!!!
As of now, CR looks like CLICKBAITING PR STUNT GANG, at least in my opinion!!! Tech Swiftboating!!!
…let the whole world test it at least as much as iPhone has been!!!!
@macologist, next time you're ready to post: fold your left pinky against your palm, and with your right hand, wrap your hand about six times with that silver duct tape so you can't accidentally hit CapsLock or the banger (!). Maybe, ditto with your right pinky so you don't feel tempted to rhetorically “ask” so many questions.
And Good Lord! I am a very happy iPhone4 user; I don't want the Apple haters to have a field day at the expense of my recommendations to my friends and family looking stupid; I want Apple to continue taking chances with bold design and engineering statements instead of lowest-common-denominator solutions; I even replied to the confused poster on the CR website who worried that some baby might get zapped, by putting my tongue on the Gone Spot and (kinda fun and perfectly successfully) calling.
But your paranoia, overreaction and easily-dismissed FUD about CR makes all of us fans look like idiots. Enjoy life some other way, OK? (But maybe not by making fun of ME.)
PS: as a longtime CR subscriber, I'll note that they DO issue “Unacceptable” ratings and refuse to rank products with serious problems. Their readership knows that, even if you don't. They withhold their “Recommended” rating where there are questions, such as a new car design where they can't judge how well it will hold up. Their readers know that, too. And PPS: most people credit the Treo as being the first real smartphone, even as Apple “revolutionized” app phones like it says it “ignited” the personal computer.
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
I purchased all the GE Café line when I remodeled my kitchen. Mostly because my sister is a vice president at GE Capital and no, I did not ask for a discount, I just didn't want any criticism when she came over at Thanksgiving. Although the brand and model is top rated by CR I think the appliances are complete garbage. I have had the service tech out numerous times to fix totally lame manufacturing QC issues. So yes CR is clueless, but a lot of people including myself, do pay attention to their reports.
I purchased all the GE Café line when I remodeled my kitchen. Mostly because my sister is a vice president at GE Capital and no, I did not ask for a discount, I just didn't want any criticism when she came over at Thanksgiving. Although the brand and model is top rated by CR I think the appliances are complete garbage. I have had the service tech out numerous times to fix totally lame manufacturing QC issues. So ye,s CR is clueless, but a lot of people including me, do pay attention to their reports.
He said, she said .... I base my purchases on past experiences. Everything I've purchased from Apple in the past, prior to the iPhone 4, has worked exceptionally well, damn near flawlessly. It's early yet, just a couple of days, but I haven't had any issues with my new phone ... knock on wood. If I have problems people here will hear about them ... I guarantee. As of yet though ... nada.
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
Ah, the good old "for instance" proof.
Yes, CR has made mistakes. But the point I'm making here is that some people judge whether they're right or have made an error in their testing by whether they agree with the results. Now that's a mistake ALL the time. A mistake of logic. The manufacturers frequently claim that CR has made an error when they don't recommend or find a fault with one of their products, which is completely understandable. The fans of those products are often more than willing to go along with that line of thinking, which is less understandable. When CR started rating some SUVs as unsafe, the outrage didn't come just from the car makers, it came SUV owners who just didn't want to know.
Were all of CR's rollover test results impeccable? Probably not, but it sure raised the issue of unstable SUVs, to the point where the government toughened up the standards.
Watching my iPhone 4 go from 5 bars to no service and have the call cut off or the data stop transmitting every time I hold it is all the proof I need.
Go buy a slip cover instead of a going to the movies for once and enjoy your phone, if the problem is so persistent.
Comments
Return it for what? Another defective iPhone? What about the 2-year AT&T contract?
What I don't get is why people complain about their ATT contract. Surely most iP4 users would be on ATT anyway. So why not return the phone get all your money back ( no stocking fee) and get an Android phone?
Seems like the grip of death is a problem for some and for others its not.
BOTTOM LINE: I'll wait to see what type of fix APPLE comes up with. I have a bumper on mine and have no problem.
Go read what the guy's written in his blog.
That's what we call "ruin the reputation" (provided he had one)
It then takes more than 30 years of experience to some ``global heads' ' to figure out the exact meaning of the words ``antenna bridge' ' and use them as professionals do?
Receiver? Really?
``Functional point' '? What about real hardware and not block diagrams?
WTF do you professional know? WTF are you professional now mumbling about?
First find the chamber, then open your mouth.
P.S. "Bob provides unified leadership direction for all matters related to the strategy, policies, best practices, and business operations of the research products group"
== QA engineer (glorified s/w tester), who isn't even good enough as a tester (doesn't want to work).
"A graduate of Wentworth Institute and Bryant College, he is a member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers and is a NARTE board-certified electromagnetic engineer. Bob is one of the original authors of the IEEE 802.11 Wireless LAN standard underlying Wi-Fi."
Glorified software tester? I'm not so sure man.
You don't sound very smart right now. Do you have any clue what it takes to write a wireless standard? I'm a smart ass engineer with a master's degree in EE and I wouldn't touch RF with a 10-foot pole, because I know I'll sound like an idiot. You on the other hand, don't know enough, your knowledge level is so low that you actually think it is fine to mouth off like that.
If you Love the IPHONE4 then KEEP IT............If you are having problems either put a bumper on or give it back and get a 3GS. OR GET YOUR MONEY BACK.
Seems like the grip of death is a problem for some and for others its not.
BOTTOM LINE: I'll wait to see what type of fix APPLE comes up with. I have a bumper on mine and have no problem.
Then go to the poll thread and vote
My little survey of 20 iP4 users on the SF Peninsula says' 1 person had a problem. They decided to get a cover. Problem solved. I asked if they felt ripped off having to buy a cover at $30 they said no. They wanted a good cover.
Sure, it's a ridiculously low sample but it says something. It's clear not everyone has the problem and so far those that do are screaming disproportionately loud.
Apple makes people emotional. Apple sells the dream and if there's anything not perfect in the product people scream and seemingly more loudly with an Apple mistake/error/suspect design error than were it any other manufacturer.
Crazy
CR has angered many manufacturers over the years, but they could not do their job if they were worried about that. I've had lots of issues with CR reviews over the years, and they've gotten more than a couple letters from me when I thought they made mistakes -- but your criticisms are way, way over the top.
If anything, I was being cautious and giving them the benefit of the doubt. Faking tests is something they've been caught doing.
Suzuki says they had them on tape instructing the testers to make the Samurai roll over no matter what. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-717209.html
Toyota's Prius still had CRs top rating right in the middle of the largest recall in history. It's still listed as their top pick "green car": http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...p-picks-ov.htm
The NHTSA caught them faking child car seat tests and forced them to retract those reports. They've lied about the nutritional value in dog food too: http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/new...fantseats.html
They also try to coerce sites into removing articles critical of their testing procedures: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ts_scores.html
They claim not to accept any other payments/bribes, but have the money from subscribers alone to spend tens of millions of dollars per incident to defend against constant lawsuits? Right.
Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS 4 update.
Dude that line is just hilarious and it keeps popping up in your messages. Why would they do that?
To come clean on the issue, of course. Apple is an upstanding company and deals fairly with its customers, right? Field Test Mode has been available in every version of iPhone OS (iOS) until 4.0 and allowed the convenient display of AT&T signal strength as measured by the phone itself. So let's see it restored. More and more people will eventually get to the bottom of the matter, as they have already begun to do so with AnandTech and now CR. The sooner Apple addresses it, rather than ignoring it or continuing to cover it up, the better.
http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/...-test-mode.htm
Sounds like consumer reports really went out on a limb here....if they are wrong in their claims then you would think that would be defamation.
I'm a long-time CR subscriber. I believe they're truly unbiased and very careful about criteria that they think match their readers' needs, even if the reports are simplified so much you can hardly tell.
There are uncertainties around ALL measured quantities. I think CR did a service here, and think that Bob E's criticisms are based on his own assumptions of the CR methodology; perhaps they'd give a more definitive answer. But it's hard to imagine how they'd turn the issue upside down.
Fact: antennas are sensitive to conductors in their field, and the closer the hand, ring, cheek, the more it can alter the antenna. Fact two: higher performance antennas are often more sensitive to changes in the environment. When I ran a ham station, I used specialized equipment to determine small adjustments as I changed frequencies when I moved the antenna. Cellphones have a MUCH more variable environment and every radio engineer knows that these issues matter.
What should Apple do? I think CR went too far in calling for free bumpers or some other fix. I would've just said, "Works great most of the time; works lousy if you give it the Grip of Death. You'll have to be careful how you hold it in marginal signal areas, possibly buy a case. Unless Apple supplies a good resolution to the antenna quirk, we're withholding our recommendation so our readers don't get unpleasant surprises.?
And I think that AI is inadvertently playing into the anti-Apple game by minor quibbles, harping, etc on what is actually fairly small potatoes.
The quote above was from the updated article.
The more I read from this guy, the less insight he appears to have. Sure he has credentials but what he says about this issue seems slightly off target. Hard to understand his logic concerning the signal power received by the cell tower. The CR results leads me to speculate that a finger held across the antennas is affecting the transmission of the signal as well as the reception. Just because the phone is supposed to output a stronger signal when it thinks it is further from the tower doesn't mean that any of the signal is leaving the antenna when it is blocked.
... said the anonymous forum poster to the expert.
Your side lost the argument. Are you posting garbage now as chaff to cover a retreat?
That guy has forgotten 10x more about engineering than you know about anything. You lack the credentials to argue with this guy... At least try to make your clucking more entertaining or something.
... said the anonymous forum poster to the expert.
Your side lost the argument. Are you posting garbage now as chaff to cover a retreat?
That guy has forgotten 10x more about engineering than you know about anything. You lack the credentials to argue with this guy... At least try to make your clucking more entertaining or something.
No clucking is involved. If you want to respond to my post, please make it something relevant. I ask you, where does the logic fit or fail from a scientific perspective? Let us learn your wisdom.
Now there's a freakin' surprise!
CR has angered many manufacturers over the years, but they could not do their job if they were worried about that. I've had lots of issues with CR reviews over the years, and they've gotten more than a couple letters from me when I thought they made mistakes -- but your criticisms are way, way over the top.
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
…!
If …!
…a fix!
For now, …!
… duct tape on that vulnerable spot would work too!
… not to say: Don't Buy it.
… less SENSATIONAL, and …!
The fact that majority of the buyers are ••• NOT ••• complaining can't be ignored!
CR is yet again … and previously!
Again - Can't Recommend and Don't Buy are not the same…
I wonder if there is some AAPL stock manipulation involved here...
Also, has CR ever made any products, including phones, and submitted them for review?
… carriers want it?
… same with iPads?
Is everyone but CR so stupid?
…? In which case,…Of course they are!!!! When they are ready, …!
Is CR proposing a SPECIFIC FIX, SPECIFIC REDESIGN? If yes, why don't they SUBMIT IT TO THE WORLD… EVERYONE … more BRILLIANT they are than Apple, who created that whole Product Category in the first place…!
… No, The Sky is NOT Falling!!!! The Apple Stock had a minor sell off …
CR should put ALL Android Phones, and all other Smart Phones to the same Test and tell us how those phones do...
But they won't do that…!
As to …CR should publicly defend its methodology!!!
As of now, CR looks like CLICKBAITING PR STUNT GANG, at least in my opinion!!! Tech Swiftboating!!!
…let the whole world test it at least as much as iPhone has been!!!!
@macologist, next time you're ready to post: fold your left pinky against your palm, and with your right hand, wrap your hand about six times with that silver duct tape so you can't accidentally hit CapsLock or the banger (!). Maybe, ditto with your right pinky so you don't feel tempted to rhetorically “ask” so many questions.
And Good Lord! I am a very happy iPhone4 user; I don't want the Apple haters to have a field day at the expense of my recommendations to my friends and family looking stupid; I want Apple to continue taking chances with bold design and engineering statements instead of lowest-common-denominator solutions; I even replied to the confused poster on the CR website who worried that some baby might get zapped, by putting my tongue on the Gone Spot and (kinda fun and perfectly successfully) calling.
But your paranoia, overreaction and easily-dismissed FUD about CR makes all of us fans look like idiots. Enjoy life some other way, OK? (But maybe not by making fun of ME.)
PS: as a longtime CR subscriber, I'll note that they DO issue “Unacceptable” ratings and refuse to rank products with serious problems. Their readership knows that, even if you don't. They withhold their “Recommended” rating where there are questions, such as a new car design where they can't judge how well it will hold up. Their readers know that, too. And PPS: most people credit the Treo as being the first real smartphone, even as Apple “revolutionized” app phones like it says it “ignited” the personal computer.
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
I purchased all the GE Café line when I remodeled my kitchen. Mostly because my sister is a vice president at GE Capital and no, I did not ask for a discount, I just didn't want any criticism when she came over at Thanksgiving. Although the brand and model is top rated by CR I think the appliances are complete garbage. I have had the service tech out numerous times to fix totally lame manufacturing QC issues. So yes CR is clueless, but a lot of people including myself, do pay attention to their reports.
I purchased all the GE Café line when I remodeled my kitchen. Mostly because my sister is a vice president at GE Capital and no, I did not ask for a discount, I just didn't want any criticism when she came over at Thanksgiving. Although the brand and model is top rated by CR I think the appliances are complete garbage. I have had the service tech out numerous times to fix totally lame manufacturing QC issues. So ye,s CR is clueless, but a lot of people including me, do pay attention to their reports.
Click the view the vote link
http://online.wsj.com/community/grou...ritical-review
I'm not taking sides here, but I do believe that CR has been very wrong in their test results and recommendations over the years.
The last time I listened to their advice was three years ago. I purchased their top-rated microwave oven from Costco and the damn thing literally blow up and caught fire less than 30 days after purchase. I went back to Costco and purchased more a expensive model from another manufacturer that was poorly rated by CR in the same test.
Three years later it is still the best microwave oven I have ever owned.
Ah, the good old "for instance" proof.
Yes, CR has made mistakes. But the point I'm making here is that some people judge whether they're right or have made an error in their testing by whether they agree with the results. Now that's a mistake ALL the time. A mistake of logic. The manufacturers frequently claim that CR has made an error when they don't recommend or find a fault with one of their products, which is completely understandable. The fans of those products are often more than willing to go along with that line of thinking, which is less understandable. When CR started rating some SUVs as unsafe, the outrage didn't come just from the car makers, it came SUV owners who just didn't want to know.
Were all of CR's rollover test results impeccable? Probably not, but it sure raised the issue of unstable SUVs, to the point where the government toughened up the standards.
Watching my iPhone 4 go from 5 bars to no service and have the call cut off or the data stop transmitting every time I hold it is all the proof I need.
Go buy a slip cover instead of a going to the movies for once and enjoy your phone, if the problem is so persistent.
I thought the biggest problem for the iPhone 4 is that they're selling faster than Apple can make them.
You are absolutely right. Then the second biggest problem would be, that most of the countries apart from US have still to wait for the rollout.