iPhone 4 recall could cost Apple $1.5 billion

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  • Reply 61 of 110
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLoveStuff View Post


    A free bumper with your iPhone4 and be done with it!!!

    Of coarse, Apple haters will never let it go, but who gives a f__k what they think anyway!

    On the other hand, if a software fix is actually possible, that would be even better.

    A full recall is not going to happen because the iPhone4 works great with a damn bumper on.



    Agreed. Then fix it in rev 2. I said this was big. Then came CR, then CNET, then lawsuits for all phones. This is not going away. A free bumper that cost .29 cents to make and fix for the next batch. Problem solved. They cannot charge for them. They simply can't even though 75% use a case. It would be sour apples.
  • Reply 62 of 110
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member
    "A recall of the iPhone 4 could cost Apple as much as $1.5 billion"... except it wont because there will be no recall.
  • Reply 63 of 110
    reveriereverie Posts: 66member
    A recall is total BS. The iPhone's antenna issue is not safety related, like an exploding battery or failing brakes. Therefore a recall is not necessary. Customers can try and decide on their own if they want to keep the phone or return it within the regular 30 days return period. If Apple gets too many returns they will have to issue free bumpers. If they still get too many returns they will have to replace the iPhone 4 before Christmas. Mr Sacco should try to calculate what that would cost instead of hyperventilating about a recall.
  • Reply 64 of 110
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post




    Software is unlikely to fix the problem for 2 reasons



    1 - This is most likely a physics problem

    2 - Apple are focusing on changing the display bars





    The only way software can fix the problem is if the dropped calls etc are because the firmware switches from 3g to edge to gprs too slowly to maintain the call. In this case software COULD make a significant difference.



    Assumptions.
  • Reply 65 of 110
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    The Wii Motes would break the tv if you let them fly accidentally. Nintendo gave all customers free rubber covers for every Wii mote they owned. I got 4 of them for no charge. Apple can afford to make a lower cost version of their case for free distribution for those that need it. It does not have to be the fancy bumpers that are more expensive.
  • Reply 66 of 110
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,617member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    At some point that fact (if it is so) will make a good sound bite for Apple. But it doesn't matter at this point point because there is a feeding frenzy going on. Right now a backlash against Apple seems to be happening. Apple is just becoming too damn successful for many people's liking. In my opinion Apple should quickly revise the build to eliminate or minimize whatever fault there is but keep quiet about it. Without making a public statement they should hand out a free invisible 'stick on' fix tapes for affected customers (but perhaps not made by Apple as that could be construed as admitting fault). They should also up their advertising effort as they seem to be doing. In a while this issue will be history and Apple can use the sound bite re the number of returned phones when news hungry journalists raise the question while at the same time pointing out how sales went up during this period. For SJ to open up and admit to a faulty product is ridiculous and would be a bad move. Its not like its a Toyota that inexplicably looses its breaks while careening down the highway. Arial issue? Not ideal but minor nonetheless.



    A feeing frenzy?



    There is as much of a feeding frenzy about this as there was when the White 3GS apparently turned pink and overheated. A couple of reports on the news and now it's all just bullshit reports in tech blogs that the general public (aka 99.9% of the iPhone 4 purchasers) don't read.



    When the initial reports of signal loss were on the news in the uk do you know what the response was from purchasers? They bought flipping cases.



    My friend is a manager in a large o2 store and he states that as with the 3GS most people buy cases for their iPhones. The iPhone 4 is no different. He has overheard conversations of queuing customers as they discuss the potential signal issues and that it doesn't matter as they are buying a case anyway.



    A little side note: has any of these tests made it clear that their is only signal degradation then in 3G mode?



    Most iPhone owners I know switch 3G off unless they need the web whilst out and about.



    I tried this with my case off and regardless of how hard I grip the phone the bars don't move.
  • Reply 67 of 110
    reveriereverie Posts: 66member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    Software is unlikely to fix the problem for 2 reasons



    1 - This is most likely a physics problem

    2 - Apple are focusing on changing the display bars



    The only way software can fix the problem is if the dropped calls etc are because the firmware switches from 3g to edge to gprs too slowly to maintain the call. In this case software COULD make a significant difference.



    The software update will help Apple a lot. After the update, every single iPhone owner or potential owner walking into a store will be able to verify that, yes, you do lose one bar when you touch the black stripe and, no, this is not such a big deal and won't stop you from make calls, (not to mention all the other great features which are why you're buying a smartphone in the first place and not just a regular phone). The FUD will retreat and sanity will come back into this discussion.



    Secondary measures for Apple would be to

    1. Offer free bumpers.

    2. Release a more sophisticated white paper that shows that phone reception is about more than just decibels and, even with the finger on the black stripe, the iPhone 4 has better reception than older iPhones.
  • Reply 68 of 110
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,701member
    Apple is the only company in the world whose products generate such passion.



    Every customer wants one and every competitor wants to copy it with such incredible passion.

    Every financial analyst wants a say about the company.





    As the world goes into a frenzy over a non-issue software glitch, Apple is as steady as ever as they continue to innovate an execute their plans.



    Which ever competitor coerced ConsumerReports to revert their statement will end up with nothing for their money. Perhaps blogs sites will make a few bucks in advertising and the media will have something to talk about for a few days but it will not phase Apple one bit.



    Trolls can rant until they turn blue, but there will be no recall or design change on the iPhone 4 because there is no need for that. The signal indicator software on the phone will be updated in the next iOS update. That's all folks.



    Time will tell.
  • Reply 69 of 110
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jellybelly View Post


    I wish everyone would read the article in Anandtech on this issue. Anandtech is one of the most respected sites for information technology. Brian Klug & Anand Lal Shimpi did pretty thorough testing. The article can be found at: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2



    Excerpt:

    "The Antenna is Improved

    From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.



    With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all. It's amazing really to experience the difference in sensitivity the iPhone 4 brings compared to the 3GS, and issues from holding the phone aside, reception is absolutely definitely improved. I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There's no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet, even though measured signal is lower than the 3GS."



    Engadget's latest report:



    http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/y...is-not-broken/



    Quote:

    Anand Shimpi, Anandtech (Raleigh, North Carolina): "I can make the signal drop, but that's not because I'm some sort of superhero - anyone can make the signal drop on their iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, Nexus One, etc... The iPhone 4 simply drops "more of its signal" than other phones, depending on how you hold it, because of the location and design of the antenna.



    So to summarize, yes I can make the signal drop and it has led to dropped calls or trouble continuing the call. It's particularly bad in my office if I hold the phone "incorrectly" while texting or using the phone in portrait mode for something else. Luckily I'm on WiFi when I'm using it like that so it's normally not as big of an issue.



    Ultimately it is a real problem with the iPhone 4 and will impact those who have borderline AT&T network coverage more than those who have great coverage. When Apple pushes this new fix forward it's really going to show people whether they have good signal or bad signal where they live (hopefully)." (Make sure you check out Anandtech's full report on the signal issue, as well.)



  • Reply 70 of 110
    dominoxmldominoxml Posts: 110member
    I own an iPhone 4 and yes in some cases it?s an issue for me.



    I think a recall will / should not happen.



    A recall is indicated if a replicable, not-recoverable, fatal error with adverse health defects or unfeasible damage occurs.



    I know that some people like to construct this but this is not the case because there is a comparable generous return policy and the bumper is a way to circumvent the problem.



    I don?t know much about US law. In my country you have two to three attempts in a reasonable time frame to fix an issue before You can be forced to a refund.



    If an error is hard to understand / investigate in my experience a politic of targeted investigation and replacement is the way to go.



    For both, Apple and it?s customers, the 1.5 billion are better invested in improved warranty processes, quality assurance, manufacturing processes, research and customer support.



    Perhaps I will buy a bumper although it hurts the esthetics, which I dislike.



    I will not ask for a refund because there?s currently no other device that fits my needs as well as this phone. It works brilliant at 99% of my use cases. I'm just not 100% happy.
  • Reply 71 of 110
    vince_jtvince_jt Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienvenom View Post


    How are only 25% of the users affected? If it's a design flaw (and I'm not suggesting it is) wouldn't it be more like 100%?



    Well yeah, it is 100% if the conditions are met..

    - you are left handed

    - your palm can cover the left of the phone

    - you are frequently in low signal areas

    - you are right-handed but have unnaturally large hands and somehow end up covering the left and right antennas..





    Just don't hold it in that way (I want to hold it how I want)

    Just buy a bumper (they are ugly, I bought the phone for it's design as much as anything else)

    Just return it (but I like the phone, I don't want to return it, I shouldn't be obliged to, Apple should admit to, recall and fix the problem and then everybody will be happy again whether you're an insufferable Apple apologist or someone living in the real world with a bit of honesty and integrity)
  • Reply 72 of 110
    vince_jtvince_jt Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jellybelly View Post


    I wish everyone would read the article in Anandtech on this issue. Anandtech is one of the most respected sites for information technology. Brian Klug & Anand Lal Shimpi did pretty thorough testing. The article can be found at: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2



    Excerpt:

    "The Antenna is Improved

    From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.



    And what good is any improved antenna and reception if the signal can degrade more than any of the other handset in there test... from just holding it? Did you even read the full report or just the bit that you wanted to read? Did you even look at the table illustrating signal degregation across different handsets when held differently compared with iPhone 4 and conveniently forget to mention how much worse the signal is? The answer is you did, and you are still apologising for Apple. Congratulations.



    PS: if the antenna is so improved, then why use a case? You don't need it. Take it off and hold it normally, preferably in your left hand.

  • Reply 73 of 110
    vince_jtvince_jt Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    Oh, please don't let it require a recall.



    Why not, scared Apple will be tarnished? Well...they already are. And perception will get worse.



    Best to do a recall now rather than later. It will be more costly for them the longer they leave it.
  • Reply 74 of 110
    rabbit_coachrabbit_coach Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Nail. Meet head.



    I say that as a shareholder (not just as a loyal consumer). I was hoping that Jobs's absence would be a great opportunity for Apple to discover a new way of being what it is without the attitude. Unfortunately, Jobs has come back more omnipotent, more irascible, more paranoid, and less appealing than ever.



    No one else in the company seems to have the guts to say a damn thing. Not Cook, not Oppenheimer, not the Board.



    And I would say, if not for Steve Jobs your shares wouldn't be worth a penny. Apple would have simply moved into nonexistence in mid 90ties. Why don't you people think a second, before posting such nonsense?
  • Reply 75 of 110
    successsuccess Posts: 1,040member
    Quote:

    Apple Retail tells employees something big is on the way



    ->>>>>
    Quote:

    iPhone 4 recall could cost Apple $1.5 billion



  • Reply 76 of 110
    aquia33aquia33 Posts: 70member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


    I agree with above comments and has a shareholder as well, I am little annoyed by Apple's approach to this issue and if this hurts the stock because Steve does not know that "acting like Microsoft in late 80s early 90s" does not work, then he must know, pissing off shareholders is not good situation to be in,if this really affects the stock and overall dividends!



    All "real" shareholders know that Apple has not paid dividends since 1995. Try trolling using facts.
  • Reply 77 of 110
    pridonpridon Posts: 81member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    A recall of the iPhone 4 could cost Apple as much as $1.5 billion, according to one investment research firm.



    Toni Sacconaghi, an analyst for Bernstein Research, said in a note to clients on Tuesday that while a full product recall is "highly unlikely," it could theoretically cost the company up to $250 per phone. Sacconaghi estimates 6 million units sold or in transit, resulting in a recall price tag as high as $1.5 billion.



    Another option is for Apple to offer an in-store hardware fix, which could cost $75 per phone. Giving away a free bumper case, which currently retail for $29, would be a much cheaper alternative for the Cupertino, Calif., company. Sacconaghi estimates this approach would cost just $1 per unit.



    Examining the longer-term consequences for Apple, Sacconaghi turned to "the emerging pattern of hubris that the company has displayed, which has increasingly pitted competitors (and regulators) against the company, and risks alienating customers over time."



    As some examples, the analyst noted Apple's "limited disclosure practices, its attack on Adobe's Flash, its investigation into its lost iPhone prototype (which culminated in a reporter's home being searched while he was away and computers being removed), its restrictions on app development, and its ostensibly dismissive characterizations of the iPhone's antenna issues (i.e., phone needs to be held a different way; a software issue that affects the number of bars displayed)."



    Sacconaghi further speculates that "these issues may, over time, begin to impact consumers' perceptions of Apple, undermining its enormous prevailing commercial success."



    The report arrives just a day after Consumer Reports -- the nation's largest and most trusted nonprofit product review organization -- warned that it could no longer recommend the iPhone 4. After conducting its own tests inside a radio frequency isolation chamber, the organization issued a statement on its blog reversing its previous recommendation of the phone.



    For its part, Apple earlier this month released an open letter stating that the iPhone 4's reception issues were largely due to an inaccurate formula for calculating signal strength. The company assured that a free software fix would be available in the coming weeks. Consumer Reports' findings are in opposition to Apple's statement.



    Another Wall Street analyst, Gene Munster with Piper Jaffray, estimated Tuesday that a fix from Apple could impact its operating income by 1 percent. Like Sacconaghi, Munster also suggested the possibility of issuing free bumper cases. Additionally, the analyst said that since only 25 percent of users are affected by the issue, the company could "weather the storm" by doing nothing.



    Apple stock was down $5.49 (2.13%) at the market's close on Tuesday.



    Seems like Apple is the new BP. CNBS can't get a word in edgewise without bringing up the iPhone. Re the great CS test, seems like they were using a weak signal.
  • Reply 78 of 110
    irelandireland Posts: 17,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLoveStuff View Post


    A free bumper with your iPhone4 and be done with it!!!



    The 25% it affects don't like to use cases, so a free Bumper - which some argue is an ugly case - is no solution at all.
  • Reply 79 of 110
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Only a fool would ignore the seriousness of the iPhone 4 antenna and reception issues. Deleting message threads mentionning the Consumer Report article is childish and definitely not the leadership that iPhone buyers are expecting.



    Apple deleted them because it was a support forum and no one was there for support - it was just another whine-fest. Why should Apple let its legitimate support get crowded out by incessant, useless whining (much of it stirred up by the competition, no doubt).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iBill View Post


    Stock manipulation anyone?



    No, just a feeding frenzy fed by HTC, Google, RIM, and the inveterate Apple-haters.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shadash View Post


    If you go to cnn.com right now the headline is: iPhone 4 can be fixed with duct tape. This is well beyond Apple's competitors and a few discontented bloggers.



    These stories do take on a life of their own - and then they disappear when reality eventually hits.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vince_JT View Post


    And what good is any improved antenna and reception if the signal can degrade more than any of the other handset in there test... from just holding it? Did you even read the full report or just the bit that you wanted to read?



    Did YOU read the full report - or just the bit you wanted to read? Both CR and Anand's tests show that, EVEN WITH THE SIGNAL DEGRADATION, the phone reception is better than the competition. In fact, it's funny to see people citing CR as a valid source for their complaints - yet CR rated the iPhone 4 as the best phone on the market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vince_JT View Post


    PS: if the antenna is so improved, then why use a case? You don't need it. Take it off and hold it normally, preferably in your left hand.



    Because 'best' doesn't mean that it can't be even better. Not to mention, of course, that some people use cases to protect their significant investment.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shadash View Post


    I don't think it was arrogant and asinine as much as not well thought out. When Jobs (or one of his minions behind the scenes) wrote that, no one - including Jobs - know how big of a deal this would turn out to be.



    I wouldn't say it wasn't well thought out, I think your second sentence is closer to the truth. Their tests showed that the phone worked very well - later confirmed by Anand and CR, so their tests weren't wrong. Either they didn't see the problem - because you really do have to hold the phone unnaturally to experience it - or they figured that simply shifting your finger a few mm was such a minor issue that no one in their right mind would care.



    If they underestimated anything, it's that they are such a divisive company. While a lot of their customers love their products, there is also a big cloud of people out there who absolutely hate Apple and everything they do - and who will stop at nothing to stir up trouble. Last spring, it was all the Flash 'developers' - and that whining has finally died down (thank goodnesss). Now, it's the Android shills. That will die down, too.
  • Reply 80 of 110
    nkhmnkhm Posts: 928member
    They're not having mine back - it works perfectly... No issues here (or for anyone else I know who owns one, except one that literally died after a week, replaced no questions asked, with apology and free bumper at the apple store.
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