I'm still waiting for you to give us details on the mystery survey you keep presenting. You are the one trying to present evidence. It's up to you to prove your point. But I see that you can't prove it. You want to shift the burden of proving your own flawed evidence to someone else. Your evidence is completely useless without details. Evidence without details is the same as NO evidence. So go ahead and keep giving us flawed, mindless, empty charts that prove nothing. Lol. I realize you don't like the truth about the flawed iPhone. But giving us flawed evidence to poorly attempt to prove your point is not the way to do it. Try to find some real evidence next time. And I find it funny you keep using the word whiner, because *you* are one of the biggest whiners on this forum.
Look the survey up yourself. I'm not going to take the time because you'll just ignore it.
The facts are simple. You claim the iPhone is horribly defective and that the problem is widespread.
You've been asked "if it's so defective, why aren't people returning it in droves?" There are no lines at the Apple Store returning the phone, nor are there any reports of significant returns.
Then, Fortune publishes a survey by BMO showing that the number of returns is trivial. Consider it anecdotal evidence if you wish. Consider it non-evidence if you wish. That's all irrelevant. Where is the evidence that the number of returns is significant? Even here - where the whiners all seem to congregate - hardly anyone is talking about returning their phone.
Clearly, the 'problem' is blown way out of proportion and the majority of customers are happy with their iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple
I have noticed your whiny posts for weeks now on numerous threads. Your constant whining and badgering is getting really old now. Everyone here knows what you will say as soon as they see your username show up - same old whiny crap. Get something new to discuss and stop repeating yourself over and over. You never bring anything intelligent to add to the discussion, because you are so busy whining. Come back after you gather your thoughts, or not.
And, yet, I don't see a single logical refutation of any point I've made in your posts. Look up 'ad hominem attack'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaBou
On Friday, if Apple were to acknowledge the design issue has disappointed too many of its customers, whether the problem is considered minor or serious, I think for the sake of the brand image, a full refund to dissatisfied owners should be offered.
They've already done that. Anyone dissatisfied with their iPhone can return it for a full refund.
Amazing how people who want to bash Apple can't even bother to get their basic facts right.
How is a damaged AC condenser a cosmetic issue? Do you like making cheese in your crotch on a hot day?
Of course. A hole in your AC compressor is a trivial cosmetic issue, but the need to move your finger 2 mm when you're holding your iPhone is a critical, life and death issue.
OMG! What a bunch of whiners the human race has become. Return. The. Damn. Phone. Or STFU.
I got myself Honda Fit recently. In my research I found that that road debris can find its way past the lower grill, strike The AC condenser, and damage it. A few people reported needing to replace their condensers at very low mileage to the tune of $800. Honda has not acknowledged the problem, has not offered any fix, and are not redesigning the grill. Nowhere in car mags do you read about this and the car is constantly rated near the very top of any review.
Well, the Fit is one bitchin' car and I don't want another so I bought it anyway. I got myself some gutter guard mesh and spent 2 hours installing it behind the grill with zip ties. I love this car and I am not going to let a little thing spoil the fun. After about 10 years, I will most likely buy another Honda because, I am a fanboy. Just like Apple, I have found that they make products superior to the competition. Expecting perfection is a losing proposition and leads to misery.
Really, you are a marketer's wet dream. Imagine a consumer who will ignore all faults, as long as you can make them love your product. This is specifically, why some companies push so hard to become 'lifestyle brands'. Few have been successful. Some have been very successful. VW and Honda are both lifestyle brands in the auto industry. Sony used to be in the CE market, but has been replaced by Apple. Previously, Apple was the lifestyle brand for computers. You are buying more that the product and more than the brand.
Buying into the while lifestyle brand is fine. I have been a long time Apple user. I have two Hondas in my driveway (used to be a VW guy). I get the whole brand connection thing. You are right. if you don't like something, don't buy it. If you know of a problem that is too much of a problem for you, then don't buy it. The upside for a lifestyle brand is that their customers are so much more likely to ignore problems in order to buy from that brand.
But, one thing to keep in mind before you tell everyone discussing this issue to just STFU: not everyone is willing to fix the product for the company (as you did with your zip ties). Some still want to buy the product but want the company to fix the problem or even acknowledge it.
Of course. A hole in your AC compressor is a trivial cosmetic issue, but the need to move your finger 2 mm when you're holding your iPhone is a critical, life and death issue.
Enough with the strawmen. No one has ever said such exaggerated statements about the antenna issues.
Look the survey up yourself. I'm not going to take the time because you'll just ignore it.
The facts are simple. You claim the iPhone is horribly defective and that the problem is widespread.
You've been asked "if it's so defective, why aren't people returning it in droves?" There are no lines at the Apple Store returning the phone, nor are there any reports of significant returns.
Then, Fortune publishes a survey by BMO showing that the number of returns is trivial. Consider it anecdotal evidence if you wish. Consider it non-evidence if you wish. That's all irrelevant. Where is the evidence that the number of returns is significant? Even here - where the whiners all seem to congregate - hardly anyone is talking about returning their phone.
Clearly, the 'problem' is blown way out of proportion and the majority of customers are happy with their iPhone.
Which is why claims to use the return rate as an indicator of the problem are worthless (beyond merits of the survey itself). You many here has asserted, the problem(s) are experienced by different people in varying degrees.
Even if every phone was susceptible to the problem, there are many reasons people wouldn't return them. Most people might never notice the problem(s), even the bars display issue (how many normal people are looking at their bars while talking?). If they do have signal problems, the last three years have rightfully conditioned most people to assume it is a problem with AT&T's network. Others might reside and work in areas with such strong signals that they haven't had the problem(s) cause issues for them yet. Others might have decided to simply buy a bumper. Some might be waiting to see what Apple has in store as a fix/workaround. Others might have decided that they will consciously note and adjust their behavior to avoid the issues when using the phone.
Lots of reasons for a low return rate to be meaningless at this point, even if the problem is inherent in every single unit sold to date (especially given that, aside from the antenna issue, it is clearly a fantastic, superior device). So why even bring it up as though it actually supports a position?
Now, the negative press this is generating (especially the seemingly lack of response from Apple) is potentially hurting potential sales. For myself, I will very likely end up buying one when available, regardless of the outcome, but I would be foolish not to be observing the conversations and Apple's responses before making my decision.
•We've heard our customers, and while we think the iPhone 4 is our best yet, we've redesigned the antenna
•Go into any Apple store and trade in your phone for the revised model
•Apple will collect the 2+ million phones and rework them with the new design
•these "reworked" phones will be used as the supply of refurbs on hand to give to customers with problematic phones as replacements
Apple is going to need a supply of refurb/replacement phones anyway. While it may be expensive to recall, there is an investment overlap with replacement phones and reputation repair that would take some of the sting out of a huge recall such as this. Just a thought, anyway.
Is it a dumb ass mistake that you quoted him wrong? He never said that.
Let's be generous and say that Jobs was not implying that the phone was being held wrong when the bars dropped. Does that mean the bars dropped when held correctly?
his whole debacle shows off Apple's achilles heel. They make superior products because they are a superior company full of superior human beings, but as a result, they just don't get how regular folks think sometimes.
That the product has a design flaw has nothing to do with how anyone outside Apple thinks, either the normal or the superior - as you call them.
A whole event to address the iPhone reception problem. Seems fishy. Something else is up. They could simply do a press release and be done with it. They'll announce something else. This isn't a one pony show.
I don't know. They want an event to attempt to control the way this pans out in the media. And the iPhone is the most important revenue earner for them.
I almost bet that the answer that Apple is gonna give friday will *not* be a good answer. It won't satisfy the heat.
That's my worry too. Not in terms of Apple getting the heat; they deserve that. Rather though in terms of them fixing the phone on a hardware level like they should, 'cause I want to purchase a fixed one.
It has come to our attention that in a weak signal area - where previously you might get no signal - you might get a dropped call if you are not using a case for your iPhone and happen to place your hand over the antenna in a certain way. Or you might not. In this instance, as a gesture of goodwill we will be giving vouchers to those who are concerned about this issue so they can buy a case of their choosing from any Apple Store. Now be grateful and shut the f**k up about antenna attenuation.
And the media, in that case, will say Apple still refuses to acknowledge and fix the issue. And press gets worse. What are suggesting they do is not intelligent for them.
should first work as a phone better. Now from Bloomberg:uly 15 (Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc.?s senior antenna expert voiced concern to Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs in the early design phase of the iPhone 4 that the antenna design could lead to dropped calls, a person familiar with the matter said.
Last year, Ruben Caballero, a senior engineer and antenna expert, informed Apple?s management the device?s design may cause reception problems, said the person, who is not authorized to speak on Apple?s behalf and asked not to be identified. A carrier partner also raised concerns about the antenna before the device?s June 24 release, according to another person familiar with the situation.
this is my 4th iphone and none of the others had cases. i don't want to cover up my phone or make it more bulky. right now i have 6 pieces of scotch tape layered over one another to cover up the seam, but it's not an elegant solution at all.
for those of you who say it's a non-issue or that there is no reception problem: 42 of the 42 people i know with an iPhone 4 have this issue. i can stand 4 feet in front of my microcell and go from full signal to no service in about a minute and a half just by holding the phone in my hand the way anyone would ever hold any phone to talk on it.
Comments
I'm still waiting for you to give us details on the mystery survey you keep presenting. You are the one trying to present evidence. It's up to you to prove your point. But I see that you can't prove it. You want to shift the burden of proving your own flawed evidence to someone else. Your evidence is completely useless without details. Evidence without details is the same as NO evidence. So go ahead and keep giving us flawed, mindless, empty charts that prove nothing. Lol. I realize you don't like the truth about the flawed iPhone. But giving us flawed evidence to poorly attempt to prove your point is not the way to do it. Try to find some real evidence next time. And I find it funny you keep using the word whiner, because *you* are one of the biggest whiners on this forum.
Look the survey up yourself. I'm not going to take the time because you'll just ignore it.
The facts are simple. You claim the iPhone is horribly defective and that the problem is widespread.
You've been asked "if it's so defective, why aren't people returning it in droves?" There are no lines at the Apple Store returning the phone, nor are there any reports of significant returns.
Then, Fortune publishes a survey by BMO showing that the number of returns is trivial. Consider it anecdotal evidence if you wish. Consider it non-evidence if you wish. That's all irrelevant. Where is the evidence that the number of returns is significant? Even here - where the whiners all seem to congregate - hardly anyone is talking about returning their phone.
Clearly, the 'problem' is blown way out of proportion and the majority of customers are happy with their iPhone.
I have noticed your whiny posts for weeks now on numerous threads. Your constant whining and badgering is getting really old now. Everyone here knows what you will say as soon as they see your username show up - same old whiny crap. Get something new to discuss and stop repeating yourself over and over. You never bring anything intelligent to add to the discussion, because you are so busy whining. Come back after you gather your thoughts, or not.
And, yet, I don't see a single logical refutation of any point I've made in your posts. Look up 'ad hominem attack'.
On Friday, if Apple were to acknowledge the design issue has disappointed too many of its customers, whether the problem is considered minor or serious, I think for the sake of the brand image, a full refund to dissatisfied owners should be offered.
They've already done that. Anyone dissatisfied with their iPhone can return it for a full refund.
Amazing how people who want to bash Apple can't even bother to get their basic facts right.
How is a damaged AC condenser a cosmetic issue? Do you like making cheese in your crotch on a hot day?
Of course. A hole in your AC compressor is a trivial cosmetic issue, but the need to move your finger 2 mm when you're holding your iPhone is a critical, life and death issue.
OMG! What a bunch of whiners the human race has become. Return. The. Damn. Phone. Or STFU.
I got myself Honda Fit recently. In my research I found that that road debris can find its way past the lower grill, strike The AC condenser, and damage it. A few people reported needing to replace their condensers at very low mileage to the tune of $800. Honda has not acknowledged the problem, has not offered any fix, and are not redesigning the grill. Nowhere in car mags do you read about this and the car is constantly rated near the very top of any review.
Well, the Fit is one bitchin' car and I don't want another so I bought it anyway. I got myself some gutter guard mesh and spent 2 hours installing it behind the grill with zip ties. I love this car and I am not going to let a little thing spoil the fun. After about 10 years, I will most likely buy another Honda because, I am a fanboy. Just like Apple, I have found that they make products superior to the competition. Expecting perfection is a losing proposition and leads to misery.
Really, you are a marketer's wet dream. Imagine a consumer who will ignore all faults, as long as you can make them love your product. This is specifically, why some companies push so hard to become 'lifestyle brands'. Few have been successful. Some have been very successful. VW and Honda are both lifestyle brands in the auto industry. Sony used to be in the CE market, but has been replaced by Apple. Previously, Apple was the lifestyle brand for computers. You are buying more that the product and more than the brand.
Buying into the while lifestyle brand is fine. I have been a long time Apple user. I have two Hondas in my driveway (used to be a VW guy). I get the whole brand connection thing. You are right. if you don't like something, don't buy it. If you know of a problem that is too much of a problem for you, then don't buy it. The upside for a lifestyle brand is that their customers are so much more likely to ignore problems in order to buy from that brand.
But, one thing to keep in mind before you tell everyone discussing this issue to just STFU: not everyone is willing to fix the product for the company (as you did with your zip ties). Some still want to buy the product but want the company to fix the problem or even acknowledge it.
Of course. A hole in your AC compressor is a trivial cosmetic issue, but the need to move your finger 2 mm when you're holding your iPhone is a critical, life and death issue.
Enough with the strawmen. No one has ever said such exaggerated statements about the antenna issues.
Look the survey up yourself. I'm not going to take the time because you'll just ignore it.
The facts are simple. You claim the iPhone is horribly defective and that the problem is widespread.
You've been asked "if it's so defective, why aren't people returning it in droves?" There are no lines at the Apple Store returning the phone, nor are there any reports of significant returns.
Then, Fortune publishes a survey by BMO showing that the number of returns is trivial. Consider it anecdotal evidence if you wish. Consider it non-evidence if you wish. That's all irrelevant. Where is the evidence that the number of returns is significant? Even here - where the whiners all seem to congregate - hardly anyone is talking about returning their phone.
Clearly, the 'problem' is blown way out of proportion and the majority of customers are happy with their iPhone.
Which is why claims to use the return rate as an indicator of the problem are worthless (beyond merits of the survey itself). You many here has asserted, the problem(s) are experienced by different people in varying degrees.
Even if every phone was susceptible to the problem, there are many reasons people wouldn't return them. Most people might never notice the problem(s), even the bars display issue (how many normal people are looking at their bars while talking?). If they do have signal problems, the last three years have rightfully conditioned most people to assume it is a problem with AT&T's network. Others might reside and work in areas with such strong signals that they haven't had the problem(s) cause issues for them yet. Others might have decided to simply buy a bumper. Some might be waiting to see what Apple has in store as a fix/workaround. Others might have decided that they will consciously note and adjust their behavior to avoid the issues when using the phone.
Lots of reasons for a low return rate to be meaningless at this point, even if the problem is inherent in every single unit sold to date (especially given that, aside from the antenna issue, it is clearly a fantastic, superior device). So why even bring it up as though it actually supports a position?
Now, the negative press this is generating (especially the seemingly lack of response from Apple) is potentially hurting potential sales. For myself, I will very likely end up buying one when available, regardless of the outcome, but I would be foolish not to be observing the conversations and Apple's responses before making my decision.
•We've heard our customers, and while we think the iPhone 4 is our best yet, we've redesigned the antenna
•Go into any Apple store and trade in your phone for the revised model
•Apple will collect the 2+ million phones and rework them with the new design
•these "reworked" phones will be used as the supply of refurbs on hand to give to customers with problematic phones as replacements
Apple is going to need a supply of refurb/replacement phones anyway. While it may be expensive to recall, there is an investment overlap with replacement phones and reputation repair that would take some of the sting out of a huge recall such as this. Just a thought, anyway.
Is it a dumb ass mistake that you quoted him wrong? He never said that.
Let's be generous and say that Jobs was not implying that the phone was being held wrong when the bars dropped. Does that mean the bars dropped when held correctly?
Even here - where the whiners all seem to congregate - hardly anyone is talking about returning their phone.
This is because the majority of the whiners don't actually own the phone...
his whole debacle shows off Apple's achilles heel. They make superior products because they are a superior company full of superior human beings, but as a result, they just don't get how regular folks think sometimes.
That the product has a design flaw has nothing to do with how anyone outside Apple thinks, either the normal or the superior - as you call them.
"You're holding it wrong" is a MISQUOTE.
What he said was this: "Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way."
Wow, because that's way different. Different words, same result of meaning.
A whole event to address the iPhone reception problem. Seems fishy. Something else is up. They could simply do a press release and be done with it. They'll announce something else. This isn't a one pony show.
I don't know. They want an event to attempt to control the way this pans out in the media. And the iPhone is the most important revenue earner for them.
This is bad.
Very bad.
I almost bet that the answer that Apple is gonna give friday will *not* be a good answer. It won't satisfy the heat.
That's my worry too. Not in terms of Apple getting the heat; they deserve that. Rather though in terms of them fixing the phone on a hardware level like they should, 'cause I want to purchase a fixed one.
What Apple should say:
It has come to our attention that in a weak signal area - where previously you might get no signal - you might get a dropped call if you are not using a case for your iPhone and happen to place your hand over the antenna in a certain way. Or you might not. In this instance, as a gesture of goodwill we will be giving vouchers to those who are concerned about this issue so they can buy a case of their choosing from any Apple Store. Now be grateful and shut the f**k up about antenna attenuation.
And the media, in that case, will say Apple still refuses to acknowledge and fix the issue. And press gets worse. What are suggesting they do is not intelligent for them.
We're doing a total recall. No wait, Schwarzenegger already did that.........................................1868 (14.8%)
You're holding the damned phone wrong. Let me show you how it's done.........................................1837 (14.6%)
Hey, Microsoft - at least iPhone 4 doesn't suck as bad as Windows Vista!......................................476 (3.8%)
Bumpers for everybody, baby!............................................. ....................................6153 (48.8%)
The special Michael Jackson memorial edition iPhone 4 glove is now available for $29.99 at all Apple Stores...593 (4.7%)
We're giving you a voucher for a free Bluetooth headset. Wait, that doesn't work, either......................146 (1.2%)
We're buying The Unofficial Apple Weblog so they'll stop creating trouble for us..............................360 (2.9%)
We will coat all your hands in lard!............................................. .............................443 (3.5%)
Other - leave us your ideas in the comments below............................................. ................728 (5.8%)
Only to trolls like you. iPhone 4 is absolutely PERFECT.
Let's see if Apple agrees.
Apple to hold iPhone 4 press conference on Friday
Well done, Apple. It's all about the "HOLD" thing...
Here, fixed:
Apple to hold iPhone 4; press conference on Friday.
OMG! What a bunch of whiners the human race has become. Return. The. Damn. Phone. Or STFU.
The human race? A bit melodramatic, eh? You do know telling people to STFU is a form of whining, right?
Last year, Ruben Caballero, a senior engineer and antenna expert, informed Apple?s management the device?s design may cause reception problems, said the person, who is not authorized to speak on Apple?s behalf and asked not to be identified. A carrier partner also raised concerns about the antenna before the device?s June 24 release, according to another person familiar with the situation.
for those of you who say it's a non-issue or that there is no reception problem: 42 of the 42 people i know with an iPhone 4 have this issue. i can stand 4 feet in front of my microcell and go from full signal to no service in about a minute and a half just by holding the phone in my hand the way anyone would ever hold any phone to talk on it.