Can you supply me with data that proves that people are purchasing netbooks at the volume and rate that the iPad seems to be slip-sliding out of the brick and mortar stores and from the e-tailers worldwide (as far as Apple has released the iPad)?
Stats please..
I have yet to find a 7 to 10 day wait, much less 2 weeks for a "real computer/netbook". Maybe it is because there is so much stock available - for some reason.
Just the facts, please.
I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.
I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.
If you want specifics... look them up yourself.
You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.
I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.
But I do find your logic incongruous.
Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?
If it does, please enlighten me.
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .
- Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizuInOz
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
maybe the two of you should get rulers out and compare those measurements too!
Seriously, can we have a vacation from writing the spec's of our penises, I mean, computers and hardware. Nobody cares how much stuff you own. and to call it out by name and specification is just plain smug!
The irony is that with all the effort and money Google is putting into Android, no one is making money off it.
The only people who are making money off Android are:
1) A few developers
2) HTC
3) Microsoft (HTC pays them to use Android to avoid patent issues)
Google will probably end up losing more money since Android users were probably going to buy phones which used Google search otherwise anyways (Blackberry, iPhone) and they have encouraged Apple, which sells the most popular mobile smartphone in the world, to start looking outside the Google world. Hence the addition of Bing as an option (won't be too long before Bing or Yahoo becomes the default) and purchase of multiple Map vendors, etc.
Apple, on the other hand, has created a vibrant ecosystem where a lot of developers, and accessory makers are being able to make a good sustainable living.
Finally, I find developers' stances on Android Marketplace vs. the App Store quite interesting. They keep hating on the App Store, while ignoring the fact that its Apple's tight control (although, admittedly, inconsistent, something they need to fix) that allows them to be compensated for their efforts. On Android, OTOH, its very easy for someone to rip off their ideasand createa copycat app. While this also happens on the App Store, its not as prevalent. Worse, however, is the ease and frequency with which Android users pirate apps. The only way you can do this on the iPhone is through jailbreaking, which form a very minor proportion of users.
I suspect the carriers make a healthy profit as well.
Nonsense... The iPhone and the iPod Touch's price dropped precipitously (for the same capacities) after the first generation, as will the iPad.
In the 'real world' US 500.00 for a device of such paltry capacity (16gb), and that can't really function as an autonomous computing device (as all netbooks and bargain notebooks can) is a highly questionable investment.
For the iPhone at least, any price drops were probably due strictly to carrier subisidizing. We as consumers may pay less for the current iPhone than the first generation, but that doesn't mean Apple gets paid any less.
That's just a list of specs. iPad does everything better than a netbook.
No, it doesn't. For starters, even with the smaller keyboard on netbooks, typing is going to be much easier than on the iPad's virtual keyboard. This is somewhat mitigated by wireless keyboards, etc., but adding one makes it much less portable. Now your'e carring two devices.
And let's not get into Adobe's Flash support. If Flash is important to you, netbooks can display it. The iPad can't/won't.
And yet they claim that the iPhone has Doomed Apple!
That's most likely why the concerted effort to have the general populous believe iPhone 4 is a failure. Every person with a vested interest in another make is blogging about the reception issues even if they never touched an iPhone. They are in desperation mode and these numbers show why.
You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.
I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.
But I do find your logic incongruous.
Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?
If it does, please enlighten me.
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .
I think what's important is not how Apple positions their product - iPad being a completely different device than any other, but how we as users perceive their products. To many, yes, the iPad competes directly with netbooks, etc.
I own an iPad and it is the most awesome thing that I own right now. Unfortunately for AAPL though, the Tablet market won't be close to the smartphone market in the near future if ever. While it's a nice revenue driver for the product, the long-term impact on bottom line for Apple won't be much.
That's a non sequitor. Apple have about 3% of the phone market and about 100% of the tablet market. At current price points, Apple can sell about 1M Macs per month and about 2M iPads. I'm guessing that in the current fiscal quarter, the iPad will generate more than 10% of Apple's profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.
Hmmm. Apple can sell 2M iPads per month at $500 and make a profit of about $125 each. Alternatively, Apple can sell perhaps 3M per month at $300 and make a loss of about $75 each.
There's one massive flaw with the losers sections of this article in that it suggests you will buy an iPad over a netbook. A lot of people buy netbooks because there cheap and that's all they can afford. To get the iPad they still need to buy the Netbook as well, as an iPad on it's owns useless. You still need a computer to go with it to put anything on it! If anything it will boost Netbooks as once you've spent £400 on an iPad your not going to spend another £1000 on a Mab Book, just go for the £200 Netbook.
I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.
An iPad with the right applications does not need a computer for anything other than making backups with iTunes.
You do back up your digital devices, don't you?
Apps can download data directly from the Internet and sync the results back if needed. If you read the news, you will see that Apple is readying two more smaller iPads which will obviously be cheaper too. I think they will drop these as soon as a few iPad wannabes are released by Microsoft or Android vendors. That should kill these competitors before they even have a chance to recoup their investment.
The premise of the main article I think is exceptionally accurate. I would not bet against Apple at this time.
And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.
There's one massive flaw with the losers sections of this article in that it suggests you will buy an iPad over a netbook. A lot of people buy netbooks because there cheap and that's all they can afford. To get the iPad they still need to buy the Netbook as well, as an iPad on it's owns useless. You still need a computer to go with it to put anything on it! If anything it will boost Netbooks as once you've spent £400 on an iPad your not going to spend another £1000 on a Mab Book, just go for the £200 Netbook.
I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.
Not so. I rarely connect my iPad to my Mac. Once a week, at most, and I use it every day.
- Like run any number of millions of applications (as well as widgets/apps) = NOT
Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household, so save the fanatical rhetoric.
Yes, netbooks do those things. And for the most part does them poorly or slowly. Netbook sales have fallen off a cliff this year, that is a multiply reported fact in business news. Why if it's so good a platform?
My unscientific guess is that those very cheap netbooks were exactly that. Cheap. In the fully pejorative sense of the word. Friends and family got tired of them because they ended up being wastes of money for the vast majority of consumers. I have tried them and found the form factor useless for anything resembling work, the rest my phone can do. I haven't bought an iPad yet, but most of my reservations should be addressed when iOS 4 ships for iPad. Zero chance that there is an OS or any kind of software update that will fix my reservations with netbooks.
And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.
The numbers are published by analysts and available on the open internet for anyone with a whit of ability to pick keywords. And while investment analysts absolutely suck at projecting business trends, they hire really good engineers to rip products apart and price the components. You can take it to the bank those estimates are within 10 percent of actual.
Comments
Can you supply me with data that proves that people are purchasing netbooks at the volume and rate that the iPad seems to be slip-sliding out of the brick and mortar stores and from the e-tailers worldwide (as far as Apple has released the iPad)?
Stats please..
I have yet to find a 7 to 10 day wait, much less 2 weeks for a "real computer/netbook". Maybe it is because there is so much stock available - for some reason.
Just the facts, please.
I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.
If you want specifics... look them up yourself.
That's just a list of specs. iPad does everything better than a netbook.
- Like video conference = NOT
- Like provide built-in media card reading = NOT
- Like muti-tasking = NOT
- Like store 100s of GBs of media/data/etc = NOT
- Like host other devices like iPods etc. = NOT
- Like run any number of millions of applications (as well as widgets/apps) = NOT
Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household, so save the fanatical rhetoric.
I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.
If you want specifics... look them up yourself.
You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.
I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.
But I do find your logic incongruous.
Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?
If it does, please enlighten me.
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .
- Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household...
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
maybe the two of you should get rulers out and compare those measurements too!
Seriously, can we have a vacation from writing the spec's of our penises, I mean, computers and hardware. Nobody cares how much stuff you own. and to call it out by name and specification is just plain smug!
But she doesn't wanna know
You tried so much to take her
But there's no way to go
I know that kind of feeling
Knocking on someone's door
I know the endless crying
When you don't know what you're living for
Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done
There is one way to show
What you feel for the girl
Write her a lovely letter
Tell her what you're looking for
Don't think it's old fashion
To take one's heart (when it's true)
You gotta take it as a man
When you can't win her in this game
Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done
There are losers and winners
Just like you and me
Losers and winners - just like you and me
You should give me the letter
I'll use it for my own (ha ha)
Maybe she wants to take me
Before she stays alone
Could be my destination
To pick up broken heart
Why don't you take it easy
And screw the girl who's next to you
Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done
There are losers and winners
Just like you and me
Losers and winners
Just like you and me
Losers and winners
The irony is that with all the effort and money Google is putting into Android, no one is making money off it.
The only people who are making money off Android are:
1) A few developers
2) HTC
3) Microsoft (HTC pays them to use Android to avoid patent issues)
Google will probably end up losing more money since Android users were probably going to buy phones which used Google search otherwise anyways (Blackberry, iPhone) and they have encouraged Apple, which sells the most popular mobile smartphone in the world, to start looking outside the Google world. Hence the addition of Bing as an option (won't be too long before Bing or Yahoo becomes the default) and purchase of multiple Map vendors, etc.
Apple, on the other hand, has created a vibrant ecosystem where a lot of developers, and accessory makers are being able to make a good sustainable living.
Finally, I find developers' stances on Android Marketplace vs. the App Store quite interesting. They keep hating on the App Store, while ignoring the fact that its Apple's tight control (although, admittedly, inconsistent, something they need to fix) that allows them to be compensated for their efforts. On Android, OTOH, its very easy for someone to rip off their ideasand createa copycat app. While this also happens on the App Store, its not as prevalent. Worse, however, is the ease and frequency with which Android users pirate apps. The only way you can do this on the iPhone is through jailbreaking, which form a very minor proportion of users.
I suspect the carriers make a healthy profit as well.
Nonsense... The iPhone and the iPod Touch's price dropped precipitously (for the same capacities) after the first generation, as will the iPad.
In the 'real world' US 500.00 for a device of such paltry capacity (16gb), and that can't really function as an autonomous computing device (as all netbooks and bargain notebooks can) is a highly questionable investment.
For the iPhone at least, any price drops were probably due strictly to carrier subisidizing. We as consumers may pay less for the current iPhone than the first generation, but that doesn't mean Apple gets paid any less.
That's just a list of specs. iPad does everything better than a netbook.
No, it doesn't. For starters, even with the smaller keyboard on netbooks, typing is going to be much easier than on the iPad's virtual keyboard. This is somewhat mitigated by wireless keyboards, etc., but adding one makes it much less portable. Now your'e carring two devices.
And let's not get into Adobe's Flash support. If Flash is important to you, netbooks can display it. The iPad can't/won't.
That said, I own an iPad, not a netbook.
And yet they claim that the iPhone has Doomed Apple!
That's most likely why the concerted effort to have the general populous believe iPhone 4 is a failure. Every person with a vested interest in another make is blogging about the reception issues even if they never touched an iPhone. They are in desperation mode and these numbers show why.
You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.
I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.
But I do find your logic incongruous.
Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?
If it does, please enlighten me.
And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G
I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.
(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .
I think what's important is not how Apple positions their product - iPad being a completely different device than any other, but how we as users perceive their products. To many, yes, the iPad competes directly with netbooks, etc.
I own an iPad and it is the most awesome thing that I own right now. Unfortunately for AAPL though, the Tablet market won't be close to the smartphone market in the near future if ever. While it's a nice revenue driver for the product, the long-term impact on bottom line for Apple won't be much.
That's a non sequitor. Apple have about 3% of the phone market and about 100% of the tablet market. At current price points, Apple can sell about 1M Macs per month and about 2M iPads. I'm guessing that in the current fiscal quarter, the iPad will generate more than 10% of Apple's profits.
Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.
Hmmm. Apple can sell 2M iPads per month at $500 and make a profit of about $125 each. Alternatively, Apple can sell perhaps 3M per month at $300 and make a loss of about $75 each.
I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.
The profit on an iPad is about $200 per unit.
In terms of earnings, consumers have to buy more than ten netbooks to match a single iPad purchase.
C.
You do back up your digital devices, don't you?
Apps can download data directly from the Internet and sync the results back if needed. If you read the news, you will see that Apple is readying two more smaller iPads which will obviously be cheaper too. I think they will drop these as soon as a few iPad wannabes are released by Microsoft or Android vendors. That should kill these competitors before they even have a chance to recoup their investment.
The premise of the main article I think is exceptionally accurate. I would not bet against Apple at this time.
The profit on a HP netbook is about $15 per unit.
The profit on an iPad is about $200 per unit.
And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.
There's one massive flaw with the losers sections of this article in that it suggests you will buy an iPad over a netbook. A lot of people buy netbooks because there cheap and that's all they can afford. To get the iPad they still need to buy the Netbook as well, as an iPad on it's owns useless. You still need a computer to go with it to put anything on it! If anything it will boost Netbooks as once you've spent £400 on an iPad your not going to spend another £1000 on a Mab Book, just go for the £200 Netbook.
I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.
Not so. I rarely connect my iPad to my Mac. Once a week, at most, and I use it every day.
- Like video conference = NOT
- Like provide built-in media card reading = NOT
- Like muti-tasking = NOT
- Like store 100s of GBs of media/data/etc = NOT
- Like host other devices like iPods etc. = NOT
- Like run any number of millions of applications (as well as widgets/apps) = NOT
Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household, so save the fanatical rhetoric.
Yes, netbooks do those things. And for the most part does them poorly or slowly. Netbook sales have fallen off a cliff this year, that is a multiply reported fact in business news. Why if it's so good a platform?
My unscientific guess is that those very cheap netbooks were exactly that. Cheap. In the fully pejorative sense of the word. Friends and family got tired of them because they ended up being wastes of money for the vast majority of consumers. I have tried them and found the form factor useless for anything resembling work, the rest my phone can do. I haven't bought an iPad yet, but most of my reservations should be addressed when iOS 4 ships for iPad. Zero chance that there is an OS or any kind of software update that will fix my reservations with netbooks.
And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.
The numbers are published by analysts and available on the open internet for anyone with a whit of ability to pick keywords. And while investment analysts absolutely suck at projecting business trends, they hire really good engineers to rip products apart and price the components. You can take it to the bank those estimates are within 10 percent of actual.