FTC believed to be investigating Apple's anti-Flash stance

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  • Reply 341 of 348
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,578member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    No only the platforms they wish to support. Like iTunes. Linux users decided to use that OS knowing full well that iTunes and Flash and QuickTime and lots of other stuff will not be available.



    iTunes is not the web, it's a software product intended to support Apple's iDevices. But, your comment simply reinforces my point, and weakens yours. A closed proprietary technology like Flash has no place as part of the web.



    Quote:

    ... Until someone comes up with a suitable replacement to the functionality that Flash offers, a web minus Flash would be much less interesting. ...



    Well, I don't see how since, as we've seen from the examples of "Top Flash Sites" that have been posted to this thread that a) they really aren't all that interesting, and b) they aren't really very functional. A web without Flash can only become more interesting, freed from the bad site design that Flash seems to encourage.
  • Reply 342 of 348
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    iTunes is not the web, it's a software product intended to support Apple's iDevices. But, your comment simply reinforces my point, and weakens yours. A closed proprietary technology like Flash has no place as part of the web.



    You obviously have a very exclusionary concept of what is and is not the web. I think anyone should be able to publish anything they want in any format and let the end users decide if it is part of the web or not. You are free to use whatever technology you like, just like everyone else. I happen to think hip hop and rap are not part of music but that is just my opinion, others are free to enjoy whatever they like. If a car playing that kind of music pulls up next to me, I'm annoyed, but I don't organize a lynching party and go after them.
  • Reply 343 of 348
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,578member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You obviously have a very exclusionary concept of what is and is not the web. I think anyone should be able to publish anything they want in any format and let the end users decide if it is part of the web or not. You are free to use whatever technology you like, just like everyone else. I happen to think hip hop and rap are not part of music but that is just my opinion, others are free to enjoy whatever they like. If a car playing that kind of music pulls up next to me, I'm annoyed, but I don't organize a lynching party and go after them.



    No, what I have is a very strong concept that the web ought not be privatized, and users cut off at the whim of controlling companies. Whether that's Adobe or Google/Verizon, it's an attack on the web, on the Internet, and, ultimately, on us. Open standards and net neutrality keep the web free and open. Flash keeps it under Adobe's thumb. If you like that fine, but many of us have a different vision.
  • Reply 344 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Or, the Mac has been the one thing that has kept Adobe alive, over the years, depending on how you look at it.



    oh I doubt that very much. As designers we loved and used the industry standards photoshop and illustrator. And as creatives we also preferred to use those tools, on a mac. But at the end of the day, it was photoshop and illustrator we used to produce our work. If apple went belly up which they came very close to doing, we all would have continued to use photoshop and illustrator on windows if that were the case. We wouldn't have loved it, but life goes on. So no, apple didn't keep adobe alive at all, that's utter nonsense. Most definitely, the other way round.



    At that time it was adobe, and macromedia, two very different companies, with different attitudes. I preferred adobe of that period. I never had much like for macromedia.



    Maybe that's the adobe Steve Jobs misses. I can't disagree there.



    oh, BTW, I HATED apple sooo much, that I renewed my iphone plan today and ordered the iphone4 32gb.



    I seig hieled and screamed down with steve jobs during the order to seal my hate. All while typing on my brand new i7 MBP tricked out.



    hate I do, hate.

  • Reply 345 of 348
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    No, what I have is a very strong concept that the web ought not be privatized, and users cut off at the whim of controlling companies. Whether that's Adobe or Google/Verizon, it's an attack on the web, on the Internet, and, ultimately, on us. Open standards and net neutrality keep the web free and open. Flash keeps it under Adobe's thumb. If you like that fine, but many of us have a different vision.







    So you are ok with Flash as long as it isn't on the web?



    No Flash on the web is an inconvenience to users.



    Flash does some very unique things that nothing else can do, and I for one do not want to give that up until a new equivalent technology is available. If HTML5/Canvas/SVG/Javascript is going to be the solution then fine, I'll wait for the IDE and then it might be a fair fight. Rolling your own integration of those technologies is not a viable method. Right now Flash has every other wannabe totally whipped.
  • Reply 346 of 348
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    oh I doubt that very much. As designers we loved and used the industry standards photoshop and illustrator. And as creatives we also preferred to use those tools, on a mac. ....





    Photoshop is an industry standard... Illustrator is most definitely NOT! Adobe was allowed to purchase Freehand under spurious circumstances... and killed it (effectively speaking, since they don't upgrade it). More vector designers actually LOVED Freehand much more so than Illustrator. I'm pretty safe in stating that as a fact. http://www.freefreehand.org/



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    So you are ok with Flash as long as it isn't on the web?



    No Flash on the web is an inconvenience to users.



    Flash does some very unique things that nothing else can do, and I for one do not want to give that up until a new equivalent technology is available. If HTML5/Canvas/SVG/Javascript is going to be the solution then fine, I'll wait for the IDE and then it might be a fair fight. Rolling your own integration of those technologies is not a viable method. Right now Flash has every other wannabe totally whipped.



    I'll leave that quote, and even agree with you, since there are no development tools that easily integrate all of the technologies into a usable, productive, designer-friendly program.



    However... just throwing something out there:



    What's stopping Adobe from creating an App like Flash Player for iOS? So that if there is something that you want to see that is in Flash, you can do so by clicking the container, and opening the App to do so.



    Why does it have to be a plug-in for a browser?



    Three pages back, was a listing of Flash Websites. Each "could" be opened in the Flash Player.



    I seriously don't think the experince with any of them would be very exciting, and I like the analogy of "I would rather have a root canal" to sum up my expectations quite well.



    So from that list of sites here... can any Android Froyo/10.1 Flash Beta using poster here, please report their experience? I'm curious... very curious.



    Even IF Flash were available for iOS... what is it that is so important that a majority of people need it for. My guess is simply video, which was debated for some 4-odd pages already. IMHO: video should be handled the same as static images, as a tag... meaning HTML5.



    Regardless of the codec, which more than likely if there comes the day where more than one is fighting for superiority, an App will be available, similar to the xvid app CineXPlayer recently released.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The reason it doesn't need to be open standards based is exactly for that reason, It creates APPLICATIONS, not web pages.



    Again: why has Adobe not created an actual App to run SWF applications? Why does Adobe insist on a Flash plug-in within the browser? The majority of the sites I reviewed above, are all self contained Apps. So if Apple doesn't want them on THEIR Store, why doesn't Adobe give their developers a platform/App to run them in?



    PS: I suppose I appear stupid in that (I think) SWF's are considered executables and the EULA specifically forbids Apps to run external code. HOWEVER... wouldn't it be easier for Adobe to approach this from this angle, rather than a plug-in? At the very least, it would be available as a Jailbreak App... as is Frash, which is an unauthorized hack I think. Then the market would decide if it's needed, or worth jailbreaking to get it.



    PSS: Any more info regarding Silverlight coming to iOS devices? There was some speculation a few months back.
  • Reply 347 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    Photoshop is an industry standard... Illustrator is most definitely NOT! Adobe was allowed to purchase Freehand under spurious circumstances... and killed it (effectively speaking, since they don't upgrade it). More vector designers actually LOVED Freehand much more so than Illustrator. I'm pretty safe in stating that as a fact. http://www.freefreehand.org/



    I am aware of that, though it was my peers who were using it not me. But I was just addressing the idea that apple apparently was adobe's lifeline.







    Quote:

    I'll leave that quote, and even agree with you, since there are no development tools that easily integrate all of the technologies into a usable, productive, designer-friendly program.



    However... just throwing something out there:



    What's stopping Adobe from creating an App like Flash Player for iOS? So that if there is something that you want to see that is in Flash, you can do so by clicking the container, and opening the App to do so.



    Why does it have to be a plug-in for a browser?



    Three pages back, was a listing of Flash Websites. Each "could" be opened in the Flash Player.



    I seriously don't think the experince with any of them would be very exciting, and I like the analogy of "I would rather have a root canal" to sum up my expectations quite well.



    So from that list of sites here... can any Android Froyo/10.1 Flash Beta using poster here, please report their experience? I'm curious... very curious.



    Even IF Flash were available for iOS... what is it that is so important that a majority of people need it for. My guess is simply video, which was debated for some 4-odd pages already. IMHO: video should be handled the same as static images, as a tag... meaning HTML5.



    Regardless of the codec, which more than likely if there comes the day where more than one is fighting for superiority, an App will be available, similar to the xvid app CineXPlayer recently released.





    Again: why has Adobe not created an actual App to run SWF applications? Why does Adobe insist on a Flash plug-in within the browser? The majority of the sites I reviewed above, are all self contained Apps. So if Apple doesn't want them on THEIR Store, why doesn't Adobe give their developers a platform/App to run them in?



    PS: I suppose I appear stupid in that (I think) SWF's are considered executables and the EULA specifically forbids Apps to run external code. HOWEVER... wouldn't it be easier for Adobe to approach this from this angle, rather than a plug-in? At the very least, it would be available as a Jailbreak App... as is Frash, which is an unauthorized hack I think. Then the market would decide if it's needed, or worth jailbreaking to get it.



    PSS: Any more info regarding Silverlight coming to iOS devices? There was some speculation a few months back.



    It's called adobe air.
  • Reply 348 of 348
    @ Groovetube - oh yes... how could I forget. However, it's still in Beta and hasn't been released, even though at the top of the blog http://blogs.adobe.com/air/2010/04/a...r_on_ipad.html , they state that it looks great.



    And as someone named Warren stated, and I would also like to know:



    "All I want to know is as a consumer (and not a developer) who wants to run an Air based app on an iPad, how am I going to be able to do this?



    Do I need to wait for the app developer to convert the app to run on the iPad, or is Adobe going to step up with either an app to run Air apps, or an end user converter?"



    OK. So maybe I should rephrase my question:



    When is Adobe going to release something to run Flash content, preferably that is not still in Beta.



    NOTE: There are some people that use Adobe's progs for double-digit hours a day as I do, that would say that a number of progs in the CS5 suite are still in Beta. Still waiting for fixes to some of the bugs since CS2.



    I'm just not all that cozy with the idea that Adobe can accomplish anything at the moment. Last time I stated that, was on a post regarding the stupid Conde Nast publications that were just huge JPEGs in a slide-show and weighed in at 650mb. Can't remember which one it was now... whatever.... a slide-show doesn't cut it either.
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