You didn't seem to agree with me yesterday when I said this:
I am glad that more eloquent writers have been more convincing, so that we can all agree.
I didn’t and don’t agree with you because you two stated very different things. He states, which i obviously agree with, that the iPhone 5 will have an exposed antenna as the frame, not encased and hidden like all other phones. Will they improve upon the design, of course, that’s how progress works, but I don’t think there is any chance they will go back to a clearly inferior design.
I also don’t recall you stating ANY of the advantages of the iPhone’s antenna design.
And let’s examine what I wrote and you wrote, but omitted from your last post…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solipsism
Do you really think next year’s iPhone will be cased in plastic or do you think they will continue with the antenna as the frame? I’m betting on the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio
I'd take you on that bet.
And before that you also wrote…
Quote:
…but exposing the bare antenna was likely not [a technological advance].
You qualified with the word “likely” which I appreciate as it means you are not saying it’s an absolute, but I think you are wrong in your presumption. And taking your bet would bet would be foolish because, as perviously noted, you’ve set yourself up that any change — which is 100% guaranteed — would be proof that the iPhone 4 was a bad tech. Is it flawed, absolutely, but so is everything else ever created by man. It’s the nature of things. Is it the best phone I’ve ever used and beating other phones in its ability to make and hold calls, from all the tests I’ve seen, absolutely. Does the human body block RF? Sure, always has, always will and this is not some Apple conspiracy.
an incorrect reading of what he is saying. we get that you took a freshman class in logic. you just never learned how to correctly apply what you learned. its a good baby-step attempt. stick with the schooling and you might figure it out in the long run.
I absolutely love how out of touch you are. Pretty entertaining actually. Thanks. In the end, you'll come to realize how embarrassing your limited insight is.
For all of you thinking of buying an iPhone 4.... wait until they fix this problem everyone, I say again, everyone, knows about except this genius.
Then educate us, oh Wise One, on how a 'bumper fixed [your] FLAWED iPhone 4.” Tell use how the phone itself is fixed and not the fact that the case give away, which extends to other case makers, fixes the phone, and not the media frenzy issue and the few people with issues of detuning their device when they touch its weak spot. Because my well educated and knowledgeable ass would say that using a case fixes the detuning of the antenna issue, but doesn’t actually fix the phone itself, but hey, that’s just me being out of touch with posters with their heads up their ass and not an once of critical thinking between them.
Sorry to join the party so late, my ban was only recently lifted.
This is total proof that the antenna issue is real and is a real problem. I'm sure Steve Jobs put his fist through a few walls when this issue came out. No doubt more heads will be rolling. If shattered iPhone 4's start showing up at the Genius bar in droves, then Ive and his all glass design team will be next.
It was a good idea to fire this guy on the weekend or else Fox and the rest would have been all over this and anyone left sitting on the fence wouldn't touch a iP4 with a ten foot antenna mast. Apple's brand image has been so marred by this issue. I still see cartoons in the paper poking fun at the iPhone 4 to this day.
If this guy had anything to do with the external antenna he should be shown the door. Anyone connected with this design is a... oops! Don't want to get banned for telling the truth...ummm name calling again.
I don’t know, that sounds like a pretty strong argument to me. He came to the US because other countries couldn’t accommodate his needs and wants. When you are traveling and some asks you where you are from do you tell them you are from the city you live now or the city your born in? (see what I did there? )
Well yes, this reflects the pure evil of America that they can coopt almost any person or invention in this manner.
I grew up reading about him as a "Canadian Hero" since all the flying machines, telephones and kites and things were built in Nova Scotia when he lived there. In truth, in his own mind, I think he would probably have referred to himself as a Scot though.
Canada was hardly even a real bonafide country back then and half the "Americans" were really still first generation immigrants from Scotland, England, France, Germany, etc., and probably identified more as that than as "American."
Well yes, this reflects the pure evil of America that they can coopt almost any person or invention in this manner.
I grew up reading about him as a "Canadian Hero" since all the flying machines, telephones and kites and things were built in Nova Scotia when he lived there. In truth, in his own mind, I think he would probably have referred to himself as a Scot though.
Canada was hardly even a real bonafide country back then and half the "Americans" were really still first generation immigrants from Scotland, England, France, Germany, etc.
We are a melting pot. We also gladly take everyone who came from Canada to Hollywood to make a name for themselves.
The US Is kind of like the Borg. Resistance is futile.
-or-
All your oil are belong to US.
PS: I noticed you used ?America? there. Are you referring to the evil that is the continents of N. and S. America? (inside joke)
Someone else used the off-topic card on me earlier, so I did not want to take chances.
Oh c'mon. You're talking about a forum where people regularly post pictures of their Apple products to prove the other guy wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio
I see you're making progress. Only I never said "A must be true". Now go to the wiki page about Occam's razor and you're almost done.
I know you technically never said "A must be true". You also said (and I quote) "You may find out that I am not making statements as to whether there is or there isn't a flaw, but..." I see right through this. You are (mis-)using a certain rhetorical device where you deny what you are saying in order to say it. Glenn Beck does this all the time, he'll say "I'm not saying President Obama is <criticism>, but don't you think it's interesting that if <criticism> were true, Obama would do <action>? I'm just asking questions." And it is a powerful rhetorical device to get people to conclude exactly what he denies he is saying. Beck doesn't have to say "I am saying President Obama is <criticism>"; by denying it, he already did.
How is that any different from "I am not making statements as to whether there is or there isn't a flaw, but simply noting that, if there was a flaw, Apple's actions would not have been much different from what I listed."? It's exactly the same argument. Re-read it: It's exactly the same.
Occam's Razor does not strengthen your argument. If it is meant as an appeal to probability, then that would be another logical fallacy. You cannot use Occam's Razor as a arbiter among competing theories. It would be incorrect to use it that way. It cannot be used to "prove" anything. Why mention it? You might as well have said, "so said the Magic 8-Ball."
Look, there's nothing wrong with saying that you believe Apple has a "design flaw" in the iPhone 4 antenna--lots of people believe that. There is also nothing wrong with saying "and my belief that Apple knows there is a flaw has colored my interpretation of Apple's motives for the 5 actions they took, such that my interpretation supports the conclusion that I started with." It's human nature to be biased, irrational. If that is your position, then just say it. You'll still get your share of criticism, but at least I would respect you for not trying to hide from what you believe.
BTW, if I am completely wrong about your position, then I invite you to just restate your position, clearly and unambiguously. Telling me to go read a wiki is insulting and it's not going to make yourself better understood by others.
Suddenly Newton, thank you for being reasonable. I believe now that you have understood my meaning in my original post. Yes, I know that the coincidence of the events that I listed does not prove the existence of a flaw. Further, Occam's razor cannot be used as an irrefutable argument either. What Occam's razor can be used for, though, is to choose among alternative hypothesis, all with the knowledge that this choice may be incorrect.
So, to restate my initial post, I am open to the possibility that Apple considered certain aspects of the iPhone 4 antenna design flawed, and thus acted as we have witnessed. I do not have any proof for this possibility and thus can not state it with confidence, but I do have my own reasons for my own (possibly egregious) beliefs.
I think that your initial reaction -- that everything with my post is wrong -- was caused by the frequent encounter of strong headed people who know everything on this forum. You must understand how the assumption that I am one as well had vexed me.
And thanks also for letting me share my opinion, er, um... observation, with everyone else. The iPhone 4, at least in the batch I got, is flawed. And solip's nanotube technology fixed it when I put Apple's free 'there's nothing wrong with the phone but take it, be merry, and quitcher bitchin'' bumper on it.
But, we digress. I believe this guy was canned because he hosed up and made an embarrassing mistake. That's what I talk about around the water cooler, far from the discerning eye, and overbearing, one-sided opinion, of folks like solips.
So sad, that as your first statement after returning, you chose to engage in a logical fallacy.
You know what? We'll find out for sure in a year when the iPhone 5 comes out. If the antenna is back on the inside, we shall know who is engaging in a logical fallacy.
Nikola Tesla was a Serb born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austrian empire. He emigrated later to the U.S at age 28 to do his work. He became a U.S. Citizen at age 35, by which he had already done plenty of inventions (some in Hungary for example).
Tesla did a lot of Radio work but the U.S PTO itself withdrew Tesla's patent for radio and awarded it to Marconi on the grounds of Marconi being awarded one earlier in the U.K than Tesla's application.
Nikola Tesla was a Serb born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austrian empire. He emigrated later to the U.S at age 28 to do his work. He became a U.S. Citizen at age 35, by which he had already done plenty of inventions (some in Hungary for example).
Tesla did a lot of Radio work but the U.S PTO itself withdrew Tesla's patent for radio and awarded it to Marconi on the grounds of Marconi being awarded one earlier in the U.K than Tesla's application.
Regs, Jarkko
See above. Bose, unfortunately, was not savvy enough to apply for a patent.
Comments
Agreed 100%.
Yet another snippet from the same article:
You didn't seem to agree with me yesterday when I said this:
I am glad that more eloquent writers have been more convincing, so that we can all agree.
I didn’t and don’t agree with you because you two stated very different things. He states, which i obviously agree with, that the iPhone 5 will have an exposed antenna as the frame, not encased and hidden like all other phones. Will they improve upon the design, of course, that’s how progress works, but I don’t think there is any chance they will go back to a clearly inferior design.
I also don’t recall you stating ANY of the advantages of the iPhone’s antenna design.
And let’s examine what I wrote and you wrote, but omitted from your last post…
Do you really think next year’s iPhone will be cased in plastic or do you think they will continue with the antenna as the frame? I’m betting on the latter.
I'd take you on that bet.
And before that you also wrote…
…but exposing the bare antenna was likely not [a technological advance].
You qualified with the word “likely” which I appreciate as it means you are not saying it’s an absolute, but I think you are wrong in your presumption. And taking your bet would bet would be foolish because, as perviously noted, you’ve set yourself up that any change — which is 100% guaranteed — would be proof that the iPhone 4 was a bad tech. Is it flawed, absolutely, but so is everything else ever created by man. It’s the nature of things. Is it the best phone I’ve ever used and beating other phones in its ability to make and hold calls, from all the tests I’ve seen, absolutely. Does the human body block RF? Sure, always has, always will and this is not some Apple conspiracy.
an incorrect reading of what he is saying. we get that you took a freshman class in logic. you just never learned how to correctly apply what you learned. its a good baby-step attempt. stick with the schooling and you might figure it out in the long run.
LOL. O RLY. What is the "correct reading"?
I don't think any of your comments are fooling anyone.
still bitter eh? not healthy to carry around those feelings of inadequacy. just accept your lot and soldier on. lol
LOL. O RLY. What is the "correct reading"?
eat your own dogfood. i am not going to feed you.
I absolutely love how out of touch you are. Pretty entertaining actually. Thanks. In the end, you'll come to realize how embarrassing your limited insight is.
For all of you thinking of buying an iPhone 4.... wait until they fix this problem everyone, I say again, everyone, knows about except this genius.
Then educate us, oh Wise One, on how a 'bumper fixed [your] FLAWED iPhone 4.” Tell use how the phone itself is fixed and not the fact that the case give away, which extends to other case makers, fixes the phone, and not the media frenzy issue and the few people with issues of detuning their device when they touch its weak spot. Because my well educated and knowledgeable ass would say that using a case fixes the detuning of the antenna issue, but doesn’t actually fix the phone itself, but hey, that’s just me being out of touch with posters with their heads up their ass and not an once of critical thinking between them.
LOL. O RLY. What is the "correct reading"?
I gave you the correct reading in this post:
... Only I never said "A must be true"...
You don't have to read it though. I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot make it drink.
This is total proof that the antenna issue is real and is a real problem. I'm sure Steve Jobs put his fist through a few walls when this issue came out. No doubt more heads will be rolling. If shattered iPhone 4's start showing up at the Genius bar in droves, then Ive and his all glass design team will be next.
It was a good idea to fire this guy on the weekend or else Fox and the rest would have been all over this and anyone left sitting on the fence wouldn't touch a iP4 with a ten foot antenna mast. Apple's brand image has been so marred by this issue. I still see cartoons in the paper poking fun at the iPhone 4 to this day.
If this guy had anything to do with the external antenna he should be shown the door. Anyone connected with this design is a... oops! Don't want to get banned for telling the truth...ummm name calling again.
So happy to be back. Bye for now.
I don’t know, that sounds like a pretty strong argument to me. He came to the US because other countries couldn’t accommodate his needs and wants. When you are traveling and some asks you where you are from do you tell them you are from the city you live now or the city your born in? (see what I did there?
Well yes, this reflects the pure evil of America that they can coopt almost any person or invention in this manner.
I grew up reading about him as a "Canadian Hero" since all the flying machines, telephones and kites and things were built in Nova Scotia when he lived there. In truth, in his own mind, I think he would probably have referred to himself as a Scot though.
Canada was hardly even a real bonafide country back then and half the "Americans" were really still first generation immigrants from Scotland, England, France, Germany, etc., and probably identified more as that than as "American."
... This is total proof that the antenna issue is real and is a real problem. ...
So sad, that as your first statement after returning, you chose to engage in a logical fallacy.
Well yes, this reflects the pure evil of America that they can coopt almost any person or invention in this manner.
I grew up reading about him as a "Canadian Hero" since all the flying machines, telephones and kites and things were built in Nova Scotia when he lived there. In truth, in his own mind, I think he would probably have referred to himself as a Scot though.
Canada was hardly even a real bonafide country back then and half the "Americans" were really still first generation immigrants from Scotland, England, France, Germany, etc.
We are a melting pot. We also gladly take everyone who came from Canada to Hollywood to make a name for themselves.
The US Is kind of like the Borg. Resistance is futile.
-or-
All your oil are belong to US.
PS: I noticed you used ?America? there. Are you referring to the evil that is the continents of N. and S. America?
Papermaster was quoted from Apple HQ saying, "HELP, somebody please help. I'm ... still alive, I'm just very.... BADLY BURNED.... ARRHGHGH"
Someone else used the off-topic card on me earlier, so I did not want to take chances.
Oh c'mon. You're talking about a forum where people regularly post pictures of their Apple products to prove the other guy wrong.
I see you're making progress. Only I never said "A must be true". Now go to the wiki page about Occam's razor and you're almost done.
I know you technically never said "A must be true". You also said (and I quote) "You may find out that I am not making statements as to whether there is or there isn't a flaw, but..." I see right through this. You are (mis-)using a certain rhetorical device where you deny what you are saying in order to say it. Glenn Beck does this all the time, he'll say "I'm not saying President Obama is <criticism>, but don't you think it's interesting that if <criticism> were true, Obama would do <action>? I'm just asking questions." And it is a powerful rhetorical device to get people to conclude exactly what he denies he is saying. Beck doesn't have to say "I am saying President Obama is <criticism>"; by denying it, he already did.
How is that any different from "I am not making statements as to whether there is or there isn't a flaw, but simply noting that, if there was a flaw, Apple's actions would not have been much different from what I listed."? It's exactly the same argument. Re-read it: It's exactly the same.
Occam's Razor does not strengthen your argument. If it is meant as an appeal to probability, then that would be another logical fallacy. You cannot use Occam's Razor as a arbiter among competing theories. It would be incorrect to use it that way. It cannot be used to "prove" anything. Why mention it? You might as well have said, "so said the Magic 8-Ball."
Look, there's nothing wrong with saying that you believe Apple has a "design flaw" in the iPhone 4 antenna--lots of people believe that. There is also nothing wrong with saying "and my belief that Apple knows there is a flaw has colored my interpretation of Apple's motives for the 5 actions they took, such that my interpretation supports the conclusion that I started with." It's human nature to be biased, irrational. If that is your position, then just say it. You'll still get your share of criticism, but at least I would respect you for not trying to hide from what you believe.
BTW, if I am completely wrong about your position, then I invite you to just restate your position, clearly and unambiguously. Telling me to go read a wiki is insulting and it's not going to make yourself better understood by others.
A solid argument is built around facts. In this thread, there are none...
+++++
So, to restate my initial post, I am open to the possibility that Apple considered certain aspects of the iPhone 4 antenna design flawed, and thus acted as we have witnessed. I do not have any proof for this possibility and thus can not state it with confidence, but I do have my own reasons for my own (possibly egregious) beliefs.
I think that your initial reaction -- that everything with my post is wrong -- was caused by the frequent encounter of strong headed people who know everything on this forum. You must understand how the assumption that I am one as well had vexed me.
they touch its weak spot
And who's they? Everyone but you?
And thanks also for letting me share my opinion, er, um... observation, with everyone else. The iPhone 4, at least in the batch I got, is flawed. And solip's nanotube technology fixed it when I put Apple's free 'there's nothing wrong with the phone but take it, be merry, and quitcher bitchin'' bumper on it.
But, we digress. I believe this guy was canned because he hosed up and made an embarrassing mistake. That's what I talk about around the water cooler, far from the discerning eye, and overbearing, one-sided opinion, of folks like solips.
3. Guglielmo Marconi invented radio telegraph system; Italian
t
Sorry, but Marconi ripped off Tesla, an American.
So sad, that as your first statement after returning, you chose to engage in a logical fallacy.
You know what? We'll find out for sure in a year when the iPhone 5 comes out. If the antenna is back on the inside, we shall know who is engaging in a logical fallacy.
Sorry, but Marconi ripped off Tesla, an American.
Nikola Tesla was a Serb born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austrian empire. He emigrated later to the U.S at age 28 to do his work. He became a U.S. Citizen at age 35, by which he had already done plenty of inventions (some in Hungary for example).
Tesla did a lot of Radio work but the U.S PTO itself withdrew Tesla's patent for radio and awarded it to Marconi on the grounds of Marconi being awarded one earlier in the U.K than Tesla's application.
Regs, Jarkko
Sorry, but Marconi ripped off Tesla, an American.
you are wrong on most counts:
3. Guglielmo Marconi invented radio telegraph system; Italian
Ah, the typical arrogance of a he-thinks-he-knows-it-all.
Marconi was pretty late to the game: there were a half-dozen ahead of him including Tesla, an Indian (Bose), and a Russian.
Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagadish_Chandra_Bose
Nikola Tesla was a Serb born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austrian empire. He emigrated later to the U.S at age 28 to do his work. He became a U.S. Citizen at age 35, by which he had already done plenty of inventions (some in Hungary for example).
Tesla did a lot of Radio work but the U.S PTO itself withdrew Tesla's patent for radio and awarded it to Marconi on the grounds of Marconi being awarded one earlier in the U.K than Tesla's application.
Regs, Jarkko
See above. Bose, unfortunately, was not savvy enough to apply for a patent.