And which blockhead competitor is going to do that knowing that Apple has the exclusive rights to use the material in electronic devices?
Even being unable to use the material, I believe the idea is that gaining insight into Apple's future plans would be worth a lot. Then again, aren't there laws about using insights gained by being a shareholder of a company in the competing products of your company?
My only concern would be that some potential competitor to Apple may buy LQMT at a handsome premium (which, at one level I hope happens, since I bought at $0.44 and the stock is currently trading at $1.65 ). Apple might be thrown into a situation where that competitor has an inside look at its future product plans (a la Schmidt and his role in Apple's board).
Assuming that Apple's attorneys are doing their jobs, it is extremely likely that the license agreement contains a right of first refusal. If someone else offers to buy the company, Apple gets the right to buy it for those terms first.
Assuming that Apple's attorneys are doing their jobs, it is extremely likely that the license agreement contains a right of first refusal. If someone else offers to buy the company, Apple gets the right to buy it for those terms first.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What company buys an exclusive license for something they never plan to use??? I'm assuming before they spend millions of dollars, they would have experimented and decided if they were going to use it or not. Seriously, people.
I would assume that Apple has some ideas that would utilize this in a way that would make the item better than what the competition has, or could make without it. But that doesn't mean that Apple has definite plans for its use, or that they even ran tests on it themselves.
Apple now has so much money that if they see a product or idea that they may find useful, and it doesn't cost that much, they could spend the small amount to wrap it up if they could use it. And if they don't, a few tens lf millions means so little to them that it would be worth it to just have it waiting for them if they do decide to use it for something later. And then of course, it prevents anyone else from coming up with bright ideas.
Could be that Apple already used parts of this IP in the development of the IP4 case. Jobs stated that a newly patented alloy was created just for this purpose, but no other details. The IP that LiquidMetal owns could have decreased the cost and time involved in the development of a new alloy dramatically. Apple may have licensed limited use of the IP initially and then negotiated the broad exclusive rights agreement later. Just a thought....
Yield strength is one measurement. What about the density--how does the density of the Liquidmetal alloy compare with that of Titanium alloy? I'd like to see the ratio of yield strength to density.
There's lots of info on this on the internet. Just Google liquidmetal. Lots of stuff will come up, including the density of the various alloys.
They have three main alloys. One based on beryllium, another based on zirconium, and the last based on titanium.
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
In normal thicknesses, there is no such thing as transparent metal. If silver is beaten thinly enough to a thousanths of an inch or so in thickness, it becomes transparent, but that's about it.
My only concern would be that some potential competitor to Apple may buy LQMT at a handsome premium (which, at one level I hope happens, since I bought at $0.44 and the stock is currently trading at $1.65 ). Apple might be thrown into a situation where that competitor has an inside look at its future product plans (a la Schmidt and his role in Apple's board).
What they did was to spin off another company for the purpose of licensing all their IP. Then this company licensed this IP to Apple, and the rest back to the main company. They won't know what Apple's plans are.
Did they succeed? Did they think they had a chance to succeed? AdMob had the biggest mobile ad market share. If Google was so confident why couldn't they just compete with AdMob with or without Apple ownership?
It seems to me Google had already pissed Apple off with Android. Now they are frantically trying to protect their core business.
Unlike Apple, Google is just an Ad placement company. Everything else they do is just to offer a platform to put those Ads into. To them, Apple is a big threat, because with the iOS products and their apps, people are looking at Google's Ad platform less and less. The apps deliver most of the information that would otherwise be gotten through the Google search box.
If Apple is involved in Ads too, then that's a double threat to Google. I can understand them being very nervous about Apple getting the largest internet Ad agency. Did their buying AdMob out from Apple help them? Not likely in the long run, but perhaps it set Apple's plans back a few months.
Hope for your sake a reply doesn't come back "10.5 inches and it produces it's own liquid mettle!"
?
!
?
Sick, I know, but you as Larry the Cable Guy would say... "I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there!" Followed by "That ain't right, Lord I apologize for that right there and be with the starving pygmies down there in New Guinea there, Amen." "Git-R-Done!"
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid.
What they did was to spin off another company for the purpose of licensing all their IP. Then this company licensed this IP to Apple, and the rest back to the main company. They won't know what Apple's plans are.
Perhaps that was obvious from the filing, but could you point me to a cite. Many thanks!
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid.
Most of that is not true.
First, metals can be crystalline or amorphous or (most commonly) a mixture of crystalline and amorphous.
Second, Glas is not like a liquid. It is typically described as a supercooled liquid, but current research shows that to not be a very accurate description.
Even for liquid metal, there could be tiny crystalline areas (perhaps domains of just a few angstroms.
Any company that wants to keep it from the competition. Why else would they pay for exclusive rights?
Why did Google by AdMob? Because they couldn't make their own mobile advertising platform? Please. Google has enough money to write their own OS for advertising. They just wanted to keep Apple out of the ad business. See? Happens all the time.
I'm pretty sure they will use it. It being expensive is no reason not to use it, especially if you're Apple.
If SANDISK!! could use it in their U3 Flash drives and Sansa media players (and trust me, I KNOWW exactly how cheap SanDisk is as a company) then I think Apple can comfortably use it. It isn't made of diamonds.
In normal thicknesses, there is no such thing as transparent metal. If silver is beaten thinly enough to a thousanths of an inch or so in thickness, it becomes transparent, but that's about it.
Various metals can be combined with oxygen and crystallized into a completely transparent form.
Yield strength is one measurement. What about the density--how does the density of the Liquidmetal alloy compare with that of Titanium alloy? I'd like to see the ratio of yield strength to density.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid. Not all glass is transparent.[/QUOTE
Most of that is not true.
First, metals can be crystalline or amorphous or (most commonly) a mixture of crystalline and amorphous.
Second, Glas[s] (my correction) is not like a liquid. It is typically described as a supercooled liquid, but current research shows that to not be a very accurate description.
Even for liquid metal, there could be tiny crystalline areas (perhaps domains of just a few angstroms.
I offered my explanation in response to this and other post regarding the misconception that "metallic glass" is the same as glass used for windows. I tried to explain the difference.
Liquid metal alloys are amorphous metals and it appears that most amorphous metals are synthetic or man made materials. Of course steel and stainless steel are also man made, but they have a crystalline structure. Perhaps the term I used "Liquid Metal" was incorrect in the sense that it refers to the company and not the class of materials that they make. But the name implies that the amorphous composition of metallic glass is like glass which, by some is considered a liquid. see comments below
Structure of Metals:
PBS
“At the atomic heart of metal is a crystalline structure—tightly packed atoms arranged in orderly rows.”
“[A]s the metal solidifies and the grains grow, they grow independently of each other, which means eventually these different areas of growing grains have to meet. When they do, the arrangement of the atoms in the grain structure is disrupted at that meeting point. This is called a grain boundary. Grain boundaries form a continuous network throughout the metal, and because of the disrupted structure at the boundary, the metal often acts differently at the boundary locations.
“...all metals and alloys are crystalline solids, although some metals have been formed in the lab without crystalline structure. And most metals assume one of three different lattice, or crystalline, structures as they form...”
“An alloy is a solid solution composed of two or more metals, or of a metal(s) with one or more nonmetals.”
“When discussing a metal’s microstructure (in micrometers - μm), a grain represents the small crystals that grow around a nucleus in all directions when a molten metal is cooled. Where one grain meets another at the edge is called a grain boundary. However, dislocations can be present, which are defects in the metal lattice structure where a few ions in a layer are missing, causing the neighboring layers to be displaced slightly to minimize the strain. The more grain boundaries there are the more difficult it is for the dislocations to move and for the metal to change shape. The result is that the metal is stiffer and harder. It is also stronger.”
“An amorphous metal is a metallic material with a disordered atomic-scale structure. In contrast to most metals, which are crystalline and therefore have a highly ordered arrangement of atoms, amorphous alloys are non-crystalline. Materials in which such a disordered structure is produced directly from the liquid state during cooling are called 'glasses', and so amorphous metals are commonly referred to as 'metallic glasses' or 'glassy metals'.”
“The first reported metallic glass was an alloy (Au75Si25) produced at Caltech by W. Klement (Jr.), Willens and Duwez in 1960.”
"The atomic structure is the most striking characteristic of the Liquidmetal alloys as it fundamentally differentiates Liquidmetal alloys from ordinary metals.
The atomic structure of ordinary or conventional metals and alloys is periodic, where the layout of atomic elements shows repeating patterns over an extended range. This atomic structure is called "crystalline" and limits the overall performance of conventional metals.
Liquid metal alloys possess an "amorphous" atomic structure, which is truly unique. By contrast to the crystalline structure, no discernable patterns exist in the atomic structure of the unique Liquidmetal alloys. As such, properties superior to the limits of conventional metals can be achieved."
“There is no clear answer to the question "Is glass solid or liquid?".* In terms of molecular dynamics and thermodynamics it is possible to justify various different views that it is a highly viscous liquid, an amorphous solid, or simply that glass is another state of matter that is neither liquid nor solid.* The difference is semantic.*“
“Glasses are amorphous solids. There is a fundamental structural divide between amorphous solids (including glasses) and crystalline solids. Structurally, glasses are similar to liquids, but that doesn't mean they are liquid. It is possible that the "glass is a liquid" urban legend originated with a misreading of a German treatise on glass thermodynamics.”
Comments
And which blockhead competitor is going to do that knowing that Apple has the exclusive rights to use the material in electronic devices?
Even being unable to use the material, I believe the idea is that gaining insight into Apple's future plans would be worth a lot. Then again, aren't there laws about using insights gained by being a shareholder of a company in the competing products of your company?
My only concern would be that some potential competitor to Apple may buy LQMT at a handsome premium (which, at one level I hope happens, since I bought at $0.44 and the stock is currently trading at $1.65
Assuming that Apple's attorneys are doing their jobs, it is extremely likely that the license agreement contains a right of first refusal. If someone else offers to buy the company, Apple gets the right to buy it for those terms first.
Assuming that Apple's attorneys are doing their jobs, it is extremely likely that the license agreement contains a right of first refusal. If someone else offers to buy the company, Apple gets the right to buy it for those terms first.
Fair point.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What company buys an exclusive license for something they never plan to use??? I'm assuming before they spend millions of dollars, they would have experimented and decided if they were going to use it or not. Seriously, people.
I would assume that Apple has some ideas that would utilize this in a way that would make the item better than what the competition has, or could make without it. But that doesn't mean that Apple has definite plans for its use, or that they even ran tests on it themselves.
Apple now has so much money that if they see a product or idea that they may find useful, and it doesn't cost that much, they could spend the small amount to wrap it up if they could use it. And if they don't, a few tens lf millions means so little to them that it would be worth it to just have it waiting for them if they do decide to use it for something later. And then of course, it prevents anyone else from coming up with bright ideas.
Could be that Apple already used parts of this IP in the development of the IP4 case. Jobs stated that a newly patented alloy was created just for this purpose, but no other details. The IP that LiquidMetal owns could have decreased the cost and time involved in the development of a new alloy dramatically. Apple may have licensed limited use of the IP initially and then negotiated the broad exclusive rights agreement later. Just a thought....
They said Stainless Steel alloy.
Yield strength is one measurement. What about the density--how does the density of the Liquidmetal alloy compare with that of Titanium alloy? I'd like to see the ratio of yield strength to density.
There's lots of info on this on the internet. Just Google liquidmetal. Lots of stuff will come up, including the density of the various alloys.
They have three main alloys. One based on beryllium, another based on zirconium, and the last based on titanium.
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
In normal thicknesses, there is no such thing as transparent metal. If silver is beaten thinly enough to a thousanths of an inch or so in thickness, it becomes transparent, but that's about it.
My only concern would be that some potential competitor to Apple may buy LQMT at a handsome premium (which, at one level I hope happens, since I bought at $0.44 and the stock is currently trading at $1.65
What they did was to spin off another company for the purpose of licensing all their IP. Then this company licensed this IP to Apple, and the rest back to the main company. They won't know what Apple's plans are.
Did they succeed? Did they think they had a chance to succeed? AdMob had the biggest mobile ad market share. If Google was so confident why couldn't they just compete with AdMob with or without Apple ownership?
It seems to me Google had already pissed Apple off with Android. Now they are frantically trying to protect their core business.
Unlike Apple, Google is just an Ad placement company. Everything else they do is just to offer a platform to put those Ads into. To them, Apple is a big threat, because with the iOS products and their apps, people are looking at Google's Ad platform less and less. The apps deliver most of the information that would otherwise be gotten through the Google search box.
If Apple is involved in Ads too, then that's a double threat to Google. I can understand them being very nervous about Apple getting the largest internet Ad agency. Did their buying AdMob out from Apple help them? Not likely in the long run, but perhaps it set Apple's plans back a few months.
Depends on what your measurements are
Hope for your sake a reply doesn't come back "10.5 inches and it produces it's own liquid mettle!"
?
!
?
Sick, I know, but you as Larry the Cable Guy would say... "I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there!" Followed by "That ain't right, Lord I apologize for that right there and be with the starving pygmies down there in New Guinea there, Amen." "Git-R-Done!"
Sometimes companies are purchased for the intellectual property, not just their products.
Since Apple didn't buy the company what was the point of your comment?!
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid.
Not all glass is transparent.
What they did was to spin off another company for the purpose of licensing all their IP. Then this company licensed this IP to Apple, and the rest back to the main company. They won't know what Apple's plans are.
Perhaps that was obvious from the filing, but could you point me to a cite. Many thanks!
Also, I wonder when Liquidmetal would make it into road/racing bicycles to perhaps replace titanium.
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid.
Most of that is not true.
First, metals can be crystalline or amorphous or (most commonly) a mixture of crystalline and amorphous.
Second, Glas is not like a liquid. It is typically described as a supercooled liquid, but current research shows that to not be a very accurate description.
Even for liquid metal, there could be tiny crystalline areas (perhaps domains of just a few angstroms.
Any company that wants to keep it from the competition. Why else would they pay for exclusive rights?
Why did Google by AdMob? Because they couldn't make their own mobile advertising platform? Please. Google has enough money to write their own OS for advertising. They just wanted to keep Apple out of the ad business. See? Happens all the time.
I'm pretty sure they will use it. It being expensive is no reason not to use it, especially if you're Apple.
If SANDISK!! could use it in their U3 Flash drives and Sansa media players (and trust me, I KNOWW exactly how cheap SanDisk is as a company) then I think Apple can comfortably use it. It isn't made of diamonds.
In normal thicknesses, there is no such thing as transparent metal. If silver is beaten thinly enough to a thousanths of an inch or so in thickness, it becomes transparent, but that's about it.
Various metals can be combined with oxygen and crystallized into a completely transparent form.
Various metals can be combined with oxygen and crystallized into a completely transparent form.
Then they're no longer metals - they're metal oxides.
Your statement is like saying it's OK to eat sodium and bathe in chlorine because sodium chloride is common table salt.
Then they're no longer metals - they're metal oxides.
Your statement is like saying it's OK to eat sodium and bathe in chlorine because sodium chloride is common table salt.
Yield strength is one measurement. What about the density--how does the density of the Liquidmetal alloy compare with that of Titanium alloy? I'd like to see the ratio of yield strength to density.
"metallic glass" Does this sound remotely like "transparent Aluminum" ????? :-)
Just a thought,
en
I think this refers to the structure of the material. Metal has a crystalline structure. Liquid metal like glass has an amorphous or non-crystilline structure. Glass is like a liquid. Not all glass is transparent.[/QUOTE
Most of that is not true.
First, metals can be crystalline or amorphous or (most commonly) a mixture of crystalline and amorphous.
Second, Glas[s] (my correction
Even for liquid metal, there could be tiny crystalline areas (perhaps domains of just a few angstroms.
I offered my explanation in response to this and other post regarding the misconception that "metallic glass" is the same as glass used for windows. I tried to explain the difference.
Liquid metal alloys are amorphous metals and it appears that most amorphous metals are synthetic or man made materials. Of course steel and stainless steel are also man made, but they have a crystalline structure. Perhaps the term I used "Liquid Metal" was incorrect in the sense that it refers to the company and not the class of materials that they make. But the name implies that the amorphous composition of metallic glass is like glass which, by some is considered a liquid. see comments below
Structure of Metals:
PBS
“At the atomic heart of metal is a crystalline structure—tightly packed atoms arranged in orderly rows.”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/metal.html
Metal crystal structure
“Metal crystal structure and specific metal properties are determined by metallic bonding – force, holding together the atoms of a metal.”
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/dok...stal_structure
“[A]s the metal solidifies and the grains grow, they grow independently of each other, which means eventually these different areas of growing grains have to meet. When they do, the arrangement of the atoms in the grain structure is disrupted at that meeting point. This is called a grain boundary. Grain boundaries form a continuous network throughout the metal, and because of the disrupted structure at the boundary, the metal often acts differently at the boundary locations.
“...all metals and alloys are crystalline solids, although some metals have been formed in the lab without crystalline structure. And most metals assume one of three different lattice, or crystalline, structures as they form...”
http://www.thefabricator.com/article...cture-of-metal
Metal Alloys:
“An alloy is a solid solution composed of two or more metals, or of a metal(s) with one or more nonmetals.”
“When discussing a metal’s microstructure (in micrometers - μm), a grain represents the small crystals that grow around a nucleus in all directions when a molten metal is cooled. Where one grain meets another at the edge is called a grain boundary. However, dislocations can be present, which are defects in the metal lattice structure where a few ions in a layer are missing, causing the neighboring layers to be displaced slightly to minimize the strain. The more grain boundaries there are the more difficult it is for the dislocations to move and for the metal to change shape. The result is that the metal is stiffer and harder. It is also stronger.”
http://www.nsec.northwestern.edu/S.Z...%20Project.pdf
Amorphous Metals
“An amorphous metal is a metallic material with a disordered atomic-scale structure. In contrast to most metals, which are crystalline and therefore have a highly ordered arrangement of atoms, amorphous alloys are non-crystalline. Materials in which such a disordered structure is produced directly from the liquid state during cooling are called 'glasses', and so amorphous metals are commonly referred to as 'metallic glasses' or 'glassy metals'.”
“The first reported metallic glass was an alloy (Au75Si25) produced at Caltech by W. Klement (Jr.), Willens and Duwez in 1960.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_metal
LIQUID METAL
"The atomic structure is the most striking characteristic of the Liquidmetal alloys as it fundamentally differentiates Liquidmetal alloys from ordinary metals.
The atomic structure of ordinary or conventional metals and alloys is periodic, where the layout of atomic elements shows repeating patterns over an extended range. This atomic structure is called "crystalline" and limits the overall performance of conventional metals.
Liquid metal alloys possess an "amorphous" atomic structure, which is truly unique. By contrast to the crystalline structure, no discernable patterns exist in the atomic structure of the unique Liquidmetal alloys. As such, properties superior to the limits of conventional metals can be achieved."
http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/default.asp
Is glass a liquid or solid?
“There is no clear answer to the question "Is glass solid or liquid?".* In terms of molecular dynamics and thermodynamics it is possible to justify various different views that it is a highly viscous liquid, an amorphous solid, or simply that glass is another state of matter that is neither liquid nor solid.* The difference is semantic.*“
http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/...ass/glass.html
“Glasses are amorphous solids. There is a fundamental structural divide between amorphous solids (including glasses) and crystalline solids. Structurally, glasses are similar to liquids, but that doesn't mean they are liquid. It is possible that the "glass is a liquid" urban legend originated with a misreading of a German treatise on glass thermodynamics.”
http://dwb4.unl.edu/Chem/CHEM869A/CH...rin.html#concl