There's nothing impressive about Source, it's a relic in every way. It lacks per basic pixel lighting for a start, which has been standard in other engines for close to 10 years now, let alone more complex, newer tech. (I'm talking environments here)
Compare it to the likes of Unreal 3, Anvil, CryEngine 2, and especially id Tech 5... there's just no comparison
i suspect that if it hadn't been for carmack being a believer in open source and releasing lots of code over the years that all of those other engines/programmers wouldn't be so far along. maybe he is 'outdated' (i don't know) but all the jealous twits should give him his due as the greatest pioneer in game graphics engines.
If anyone can push any platform graphically, it's John Carmack. He's literally a rocket scientist. However let's also keep in mind that this a tech demo, so things like AI aren't still fully implemented. Regardless, this looks impressive.
Physics tend to eat up a lot of the processing power too, people standing around waving don't really test the physics.
All that aside though, Apple is clearly getting their game face on. Just like Windows blew out competition because of focused development for their platform, it seems the iPhone is steeling the show and the development muscle of the big dogs. Apple has long understood that simple hardware specs don't equal superior performance, something very few people seem to fully understand. For Apple hardware is about harmony, about removing the bottlenecks and letting everything just work together. Most companies just try to throw a few beefy parts in there and crank up the power until your battery is nonexistent.
There's nothing impressive about Source, it's a relic in every way. It lacks per basic pixel lighting for a start, which has been standard in other engines for close to 10 years now, let alone more complex, newer tech. (I'm talking environments here)
Compare it to the likes of Unreal 3, Anvil, CryEngine 2, and especially id Tech 5... there's just no comparison
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
Half Life 2, Portal, TF2 and Left4Dead are aesthetically pleasing, despite having a less specification-impressive engine.
Modern Warfare 2, and even StarCraft 2 have pretty average 3D tech. It will outsell Rage by far even with all the fantasticalness of the iD engine.
I get your point, but I consider aesthetics and gameplay to be more important than what magic the graphics engine can do.
But fair enough, aesthetics is a very personal thing. COD MW2 was fun to play but visually was a bit inconsistent.
Also what's reasonable on a decent PC rig is also something I consider, I'm running a 4830 512mb ATI and the graphics engine should purr along at 1920x1080 with 4xAA and near-highest settings... Otherwise all the bells and whistles are not too relevant because you need a hot, beastly, powerhungry and expensive GPU to run it (see: Crysis).
Carmack has earlier said the iPhone was "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined," and now says he could use it to "kill anything done on the Xbox or PlayStation 2."
I don't quite get this part. The Hummingbird GPU - aka A4 - can do 90m triangles a second - I think - and the Xbox 360 GPU can do 500m a second.
Its amazing to read the 180 on Carmack from people on these boards... When Carmack was going on about how much Apple/Mac sucks, everyone was against him stating that he and his games were no longer relevant. Now that he showed a controlled demo that looks good, he is a hero...
I still can't believe the amount of hype video game demonstrations receive.
Speaking for myself, I've been impressed with his accomplishments since I first read about him. He's a game graphics pioneer of the first order.
I think Apple needs to change their attitude towards gaming and really push for it's advancement on their products. Gaming is a key area that has pushed hardware and software over that past decade.
I keep thinking back to a PC Gamer magazine from 2001-2 or so. Inside they had put together a mock cover for an anniversary edition that sated something like "PC Gamer 2010 edition!"
On the bottom corner they had a pic of a balding Vederman with the cation: "The Vede reviews Doom 3 for mobile phones!"
And now here we are with Doom Resurrection already out and Tech5 demo running on an iPhone and looking like it's going to blow away even the current consloles.
I would so love to get my hands on this engine. If I could build my final game project on this the other people in my class would crap their pants. I don't think unity 3 will be able to touch this if carmack finishes this.
I keep thinking back to a PC Gamer magazine from 2001-2 or so. Inside they had put together a mock cover for an anniversary edition that sated something like "PC Gamer 2010 edition!"
On the bottom corner they had a pic of a balding Vederman with the cation: "The Vede reviews Doom 3 for mobile phones!"
And now here we are with Doom Resurrection already out and Tech5 demo running on an iPhone and looking like it's going to blow away even the current consloles.
Amazing.
While the demo looks great I believe its unrealistic to think any of this is going to blow away the current consoles. Remember they are talking about the xbox and Ps2 which is rather different then the current gen models.
Also its alot easier to make a two min demo look great then it is to transfer that into an entire game. First thing that comes to mind would be heat issues if you play that game for more then 15 mins. Even Carmack said his part was easy handing it over to create a real game is the hard part.
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
That's a highly subjective statement. I can show you screenshots of Final Fantasy XIII looking much better on the PS3 than the 360, particularly in terms of texture work, which would defy expectations given that the 360 has double the RAM of a PS3. The game also runs at a lower resolution on the 360 than the PS3, which would defy the idea that the 360's Xenos GPU is demonstrably better than the PS3's RSX GPU.
You're right that graphics aren't the be all end all, but wrong to cite the PS3 as proof. If anything, you should cite the Wii.
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
WAAA? PS3 worst graphics than 360? WHATA HELL ARE YOU DRINKING?
WAAA? PS3 worst graphics than 360? WHATA HELL ARE YOU DRINKING?
Actually PS3 graphics were bad for a while because of firmware issues. Even having firmware updates that would brick the device. PS3 library still sucks compared to Microsoft.
Actually PS3 graphics were bad for a while because of firmware issues. Even having firmware updates that would brick the device. PS3 library still sucks compared to Microsoft.
Nothing in this quote makes any sense, let alone bears any resemblance to reality. Can we keep the console fanboyism out of this, please?
Wow, too bad you can't be Mr. Carmack's advisor. What was he thinking demonstrating this today before talking about all these concerns with you? Hopefully he knows about some of the things you mentioned because it would be really embarrassing for him to demo this without being aware of how these things will affect the end results. I'm sure he wouldn't have step foot on stage if he had known that. And as we all know, he's new to this whole game programming thing so he probably doesn't even know what he's talking about.
I'm just thankful we have so many experts in these forums who can keep the man on the right path.
Mr. Carmack's a pretty damn good graphics programmer. That's about it.
The above is one one of many firmware issues Sony released. Others can be found with little to no effort with a little search engine callled Gooogle.
Ugh, don't even get me started on this. My original PS3 60GB was bricked last year by Sony's oh-so-wonderful firmware update. Then they released one that promised to remove my YellowDog Linux partition, and that was the last straw: I'm not even going to talk about the fail that is PSN. Fourteen hours to download one HD movie rental from PSN over a cable modem?
"PS3 only does everything"? Everything includes bricking your PS3 and removing features after you bought the thing.
Anyway, I'm glad DOOM is available on iOS and OS X. Apple is truly DOOMED!
The above is one one of many firmware issues Sony released. Others can be found with little to no effort with a little search engine callled Gooogle.
Sorry, but yes, your post has everything to do with fanboyism, particularly your statement that the PS3 had at one point graphics inferior to the 360 that had to somehow be resolved with a firmware update, as well as passing off your opinion of the PS3's games library as fact.
No one is contesting that some firmware updates on the PS3 have bricked consoles and the like, just as no on is contesting the existence of the RROD on the 360. What I'm calling you on are your statements that the PS3's graphics somehow needed to be fixed or improved with a firmware update, which is technologically impossible and historically inaccurate, and that the PS3's games library was and is somehow inferior to the 360's. Recent sales figures and aggregate review scores would say otherwise.
So can we set the "I bought Console X, therefore it is better than Console Y" crap aside and get back to talking about the technological implications of Rage/id Tech 5 on the iPhone?
Comments
There's nothing impressive about Source, it's a relic in every way. It lacks per basic pixel lighting for a start, which has been standard in other engines for close to 10 years now, let alone more complex, newer tech. (I'm talking environments here)
Compare it to the likes of Unreal 3, Anvil, CryEngine 2, and especially id Tech 5... there's just no comparison
i suspect that if it hadn't been for carmack being a believer in open source and releasing lots of code over the years that all of those other engines/programmers wouldn't be so far along. maybe he is 'outdated' (i don't know) but all the jealous twits should give him his due as the greatest pioneer in game graphics engines.
If anyone can push any platform graphically, it's John Carmack. He's literally a rocket scientist. However let's also keep in mind that this a tech demo, so things like AI aren't still fully implemented. Regardless, this looks impressive.
Physics tend to eat up a lot of the processing power too, people standing around waving don't really test the physics.
All that aside though, Apple is clearly getting their game face on.
There's nothing impressive about Source, it's a relic in every way. It lacks per basic pixel lighting for a start, which has been standard in other engines for close to 10 years now, let alone more complex, newer tech. (I'm talking environments here)
Compare it to the likes of Unreal 3, Anvil, CryEngine 2, and especially id Tech 5... there's just no comparison
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
Half Life 2, Portal, TF2 and Left4Dead are aesthetically pleasing, despite having a less specification-impressive engine.
Modern Warfare 2, and even StarCraft 2 have pretty average 3D tech. It will outsell Rage by far even with all the fantasticalness of the iD engine.
I get your point, but I consider aesthetics and gameplay to be more important than what magic the graphics engine can do.
But fair enough, aesthetics is a very personal thing. COD MW2 was fun to play but visually was a bit inconsistent.
Also what's reasonable on a decent PC rig is also something I consider, I'm running a 4830 512mb ATI and the graphics engine should purr along at 1920x1080 with 4xAA and near-highest settings... Otherwise all the bells and whistles are not too relevant because you need a hot, beastly, powerhungry and expensive GPU to run it (see: Crysis).
Carmack has earlier said the iPhone was "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined," and now says he could use it to "kill anything done on the Xbox or PlayStation 2."
I don't quite get this part. The Hummingbird GPU - aka A4 - can do 90m triangles a second - I think - and the Xbox 360 GPU can do 500m a second.
Its amazing to read the 180 on Carmack from people on these boards... When Carmack was going on about how much Apple/Mac sucks, everyone was against him stating that he and his games were no longer relevant. Now that he showed a controlled demo that looks good, he is a hero...
I still can't believe the amount of hype video game demonstrations receive.
Speaking for myself, I've been impressed with his accomplishments since I first read about him. He's a game graphics pioneer of the first order.
I don't quite get this part. The Hummingbird GPU - aka A4 - can do 90m triangles a second - I think - and the Xbox 360 GPU can do 500m a second.
Basically Carmack is saying the iPhone can now do something between the PS2 and PS3, or between Xbox and Xbox360... Which generally makes sense.
On the bottom corner they had a pic of a balding Vederman with the cation: "The Vede reviews Doom 3 for mobile phones!"
And now here we are with Doom Resurrection already out and Tech5 demo running on an iPhone and looking like it's going to blow away even the current consloles.
Amazing.
I keep thinking back to a PC Gamer magazine from 2001-2 or so. Inside they had put together a mock cover for an anniversary edition that sated something like "PC Gamer 2010 edition!"
On the bottom corner they had a pic of a balding Vederman with the cation: "The Vede reviews Doom 3 for mobile phones!"
And now here we are with Doom Resurrection already out and Tech5 demo running on an iPhone and looking like it's going to blow away even the current consloles.
Amazing.
While the demo looks great I believe its unrealistic to think any of this is going to blow away the current consoles. Remember they are talking about the xbox and Ps2 which is rather different then the current gen models.
Also its alot easier to make a two min demo look great then it is to transfer that into an entire game. First thing that comes to mind would be heat issues if you play that game for more then 15 mins. Even Carmack said his part was easy handing it over to create a real game is the hard part.
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
That's a highly subjective statement. I can show you screenshots of Final Fantasy XIII looking much better on the PS3 than the 360, particularly in terms of texture work, which would defy expectations given that the 360 has double the RAM of a PS3. The game also runs at a lower resolution on the 360 than the PS3, which would defy the idea that the 360's Xenos GPU is demonstrably better than the PS3's RSX GPU.
You're right that graphics aren't the be all end all, but wrong to cite the PS3 as proof. If anything, you should cite the Wii.
Graphic engine specifications aren't the be all and end all. If so, PS3 would be hardly used because it has the worst graphics compared to Xbox360 and PC.
WAAA? PS3 worst graphics than 360? WHATA HELL ARE YOU DRINKING?
WAAA? PS3 worst graphics than 360? WHATA HELL ARE YOU DRINKING?
Actually PS3 graphics were bad for a while because of firmware issues. Even having firmware updates that would brick the device. PS3 library still sucks compared to Microsoft.
Actually PS3 graphics were bad for a while because of firmware issues. Even having firmware updates that would brick the device. PS3 library still sucks compared to Microsoft.
Nothing in this quote makes any sense, let alone bears any resemblance to reality. Can we keep the console fanboyism out of this, please?
Wow, too bad you can't be Mr. Carmack's advisor. What was he thinking demonstrating this today before talking about all these concerns with you? Hopefully he knows about some of the things you mentioned because it would be really embarrassing for him to demo this without being aware of how these things will affect the end results. I'm sure he wouldn't have step foot on stage if he had known that. And as we all know, he's new to this whole game programming thing so he probably doesn't even know what he's talking about.
I'm just thankful we have so many experts in these forums who can keep the man on the right path.
Mr. Carmack's a pretty damn good graphics programmer. That's about it.
Nothing in this quote makes any sense, let alone bears any resemblance to reality. Can we keep the console fanboyism out of this, please?
Has nothing to so with fanboyism. If you are going to make stupid comments maybe you should try to educate yourself.
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/puzzle/p...ml?sid=6239189
The above is one one of many firmware issues Sony released. Others can be found with little to no effort with a little search engine callled Gooogle.
Has nothing to so with fanboyism. If you are going to make stupid comments maybe you should try to educate yourself.
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/puzzle/p...ml?sid=6239189
The above is one one of many firmware issues Sony released. Others can be found with little to no effort with a little search engine callled Gooogle.
Ugh, don't even get me started on this. My original PS3 60GB was bricked last year by Sony's oh-so-wonderful firmware update. Then they released one that promised to remove my YellowDog Linux partition, and that was the last straw: I'm not even going to talk about the fail that is PSN. Fourteen hours to download one HD movie rental from PSN over a cable modem?
"PS3 only does everything"? Everything includes bricking your PS3 and removing features after you bought the thing.
Anyway, I'm glad DOOM is available on iOS and OS X. Apple is truly DOOMED!
Has nothing to so with fanboyism. If you are going to make stupid comments maybe you should try to educate yourself.
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/puzzle/p...ml?sid=6239189
The above is one one of many firmware issues Sony released. Others can be found with little to no effort with a little search engine callled Gooogle.
Sorry, but yes, your post has everything to do with fanboyism, particularly your statement that the PS3 had at one point graphics inferior to the 360 that had to somehow be resolved with a firmware update, as well as passing off your opinion of the PS3's games library as fact.
No one is contesting that some firmware updates on the PS3 have bricked consoles and the like, just as no on is contesting the existence of the RROD on the 360. What I'm calling you on are your statements that the PS3's graphics somehow needed to be fixed or improved with a firmware update, which is technologically impossible and historically inaccurate, and that the PS3's games library was and is somehow inferior to the 360's. Recent sales figures and aggregate review scores would say otherwise.
So can we set the "I bought Console X, therefore it is better than Console Y" crap aside and get back to talking about the technological implications of Rage/id Tech 5 on the iPhone?