I use MS Office at work because I have little choice. It's good for short, quick tasks, but doesn't work well for large or formal projects, and has a lot of nasty quirks. I had come to think of Word especially as "a relic of the 80's".
I recently completed a project that produced two massive documents (2400+ pages together) using a lot of automation; Excel, Word, XML/XSLT, and C# code together in a hot mess. It mostly worked, but there was a lot of stuff that just had to be done manually and laboriously. MS Office was definitely the wrong tool for the job!
I'm taking a little down time to investigate alternative publishing tools, especially ones based on plain text. I found out that LaTeX is actually available at work, and my initial impressions are very positive. The "benefits" of Office 2011 are laughable in comparison.
Plain-text files are inherently compatible with any editor on any platform.
The output is always consistent on any platform.
TeX (the core) has been stable for 20 years, so there is no version compatibility issues.
I'll just stick with my Mac Office 2008 until I have completed migrating over to iWork. It's been a gradual process. I am done with Word, and am only opening and modifying old spreadsheets with Excel. All new docs and spreadsheets I create with iWork. It's just a matter of time.
I plan to move from 08 to 11. I am not too concerned about word, excel or PowerPoint. I am more curious about Outlook. How will it really work in the real world with its windows brother? Of course you'll need exchange 07 or above for it to work.
I have the beta version, and outlook is largely the same as in Windows and works well. I find having one application that integrates e-mail, contacts, and calendar better than 3 separate apps, but that is me.
I sincerely doubt that many (if any) here have used the beta, and yet most here pronounce the product as a failure without ever having used it, although it should not surprise me.
The suite is significantly faster than 08. For better or worse it has the ribbon interface of the windows version. I like the ribbon, but it is an acquired taste to be sure.
As to the suite in general. IIRC, this was hashed out in another thread, but to be honest, there is no better suite if your needs exceed that of a high school student. OpenOffice doesn't cut it, NeoOffice is ok, but not great, and iWork needs a lot of work, with the possible exception of Keynote.
This is just sad. These new "features" (as opposed to features), won't add anything but more confusion. There's nothing in this product, this video, or the MS MBU that inspires the slightest bit of confidence that these guys realise what the big problem with their software is.
Since the first version, people have been saying that Mac Office is over-designed, confusing, and bloated. Here we are in the low teens for version numbers, and ... they are adding new "features." WTF?! They just don't get it. It's as if MS was a late 50's car manufacturer and is just focussing on putting cool fins on what is basically the same model as last year.
How about starting from scratch and designing a product that actually does what people want it to do without having to read an 800 page book to figure out all the "features" and turn off all the crap you don't want? How about a product that focusses like a laser beam on the task at hand instead of a bloated "do everything, but none of it well" office suite that takes over your computer? How about listening to people who *don't* use the product, instead of the endless focus groups of middle manager, Office "lifers" with their wish-lists of "features" they'd like to see?
I've been using beta versions of this product for several months now and it is just plain awesome. It is far more polished and intuitive that 2004 or 2008. It's far more native to the Mac and feels anything but bloated and confusing. I recommend you get your hands on the latest beta found here: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5748520
How about listening to people who *don't* use the product
Interesting concept. I have to assume you mean it only works one way though. It is not like you are seriously advocating that Apple listen to non-Apple users are you?
So the big story with the new Office for Mac is that Microsoft Office is now compatible with Microsoft Office?
Man, what an argument for workplace drug testing...
People here are funny.
So, I was at a conference recently, and a grad student, who made her presentation on a Mac with Office, got up to present, using the default Windows PowerPoint, and all her figures were gone.
So, she tried the version she made in Keynote, saved to ppt, and again, all the figures were gone.
So, yes, full compatibility is a big deal, and I am will to bet that the lack of compatibility is what makes a lot of people bootcamp their Macs.
So, I was at a conference recently, and a grad student, who made her presentation on a Mac with Office, got up to present, using the default Windows PowerPoint, and all her figures were gone.
So, she tried the version she made in Keynote, saved to ppt, and again, all the figures were gone.
So, yes, full compatibility is a big deal, and I am will to bet that the lack of compatibility is what makes a lot of people bootcamp their Macs.
I think the other user tried to say that the comparability of the same software on different platforms should be a default feature. Not even the feature, more than that - the basic element of the development.
And it is just funny how MS is selling how cool they are by removing those "bugs", when the things looked different. People should not be charged for such "revolutionary improvements".
Though I am happy that Mac users can finally make their Word documents look "extremely professional".
I can live with the viruses - since I'm not foolish enough to open stuff from people I don't trust. But I need VBA (new company that just loves VBA junk), so it will be a welcome addition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
I'll just stick with my Mac Office 2008 until I have completed migrating over to iWork.
I'd love to do the same, but I need VBA.
The formatting differences are annoying, too. It's frustrating to have the same document print differently in Word/Windows and Word/Mac. I'll upgrade. I just hope all the 20,000 new features don't bring it to a screeching halt. My iMac is 2 years old and I don't want to have to replace it just so I can run Office at a reasonable pace.
First, don't ever have a guy named Schmucker pitch your products.
On topic, I think this is good. iWork is ok, but Windows compatibility is still weak. Sounds like MSFT is adding "iWork like" features that Office for Windows might not get, but still offer compatibility. How is that bad? I hate to admit that I still use Office, but it's reality.
Kurt Schmucker used to work for Apple. He was a pretty good programmer and knew a lot about user interface. Maybe he helped MS look up "compatibility" in the dictionary.
OTOH, maybe you prefer uninformed bashing of a product by people who have never used the product? If that is the case, then you have nothing against the Apple haters, right?
Comments
Basic's interface would look simple rather like Pages.
Intermediate would look a little more 'busy' and 'cluttered'
And the Power User's interface would look like what they are presently shipping.
I bet 80% of the users use less than 20% of all the available features!
I just looks clunky and crappy the way it is now.
Best
First, don't ever have a guy named Schmucker pitch your products.
But with a name like Schmucker, it HAS to be good.
I recently completed a project that produced two massive documents (2400+ pages together) using a lot of automation; Excel, Word, XML/XSLT, and C# code together in a hot mess. It mostly worked, but there was a lot of stuff that just had to be done manually and laboriously. MS Office was definitely the wrong tool for the job!
I'm taking a little down time to investigate alternative publishing tools, especially ones based on plain text. I found out that LaTeX is actually available at work, and my initial impressions are very positive. The "benefits" of Office 2011 are laughable in comparison.
- Plain-text files are inherently compatible with any editor on any platform.
- The output is always consistent on any platform.
- TeX (the core) has been stable for 20 years, so there is no version compatibility issues.
Ironically, LaTeX really is a relic of the 80's!I plan to move from 08 to 11. I am not too concerned about word, excel or PowerPoint. I am more curious about Outlook. How will it really work in the real world with its windows brother? Of course you'll need exchange 07 or above for it to work.
I have the beta version, and outlook is largely the same as in Windows and works well. I find having one application that integrates e-mail, contacts, and calendar better than 3 separate apps, but that is me.
I sincerely doubt that many (if any) here have used the beta, and yet most here pronounce the product as a failure without ever having used it, although it should not surprise me.
The suite is significantly faster than 08. For better or worse it has the ribbon interface of the windows version. I like the ribbon, but it is an acquired taste to be sure.
As to the suite in general. IIRC, this was hashed out in another thread, but to be honest, there is no better suite if your needs exceed that of a high school student. OpenOffice doesn't cut it, NeoOffice is ok, but not great, and iWork needs a lot of work, with the possible exception of Keynote.
This is just sad. These new "features" (as opposed to features), won't add anything but more confusion. There's nothing in this product, this video, or the MS MBU that inspires the slightest bit of confidence that these guys realise what the big problem with their software is.
Since the first version, people have been saying that Mac Office is over-designed, confusing, and bloated. Here we are in the low teens for version numbers, and ... they are adding new "features." WTF?! They just don't get it. It's as if MS was a late 50's car manufacturer and is just focussing on putting cool fins on what is basically the same model as last year.
How about starting from scratch and designing a product that actually does what people want it to do without having to read an 800 page book to figure out all the "features" and turn off all the crap you don't want? How about a product that focusses like a laser beam on the task at hand instead of a bloated "do everything, but none of it well" office suite that takes over your computer? How about listening to people who *don't* use the product, instead of the endless focus groups of middle manager, Office "lifers" with their wish-lists of "features" they'd like to see?
I've been using beta versions of this product for several months now and it is just plain awesome. It is far more polished and intuitive that 2004 or 2008. It's far more native to the Mac and feels anything but bloated and confusing. I recommend you get your hands on the latest beta found here: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5748520
But with a name like Schmucker, it HAS to be good.
If we don't like it, he's going to jam it down our throats.
How about listening to people who *don't* use the product
Interesting concept. I have to assume you mean it only works one way though. It is not like you are seriously advocating that Apple listen to non-Apple users are you?
You know, in Hebrew / Yiddish, his family name would translate into "serial dick"!!!
OMG, I can't stop laughing!!
Man, what an argument for workplace drug testing...
So the big story with the new Office for Mac is that Microsoft Office is now compatible with Microsoft Office?
Man, what an argument for workplace drug testing...
People here are funny.
So, I was at a conference recently, and a grad student, who made her presentation on a Mac with Office, got up to present, using the default Windows PowerPoint, and all her figures were gone.
So, she tried the version she made in Keynote, saved to ppt, and again, all the figures were gone.
So, yes, full compatibility is a big deal, and I am will to bet that the lack of compatibility is what makes a lot of people bootcamp their Macs.
People here are funny.
So, I was at a conference recently, and a grad student, who made her presentation on a Mac with Office, got up to present, using the default Windows PowerPoint, and all her figures were gone.
So, she tried the version she made in Keynote, saved to ppt, and again, all the figures were gone.
So, yes, full compatibility is a big deal, and I am will to bet that the lack of compatibility is what makes a lot of people bootcamp their Macs.
I think the other user tried to say that the comparability of the same software on different platforms should be a default feature. Not even the feature, more than that - the basic element of the development.
And it is just funny how MS is selling how cool they are by removing those "bugs", when the things looked different. People should not be charged for such "revolutionary improvements".
Though I am happy that Mac users can finally make their Word documents look "extremely professional".
Wish they would make a Mac version of Access.
Absolutely. We use access quite a bit. They shouldn't be able to claim 'full compatibility' unless they have Access on the Mac, too.
VBA is coming in office 2011 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nadyne/archi...ffice-mac.aspx Welcome back macro viruses!
I can live with the viruses - since I'm not foolish enough to open stuff from people I don't trust. But I need VBA (new company that just loves VBA junk), so it will be a welcome addition.
I'll just stick with my Mac Office 2008 until I have completed migrating over to iWork.
I'd love to do the same, but I need VBA.
The formatting differences are annoying, too. It's frustrating to have the same document print differently in Word/Windows and Word/Mac. I'll upgrade. I just hope all the 20,000 new features don't bring it to a screeching halt. My iMac is 2 years old and I don't want to have to replace it just so I can run Office at a reasonable pace.
Better late than never. Compatibility and the ribbon are two major features I love about 2011.
Thanks Microsoft.
I'll be getting 2011, it'll be a HUGE upgrade over 2008.
Then you'll have people complaining that it doesn't behave like a native app.
AH, the paid trolls are showing up.
First, don't ever have a guy named Schmucker pitch your products.
On topic, I think this is good. iWork is ok, but Windows compatibility is still weak. Sounds like MSFT is adding "iWork like" features that Office for Windows might not get, but still offer compatibility. How is that bad? I hate to admit that I still use Office, but it's reality.
Kurt Schmucker used to work for Apple. He was a pretty good programmer and knew a lot about user interface. Maybe he helped MS look up "compatibility" in the dictionary.
Sheldon
VBA: MIA on the mac. This is a huge failure in interoperability
It's back in 2011. I can't speak for the rest of your post, hence my not quoting it.
My iMac is 2 years old and I don't want to have to replace it just so I can run Office at a reasonable pace.
You wont have to. I have a 2 year old MBP, and the beta is rather zippy. It is not slow at all.
AH, the paid trolls are showing up.
paid trolls? where did that come from.
OTOH, maybe you prefer uninformed bashing of a product by people who have never used the product? If that is the case, then you have nothing against the Apple haters, right?