[quote]sam... i know yer sum kinda superhippy 'er sumpthin'<hr></blockquote>
???????!!! whats this "superhippy" BS? Just because I support a concerted effort to find/develop alternative sources of energy that are (a) clean (b) sustainable, and (c) allows the US to become independent of foreign nations (some of whom seem to bear some kind of grudge against us)....why should that make me the target of some stupid and childish slur?
Oh...maybe this is it!...perhaps you are thinking about industrial hemp! You know...hemp, as in the plant cannabis sativa. "Hippies", as you so uncharitably decribe me, apparently smoke it to get high and turn out like John Lennon et al. Remember him of "give peace a chance?" Yes, the dreaded evil weed marijuana!
But regarding industrial hemp, it is also an extraordinarily versatile and hardy plant, which grows pretty much anywhere in this country. Industrial hemp thrives where most plants cannot even begin to. There is vast acreage in this country which cannot support regular cash crops, but can be used for hemp agriculture. If this land were utilized as such, we could grow enough hemp from which enough alcohol could be distilled to run all the cars and trucks and generate *all* our electricity needs. This could easily if necessary be supplemented by hydro, solar, wind, geothermal and tides. The burning of crude oil, coal and natural gas would become an ugly episode of our past. One big problem: it is illegal to cultivate this crop in this country because the cotton, paper, and chemical industry were threatened by it back in the 1930s when they used some ridiculous harebrained campaign without a trace of scientific input to first vilify and then illegitimize it by associating it with some fictitious and laughable symptoms of marijuana intoxication.
[quote]but uh, like it or not, oil is the status quo and energy of choice and it's gonna be that way fer a long long time. it sucks, but there ya go..<hr></blockquote>
As the link suggested, big oil is a contributor to big terror. It is Oil Money that finances the likes of al Qaeda etc. Lets take the US *out* of the oil equation...it can be done, and it must be done...unless we wish to generate a new bunch of baby bin Ladens all vying to "get America". There will still be a market for oil in other nations, so the Arab world isn't suddenly going to go bust. America has enough oil to refine for plastics, pharmaceuticals, chemical etc manufacture but in the end both ours, and Arab/Russian etc oil *WILL* run out...so *all oil producing nations* had best prepare their economies for that inevitable eventuality. Like it or not, oil is a *finite resource*. So is coal and gas. Sorry.
[quote]and driving a oil-slinging boat into a fine sailing vessle ain't gonna stop it or nuclear energy(which by the way, might just save us from big oil).<hr></blockquote>
Nukes are over, done. No nuke has been built in this country for decades, and many of the small companies and contractors that designed and manufactured parts and spares do not exist any longer. The nuke industry is in a similar boat to NASA in that the technology is old, and it is starting to fall apart. Unfortunately we are still left with the legacy of some 90 atomic power-plants which at some point will have to be dismantled, at a cost of some $5 billion each. And everyone is now arguing about where the hell to put that 10,000 year half-life lethal excrement that the nuke industry spews out. Nukes are dead...at least fission is, and a good thing for us all that no more are going to be built. Its bad enough dealing with the mess we have now.
[quote]truth is sam...nothing can stop it. it took a 100 years to make us so dependent on oil, it'll take at least that long to undo it.<hr></blockquote>
You are either a total pessimist, or you work in the oil industry! Oil *will* run out, specially considering the exponential increase in consumption rates as an increasing portion of the rest of the world become aware of, and will want and demand an American type of lifestyle. And don't get me started on global warming and rises in sea-level, caused in part by our fossil-fuel addiction. And yes, you may quote Rush Limbaugh's, or the oil industry's opinion on global warming to me, but I won't give it much credence.
And....hows about using standard English spelling in your posts? I guess "fer" and "sum" and "sumpin" etc. could look cute to a 5th grader, but on a BB, look kinda silly. Sorry, but thats just me being a bit picky. Oh well....
A lot of shooting, a lot of dying. One conclusion. You can never, never, never beat a nation that rather dies than surrenders.
Unless you want to wipe them all out.
Soooooo.....
9/11
GWB: "My fellow Americans. We´re gonna give it another go. We´re gonna try and do what we found out was impossible before."
To speak with another Bush. "Read my lips". Evil begets evil. Until there is peace there will be a lot of killing and it will not stop. The U.S, with all it´s power, can not stop fundamentalists. It is impossible. Israel has been trying it for over 50 years. It is IM-POS-SI-BLE.
You have every right to be affraid. Just because you have right on your side doesn´t mean your way of handling the situation is right. Look at the Basque country here. Spain has been fighting ETA for ages. What they should do is try and get them to agree. Same problem in Ireland. They have been fighting for centuries and it didn´t get Britain anything. You can´t bomb or shoot away centuries of hatred. You have to talk it away. You have to educate it away. And most of all, you have to educate it away in yourself first.
Scott, if the mideast loses their #1 customer then there will be riots and upheavels. But this will only encourage revolutions and the overthrowing of currupt islamic dictatorships. then maybe they can join us in the 21st century.
1) US and the rest of the world go oil free by new power source that cost as much but is cleaner and better.
2) Middle East has no more oil income. Millions out of work. No income. Poverty abounds. Welfare state collapse. Triple digit unemployment.
What do you think will happen? Shinny happy world free of foreign oil? Or something worse than what we have now?</strong><hr></blockquote>Interesting. But the problem is that with all the oil they sell right now they should be the richest countries in the world, and instead they're among the poorest and most backward.
Seems that the natural resources aren't enough - it's the overall political and economic system that's important.
You do know that the intentions of the people who set up these terror attacks is meant for people to worry about their life and worry where and when they will be attacked?
In other words, don't worry too much. If you do indeed worry too much, ?they? already won.
Don't worry folks, life and everything else is in the hand of God.
What? Some you do't believe in God?
Hmm... Then I guess you will be on your own. You do know that it can be scary if you have no firm place to depend on?
Anyay. The events that happen in 11th September 2001 don't cause much damage (at least not maximally) at all, what it cause is... terrorize people and making them panic.
BTW, according to what you have been teached, the events in 11th September 2001 is impossible to happen (Pentagon had a VERY good air defense, and the whole airspace of the United States is at least under strict control). In other words, things are NOT what it seems to be, and while conspiracy does sound ?looney? to some, if you think more about it, it become much more sense.
You are teached that we humans fight each other so much in brutally, this lead you to believe that a nation can fight againts a nation, even to the point of suicide. But... what if... there's an foreign party involved in this, a foreign party that's NOT us.
Folks... We need to include the possibility that there could be a ?foreign party? (who is NOT us, but manipulated us) involved in this, that intentionally try to make us fight each other.
Some disputes/disagreements between two or more nations have a weary future in terms of being solved because to them there is no other alternative besides war, which is quite unfortunate. We can't expect two nations to agree on an issue when thousands of innocent lives have been shut down because of it. As a result, our government as well as most of the American people are either not willing or are reluctant to forgive and find a way to make peace with the Arab nations until justice has been made, whatever that maybe to the Bush administration. Even though I would like to see bin Laden hog-tied and burnt at a stake, this isn't going to solve the crisis. I believe that terrorism in this country will continue for a long, long time until the U.S. wakes up and realizes that in some respects, we provoked the terrorism (Gulf War, etc.) and actually does something about it such as make amends. I would be utterly shocked and heart broken to hear if we had a series of suicide bombings in this country, but I would not be surprised. I remember Yasser Arafat quoting that Palestine's best weapon is the mother's womb. Our country needs to expect what Israel is dealing with at the moment, but maybe not as extreme. Reading the news and realizing that suicide bombings in the U.S. are entirely possible has affected me greatly, and so I believe this country has been stirred up by 9/11. I'm making a mental note to myself to try and avoid large groups at popular places but still have fun. It's a shame that the world has come to this. As of the moment, all we can do is stay alert and keep the safety of our precious country in our prayers.
[quote]I believe that terrorism in this country will continue for a long, long time until the U.S. wakes up and realizes that in some respects, we provoked the terrorism (Gulf War, etc.) and actually does something about it such as make amends. <hr></blockquote>
That is absurd. If we negotiate or change policy due to terror, terror wins. Let me ask you: Who else was going to save Kuwait's *** ? Make amends for what? For having a free economy and a representative democracy? For being the richest nation in the world through free trade? For giving more aid to nations than any other country on the planet? For defending Europe, South Korea, Vietnam, and coutless others? For allowing freedom of speech and assembly, not to mention the press? For having a population that works more hours per year than any other civilized nation? For intervening in conflict after conflict, saving nation after nation, or being the worldwide mediator between two opposite holy religions? Perhaps we should make amends for taking in the tired, poor, sick and hungry?
Perhaps we should apologize! We're sorry! We are SO VERY SORRY for being the first modern democracy on Earth.
BTW, Bush has publicly stated that just finding Bin Laden won't be enough.
As much as I hate to admit it, Scott H ( PHD geez ) has some good points about the oil issue. This problem in The middle east like so many has really been going on long before oil was an issue. It's religious. Or philosophical, ingrained if you will.
The point to ponder here is that because of the world economy, war is really obsolete. Yes, you heard right. We are all dependent on each other. That's the way its' set up nowadays.
Unfortunately, most of the human dunderheads haven't got that straight in their minds yet. But, they will. They will have to.
For the first time in human history war will not bolster your economy like in the good old days ( the best you can expect is good press for awhile ). Because so much is dependent on other countries for the whole thing to work when you attack your neighbor you attack yourself in the long run. And guess what? It's going to continue to be that way more and more.
This has happened because we travel around the globe so easily, there are many more people, and we are slowly running out of resources.
Even the most staunch of patriotic flag wavers shouldn't be upset. This is a good thing.
I know some people will think this is some kind of pipe dream but there is NO alternative really. Well, one but you wouldn't like it.
For thousands of years humans have had this tribal mentality going way back to when we used to huddle in caves. " Don't trust the guys in the next cave ". " It might be warmer or they might have more food ". Or, " They draw strange pictures on the wall. Not like ours ". This kind of slow witted, protruding brow thinking just doesn't fit the framework anymore!
It's kind of poetic really, we are being forced to realize we are after all one society, one race. Forced to grow up. Also forced to realize this little ball of rock we live on is all we have until we learn more about space travel.
I don't see this happening without resistance. Blood will continue to be spilt along the way. But, in the end...........well as the Borg say " Resistance is futile " .
<strong>As much as I hate to admit it, Scott H ( PHD geez ) has some good points about the oil issue. This problem in The middle east like so many has really been going on long before oil was an issue. It's religious. Or philosophical, ingrained if you will.
The point to ponder here is that because of the world economy, war is really obsolete. Yes, you heard right. We are all dependent on each other. That's the way its' set up nowadays.
Unfortunately, most of the human dunderheads haven't got that straight in their minds yet. But, they will. They will have to.
For the first time in human history war will not bolster your economy like in the good old days ( the best you can expect is good press for awhile ). Because so much is dependent on other countries for the whole thing to work when you attack your neighbor you attack yourself in the long run. And guess what? It's going to continue to be that way more and more.
This has happened because we travel around the globe so easily, there are many more people, and we are slowly running out of resources.
Even the most staunch of patriotic flag wavers shouldn't be upset. This is a good thing.
I know some people will think this is some kind of pipe dream but there is NO alternative really. Well, one but you wouldn't like it.
For thousands of years humans have had this tribal mentality going way back to when we used to huddle in caves. " Don't trust the guys in the next cave ". " It might be warmer or they might have more food ". Or, " They draw strange pictures on the wall. Not like ours ". This kind of slow witted, protruding brow thinking just doesn't fit the framework anymore!
It's kind of poetic really, we are being forced to realize we are after all one society, one race. Forced to grow up. Also forced to realize this little ball of rock we live on is all we have until we learn more about space travel.
I don't see this happening without resistance. Blood will continue to be spilt along the way. But, in the end...........well as the Borg say " Resistance is futile " .
In some ways I agree, in others I do not. First, don't fall into the trap that many in the liberal crowd do (no idea where you are politically). Many, like Bill Clinton, mistakenly believe the world is becoming more peaceful. It isn't.
There are many nations that are, as we speak, preparing to eventutally take the US on, so to speak. The big one is China. Most estimates put China's military as "equal to or greater than" ours in about 15-20 years. That may sound like a long time, but time does not have the same meaning in a nation that is 5000 years old as it does here. China resents US influence and will eventually do something about it. They also have stated their desires to retake Taiwan. If they attempt that, there will be a full scale war. Guaranteed.
North Korea is another example. They have 3,000,000 ground troops. No way to get them here, but they'll figure it out. Oh, and BTW, they are pretty close (within 10 years, perhaps even 5) of being able to launch a nuke at us).....missle defense anyone? Yes, I'll have some, thank you!
I agree that linear coneventional war may be coming to an end. But war is not. We should work for peace, but should also have the most massive, prepared military in the world at all times. In another words, "peace through strength", as Reagan said.
I am a liberal ( registered independent ) and over all the world is getting more peaceful. It's just a slow process. The thing is the world doesn't have any other choice now. We have many more important things to worry about.
About the nuclear threat.....well it could happen but they realize ( just like we do ) that there can be no winner in such an exchange.
Another reason why war is obsolete.
I didn't say war was stopping tomorrow. It just isn't profitable any more. The same motivations aren't there. It will grind to halt one day.
Because of the changes taking place in the dynamics between countries the world will be forced to change. I think of this as....... how human. Humans always wait until there is no other choice before they change.
China really doesn't want to attack us, they want our trade. They just have to go through the same tiresome breast beating all coutries do when they feel they have to show how strong they are.
Korea by themselves really can't do much ( except nuclear and we've already covered that )
I know some people are frightened of a world government ( loss of culture and all that ) but, it doesn't have to mean there still won't be Americans and Russians and so on. It just means we will be working together. Much more profitable for all. There is no other choice except oblivion.
I know if you look at indiviual situations it doesn't seem like this is happening. I just thought you might enjoy a look at the forrest for a moment. Not just the trees.
This is interesting. A NJ news source has reported that Arabs are being smuggled into the US via Mexico. What's kind of fishy is that most of the Arabs smuggled in are Egyptian and from the Egyptian town of Bata.
Seems to me that a plan was made in the town of Bata to be carried out here.
I am a liberal ( registered independent ) and over all the world is getting more peaceful. It's just a slow process. The thing is the world doesn't have any other choice now. We have many more important things to worry about.
About the nuclear threat.....well it could happen but they realize ( just like we do ) that there can be no winner in such an exchange.
Another reason why war is obsolete.
I didn't say war was stopping tomorrow. It just isn't profitable any more. The same motivations aren't there. It will grind to halt one day.
Because of the changes taking place in the dynamics between countries the world will be forced to change. I think of this as....... how human. Humans always wait until there is no other choice before they change.
China really doesn't want to attack us, they want our trade. They just have to go through the same tiresome breast beating all coutries do when they feel they have to show how strong they are.
Korea by themselves really can't do much ( except nuclear and we've already covered that )
I know some people are frightened of a world government ( loss of culture and all that ) but, it doesn't have to mean there still won't be Americans and Russians and so on. It just means we will be working together. Much more profitable for all. There is no other choice except oblivion.
I know if you look at indiviual situations it doesn't seem like this is happening. I just thought you might enjoy a look at the forrest for a moment. Not just the trees.
I cannot support a world government. I just don't see that happening.
And, there is but one reason you perceive war as being over: No nation on earth will dare attack one of our allies (or us), because they know they will obliterated if they do. Imagine China taking on Taiwan.....we would intervene. Imagine almost any offical military action by any nation against us or one of our allies, or even "non-enemies"....we would again intervene.
No nation is willing to risk war with the US. At least, not yet. That is why we are left with unoffically sponsored terrorism as the weapon of choice. It is harder to retalliate against.
Once again, the world is not getting more peaceful. Imagine if Iraq had a military equal to ours. Don't you think they'd attack? How about North Korea, Iran, Syria, Lybia, and others? They would attack us the first chance they got. They just can't. So, they resort to terror.
China may be another issue. I still say China wants to trade with us to boost its economy, so that it may rival us as a global power.
Comments
???????!!! whats this "superhippy" BS? Just because I support a concerted effort to find/develop alternative sources of energy that are (a) clean (b) sustainable, and (c) allows the US to become independent of foreign nations (some of whom seem to bear some kind of grudge against us)....why should that make me the target of some stupid and childish slur?
Oh...maybe this is it!...perhaps you are thinking about industrial hemp! You know...hemp, as in the plant cannabis sativa. "Hippies", as you so uncharitably decribe me, apparently smoke it to get high and turn out like John Lennon et al. Remember him of "give peace a chance?" Yes, the dreaded evil weed marijuana!
But regarding industrial hemp, it is also an extraordinarily versatile and hardy plant, which grows pretty much anywhere in this country. Industrial hemp thrives where most plants cannot even begin to. There is vast acreage in this country which cannot support regular cash crops, but can be used for hemp agriculture. If this land were utilized as such, we could grow enough hemp from which enough alcohol could be distilled to run all the cars and trucks and generate *all* our electricity needs. This could easily if necessary be supplemented by hydro, solar, wind, geothermal and tides. The burning of crude oil, coal and natural gas would become an ugly episode of our past. One big problem: it is illegal to cultivate this crop in this country because the cotton, paper, and chemical industry were threatened by it back in the 1930s when they used some ridiculous harebrained campaign without a trace of scientific input to first vilify and then illegitimize it by associating it with some fictitious and laughable symptoms of marijuana intoxication.
[quote]but uh, like it or not, oil is the status quo and energy of choice and it's gonna be that way fer a long long time. it sucks, but there ya go..<hr></blockquote>
As the link suggested, big oil is a contributor to big terror. It is Oil Money that finances the likes of al Qaeda etc. Lets take the US *out* of the oil equation...it can be done, and it must be done...unless we wish to generate a new bunch of baby bin Ladens all vying to "get America". There will still be a market for oil in other nations, so the Arab world isn't suddenly going to go bust. America has enough oil to refine for plastics, pharmaceuticals, chemical etc manufacture but in the end both ours, and Arab/Russian etc oil *WILL* run out...so *all oil producing nations* had best prepare their economies for that inevitable eventuality. Like it or not, oil is a *finite resource*. So is coal and gas. Sorry.
[quote]and driving a oil-slinging boat into a fine sailing vessle ain't gonna stop it or nuclear energy(which by the way, might just save us from big oil).<hr></blockquote>
Nukes are over, done. No nuke has been built in this country for decades, and many of the small companies and contractors that designed and manufactured parts and spares do not exist any longer. The nuke industry is in a similar boat to NASA in that the technology is old, and it is starting to fall apart. Unfortunately we are still left with the legacy of some 90 atomic power-plants which at some point will have to be dismantled, at a cost of some $5 billion each. And everyone is now arguing about where the hell to put that 10,000 year half-life lethal excrement that the nuke industry spews out. Nukes are dead...at least fission is, and a good thing for us all that no more are going to be built. Its bad enough dealing with the mess we have now.
[quote]truth is sam...nothing can stop it. it took a 100 years to make us so dependent on oil, it'll take at least that long to undo it.<hr></blockquote>
You are either a total pessimist, or you work in the oil industry! Oil *will* run out, specially considering the exponential increase in consumption rates as an increasing portion of the rest of the world become aware of, and will want and demand an American type of lifestyle. And don't get me started on global warming and rises in sea-level, caused in part by our fossil-fuel addiction. And yes, you may quote Rush Limbaugh's, or the oil industry's opinion on global warming to me, but I won't give it much credence.
And....hows about using standard English spelling in your posts? I guess "fer" and "sum" and "sumpin" etc. could look cute to a 5th grader, but on a BB, look kinda silly. Sorry, but thats just me being a bit picky. Oh well....
mika.
<strong>
2. Suicide/homocide bombers on a large scale in the mainland US</strong><hr></blockquote>
Homicide...not homocide... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
...now back to your regularly scheduled extremist-left vs. extremist-right flame-war.
Damn the hippies and big-business!
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Was that double barrelled slam aimed at Steve Jobs?
<strong>
Homicide...not homocide... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
...now back to your regularly scheduled extremist-left vs. extremist-right flame-war.
Damn the hippies and big-business!
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks.
Vietnam:
A lot of shooting, a lot of dying. One conclusion. You can never, never, never beat a nation that rather dies than surrenders.
Unless you want to wipe them all out.
Soooooo.....
9/11
GWB: "My fellow Americans. We´re gonna give it another go. We´re gonna try and do what we found out was impossible before."
To speak with another Bush. "Read my lips". Evil begets evil. Until there is peace there will be a lot of killing and it will not stop. The U.S, with all it´s power, can not stop fundamentalists. It is impossible. Israel has been trying it for over 50 years. It is IM-POS-SI-BLE.
You have every right to be affraid. Just because you have right on your side doesn´t mean your way of handling the situation is right. Look at the Basque country here. Spain has been fighting ETA for ages. What they should do is try and get them to agree. Same problem in Ireland. They have been fighting for centuries and it didn´t get Britain anything. You can´t bomb or shoot away centuries of hatred. You have to talk it away. You have to educate it away. And most of all, you have to educate it away in yourself first.
<strong>It's so simple you must be stupid.
1) US and the rest of the world go oil free by new power source that cost as much but is cleaner and better.
2) Middle East has no more oil income. Millions out of work. No income. Poverty abounds. Welfare state collapse. Triple digit unemployment.
What do you think will happen? Shinny happy world free of foreign oil? Or something worse than what we have now?</strong><hr></blockquote>Interesting. But the problem is that with all the oil they sell right now they should be the richest countries in the world, and instead they're among the poorest and most backward.
Seems that the natural resources aren't enough - it's the overall political and economic system that's important.
In other words, don't worry too much. If you do indeed worry too much, ?they? already won.
Don't worry folks, life and everything else is in the hand of God.
What? Some you do't believe in God?
Hmm... Then I guess you will be on your own. You do know that it can be scary if you have no firm place to depend on?
Anyay. The events that happen in 11th September 2001 don't cause much damage (at least not maximally) at all, what it cause is... terrorize people and making them panic.
BTW, according to what you have been teached, the events in 11th September 2001 is impossible to happen (Pentagon had a VERY good air defense, and the whole airspace of the United States is at least under strict control). In other words, things are NOT what it seems to be, and while conspiracy does sound ?looney? to some, if you think more about it, it become much more sense.
You are teached that we humans fight each other so much in brutally, this lead you to believe that a nation can fight againts a nation, even to the point of suicide. But... what if... there's an foreign party involved in this, a foreign party that's NOT us.
Folks... We need to include the possibility that there could be a ?foreign party? (who is NOT us, but manipulated us) involved in this, that intentionally try to make us fight each other.
That is absurd. If we negotiate or change policy due to terror, terror wins. Let me ask you: Who else was going to save Kuwait's *** ? Make amends for what? For having a free economy and a representative democracy? For being the richest nation in the world through free trade? For giving more aid to nations than any other country on the planet? For defending Europe, South Korea, Vietnam, and coutless others? For allowing freedom of speech and assembly, not to mention the press? For having a population that works more hours per year than any other civilized nation? For intervening in conflict after conflict, saving nation after nation, or being the worldwide mediator between two opposite holy religions? Perhaps we should make amends for taking in the tired, poor, sick and hungry?
Perhaps we should apologize! We're sorry! We are SO VERY SORRY for being the first modern democracy on Earth.
BTW, Bush has publicly stated that just finding Bin Laden won't be enough.
[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
The point to ponder here is that because of the world economy, war is really obsolete. Yes, you heard right. We are all dependent on each other. That's the way its' set up nowadays.
Unfortunately, most of the human dunderheads haven't got that straight in their minds yet. But, they will. They will have to.
For the first time in human history war will not bolster your economy like in the good old days ( the best you can expect is good press for awhile ). Because so much is dependent on other countries for the whole thing to work when you attack your neighbor you attack yourself in the long run. And guess what? It's going to continue to be that way more and more.
This has happened because we travel around the globe so easily, there are many more people, and we are slowly running out of resources.
Even the most staunch of patriotic flag wavers shouldn't be upset. This is a good thing.
I know some people will think this is some kind of pipe dream but there is NO alternative really. Well, one but you wouldn't like it.
For thousands of years humans have had this tribal mentality going way back to when we used to huddle in caves. " Don't trust the guys in the next cave ". " It might be warmer or they might have more food ". Or, " They draw strange pictures on the wall. Not like ours ". This kind of slow witted, protruding brow thinking just doesn't fit the framework anymore!
It's kind of poetic really, we are being forced to realize we are after all one society, one race. Forced to grow up. Also forced to realize this little ball of rock we live on is all we have until we learn more about space travel.
I don't see this happening without resistance. Blood will continue to be spilt along the way. But, in the end...........well as the Borg say " Resistance is futile " .
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>As much as I hate to admit it, Scott H ( PHD geez ) has some good points about the oil issue. This problem in The middle east like so many has really been going on long before oil was an issue. It's religious. Or philosophical, ingrained if you will.
The point to ponder here is that because of the world economy, war is really obsolete. Yes, you heard right. We are all dependent on each other. That's the way its' set up nowadays.
Unfortunately, most of the human dunderheads haven't got that straight in their minds yet. But, they will. They will have to.
For the first time in human history war will not bolster your economy like in the good old days ( the best you can expect is good press for awhile ). Because so much is dependent on other countries for the whole thing to work when you attack your neighbor you attack yourself in the long run. And guess what? It's going to continue to be that way more and more.
This has happened because we travel around the globe so easily, there are many more people, and we are slowly running out of resources.
Even the most staunch of patriotic flag wavers shouldn't be upset. This is a good thing.
I know some people will think this is some kind of pipe dream but there is NO alternative really. Well, one but you wouldn't like it.
For thousands of years humans have had this tribal mentality going way back to when we used to huddle in caves. " Don't trust the guys in the next cave ". " It might be warmer or they might have more food ". Or, " They draw strange pictures on the wall. Not like ours ". This kind of slow witted, protruding brow thinking just doesn't fit the framework anymore!
It's kind of poetic really, we are being forced to realize we are after all one society, one race. Forced to grow up. Also forced to realize this little ball of rock we live on is all we have until we learn more about space travel.
I don't see this happening without resistance. Blood will continue to be spilt along the way. But, in the end...........well as the Borg say " Resistance is futile " .
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
In some ways I agree, in others I do not. First, don't fall into the trap that many in the liberal crowd do (no idea where you are politically). Many, like Bill Clinton, mistakenly believe the world is becoming more peaceful. It isn't.
There are many nations that are, as we speak, preparing to eventutally take the US on, so to speak. The big one is China. Most estimates put China's military as "equal to or greater than" ours in about 15-20 years. That may sound like a long time, but time does not have the same meaning in a nation that is 5000 years old as it does here. China resents US influence and will eventually do something about it. They also have stated their desires to retake Taiwan. If they attempt that, there will be a full scale war. Guaranteed.
North Korea is another example. They have 3,000,000 ground troops. No way to get them here, but they'll figure it out. Oh, and BTW, they are pretty close (within 10 years, perhaps even 5) of being able to launch a nuke at us).....missle defense anyone? Yes, I'll have some, thank you!
I agree that linear coneventional war may be coming to an end. But war is not. We should work for peace, but should also have the most massive, prepared military in the world at all times. In another words, "peace through strength", as Reagan said.
It's so simple you must be stupid.
1) US and the rest of the world go oil free by new power source that cost as much but is cleaner and better.
2) Middle East has no more oil income. Millions out of work. No income. Poverty abounds. Welfare state collapse. Triple digit unemployment.
What do you think will happen? Shinny happy world free of foreign oil? Or something worse than what we have now?<hr></blockquote>
Now I wanna hear more about this triple digit unemployment. Did you have a particular digit other than 100 in mind?
I am a liberal ( registered independent ) and over all the world is getting more peaceful. It's just a slow process. The thing is the world doesn't have any other choice now. We have many more important things to worry about.
About the nuclear threat.....well it could happen but they realize ( just like we do ) that there can be no winner in such an exchange.
Another reason why war is obsolete.
I didn't say war was stopping tomorrow. It just isn't profitable any more. The same motivations aren't there. It will grind to halt one day.
Because of the changes taking place in the dynamics between countries the world will be forced to change. I think of this as....... how human. Humans always wait until there is no other choice before they change.
China really doesn't want to attack us, they want our trade. They just have to go through the same tiresome breast beating all coutries do when they feel they have to show how strong they are.
Korea by themselves really can't do much ( except nuclear and we've already covered that )
I know some people are frightened of a world government ( loss of culture and all that ) but, it doesn't have to mean there still won't be Americans and Russians and so on. It just means we will be working together. Much more profitable for all. There is no other choice except oblivion.
I know if you look at indiviual situations it doesn't seem like this is happening. I just thought you might enjoy a look at the forrest for a moment. Not just the trees.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Seems to me that a plan was made in the town of Bata to be carried out here.
Here is the link to the article.
<a href="http://www.northjersey.com/cgi-bin/page.pl?id=3665615"; target="_blank">http://www.northjersey.com/cgi-bin/page.pl?id=3665615</a>;
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Now I wanna hear more about this triple digit unemployment. Did you have a particular digit other than 100 in mind?</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's the one I had in mind. Kind of a joke you know. You see, it's funny because it's imposibe to have 100% unemployment.
<strong>SDW2001,
I am a liberal ( registered independent ) and over all the world is getting more peaceful. It's just a slow process. The thing is the world doesn't have any other choice now. We have many more important things to worry about.
About the nuclear threat.....well it could happen but they realize ( just like we do ) that there can be no winner in such an exchange.
Another reason why war is obsolete.
I didn't say war was stopping tomorrow. It just isn't profitable any more. The same motivations aren't there. It will grind to halt one day.
Because of the changes taking place in the dynamics between countries the world will be forced to change. I think of this as....... how human. Humans always wait until there is no other choice before they change.
China really doesn't want to attack us, they want our trade. They just have to go through the same tiresome breast beating all coutries do when they feel they have to show how strong they are.
Korea by themselves really can't do much ( except nuclear and we've already covered that )
I know some people are frightened of a world government ( loss of culture and all that ) but, it doesn't have to mean there still won't be Americans and Russians and so on. It just means we will be working together. Much more profitable for all. There is no other choice except oblivion.
I know if you look at indiviual situations it doesn't seem like this is happening. I just thought you might enjoy a look at the forrest for a moment. Not just the trees.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I cannot support a world government. I just don't see that happening.
And, there is but one reason you perceive war as being over: No nation on earth will dare attack one of our allies (or us), because they know they will obliterated if they do. Imagine China taking on Taiwan.....we would intervene. Imagine almost any offical military action by any nation against us or one of our allies, or even "non-enemies"....we would again intervene.
No nation is willing to risk war with the US. At least, not yet. That is why we are left with unoffically sponsored terrorism as the weapon of choice. It is harder to retalliate against.
Once again, the world is not getting more peaceful. Imagine if Iraq had a military equal to ours. Don't you think they'd attack? How about North Korea, Iran, Syria, Lybia, and others? They would attack us the first chance they got. They just can't. So, they resort to terror.
China may be another issue. I still say China wants to trade with us to boost its economy, so that it may rival us as a global power.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>