New Apple TV runs same custom A4 processor as iPhone 4, iPad

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  • Reply 81 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post


    1080p or 720p ? Which is better...



    Neither, they would both give you almost identical picture quality at the bit-rates Apple would be putting out. Your getting the same amount of picture data either way. Anything you have on your PC that isn't a 50gb blu-ray rip will not require 1080p.



    We are talking about heavily compressed video here. This is why Apple didn't put 1080p. No reason to. Nothing they stream is high enough quality anyways. Your iTunes purchases are not high enough quality either.



    My 720p downloads have been pretty good. Some are better than others, just as has been true for tape, DVD, and BR. Same thing for cable. Some are very good, and some are not.
  • Reply 82 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    1080i is an interlaced picture. Bad picture, simply made larger.



    720 is a progressive picture. Even when viewed on a 1080p set, it will be superior to an interlaced picture.



    See, your post is an indication of why the industry itself is torn over this issue.
  • Reply 83 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    If you live in an apartment or condo where you can regularly see 15+ networks , you might not want to stream, but want local storage. Streaming does not work in all situations.



    That's why it includes wired ethernet and 5GHz 802.11N.
  • Reply 84 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Absolutely worthless.



    No 1080p hardware support.



    Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.



    Most streaming content isn't available in 1080p. The only service I know of is YouTube, and that's only on a vast minority of videos. Personally I believe you only need 1080p if you have a TV over 50 inches or are using your TV as your computer monitor. Your eyes can't tell the difference at 40 inches or less. Broadcast shows are never in 1080p, and I would guess that even streaming and satellite TV that claim to be 1080p are just unconverted.



    Plus, even though some streaming services may be 1080p, they are still heavily compressed. I'd take a 720p stream with less compression over a 1080p stream with more compression.



    People are just going to buy this thing for Netflix and YouTube instead of the Roku box. I find my PS3 much better as an entertainment system. Hard Drive, 1080p, Blu-ray, full flash enabled web browser, and high def gaming (which it's not even used for! But I can do it!). I just wish it had the iTunes selection for rentals, but Redbox and Netflix are cheaper anyway.



    Where are the Apps? If this thing runs the A4 and an iOS version, why can't there be an App store? I realize that there is no touch interface, but Flickr, YouTube, and Netflix aren't cutting it compared to what was speculated, and compared to the kind of applications you can use on things like Blu-ray players, Samsung TVs, etc. (Or my PS3)







    Here's what I want though...how about a box like this running a 1Ghz ARM...with Linux installed! Where's my GeekTV!? Anyway, that's another subject.
  • Reply 85 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post




    Where are the Apps? If this thing runs the A4 and an iOS version, why can't there be an App store? I realize that there is no touch interface, but Flickr, YouTube, and Netflix aren't cutting it compared to what was speculated, and compared to the kind of applications you can use on things like Blu-ray players, Samsung TVs, etc. (Or my PS3)



    There is a possibility we might get apps later. After all, we didn't get them for the phone until a year later. Possibly they have to work out the issues of the multitouch requirements of iOS apps. How would you use them with this right now? Hopefully, they're working on some way for the iOS devices to control them. That could take a while to get right. We all know that Apple won't add a feature until they think they got it right.
  • Reply 86 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't use Handbreak, but don't they offer you options as to how you would want the files to be saved? If so, check out their info, and see how you saved them.



    Yes, but of course I save them at the same pixel profile as the source, which often exceeds 640 x 480. I never have any trouble playing back any size .mp4 file on my Mac Mini using the video-out to the VGA-in of my 46-inch 1080p Samsung HDTV (the result is always excellent), but apparently this new Apple TV unit won't be able to handle, say, a 720 x 420 .mp4 file at all, if this AppleInsider report is to be believed. So my question is whether this is correct, and the new unit therefore marks a major step backwards in legacy compatibility vis-Ã*-vis just feeding direct from one's Mac.



    Thanks again for any help you can provide.
  • Reply 87 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iedsri View Post


    Yes, but of course I save them at the same pixel profile as the source, which often exceeds 640 x 480. I never have any trouble playing back any size .mp4 file on my Mac Mini using the video-out to the VGA-in of my 46-inch 1080p Samsung HDTV (the result is always excellent), but apparently this new Apple TV unit won't be able to handle, say, a 720 x 420 .mp4 file at all, if this AppleInsider report is to be believed. So my question is whether this is correct, and the new unit therefore marks a major step backwards in legacy compatibility vis-Ã*-vis just feeding direct from one's Mac.



    Thanks again for any help you can provide.



    The tech specs say 640 x 480 mpeg 4, so that's the max it will support, unless it will allow 720 x 480 in, but pass it out as 640 x 480. I'd wait a week or two and see what happens on the tech sites. But we really need to see when it finally comes out and people start playing with it.
  • Reply 88 of 156
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member
    In most cases, the different between 720P and 1080P are unnoticeable. Unless you have a 46 inch + TV monitor. ( Although the trend is that most are buying bigger TV sets anyway.... so 720P isn't very forward looking )



    But the problem with Apple TV and 1080P is streaming. You cant not stream a 1080P through Internet. You can barely do that in Korea or Japan, Hong Kong or Singapore where there are 1 Gbps Internet FTTH. And that is only a small portion of the total net population. So i dont expect US and Europe can do it.



    But i am surprised and angry why Apple still hasn't decide to use Mepg 4 High Profile and instead sticking to Main Profile 3.1. I would much rather they support High Profile then 1080P. The difference is quality is substantial.
  • Reply 89 of 156
    patspats Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iedsri View Post


    Can someone answer this question for me? The article's writer reports:



    "MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats."



    Now for several years I've been HandBraking movies and TV shows as "legacy" .mp4 files not because I think it's the "best" format, but simply because I figured it was almost certain to be readable by a wide range of present and future machines. As my technology has improved, however, I've found that my mp4s often save at well over 640 x 480. So does the statement above mean that the forthcoming Apple TV won't be able to play this large and ever-increasing part of my collection?



    Thanks for your help.





    iedsri



    Think it will depend on the bit rate. I use the H.264 encoder on handbrake with the ATV presets but if you have a choice the H.264 should be hardware accelerated in the new ATV since it's using the A4 so I would pick that since it is a better overall codec
  • Reply 90 of 156
    gmacgmac Posts: 79member
    This new Apple TV is all about apps. Runs iOS, built on A4. How hard for them to make an SDK to build aps for this where ipod/iphone/ipad is controller. Games seen on screen on apple tv but controlled by iPhone.
  • Reply 91 of 156
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jglavin View Post


    There may not be any commercial 1080p streaming content, but you are ignoring the fact that you can easily stream 1080p h.264 content over 802.11n from your own file server.



    Legally?



    And legality aside, "your own file server" immediately throws this as an extreme edge case.



    Your not in the target market for the Apple TV. Nothing to see here, move along.
  • Reply 92 of 156
    patspats Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gmac View Post


    This new Apple TV is all about apps. Runs iOS, built on A4. How hard for them to make an SDK to build aps for this where ipod/iphone/ipad is controller. Games seen on screen on apple tv but controlled by iPhone.



    Interesting take,but I would wait until they release an SDK before assuming that Apple is moving that direction. The use of the A4 means you can run IOS on the new ATV but then the cocoa touch layer of the UI needs to be rethought and architected for the TV. I agree that Apple will get there and chances of backward compatibility are good but I wouldn't be buying this just yet as a gaming machine. Depending how they implemented the Airplay, developers may be able to use it to mirror a game from the iPad/Iphone, but we will need to wait for the 4.2 beta.
  • Reply 93 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gmac View Post


    This new Apple TV is all about apps. Runs iOS, built on A4. How hard for them to make an SDK to build aps for this where ipod/iphone/ipad is controller. Games seen on screen on apple tv but controlled by iPhone.



    I already brought that up. Do you think they can do this all at once? Assuming that they want to, it will take time. Look how much longer it's taking to get 4.x to our iPads! I would think that 4.1 and 4.2 are higher priorities right now.
  • Reply 94 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    ... I would need a 103" diag. screen, and I'm not spending the $100 grand a plasma or LCD costs, or going to bother with a front projector at this time (a good one is at least $7,000 right now,



    A $7000 pj may have been $70,000 about five years ago. Replacement lamps, about $2000.



    I understand that's still pricey for most people. We all have our comfort zones. I was happy to have taken as long as I did... after all how many projects get cheaper as time goes on?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    ... I'm also not interested in screwing up my audio system by moving five feet closer.



    Yes. Clearly you understand how everything's interrelated. This home theater was one of my most vexing projects... and I'm an engineer.



    My next one will be even better.
  • Reply 95 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I already brought that up. Do you think they can do this all at once? Assuming that they want to, it will take time. Look how much longer it's taking to get 4.x to our iPads! I would think that 4.1 and 4.2 are higher priorities right now.



    I honestly don't think it would take much. The HW is the same, the OS is the same the screen resolution is different but iOS has resolution independence and would be trivial to write apps that are native for the screen. They have the distribution app store already. I really don't think it would take Apple much to create an app store for apple TV.



    There's so much cool stuff they could do with an iPhone controlling apple tv apps that are on your big screen. And rumour is the device has bluetooth and so that would make the control function even better than Wifi (PS3 uses bluetooth for its controller)
  • Reply 96 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post


    I must disagree - I find the fact that I can stream from my iPad/iPhone worth the cost alone. But to be able to rent movies/TV programs view podcasts, listen to music, view pictures from friends/family makes it great. Not a blockbuster but a good product - especially for $99.



    1080? come on people! Not all of us have the "big fat pipes" yall may have. I am still on 1.5MB! 1080 would take forever to download and plus most say that unless the TV is over 50", it's not that much different.
  • Reply 97 of 156
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    1080i is an interlaced picture. Bad picture, simply made larger.



    Only on a device with a low persistence display, like a phosphor based CRT.



    i or p makes no difference to an LCD. The state of the pixel doesn't change until the next frame with an LCD. As others pointed out, I often prefer 720p as 720p usually has a higher effective bandwith.



    Not sure about plasmas, but I think they are like CRTs - p is better than i for the most part.



    I still prefer my three CRT rear projection TV. Sure I have to calibrate and clean it every once in a while, but the picture it produces beats the pants off of any LCD - watching movies on it is a joy (no grey goo!). I was very disappointed when Canon abandoned SED A sad day indeed.



    With nothing promising on the horizon, guess I need to pick up a plasma before they disappear I just can't stand LCDs for TV - even the newer ones with the higher processing - I can see clipping and the "LCD motion blur" - response times are better, but it's still distracting to me. Something still is crystal clear, then with some movement it's motion blur city.
  • Reply 98 of 156
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I doubt very much that you can either from any normal seating position. You really have to sit CLOSE.



    Define normal? Any guide from a home cinema pro will give you a screen size to viewing distance ratio that makes 1080p noticeable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Very few people sit close enough to get 1080 out of their sets.



    Reference or anecdotal?
  • Reply 99 of 156
    All in all I'm pretty unimpressed by the entire presentation. I like a lot of what they showed, and I don't particularly dislike anything, but it's all just plain boring. Chris Martin was far and away the best part of the show!



    The Apple TV is obviously still a hobby. AirPlay might be good for an iWank when guests come over, but otherwise it's not really useful. I like the price tag, but I'm really left searching for something to be excited about... and then Steve tries to say one of the main requests for Apple TV was that is was to be smaller. Really Steve? Really? Seems like a pretty big coincidence to me .



    720p only, streaming rentals only, no games\\apps. Overall impression... snore.



    New iPod touch? Every announcement could be responded to with "well duh". Same goes with iPad, although I will like the ability to print wireless (but seriously, can anyone get excited about the ability to print? I didn't think so.)



    New Nano and Shuffle... well they at least look nice. Very Apple. To be fair there isn't much room to move in the Nano\\Shuffle market. Price\\battery life is more important than features and if they made they any smaller they would just be a pair of headphones!



    Game Center sounds promising, but I wish they would have announced they were buying OpenFeint and Plus+ and rolling all OpenFeint and Plus+ games into Game Center. As it stands the gaming functionality will be very fragmented which defeats the entire purpose of a social gaming platform.



    Ping == boring. Some kind of iTunes to Facebook integration would have at least been a little more exciting. It's basically impossible to completely live within the Apple eco-system to make the most out of their products as it stands... now all of your friends have to as well? I don't think so Steve. A Pandora-like Genius playlist generator would have been better.



    The entire presentation just felt like foundation building for the "real" announcements that will come next year.
  • Reply 100 of 156
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by john galt View Post


    A $7000 pj may have been $70,000 about five years ago. Replacement lamps, about $2000.



    I understand that's still pricey for most people. We all have our comfort zones. I was happy to have taken as long as I did... after all how many projects get cheaper as time goes on?







    Yes. Clearly you understand how everything's interrelated. This home theater was one of my most vexing projects... and I'm an engineer.



    My next one will be even better.



    Yes, I was a partner in a professional audio product manufacturing company years ago. This isn't a simple thing to get right. But there are a few things to do that will get people on the right path, but only if they are willing to listen. Many aren't.
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