[quote]You can attempt to justify all you want. Marketing thongs to little girls, especially with those words on them is simply wrong. And yes, Eugene, there is a difference between "right" and "wrong" that we should all agree on for the most part, and on most issues. Or have you become so ridiculously liberal that you no longer believe there is a "right" or "wrong", rather only opposing viewpoints? Or worse, have you gone so far to the left that you believe that "right" and "wrong" do not exist, only consequences?.<hr></blockquote>
The only real material difference between right and wrong is one isn't the other.
Artman, no, I only have the one shirt and I would have absolutely no problems with you wearing one. That's my whole point...you guys seem to be in disbelief, I feel sorry for you.
Groverat, you are saying this type of product is a symptom of what's wrong with the world, what might teach good little girls to be bad little girls. The real error here is teaching whomever they would be sluts for wearing a piece of clothing. Isn't that superficial?
1. I am for responsible parenting. And, I doubt it is only conservatives making the statement that parents should guide children. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You're probably right. Anyone will say anything to win an election, but consetatives, from what i've noticed, scream about it more. My point, however, was that if you disagree with it, don't buy it for your child.
[quote]<strong>2. I don't question the demand. I think it is crude, and inappropriate, and I vow I would never buy anything like that once I have kids.
But, then again, weed is in demand too....so I guess you are saying that is OK? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that this is a discussion for another thread, but yes.
[quote]<strong>3. I said theory, not research. But, it is a proven fact that girls are starting to get their periods when they are younger (of course not all of them). The thinking is that the brain is stimulated by images, sounds ,etc at the subconscious level. The "losing my hair" comment is funny, but not applicable. A girl getting her period could very well be a psychosomatic response (meaning one that is real, but caused by an external factor....the best example being someone "making himself sick" over stress, etc.). Hair loss is generally not, but rather genetic. Of course, I'm sure that some families have early mensturation in their genes too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I realize that this is a proven fact. But if this were the case, are boys starting to ejaculate at a younger age too? (this is a serious questions-i don't know if they are or not.) if it were a psychosomatic response, it should affect the boys too. Or are boys mentally stronger than girls, and thus able to resist the influences? I don't know, I guess this sounds plausible, but i still think it's far fetched. menstration (and ejaculation, let's be equal opportunity here) are rather important functions, from an evolutionary stand point, hell from a survival standpoint, one could argue that breating, your heart beating, etc happen only to provide support to the reproductive organs. I find it hard to believe that a function as important as tis could be so easily manipulated. besides, the age at which girls have begun to get their periods has been going down for decades. i don't think that there was much sexually suggestive television or thong underwear being sold to girls in the fifties.
Stroszek, actually, the most common pointed-finger regarding the earlier secondary sexual development of young girls is recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH.) Bigger udders = more dairy production. It's in the milk we get from the supermarket. It's in cheese. It's in ice cream. Unfortunately, it mildly affects humans too.
In fact, more adolescent boys are suffering the same symptoms...They aren't having wet dreams earlier, they're growing breasts! (gynecomastia)
But I can see certain people would rather stick to junk science and preconceived values incompatible with the future.
<strong>Stroszek, actually, the most common pointed-finger regarding the earlier secondary sexual development of young girls is recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH.) It's in the milk we get from the supermarket. It's in cheese. It's in ice cream.
In fact, more adolescent boys are suffering the same symptoms...They aren't having wet dreams earlier, they're growing breasts! (gynecomastia)
But I can see certain people would rather stick to junk science and preconceived values that are incompatible with the future.
thanks for the info. i thought it was something like this, but i couldn't remember any details, so i didn't bother to mention it as to not make an a§§ out of myself.
*whew* i guess it's a good thing i don't drink milk, huh?
Those are completely harmless to me. I don't see how they are negative, but then again I'm not Asian. The same rights allow people to protest them that allow A&F to make them.
[quote]Groverat, you are saying this type of product is a symptom of what's wrong with the world, what might teach good little girls to be bad little girls. The real error here is teaching whomever they would be sluts for wearing a piece of clothing. Isn't that superficial?<hr></blockquote>
There is a difference between theory and reality. I can't imagine a scenario where a parent who thinks their child shouldn't be a sexual creature at 10 would see thongs for little girls that say "eye candy" and think "Gee, what a fantastic product!"
There are two options in my mind:
1) The mother doesn't think about it, it's a popular store. This is probably the main one, they just don't pay attention to what's going on and (perhaps) inadvertantly get underwear that advertises their 10-year-old's vagina as eye candy.
2) The mother thinks it's cute (I cannot imagine any father buying these). If a mother has actually thought about it and thinks it's cute... then sweet Jesus I don't know what to say. Using my stereotypical view of the world (the same one you're using to paint everyone who disagrees with you on this subject as puritanical morons), I would think that these women have been taught over the years to ignore obvious signs that they were raised to be fsck-holes for men. Not that they actively think "I want my daughter to become sexually active at 12 and have her first child at 15," of course, that would be too simple.
The problem here is that it's not like this will be the only thing in that 10-year-old's life that will be a problem. This is a SYMPTOM.
Whoever feels strongly against A&F policy of marketing thongs to 10-14 year olds, there is but one course of action:
Boycott Abercrombie & Fitch, for good, period. Don't ever buy another of their products for the rest of your life. Their most sensitive spot by far is that bottom line.
That's because boys, as far as I know, have the capability to ejaculate earlier. Even young boys can get erections. They just don't know why.
As I said, I subscribe to the theory that America is oversexed, and yet also very uptight about it. I think this contributes to young girls developing earlier.
[quote]The only real material difference between right and wrong is one isn't the other. <hr></blockquote>
What? I hope you are kidding, because if not, it's worse than I imagined. .......Well, you ARE from Berkeley, I suppose....well known as the most liberal city in the nation.
If you believe your statement, then this is literally what's wrong with America today. A basic sense of right and wrong is what guides society. Your attitude is the very defintion of "moral collapse".
Let me ask you, is it wrong to murder your neighbor because you don't like him? Is is wrong to lie? Is it wrong steal? Is it wrong to beat your wife? Is it wrong to throw excrement at your boss?
Liberals LOVE to justify things. I agree that sometimes there are gray areas, but there is often a "right" and a "wrong".
I guess I've always had a de facto boycott of A&F going. I always thought they were stupid and trendy and thus have never bought a piece of A&F clothing.
<strong>Oh god, AppleOutsider is going to be jumping next week. That's when A&F is releasing their new line of juvenile diaphrams. With cute little phrases on them. To keep the innocence.</strong><hr></blockquote>
While I am willing to argue that A&F is a major contributor to the decline and fall of good taste in America, I have to ask about the thongs-for-kids. is anyone going to be seeing them other than the mom or dad who does the laundry, and maybe the girls in PE? I think most kids that see these things are going to associate them with halloween candy, much like my ten year old god-daughter who likes to wear <a href="http://www.thecucumbersandwich.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jpincqr4"; target="_blank">Paul Frank</a>. I doubt her mother would buy these for her, although she has a few of the t-shirts and a change purse. I also doubt that she would get any double meaning from them (I don't think one was meant, in PF's case). I suppose it is just the role of parenting to make these choices for your children. But I still say everything A&F is doing is to stir up debate and get some free press. And they seem to be very successful, even right here.
<edit> Paul Frank is actually marketed to <a href="http://www.paulfrankisyourfriend.com/"; target="_blank">adults</a>, but have become a fad with school age girls in SoCal </edit>
Eugene. Hope the last reply I made wasn't misunderstood by you.
I just find it odd that you yourself would wear the "Wong Brothers Laundry Service - Two Wongs Can Make it White" T-shirt that many other Asians despise... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
But I guess my Dead Kennedy's "Too Drunk to ****" could fall into this situation...
From article..."It's cute and fun and sweet," said Hampton Carney, spokesman for the company (A&F) based in New Albany, Ohio. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Comments
<strong>"No matter what people say, the Nets will beat the Celtics!"
Ha! Don't think so...</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Thats what you think!
The only real material difference between right and wrong is one isn't the other.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Groverat, you are saying this type of product is a symptom of what's wrong with the world, what might teach good little girls to be bad little girls. The real error here is teaching whomever they would be sluts for wearing a piece of clothing. Isn't that superficial?
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>
1. I am for responsible parenting. And, I doubt it is only conservatives making the statement that parents should guide children. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You're probably right. Anyone will say anything to win an election, but consetatives, from what i've noticed, scream about it more. My point, however, was that if you disagree with it, don't buy it for your child.
[quote]<strong>2. I don't question the demand. I think it is crude, and inappropriate, and I vow I would never buy anything like that once I have kids.
But, then again, weed is in demand too....so I guess you are saying that is OK? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that this is a discussion for another thread, but yes.
[quote]<strong>3. I said theory, not research. But, it is a proven fact that girls are starting to get their periods when they are younger (of course not all of them). The thinking is that the brain is stimulated by images, sounds ,etc at the subconscious level. The "losing my hair" comment is funny, but not applicable. A girl getting her period could very well be a psychosomatic response (meaning one that is real, but caused by an external factor....the best example being someone "making himself sick" over stress, etc.). Hair loss is generally not, but rather genetic. Of course, I'm sure that some families have early mensturation in their genes too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I realize that this is a proven fact. But if this were the case, are boys starting to ejaculate at a younger age too? (this is a serious questions-i don't know if they are or not.) if it were a psychosomatic response, it should affect the boys too. Or are boys mentally stronger than girls, and thus able to resist the influences? I don't know, I guess this sounds plausible, but i still think it's far fetched. menstration (and ejaculation, let's be equal opportunity here) are rather important functions, from an evolutionary stand point, hell from a survival standpoint, one could argue that breating, your heart beating, etc happen only to provide support to the reproductive organs. I find it hard to believe that a function as important as tis could be so easily manipulated. besides, the age at which girls have begun to get their periods has been going down for decades. i don't think that there was much sexually suggestive television or thong underwear being sold to girls in the fifties.
my 2¢.
In fact, more adolescent boys are suffering the same symptoms...They aren't having wet dreams earlier, they're growing breasts! (gynecomastia)
But I can see certain people would rather stick to junk science and preconceived values incompatible with the future.
KID THONGS = EVIL!
The End.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>Stroszek, actually, the most common pointed-finger regarding the earlier secondary sexual development of young girls is recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH.) It's in the milk we get from the supermarket. It's in cheese. It's in ice cream.
In fact, more adolescent boys are suffering the same symptoms...They aren't having wet dreams earlier, they're growing breasts! (gynecomastia)
But I can see certain people would rather stick to junk science and preconceived values that are incompatible with the future.
KID THONGS = EVIL!
The End.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
thanks for the info. i thought it was something like this, but i couldn't remember any details, so i didn't bother to mention it as to not make an a§§ out of myself.
*whew* i guess it's a good thing i don't drink milk, huh?
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Stroszek ]</p>
Those are completely harmless to me. I don't see how they are negative, but then again I'm not Asian. The same rights allow people to protest them that allow A&F to make them.
[quote]Groverat, you are saying this type of product is a symptom of what's wrong with the world, what might teach good little girls to be bad little girls. The real error here is teaching whomever they would be sluts for wearing a piece of clothing. Isn't that superficial?<hr></blockquote>
There is a difference between theory and reality. I can't imagine a scenario where a parent who thinks their child shouldn't be a sexual creature at 10 would see thongs for little girls that say "eye candy" and think "Gee, what a fantastic product!"
There are two options in my mind:
1) The mother doesn't think about it, it's a popular store. This is probably the main one, they just don't pay attention to what's going on and (perhaps) inadvertantly get underwear that advertises their 10-year-old's vagina as eye candy.
2) The mother thinks it's cute (I cannot imagine any father buying these). If a mother has actually thought about it and thinks it's cute... then sweet Jesus I don't know what to say. Using my stereotypical view of the world (the same one you're using to paint everyone who disagrees with you on this subject as puritanical morons), I would think that these women have been taught over the years to ignore obvious signs that they were raised to be fsck-holes for men. Not that they actively think "I want my daughter to become sexually active at 12 and have her first child at 15," of course, that would be too simple.
The problem here is that it's not like this will be the only thing in that 10-year-old's life that will be a problem. This is a SYMPTOM.
Boycott Abercrombie & Fitch, for good, period. Don't ever buy another of their products for the rest of your life. Their most sensitive spot by far is that bottom line.
As I said, I subscribe to the theory that America is oversexed, and yet also very uptight about it. I think this contributes to young girls developing earlier.
[quote]The only real material difference between right and wrong is one isn't the other. <hr></blockquote>
What? I hope you are kidding, because if not, it's worse than I imagined. .......Well, you ARE from Berkeley, I suppose....well known as the most liberal city in the nation.
If you believe your statement, then this is literally what's wrong with America today. A basic sense of right and wrong is what guides society. Your attitude is the very defintion of "moral collapse".
Let me ask you, is it wrong to murder your neighbor because you don't like him? Is is wrong to lie? Is it wrong steal? Is it wrong to beat your wife? Is it wrong to throw excrement at your boss?
Liberals LOVE to justify things. I agree that sometimes there are gray areas, but there is often a "right" and a "wrong".
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I went to school in Berkeley. I am not from Berkeley. If I went to Duke, would I be from Durham, NC?
I guess I should change my location since I'm an alum.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<a href="http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/may02/43941.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/may02/43941.asp</a>;
<strong>Oh god, AppleOutsider is going to be jumping next week. That's when A&F is releasing their new line of juvenile diaphrams. With cute little phrases on them. To keep the innocence.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
While I am willing to argue that A&F is a major contributor to the decline and fall of good taste in America, I have to ask about the thongs-for-kids. is anyone going to be seeing them other than the mom or dad who does the laundry, and maybe the girls in PE? I think most kids that see these things are going to associate them with halloween candy, much like my ten year old god-daughter who likes to wear <a href="http://www.thecucumbersandwich.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jpincqr4"; target="_blank">Paul Frank</a>. I doubt her mother would buy these for her, although she has a few of the t-shirts and a change purse. I also doubt that she would get any double meaning from them (I don't think one was meant, in PF's case). I suppose it is just the role of parenting to make these choices for your children. But I still say everything A&F is doing is to stir up debate and get some free press. And they seem to be very successful, even right here.
<edit> Paul Frank is actually marketed to <a href="http://www.paulfrankisyourfriend.com/"; target="_blank">adults</a>, but have become a fad with school age girls in SoCal </edit>
[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: tmp ]</p>
I just find it odd that you yourself would wear the "Wong Brothers Laundry Service - Two Wongs Can Make it White" T-shirt that many other Asians despise... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
But I guess my Dead Kennedy's "Too Drunk to ****" could fall into this situation...
From article..."It's cute and fun and sweet," said Hampton Carney, spokesman for the company (A&F) based in New Albany, Ohio.