The theory of planned obsolescence isn't impossible, but it isn't very likely the reality of what happened.
If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
of course I have no support, no facts, anything. I think that's rather obvious. Only frustration, and wondering what the hell is going on. So I made a snide remark about it, and feel justified since it's a major piss off, and everyone gets their panties in a bunch.
The theory of planned obsolescence isn't impossible, but it isn't very likely the reality of what happened.
If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.
you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.
add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
I'm in the same boat with you. I have a 3G that I bought the day the 3G first launched. I'm having all the freezing issues also. I hope and pray this upgrade works.
I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.
add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. It certainly is the case here. Anyone who has worked on and shipped any serious piece of software should be able to tell you that this sort of mistake can and does happen. Testing can attempt to catch these problems, but doesn't guarantee it. Apple's testing emphasis was undoubtably the iPhone4 since it was new hardware, but they will also have had 3Gs and 3GSs in their testing matrix... but that doesn't guarantee that they would have seen the slow-down problems. Without knowing exactly what the problem(s) are, it is impossible to say how it was possible that their testing didn't catch the issue. It may also have manifested late in testing and not shown up as very bad so they decided to ship it with a plan to figure it out and fix it later... only it turned out to be much worse in the wild. And don't make the mistake of belittling them over it because it can and does happen to all developers. Problems in a company's development process show up in how often it happens, and how they deal with it when it does. Apple's track record in both areas is not perfect, but is generally pretty good.
Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.
As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.
I'm in the same boat with you. I have a 3G that I bought the day the 3G first launched. I'm having all the freezing issues also. I hope and pray this upgrade works.
I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.
same here for my two iPhone 3g's
competition will help, i wont switch to verizon, i like ATT, but i'm looking for more value for my next
Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. It certainly is the case here. Anyone who has worked on and shipped any serious piece of software should be able to tell you that this sort of mistake can and does happen. Testing can attempt to catch these problems, but doesn't guarantee it. Apple's testing emphasis was undoubtably the iPhone4 since it was new hardware, but they will also have had 3Gs and 3GSs in their testing matrix... but that doesn't guarantee that they would have seen the slow-down problems. Without knowing exactly what the problem(s) are, it is impossible to say how it was possible that their testing didn't catch the issue. It may also have manifested late in testing and not shown up as very bad so they decided to ship it with a plan to figure it out and fix it later... only it turned out to be much worse in the wild. And don't make the mistake of belittling them over it because it can and does happen to all developers. Problems in a company's development process show up in how often it happens, and how they deal with it when it does. Apple's track record in both areas is not perfect, but is generally pretty good.
Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.
As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.
That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.
Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
Time to downgrade again....
I did a straight install and haven't rebooted since.
Safari boot & control is about 3s. SMS is about 3s. Mail is about 2s. Camera is about 4s. Taking a call is really smooth. I do notice that if I go through a series of apps in quick succession the ones after the first boot a little slower. This suggests to me that it might be a memory pressure issue, so the difference between our phones could be how complex the mail accounts are (although mine are pretty complex), how much you have push notifications turned on, webpages you leave open, and other things which impact the global memory state of the phone.
Its been a while since I used 3.x on the phone, but I don't remember it being notably faster before.
Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.
Apple has issues with their testing methods, period. They need to revamp their testing program. The above doesn't explain their iPhone 4 antenna issue and proximity sensor problem, both issues on a brand new design, not a previous iPhone model.
I have a 3G with all the same issues. I'm going to call AT&T a whine and shout and get them to issue me a markdown and/or a free telephone. I have a companion that said he did that and burned through 4 hours forward and backward in the middle of at&t and apple… (he said he was a bastard in regards to it) yet at last he got a free 3G with the old programming (they had in stock still) AND $50 off an iPhone 4 AND $30 off his month to month bill. I think we ought to all do that and possibly they may begin focusing!
Comments
If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.
of course I have no support, no facts, anything. I think that's rather obvious. Only frustration, and wondering what the hell is going on. So I made a snide remark about it, and feel justified since it's a major piss off, and everyone gets their panties in a bunch.
The theory of planned obsolescence isn't impossible, but it isn't very likely the reality of what happened.
If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.
you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.
add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.
you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.
add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.
As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.
I'm in the same boat with you. I have a 3G that I bought the day the 3G first launched. I'm having all the freezing issues also. I hope and pray this upgrade works.
I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.
same here for my two iPhone 3g's
competition will help, i wont switch to verizon, i like ATT, but i'm looking for more value for my next
2years.
Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. It certainly is the case here. Anyone who has worked on and shipped any serious piece of software should be able to tell you that this sort of mistake can and does happen. Testing can attempt to catch these problems, but doesn't guarantee it. Apple's testing emphasis was undoubtably the iPhone4 since it was new hardware, but they will also have had 3Gs and 3GSs in their testing matrix... but that doesn't guarantee that they would have seen the slow-down problems. Without knowing exactly what the problem(s) are, it is impossible to say how it was possible that their testing didn't catch the issue. It may also have manifested late in testing and not shown up as very bad so they decided to ship it with a plan to figure it out and fix it later... only it turned out to be much worse in the wild. And don't make the mistake of belittling them over it because it can and does happen to all developers. Problems in a company's development process show up in how often it happens, and how they deal with it when it does. Apple's track record in both areas is not perfect, but is generally pretty good.
Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.
As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.
That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
Time to downgrade again....
That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.
Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.
Credentials: PhD in Engineering
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
Time to downgrade again....
I did a straight install and haven't rebooted since.
Safari boot & control is about 3s. SMS is about 3s. Mail is about 2s. Camera is about 4s. Taking a call is really smooth. I do notice that if I go through a series of apps in quick succession the ones after the first boot a little slower. This suggests to me that it might be a memory pressure issue, so the difference between our phones could be how complex the mail accounts are (although mine are pretty complex), how much you have push notifications turned on, webpages you leave open, and other things which impact the global memory state of the phone.
Its been a while since I used 3.x on the phone, but I don't remember it being notably faster before.
Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.
Apple has issues with their testing methods, period. They need to revamp their testing program. The above doesn't explain their iPhone 4 antenna issue and proximity sensor problem, both issues on a brand new design, not a previous iPhone model.
I have a 3G with all the same issues. I'm going to call AT&T a whine and shout and get them to issue me a markdown and/or a free telephone. I have a companion that said he did that and burned through 4 hours forward and backward in the middle of at&t and apple… (he said he was a bastard in regards to it) yet at last he got a free 3G with the old programming (they had in stock still) AND $50 off an iPhone 4 AND $30 off his month to month bill. I think we ought to all do that and possibly they may begin focusing!
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