Where in the country are current "HPSA+ upgrades" being utilized, and can anyone tell the difference with current iphone download and upload speeds? Also, wasn't this the "problem" that ATT admitted they had with software at some sites, shortly after the iP4 was introduced in June?
Minneapolis is 'fixed' as of Mid August (the problem was Alcatel/Lucent SW bugs wasn't stable once you actually pushed upload speeds above HSPA speeds, hence they had to downgrade/cap upload speeds).
Unfortunately, they are still woefully under towered and backhauled in the downtown areas, including a 1bar-deadzone in the building where I work ;-(
But Apple has proven historically resistant to adding features just to placate the spec triumphalists, and certainly doesn't seem much concerned with matching Android tit for tat.
In fact, they're well know for holding the line on new features even when their own customers seem ready to riot. I think it all comes down to numbers. If LTE deployment covers enough people to make it a widely useful, then sure. If not, I don't see any way Apple would go there just for bragging rights.
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
Again, my only caveat is that if it requires a separate LTE only phone that won't work on other networks as well, then they might not do it.
Sprint Customers use WiMAX which is not LTE compatible, so it's sort of apples (no pun) to oranges. As for price, they appear to be between 40, 45, and 50 for (currently) unlimited WiMax only, and $60 for 3G/WiMax unlimited.
And I think you worry about the wrong things. The three questions are
1) when does the Apple ATT exclusivity agreement end
2) Will Verizon have a compelling LTE rollout by Xmas to have Apple consider them in addition to ATT?
3) Will Verizon cave to Apple demands of control of the phone.
solipsism has a good point. HSPA+ is probably your 4th concern.
4) Can ATT rollout an effective non-constrained HSPA+ network that is competitive to Verizon's LTE speeds.
that last point is telling... when HSPA+ is working in Minneapolis... I'm seeing the download speeds closing in my WiFi 11n network connected to 20Mb/896K DSL (I get about 8M/.8M on wifi 4Mb/2Mb on HSPA+)... If I can get 4-7 Mb/2-3Mb on HSPA+, then I'm happy to hang on to my iP4.
Good points. So far, 3G speeds have been pretty Good. I was downloading an album on my 3GS (download app from the app store) and my friend, with his Evo, was downloading one song from the amazon mp3 market. By the time I finished downloading the album (9 songs) he was around 80% with his download. Oh and he was using 3G speeds not 4G. So I'm pretty satisfied with my 3G from AT&T.
Great: just in time to pick up a 5th gen iPhone, which will also have NFC in it. 6th gen iPhone will also be a must-purchase though, because it will contain some even better than NFC
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
If those LTE phones are viewed as an overall better experience, then you have a point, but if in practice, LTE is more like a energy eating 3G phone, constantly searching for LTE service (like the old days with your iPhone 3... when it was better to turn off 3G in settings and live with 2G coverage than to constantly be renegotiating on the fringes of the service area).
I think Apple will basically say... as soon as [50%? 75%] of ATT's current [at that time] 3G area is getting better LTE service [speed and stability] than 3G service, then it's time to deliver LTE. Until then, Apple will likely focus on other measures of value, such as battery life, features and functions (and sexy form factors;-) The longer you wait, the more Moore's law delivers cheaper, smaller, faster, and hopefully more reliable LTE chipsets, letting the other phone manufacturers field test the iterations.
I disagree. I think the obvious choice next year is for the "iPhone 4" to become the "iPhone 4G." There are already 4G Android phones for starters.
There are? Plural?
The only 4G Android phone I've heard of in the US market is the Sprint 4G, and technically that's not 4G, but WiMax (although it can be argued that 4G and WiMax are equivalent, although incompatible). The only LTE 4G network in Europe is a test setup in Stockholm. Obviously more will be coming as LTE rolls out.
Verizon, at least, is claiming "mid 2011" for their LTE handset introduction, and that's an ambitious schedule that moves up their original timeline. I think it's going to be a while yet before there's really much of a perception that "4G" is a necessary thing for a phone to have.
I believe iPhone 5 is unlikely to support LTE --- why? Because Apple does not like to stay at the cutting edge with radio tech. I mean the first iphone was 2.5G and not 3G even though it was available ...Apple chose 2.5G because AT&T's 3G was available in only select areas... same case would be here. AT&T is just launching in mid-2011, they will obvioulsly launch only in select markets - and roll over the rest of the nation in 1-2 years from then. I believe iPhone 6 will definitely be LTE.
Also when LTE is launched there will be initial hiccups -- it will take time to mature. The tech is pretty new and untested in production.
Thirdly, if they do launch a verizon iphone in jan, Verizon would have just launched LTE in 30 markets in december -- so the same reasons apply and iPhone for Verizon should also just be CDMA2000, and not LTE.
There is one caveat to all this though -- with android as a thread, I feel Apple has upped the gear a bit. For example, iphone 4 was a substantial leap over iphone 3Gs, and had a lot of features to become one of the best smartphone in the market even in terms of features. So Apple seems to be upping the ante a bit here. So Apple could definitely make the gamble of launching LTE with iphone 5 or with verizon iphone -- just for the competitive edge -- but even with all this, it seems unlikely to me that Apple will go for LTE.
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
Again, my only caveat is that if it requires a separate LTE only phone that won't work on other networks as well, then they might not do it.
LTE won't matter to most people until sometime in the latter half of 2012. That's true for Verizon as well as AT&T. But by 2013, it won't matter much, as they will both be pretty set with it.
Good points of course. My 3G coverage with my 3Gs is actually faster than my WIFI connection both at work and at home...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323
Good points. So far, 3G speeds have been pretty Good. I was downloading an album on my 3GS...
Just wait until you get a phone with HSUPA, like the iPhone 4 has. You?ll get uploads with a theoretical upper limit of 5.76 Mbps. I easily average 1-2Mbps uploads. I rarely get that from the WiFi-based internet I connect to.
In case you aren?t aware, ?3G? HSUPA has an upper limit of 84.4Mbps for uploads. I?m not worried about data speeds from being on this old hat ?3G? marketing term.
Verizon, at least, is claiming "mid 2011" for their LTE handset introduction, and that's an ambitious schedule that moves up their original timeline. I think it's going to be a while yet before there's really much of a perception that "4G" is a necessary thing for a phone to have.
Japan and other countries that are smaller geographically, denser and more inclined to need LTE stated at least a year ago that handsets wouldn?t come until at least the beginning of 2011. Yet, despite me pointing this out back then there were posters showing me how Verizon had claimed to have LTE in x-many cities covering x-many people by x-date.
Now it?s September 2010 and I haven?t even heard of Verizon LTE data connect cards on the market, which are products that actually exist for the few carriers that are using LTE, so I have to think that mid-2011 is not only optimistic but would be for a milestone LTE handset that will have the same ?4G? downfalls as the EVO 4G, and another solid year before LTE even starts to become a viable option, thus putting 2012 as the year of LTE. That is my optimistic prediction.
If they've cracked going 'vertical' on the rollout on July 1, 2012, as it appears from the graph on the dividing line, they should just go for 7 billion and cover everything. Then again, based on the 300M 3G subscribers they cover so well today... uh... never mind.
Just another promise by AT&T. Ther're always promising better service but have never delivered on their promises. Doubtful we'll see any improvement with ATT's 4G. I doubt we'll even see it by mid 2011 !!
No doubt about it. I remember reading ATT and Verizon saying they intend to take their time rolling out 4G, so LTE will be here for iPhone 6 as well most likely.
Comments
Where in the country are current "HPSA+ upgrades" being utilized, and can anyone tell the difference with current iphone download and upload speeds? Also, wasn't this the "problem" that ATT admitted they had with software at some sites, shortly after the iP4 was introduced in June?
Minneapolis is 'fixed' as of Mid August (the problem was Alcatel/Lucent SW bugs wasn't stable once you actually pushed upload speeds above HSPA speeds, hence they had to downgrade/cap upload speeds).
Unfortunately, they are still woefully under towered and backhauled in the downtown areas, including a 1bar-deadzone in the building where I work ;-(
WHEN is AT&T deploying LTE Advanced? THAT is the only TRUE 4G LTE. The rest is just marketing hype.
That will be years from now.
But Apple has proven historically resistant to adding features just to placate the spec triumphalists, and certainly doesn't seem much concerned with matching Android tit for tat.
In fact, they're well know for holding the line on new features even when their own customers seem ready to riot. I think it all comes down to numbers. If LTE deployment covers enough people to make it a widely useful, then sure. If not, I don't see any way Apple would go there just for bragging rights.
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
Again, my only caveat is that if it requires a separate LTE only phone that won't work on other networks as well, then they might not do it.
Sprint Customers use WiMAX which is not LTE compatible, so it's sort of apples (no pun) to oranges. As for price, they appear to be between 40, 45, and 50 for (currently) unlimited WiMax only, and $60 for 3G/WiMax unlimited.
And I think you worry about the wrong things. The three questions are
1) when does the Apple ATT exclusivity agreement end
2) Will Verizon have a compelling LTE rollout by Xmas to have Apple consider them in addition to ATT?
3) Will Verizon cave to Apple demands of control of the phone.
solipsism has a good point. HSPA+ is probably your 4th concern.
4) Can ATT rollout an effective non-constrained HSPA+ network that is competitive to Verizon's LTE speeds.
that last point is telling... when HSPA+ is working in Minneapolis... I'm seeing the download speeds closing in my WiFi 11n network connected to 20Mb/896K DSL (I get about 8M/.8M on wifi 4Mb/2Mb on HSPA+)... If I can get 4-7 Mb/2-3Mb on HSPA+, then I'm happy to hang on to my iP4.
Good points. So far, 3G speeds have been pretty Good. I was downloading an album on my 3GS (download app from the app store) and my friend, with his Evo, was downloading one song from the amazon mp3 market. By the time I finished downloading the album (9 songs) he was around 80% with his download. Oh and he was using 3G speeds not 4G. So I'm pretty satisfied with my 3G from AT&T.
2009 Q3 Net Income 3.2b
2009 Q4 Net Income 3.0b
2010 Q1 Net Income 2.5b
2010 Q2 Net Income 4.0b
12.5b in profits over a 12 month term and they are spending how much on this new technology this year? 700m?!?!
Not sure how they can swing it....
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
If those LTE phones are viewed as an overall better experience, then you have a point, but if in practice, LTE is more like a energy eating 3G phone, constantly searching for LTE service (like the old days with your iPhone 3... when it was better to turn off 3G in settings and live with 2G coverage than to constantly be renegotiating on the fringes of the service area).
I think Apple will basically say... as soon as [50%? 75%] of ATT's current [at that time] 3G area is getting better LTE service [speed and stability] than 3G service, then it's time to deliver LTE. Until then, Apple will likely focus on other measures of value, such as battery life, features and functions (and sexy form factors;-) The longer you wait, the more Moore's law delivers cheaper, smaller, faster, and hopefully more reliable LTE chipsets, letting the other phone manufacturers field test the iterations.
I disagree. I think the obvious choice next year is for the "iPhone 4" to become the "iPhone 4G." There are already 4G Android phones for starters.
There are? Plural?
The only 4G Android phone I've heard of in the US market is the Sprint 4G, and technically that's not 4G, but WiMax (although it can be argued that 4G and WiMax are equivalent, although incompatible). The only LTE 4G network in Europe is a test setup in Stockholm. Obviously more will be coming as LTE rolls out.
So what are these multiple Android 4G phones?
Also when LTE is launched there will be initial hiccups -- it will take time to mature. The tech is pretty new and untested in production.
Thirdly, if they do launch a verizon iphone in jan, Verizon would have just launched LTE in 30 markets in december -- so the same reasons apply and iPhone for Verizon should also just be CDMA2000, and not LTE.
There is one caveat to all this though -- with android as a thread, I feel Apple has upped the gear a bit. For example, iphone 4 was a substantial leap over iphone 3Gs, and had a lot of features to become one of the best smartphone in the market even in terms of features. So Apple seems to be upping the ante a bit here. So Apple could definitely make the gamble of launching LTE with iphone 5 or with verizon iphone -- just for the competitive edge -- but even with all this, it seems unlikely to me that Apple will go for LTE.
Yes. I think we are basically in agreement, we only disagree on how far LTE has spread already or is going to spread in the near future.
I think it's already in enough markets that it's worthwhile adding into the iPhone and essentially a mistake if it isn't. Overall, if the competitors are selling LTE phones, then to me that's indication that there are enough markets even within the continental USA to make it worthwhile.
Again, my only caveat is that if it requires a separate LTE only phone that won't work on other networks as well, then they might not do it.
LTE won't matter to most people until sometime in the latter half of 2012. That's true for Verizon as well as AT&T. But by 2013, it won't matter much, as they will both be pretty set with it.
Good points of course. My 3G coverage with my 3Gs is actually faster than my WIFI connection both at work and at home...
Good points. So far, 3G speeds have been pretty Good. I was downloading an album on my 3GS...
Just wait until you get a phone with HSUPA, like the iPhone 4 has. You?ll get uploads with a theoretical upper limit of 5.76 Mbps. I easily average 1-2Mbps uploads. I rarely get that from the WiFi-based internet I connect to.
In case you aren?t aware, ?3G? HSUPA has an upper limit of 84.4Mbps for uploads. I?m not worried about data speeds from being on this old hat ?3G? marketing term.
Verizon, at least, is claiming "mid 2011" for their LTE handset introduction, and that's an ambitious schedule that moves up their original timeline. I think it's going to be a while yet before there's really much of a perception that "4G" is a necessary thing for a phone to have.
Japan and other countries that are smaller geographically, denser and more inclined to need LTE stated at least a year ago that handsets wouldn?t come until at least the beginning of 2011. Yet, despite me pointing this out back then there were posters showing me how Verizon had claimed to have LTE in x-many cities covering x-many people by x-date.
Now it?s September 2010 and I haven?t even heard of Verizon LTE data connect cards on the market, which are products that actually exist for the few carriers that are using LTE, so I have to think that mid-2011 is not only optimistic but would be for a milestone LTE handset that will have the same ?4G? downfalls as the EVO 4G, and another solid year before LTE even starts to become a viable option, thus putting 2012 as the year of LTE. That is my optimistic prediction.
In how many locations? Without this information, the news could mean anything, and likely means almost nothing.
Why don't you try reading the article. It clearly says how many....Sheesh...noob
Hopefully AT&T proves me wrong.
I understand Dallas, but why Baltimore? Better bring it to chicago next, we are nice and flat, a perfect test ground. And we have an NFL team as well.
Baltimore has WiMax so from a competitive standpoint it make some sense.
Baltimore has WiMax so from a competitive standpoint it make some sense.
We've got clear wire WiMax and Sprint 4G as well. Had it for a while now.
So iPhone 5 will have LTE?
No doubt about it. I remember reading ATT and Verizon saying they intend to take their time rolling out 4G, so LTE will be here for iPhone 6 as well most likely.