This logic just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Two wireless devices talking to each other on the 5GHz N Network should not be creating that much "competition for bandwidth" with each other at the same time, but hey it seems to be working for you and I'll try anything given the problems I'm having.
Like I said, I did a hell of a lot of experimenting with file transfer rates prior to settling on this arrangement. Ultimately, I realized that if two devices, call them A and B, were using the same band to send files to one another, then there is going to be competition. You see, the bytes don't go directly from A to B. They go from A to the AE over WiFi, get routed internally from one virtual "endpoint" to another inside the AE, and then get sent from the AE to B over the same WiFi band. Hence, you have devices A and B both communicating with the AE at the same time on the same band. A is sending new bytes while B is receiving the previous ones. Hence the competition.
Now, suppose A sends bytes to the AE on one band, then the bytes get routed internally from one endpoint to another in the AE, and then they get sent from the AE to B on a completely different band. Things go much more smoothly. Try it.
Yeah, even for "local storage" it's much better to have a central repository and stream to TVs around the house.
yes, definitely. so i will have my old no longer used PPC Mac Mini with a 2T external drive plugged in to it on my LAN (via ethernet - its (g) wifi is too slow) holding my iTunes master Library with Home Sharing on. will use Screen Sharing from my regular desktop to control it when needed (not often), so no monitor needed. yes, have to leave it on with iTunes running, but it's single purpose doing nothing else so not a practical issue (except for electric bill). will use my old no longer used 2G iPhone as its remote control with Remote app. once i plug a new ATV via ethernet into the LAN it all should work great! just point it to that LIbrary.
My "Main" computer, an iMac i5 is hard wired, via gigabit ethernet, to a newer Time Capsule that also has a 5GHz and a 2.4GHz wireless networks set up. I use the 2.4 in mixed mode for two PS3s (almost never running), a Wie, (almost never running) and our iPhones (2 iPhone 4s and 1 iPhone 3GS). I use the 5GHz strickly in N mode for a MacBook Pro, a new Mac Mini, and and old ATV. I have given up on watching things like Apple Movie trailers in HD on the ATV because they stream so slow that they start and stop several times during just a 2-3 minute trailer to "buffer" more data. Oh yeah, and the internet connection comming into the house is a 25MBPS FiOS, which is blazing fast on the main computer. A couple of other surrounding wireless networks in the area occasionally show up so I have tried things like using different channels for the network, etc.
I am interested in the new ATV but I would miss being able to sync since streaming has not worked well for me even with the latest gear.
I would definitely suggest moving your AppleTV over to the 2.4 mixed mode band. With the modest devices you have over there, it seems like it would get scarce competition, and the harm done by utilizing the supposedly "less efficient" mixed-mode would be more than made up for by the reduced competition of the two furiously active devices on the 5 GHz band. (I am assuming that you won't simultaneously be trying to do bandwidth hungry activities on the other two computers you described. That would harm you regardless of what band they are on. But if you ever move big files from that iMac to either of these, then they should be put on the other band too.)
I still don't get why they did;nt use the iOS and make a killing on more apps sold and distributed. Get everyone hooked just like the iphone....Then just have an iTV app on the front.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I expect there will be apps for it once Apple is satisfied they have the right strategy for user input. Recall that Apple can be very fixed on the idea of don't do anything until they are certain it is right: copy and paste, 3rd party app multitasking, an app store for the iPhone.
Apple is probably in the process of bypassing the cable TV industry and the DVD-bluray system so their steps need to be taken quite carefully.
I would definitely suggest moving your AppleTV over to the 2.4 mixed mode band. With the modest devices you have over there, it seems like it would get scarce competition, and the harm done by utilizing the supposedly "less efficient" mixed-mode would be more than made up for by the reduced competition of the two furiously active devices on the 5 GHz band. (I am assuming that you won't simultaneously be trying to do bandwidth hungry activities on the other two computers you described. That would harm you regardless of what band they are on. But if you ever move big files from that iMac to either of these, then they should be put on the other band too.)
Thompson
Actually the MacBook Pro and Mac Mini are rarely connected to my wireless networks as well. I use the laptop on the road, and the mini actually replace one of my old ATVs ( I had two; one at family room TV and one at my basement TV, but the family room ATV died). I rarely use the mini because I so much liked the ATV interfsct much more (I even tried Boxee and Plex on it, but not very happy). I was thinking of getting two new ATVs and plugging one directly into the Mini at the family room and leaving it on so it could stream directly to the ATV via ethernet cable... thus leaving my basement as the only dilemma.
Indeed, it should easily hold an HD (720p) movie, no?
It would, although streaming wouldn't require that.
The probably have a deal on the 8 GB chips and it gives space for their future app store, as well as much more than enough of a buffer for streaming video.
Like I said, I did a hell of a lot of experimenting with file transfer rates prior to settling on this arrangement. Ultimately, I realized that if two devices, call them A and B, were using the same band to send files to one another, then there is going to be competition. You see, the bytes don't go directly from A to B. They go from A to the AE over WiFi, get routed internally from one virtual "endpoint" to another inside the AE, and then get sent from the AE to B over the same WiFi band. Hence, you have devices A and B both communicating with the AE at the same time on the same band. A is sending new bytes while B is receiving the previous ones. Hence the competition.
Now, suppose A sends bytes to the AE on one band, then the bytes get routed internally from one endpoint to another in the AE, and then they get sent from the AE to B on a completely different band. Things go much more smoothly. Try it.
Thompson
That does make sense, but in my case I think its moot since the main device being communicated to is hard wired to the router.
Actually the MacBook Pro and Mac Mini are rarely connected to my wireless networks as well. I use the laptop on the road, and the mini actually replace one of my old ATVs ( I had two; one at family room TV and one at my basement TV, but the family room ATV died). I rarely use the mini because I so much liked the ATV interfsct much more (I even tried Boxee and Plex on it, but not very happy).
That's exactly how I use my MacMini! It's attached to my big screen TV. I don't have an ATV yet (fixing to remedy that with this new one) so I have the MacMini using the mixed mode band to stream stuff from the main computer. When I get the new ATV, I'll use it on the same band as the MacMini (but preferably not simultaneously). The main computer will remain isolated on the 5 GHz channel, with nothing to get in its way.
That does make sense, but in my case I think its moot since the main device being communicated to is hard wired to the router.
OOOOOOOOOOOH. I missed that fact earlier. Never mind then. :-)
Given your description now, i.e. that you had an AppleTV talking to the AE (with very little contention) which was connected to (very!) high speed internet, I'm having trouble understanding why streaming the theatrical trailers was giving you so much trouble. This does remind me of an interesting topic. When I initially bought my dual-band AE and set it up, I performed all of these configuration tests and was getting no joy. Ultimately, after days of banging my head against the wall, I took the AE back to the Apple Store and got a replacement (even though they failed to identify a specific problem). Things were better instantly. But I still examined the configurations in order to maximize my use case. :-)
Perhaps either your AE or your ATV are defective somehow?
Got no problem leaving my iMac on, but do I also have to have iTunes open and running with Home share on the whole times as well to acommodate streaming to the new ATV?
Yes, Itunes need to be on since its AppleTV official source.
Because streaming is not perfect. Files stored on the ATV do not require the network to perform at any certain level. If everything was wired, then streaming wouldn't be a bad thing. Wireless is just too finicky, even with 802.11n.
I only have to hit the "Sync" button in iTunes all that's it. I don't see how this is difficult at all.
This is why my AppleTv is Wired. Instead of putting the router near a PC I put it with the TV since the broadband is coming from cable and the coxial cable is already there. So my AppleTV is just by the router so its wired.
but imo the AppleTV should just buff the stream so network hiccup wont translate into video lag. I think the old AppleTV only buff itunes rentals but it doesnt buff itunes streaming from a PC. Now lets hope they fix that with the new model.
It seems like I could get a number of AppleTV's to place at every TV in the house. I can just store my DVD's in the garage and not have to futz with them anymore. I'm looking forward to an all-digital future.
CD's, DVD's, Blu-ray's etc are all digital, or did you mean something else?
If you buy movies with the previous Apple TV, they get transfered back to your host computer, right? Why don't you just go to that computer and buy them through iTunes directly? Then you can stream them to the new AppleTV.
The only problem I see with this is you have to get off the couch to make an impulse buy. The solution is simple: either don't make impulse buys of movies, or get off the couch. :-)
Thompson
The previous Apple TV did sync purchases back to the iTunes library that it syncs with. The problem is that when you purchase movies via iTunes, you have to wait for them to complete downloading before you can stream them anywhere. That sucks.
Last Friday we came from home work, picked up the kids, and decided we wanted to have a movie night. With our current Apple TV, we bought and we watched. With the new Apple TV if we want to buy (as is often the case for kids movies that get viewed again and again), we need to screen share into our Mac Mini library, buy the movie in iTunes, wait for it to download, and sync across the media list before Apple TV can play it. That's far from ideal, and my wife and kids won't even attempt it. It's just way too messy. Very uncharacteristic of Apple.
Comments
8GB of storage FTW. That will hold a few apps.
Indeed, it should easily hold an HD (720p) movie, no?
This logic just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Two wireless devices talking to each other on the 5GHz N Network should not be creating that much "competition for bandwidth" with each other at the same time, but hey it seems to be working for you and I'll try anything given the problems I'm having.
Like I said, I did a hell of a lot of experimenting with file transfer rates prior to settling on this arrangement. Ultimately, I realized that if two devices, call them A and B, were using the same band to send files to one another, then there is going to be competition. You see, the bytes don't go directly from A to B. They go from A to the AE over WiFi, get routed internally from one virtual "endpoint" to another inside the AE, and then get sent from the AE to B over the same WiFi band. Hence, you have devices A and B both communicating with the AE at the same time on the same band. A is sending new bytes while B is receiving the previous ones. Hence the competition.
Now, suppose A sends bytes to the AE on one band, then the bytes get routed internally from one endpoint to another in the AE, and then they get sent from the AE to B on a completely different band. Things go much more smoothly. Try it.
Thompson
(I just signed up for Netflix this morning.)
Yeah, Apple stickers!!
Yeah, even for "local storage" it's much better to have a central repository and stream to TVs around the house.
yes, definitely. so i will have my old no longer used PPC Mac Mini with a 2T external drive plugged in to it on my LAN (via ethernet - its (g) wifi is too slow) holding my iTunes master Library with Home Sharing on. will use Screen Sharing from my regular desktop to control it when needed (not often), so no monitor needed. yes, have to leave it on with iTunes running, but it's single purpose doing nothing else so not a practical issue (except for electric bill). will use my old no longer used 2G iPhone as its remote control with Remote app. once i plug a new ATV via ethernet into the LAN it all should work great! just point it to that LIbrary.
Recycle!
My "Main" computer, an iMac i5 is hard wired, via gigabit ethernet, to a newer Time Capsule that also has a 5GHz and a 2.4GHz wireless networks set up. I use the 2.4 in mixed mode for two PS3s (almost never running), a Wie, (almost never running) and our iPhones (2 iPhone 4s and 1 iPhone 3GS). I use the 5GHz strickly in N mode for a MacBook Pro, a new Mac Mini, and and old ATV. I have given up on watching things like Apple Movie trailers in HD on the ATV because they stream so slow that they start and stop several times during just a 2-3 minute trailer to "buffer" more data. Oh yeah, and the internet connection comming into the house is a 25MBPS FiOS, which is blazing fast on the main computer. A couple of other surrounding wireless networks in the area occasionally show up so I have tried things like using different channels for the network, etc.
I am interested in the new ATV but I would miss being able to sync since streaming has not worked well for me even with the latest gear.
I would definitely suggest moving your AppleTV over to the 2.4 mixed mode band. With the modest devices you have over there, it seems like it would get scarce competition, and the harm done by utilizing the supposedly "less efficient" mixed-mode would be more than made up for by the reduced competition of the two furiously active devices on the 5 GHz band. (I am assuming that you won't simultaneously be trying to do bandwidth hungry activities on the other two computers you described. That would harm you regardless of what band they are on. But if you ever move big files from that iMac to either of these, then they should be put on the other band too.)
Thompson
I still don't get why they did;nt use the iOS and make a killing on more apps sold and distributed. Get everyone hooked just like the iphone....Then just have an iTV app on the front.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I expect there will be apps for it once Apple is satisfied they have the right strategy for user input. Recall that Apple can be very fixed on the idea of don't do anything until they are certain it is right: copy and paste, 3rd party app multitasking, an app store for the iPhone.
Apple is probably in the process of bypassing the cable TV industry and the DVD-bluray system so their steps need to be taken quite carefully.
I would definitely suggest moving your AppleTV over to the 2.4 mixed mode band. With the modest devices you have over there, it seems like it would get scarce competition, and the harm done by utilizing the supposedly "less efficient" mixed-mode would be more than made up for by the reduced competition of the two furiously active devices on the 5 GHz band. (I am assuming that you won't simultaneously be trying to do bandwidth hungry activities on the other two computers you described. That would harm you regardless of what band they are on. But if you ever move big files from that iMac to either of these, then they should be put on the other band too.)
Thompson
Actually the MacBook Pro and Mac Mini are rarely connected to my wireless networks as well. I use the laptop on the road, and the mini actually replace one of my old ATVs ( I had two; one at family room TV and one at my basement TV, but the family room ATV died). I rarely use the mini because I so much liked the ATV interfsct much more (I even tried Boxee and Plex on it, but not very happy). I was thinking of getting two new ATVs and plugging one directly into the Mini at the family room and leaving it on so it could stream directly to the ATV via ethernet cable... thus leaving my basement as the only dilemma.
Indeed, it should easily hold an HD (720p) movie, no?
It would, although streaming wouldn't require that.
The probably have a deal on the 8 GB chips and it gives space for their future app store, as well as much more than enough of a buffer for streaming video.
Like I said, I did a hell of a lot of experimenting with file transfer rates prior to settling on this arrangement. Ultimately, I realized that if two devices, call them A and B, were using the same band to send files to one another, then there is going to be competition. You see, the bytes don't go directly from A to B. They go from A to the AE over WiFi, get routed internally from one virtual "endpoint" to another inside the AE, and then get sent from the AE to B over the same WiFi band. Hence, you have devices A and B both communicating with the AE at the same time on the same band. A is sending new bytes while B is receiving the previous ones. Hence the competition.
Now, suppose A sends bytes to the AE on one band, then the bytes get routed internally from one endpoint to another in the AE, and then they get sent from the AE to B on a completely different band. Things go much more smoothly. Try it.
Thompson
That does make sense, but in my case I think its moot since the main device being communicated to is hard wired to the router.
Actually the MacBook Pro and Mac Mini are rarely connected to my wireless networks as well. I use the laptop on the road, and the mini actually replace one of my old ATVs ( I had two; one at family room TV and one at my basement TV, but the family room ATV died). I rarely use the mini because I so much liked the ATV interfsct much more (I even tried Boxee and Plex on it, but not very happy).
That's exactly how I use my MacMini! It's attached to my big screen TV. I don't have an ATV yet (fixing to remedy that with this new one) so I have the MacMini using the mixed mode band to stream stuff from the main computer. When I get the new ATV, I'll use it on the same band as the MacMini (but preferably not simultaneously). The main computer will remain isolated on the 5 GHz channel, with nothing to get in its way.
Thompson
That does make sense, but in my case I think its moot since the main device being communicated to is hard wired to the router.
OOOOOOOOOOOH. I missed that fact earlier. Never mind then. :-)
Given your description now, i.e. that you had an AppleTV talking to the AE (with very little contention) which was connected to (very!) high speed internet, I'm having trouble understanding why streaming the theatrical trailers was giving you so much trouble. This does remind me of an interesting topic. When I initially bought my dual-band AE and set it up, I performed all of these configuration tests and was getting no joy. Ultimately, after days of banging my head against the wall, I took the AE back to the Apple Store and got a replacement (even though they failed to identify a specific problem). Things were better instantly. But I still examined the configurations in order to maximize my use case. :-)
Perhaps either your AE or your ATV are defective somehow?
Thompson
Got no problem leaving my iMac on, but do I also have to have iTunes open and running with Home share on the whole times as well to acommodate streaming to the new ATV?
Yes, Itunes need to be on since its AppleTV official source.
Because streaming is not perfect. Files stored on the ATV do not require the network to perform at any certain level. If everything was wired, then streaming wouldn't be a bad thing. Wireless is just too finicky, even with 802.11n.
I only have to hit the "Sync" button in iTunes all that's it. I don't see how this is difficult at all.
This is why my AppleTv is Wired. Instead of putting the router near a PC I put it with the TV since the broadband is coming from cable and the coxial cable is already there. So my AppleTV is just by the router so its wired.
but imo the AppleTV should just buff the stream so network hiccup wont translate into video lag. I think the old AppleTV only buff itunes rentals but it doesnt buff itunes streaming from a PC. Now lets hope they fix that with the new model.
Only photos from MobileMe or Flickr?? That sucks!
Or your computer. Where do you want to display photos from?
It seems like I could get a number of AppleTV's to place at every TV in the house. I can just store my DVD's in the garage and not have to futz with them anymore. I'm looking forward to an all-digital future.
CD's, DVD's, Blu-ray's etc are all digital, or did you mean something else?
Or your computer. Where do you want to display photos from?
Only the old Apple TV does it from your computer. Not this new one.
Only the old Apple TV does it from your computer. Not this new one.
Go to http://www.apple.com/appletv/. Scroll down to "All Streaming. No Hassle." Read.
If you buy movies with the previous Apple TV, they get transfered back to your host computer, right? Why don't you just go to that computer and buy them through iTunes directly? Then you can stream them to the new AppleTV.
The only problem I see with this is you have to get off the couch to make an impulse buy. The solution is simple: either don't make impulse buys of movies, or get off the couch. :-)
Thompson
The previous Apple TV did sync purchases back to the iTunes library that it syncs with. The problem is that when you purchase movies via iTunes, you have to wait for them to complete downloading before you can stream them anywhere. That sucks.
Last Friday we came from home work, picked up the kids, and decided we wanted to have a movie night. With our current Apple TV, we bought and we watched. With the new Apple TV if we want to buy (as is often the case for kids movies that get viewed again and again), we need to screen share into our Mac Mini library, buy the movie in iTunes, wait for it to download, and sync across the media list before Apple TV can play it. That's far from ideal, and my wife and kids won't even attempt it. It's just way too messy. Very uncharacteristic of Apple.