The Palm Pre and its WebOS were interesting by the standards of their time, although Palm never found much traction. The hardware was wasn't up to the quality or design standards set by the iPhone, and I think a lot of people just never "got" the whole WebOS thing. And then there was the ad campaign with the pale, etherial girl (Canadian actress Tamara Hope) that too many people apparently found kind of creepy. Me, I liked it.
But here we have a speed bump with feature upgrades in what looks like the same form factor, plus the updated WebOS. Taken altogether it seems to fall short of a Pre 2, more like a Pre 1.5.
But today it's all about the third party apps and having the critical mass to support their development. Too little, too late?
Apple should take note and do something with the useless Lock screen on the iPhone. Ironic, given their adherence to UI efficiency and rejection of superfluous UI elements.
It would've cost $1.2B just lock him up in a dark cellar..
Apple could have bought Palm for much less earlier on. They even made a halfhearted bid when Hp did. I thought Apple should have bought them for their patents at least. And there are a few things about WebOS that Apple could have modified for iOS I'm sure. It certainly would have been little enough for Apple to have spent.
In fact, some of these small compaies sueing Apple over patents could be bought for less than a billion. If the claims look valid, as some of them are, Apple should just buy them out. That would be a good use of their $51 billion.
It's unlikely that the Pre 2 had much influence from HP, it was probably mostly designed already by the time HP bought Palm.
Indeed it looks mostly like a specification bump from the original Pre.
I would hope that HP have plans for a more modern device with a higher resolution display and so on. It sounds like Palm WebOS would benefit from dual cores as well, so maybe 2011 will bring dual A9s for Palm devices.
However Palm WebOS is still looking very slick.
Too little, too late. I doubt that there's anything that Hp could do at this point to make WebOS a significant player in phones. It's doubtful that they can do much with it as a tablet either. Once Android 3 comes out end of year, we'll begin to see Android tablets that are better optimized for tablets. They'll still have a long way to catch up with iPad apps, including iPhone apps optimized for 960 x640, which I'm hoping will finally appear at that rez on my iPad once we get 4.2, because now they are still 480x340. If they do appear at the higher rez, that will mean that there will be over 200,000 apps either fully using the iPad screen, or almost fully using it. With Android apps only up to 854x480, they won't look too great on a 10" screen.
But WebOS is still at 480x340. That's woefully behind at this late stage. Considering just how few apps are out there, and from reports, how bad most are, Hp's got a lot of catching up to do. Can they convince developers to move over? That will be tough with just a few hundred thousand WebOS devices out there, and with uncertain sales ahead.
The Palm Pre and its WebOS were interesting by the standards of their time, although Palm never found much traction. The hardware was wasn't up to the quality or design standards set by the iPhone, and I think a lot of people just never "got" the whole WebOS thing. And then there was the ad campaign with the pale, etherial girl (Canadian actress Tamara Hope) that too many people apparently found kind of creepy. Me, I liked it.
But here we have a speed bump with feature upgrades in what looks like the same form factor, plus the updated WebOS. Taken altogether it seems to fall short of a Pre 2, more like a Pre 1.5.
But today it's all about the third party apps and having the critical mass to support their development. Too little, too late?
The fact that they released this at all, rather than canceling it and cutting their losses, might indicate they are going to continue development of WebOS phones (not just use WebOS for tablets).
Palm's hardware has always been one of their weak points. I know. I used to have a
Handspring Visor, Treo 180, Treo 600, and Treo 680.
Two words: creaky plastic.
This is what you do when you're totally clueless about "infrastructure" and "user experience."
You just keep adding features, to try and out-feature the competition. To make a bigger
check-list of features than the other guy. It's why Office is such a monstrosity. Feature creep.
It's far too late to do anything about it, but Palm probably already realizes that one of the
main reasons for iPod / iPhone / iPad success is Apple's incredible software infrastructure.
iTunes, which was released before iPod, has evolved enormously. It drove iPod sales.
App Store has been a huge success, and it drives iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, and soon
Apple TV sales.
And we'll see what Steve does with that $1 billion server facility in North Carolina.
Video streaming? Cloud storage? Probably both.
Apple has relentlessly developed its infrastructure since 2001, when iTunes was released.
That's how far behind Apple's would-be competitors are.
I can't speak to earlier models, but my Treo 700p was rock solid. The only problem was the plastic screen which began getting scratched and so needed protectors, something Apple ended by using glass, which I see that they are now finally using as well.
As far as infrastructure goes, Palm never had any, because it wasn't needed back then. We'd buy programs from one of the sites that specialized in mobile. And that was about it. As in music sales, Apple changed everything. I used to think that my Palm programs (we didn't call them apps) were cheap at an average of $20. But now, most are impulse buys, cheaper than a comic book.
I don't see Hp wanting to spend on duplicating what Apple has. I don't see anyone being able to do it except MS, which already has the infrastructure, and Google which also does.
Although this update seems underwhelming, it's good to see the pre still here. To me the only mobile os that gave the iphone a run for it's money.
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
Personally, I think this is great news (and not just because I have a Palm Pre +). HPs Palm offering isn't much spec-wise when compared to the Google or Apple offerings. But I think its main target is the person who wants a simple to use, syncs with a lot of places, small form factor, cheaper smartphone. It doesn't ever need to be plugged into a computer as long as you don't want to sync any media, and it operates easily off of the cloud. Having an iPod Touch with iOS 4, and a Palm Pre, I can say hands down that I enjoy using the Pre much more than the iPod. Even if the hardware isn't "faster", the way the OS is designed makes up for the hardware's short comings. I can't wait till webOS 2 comes out for the older models!
The only two things I like more about the iPod, is the number of Apps in the store (though it would be easy to port many of them to the Palm) and the fluid transitions when you change screens. From what I hear, the fluid transitions will be part of the new webOS.
The new hardware is nothing amazing or spectacular, adding what was needed: A glass screen, and a Processor bump. Yes, the Palm Pre is very much bringing up the rear, but as long as there is ongoing development, like the nice new features of webOS 2 show, I don't mind siding with the underdog.
Did I miss it? I would have thought HP would have include a state-of-the-art print ability to all their printers! Something, at least to set them apart from the crowd! Oh well! Yawn!
Although this update seems underwhelming, it's good to see the pre still here. To me the only mobile os that gave the iphone a run for it's money.
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
I'd like WebOS to succeed to. Nice OS, and I used Palms after the demise of the Newton, until iPhone Apps were established. Yes, they were very "creaky plastic" Centro most of all. But WebOS IS too late.
Even the old mainstay of Palm OS developers like DataViz had failed to produce a Documents-to-Go for WebOS (even before RIM recently bought them up to ensure a version for their new OS).
MS' strategy may be silly in many respects, but they get the point about developers being crucial and are paying them heavily in an attempt to pushstart the WP7 app market. Availability of Apps is the reason Android and iOS are in the ascendency.
Agreed, good comments! "...too late..." in tech, you don't often get a second chance. All the more remarkable for Jobs and what he has been able to achieve!
I do agree with kev that the odds are not stacked up in favour of them at palm for succeeding, i.e. for becoming again one of the main players, but that doesn't mean they can't get a decent piece of the pie. I really do believe that if hp play their cards right they can leverage their considerable hardware know how to get an advantage over both android and ms who don't manufacture their own devices. So, yes they are late but they still have a good product, some semblance of a customer base, and they have a manufacturer behind them that has been a long time in the business and has considerable influence.
If hp can come up with a web os tablet fast, that is within the next couple of months or so, they are also going to benefit from a halo effect (a strange halo effect) of the hp tablet sales helping drive palm phone sales. And who else is better equipped hardware wise than hp to bring a tablet to the market? Rim? Google? (via any dime a dozen manufacturer with android tablets of atrocious quality) MS? (who still don't have a tried and tested mobile os to use and no hardware background) The only one who could potential do it would be from a hardware stand point would be samsung. But they lack the software, and going (as they have already with their latest tablet - like offering) with android won't fix their problems. So here hp when it come to a tablet is ideally positioned.
Unless of course the manage to mess up marketing and strategy wise...
Having said all that apple's aggressive pricing of the ipad (which stems from a dozen or so factors that I've gone into in other posts) has put everyone in the tightest spot they have ever been in, in terms of competing with apple. It's almost a year since launch (i.e. prices for some components have dropped) and no one on the globe has dared take on apple with a similar product. There still is no ipad "killer", not even a clone, not even a more expensive, less capable clone.
Although this update seems underwhelming, it's good to see the pre still here. To me the only mobile os that gave the iphone a run for it's money.
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
Not gonna happen. This would have to sell awfully well, much better than expectations. It's pretty obvious that Hp is selling this model because it was already in the works, and the older models were doing so poorly. I read somewhere yesterday, but I didn't bookmark it, that if this model doesn't sell well, we won't see a version three handset. I wouldn't be surprised.
I do agree with kev that the odds are not stacked up in favour of them at palm for succeeding, i.e. for becoming again one of the main players, but that doesn't mean they can't get a decent piece of the pie. I really do believe that if hp play their cards right they can leverage their considerable hardware know how to get an advantage over both android and ms who don't manufacture their own devices. So, yes they are late but they still have a good product, some semblance of a customer base, and they have a manufacturer behind them that has been a long time in the business and has considerable influence.
If hp can come up with a web os tablet fast, that is within the next couple of months or so, they are also going to benefit from a halo effect (a strange halo effect) of the hp tablet sales helping drive palm phone sales. And who else is better equipped hardware wise than hp to bring a tablet to the market? Rim? Google? (via any dime a dozen manufacturer with android tablets of atrocious quality) MS? (who still don't have a tried and tested mobile os to use and no hardware background) The only one who could potential do it would be from a hardware stand point would be samsung. But they lack the software, and going (as they have already with their latest tablet - like offering) with android won't fix their problems. So here hp when it come to a tablet is ideally positioned.
Unless of course the manage to mess up marketing and strategy wise...
Having said all that apple's aggressive pricing of the ipad (which stems from a dozen or so factors that I've gone into in other posts) has put everyone in the tightest spot they have ever been in, in terms of competing with apple. It's almost a year since launch (i.e. prices for some components have dropped) and no one on the globe has dared take on apple with a similar product. There still is no ipad "killer", not even a clone, not even a more expensive, less capable clone.
It's been 16 months since the last major WebOS update. Much of that is due to the turmoil Palm has had, their monetary situation, and the purchase by Hp. Too much time has been lost.
Now they come out with a phone update that should have been here a year ago. They aren't marking time, they've fallen further behind. I believe that a large number of Palm WebOS owners might switch to this, but that a substantial will number just leave. I can't see too many coming into the platform.
Without any evidence that Palm was already working on a real tablet version of webOS, Hp will be hard pressed to do this within the holiday season. I don't think they want to have something half baked, as that would destroy any credibility they may have with this. But, the longer it takes, the less chance it will have.
I feel pretty sure that the chance for anything other than iOS and Android will be closing quickly after "real" Android tablets come out. WebOS is such a minor player now, that its chance will be very small.
Comments
However Palm WebOS is still looking very slick.
The Palm Pre and its WebOS were interesting by the standards of their time, although Palm never found much traction. The hardware was wasn't up to the quality or design standards set by the iPhone, and I think a lot of people just never "got" the whole WebOS thing. And then there was the ad campaign with the pale, etherial girl (Canadian actress Tamara Hope) that too many people apparently found kind of creepy. Me, I liked it.
But here we have a speed bump with feature upgrades in what looks like the same form factor, plus the updated WebOS. Taken altogether it seems to fall short of a Pre 2, more like a Pre 1.5.
But today it's all about the third party apps and having the critical mass to support their development. Too little, too late?
Apple should take note and do something with the useless Lock screen on the iPhone. Ironic, given their adherence to UI efficiency and rejection of superfluous UI elements.
... The hardware also features a 5-megapixel camera, a glass screen ...
Palm's hardware has always been one of their weak points. I know. I used to have a
Handspring Visor, Treo 180, Treo 600, and Treo 680.
Two words: creaky plastic.
... now we?re taking our biggest leap forward with powerful new features ...
This is what you do when you're totally clueless about "infrastructure" and "user experience."
You just keep adding features, to try and out-feature the competition. To make a bigger
check-list of features than the other guy. It's why Office is such a monstrosity. Feature creep.
It's far too late to do anything about it, but Palm probably already realizes that one of the
main reasons for iPod / iPhone / iPad success is Apple's incredible software infrastructure.
iTunes, which was released before iPod, has evolved enormously. It drove iPod sales.
App Store has been a huge success, and it drives iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, and soon
Apple TV sales.
And we'll see what Steve does with that $1 billion server facility in North Carolina.
Video streaming? Cloud storage? Probably both.
Apple has relentlessly developed its infrastructure since 2001, when iTunes was released.
That's how far behind Apple's would-be competitors are.
It would've cost $1.2B just lock him up in a dark cellar..
Apple could have bought Palm for much less earlier on. They even made a halfhearted bid when Hp did. I thought Apple should have bought them for their patents at least. And there are a few things about WebOS that Apple could have modified for iOS I'm sure. It certainly would have been little enough for Apple to have spent.
In fact, some of these small compaies sueing Apple over patents could be bought for less than a billion. If the claims look valid, as some of them are, Apple should just buy them out. That would be a good use of their $51 billion.
It's unlikely that the Pre 2 had much influence from HP, it was probably mostly designed already by the time HP bought Palm.
Indeed it looks mostly like a specification bump from the original Pre.
I would hope that HP have plans for a more modern device with a higher resolution display and so on. It sounds like Palm WebOS would benefit from dual cores as well, so maybe 2011 will bring dual A9s for Palm devices.
However Palm WebOS is still looking very slick.
Too little, too late. I doubt that there's anything that Hp could do at this point to make WebOS a significant player in phones. It's doubtful that they can do much with it as a tablet either. Once Android 3 comes out end of year, we'll begin to see Android tablets that are better optimized for tablets. They'll still have a long way to catch up with iPad apps, including iPhone apps optimized for 960 x640, which I'm hoping will finally appear at that rez on my iPad once we get 4.2, because now they are still 480x340. If they do appear at the higher rez, that will mean that there will be over 200,000 apps either fully using the iPad screen, or almost fully using it. With Android apps only up to 854x480, they won't look too great on a 10" screen.
But WebOS is still at 480x340. That's woefully behind at this late stage. Considering just how few apps are out there, and from reports, how bad most are, Hp's got a lot of catching up to do. Can they convince developers to move over? That will be tough with just a few hundred thousand WebOS devices out there, and with uncertain sales ahead.
The Palm Pre and its WebOS were interesting by the standards of their time, although Palm never found much traction. The hardware was wasn't up to the quality or design standards set by the iPhone, and I think a lot of people just never "got" the whole WebOS thing. And then there was the ad campaign with the pale, etherial girl (Canadian actress Tamara Hope) that too many people apparently found kind of creepy. Me, I liked it.
But here we have a speed bump with feature upgrades in what looks like the same form factor, plus the updated WebOS. Taken altogether it seems to fall short of a Pre 2, more like a Pre 1.5.
But today it's all about the third party apps and having the critical mass to support their development. Too little, too late?
The fact that they released this at all, rather than canceling it and cutting their losses, might indicate they are going to continue development of WebOS phones (not just use WebOS for tablets).
Palm's hardware has always been one of their weak points. I know. I used to have a
Handspring Visor, Treo 180, Treo 600, and Treo 680.
Two words: creaky plastic.
This is what you do when you're totally clueless about "infrastructure" and "user experience."
You just keep adding features, to try and out-feature the competition. To make a bigger
check-list of features than the other guy. It's why Office is such a monstrosity. Feature creep.
It's far too late to do anything about it, but Palm probably already realizes that one of the
main reasons for iPod / iPhone / iPad success is Apple's incredible software infrastructure.
iTunes, which was released before iPod, has evolved enormously. It drove iPod sales.
App Store has been a huge success, and it drives iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, and soon
Apple TV sales.
And we'll see what Steve does with that $1 billion server facility in North Carolina.
Video streaming? Cloud storage? Probably both.
Apple has relentlessly developed its infrastructure since 2001, when iTunes was released.
That's how far behind Apple's would-be competitors are.
I can't speak to earlier models, but my Treo 700p was rock solid. The only problem was the plastic screen which began getting scratched and so needed protectors, something Apple ended by using glass, which I see that they are now finally using as well.
As far as infrastructure goes, Palm never had any, because it wasn't needed back then. We'd buy programs from one of the sites that specialized in mobile. And that was about it. As in music sales, Apple changed everything. I used to think that my Palm programs (we didn't call them apps) were cheap at an average of $20. But now, most are impulse buys, cheaper than a comic book.
I don't see Hp wanting to spend on duplicating what Apple has. I don't see anyone being able to do it except MS, which already has the infrastructure, and Google which also does.
What was that?...
That was the fine bloggers over at PreCentral.net crapping in their pants!...
At least now they have something newish to talk about...
So happy for them...
/
/
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
The only two things I like more about the iPod, is the number of Apps in the store (though it would be easy to port many of them to the Palm) and the fluid transitions when you change screens. From what I hear, the fluid transitions will be part of the new webOS.
The new hardware is nothing amazing or spectacular, adding what was needed: A glass screen, and a Processor bump. Yes, the Palm Pre is very much bringing up the rear, but as long as there is ongoing development, like the nice new features of webOS 2 show, I don't mind siding with the underdog.
Oops! Or would that mean "drivers?" Uggh!
Best
Although this update seems underwhelming, it's good to see the pre still here. To me the only mobile os that gave the iphone a run for it's money.
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
I'd like WebOS to succeed to. Nice OS, and I used Palms after the demise of the Newton, until iPhone Apps were established. Yes, they were very "creaky plastic" Centro most of all. But WebOS IS too late.
Even the old mainstay of Palm OS developers like DataViz had failed to produce a Documents-to-Go for WebOS (even before RIM recently bought them up to ensure a version for their new OS).
MS' strategy may be silly in many respects, but they get the point about developers being crucial and are paying them heavily in an attempt to pushstart the WP7 app market. Availability of Apps is the reason Android and iOS are in the ascendency.
...too late...
Agreed, good comments! "...too late..." in tech, you don't often get a second chance. All the more remarkable for Jobs and what he has been able to achieve!
Best
If hp can come up with a web os tablet fast, that is within the next couple of months or so, they are also going to benefit from a halo effect (a strange halo effect) of the hp tablet sales helping drive palm phone sales. And who else is better equipped hardware wise than hp to bring a tablet to the market? Rim? Google? (via any dime a dozen manufacturer with android tablets of atrocious quality) MS? (who still don't have a tried and tested mobile os to use and no hardware background) The only one who could potential do it would be from a hardware stand point would be samsung. But they lack the software, and going (as they have already with their latest tablet - like offering) with android won't fix their problems. So here hp when it come to a tablet is ideally positioned.
Unless of course the manage to mess up marketing and strategy wise...
Having said all that apple's aggressive pricing of the ipad (which stems from a dozen or so factors that I've gone into in other posts) has put everyone in the tightest spot they have ever been in, in terms of competing with apple. It's almost a year since launch (i.e. prices for some components have dropped) and no one on the globe has dared take on apple with a similar product. There still is no ipad "killer", not even a clone, not even a more expensive, less capable clone.
Although this update seems underwhelming, it's good to see the pre still here. To me the only mobile os that gave the iphone a run for it's money.
Hp has the hardware clout to promote web os (which to me is superior to android) in phones and tablets. I don't think it's too little too late for them, provided they act quickly of course. And I hope they succeed because I really do wan't to see more players in this arena, and because I despise google and android who look set to dominate a certain segment of the market.
And since MS still don't get it with their silly mobile strategy, there are not many players to beat android. Hp has the hardware know how and the clout to leverage good deals for it, and now they have a perfectly fine mobile os that they need to keep developing.
Not gonna happen. This would have to sell awfully well, much better than expectations. It's pretty obvious that Hp is selling this model because it was already in the works, and the older models were doing so poorly. I read somewhere yesterday, but I didn't bookmark it, that if this model doesn't sell well, we won't see a version three handset. I wouldn't be surprised.
I do agree with kev that the odds are not stacked up in favour of them at palm for succeeding, i.e. for becoming again one of the main players, but that doesn't mean they can't get a decent piece of the pie. I really do believe that if hp play their cards right they can leverage their considerable hardware know how to get an advantage over both android and ms who don't manufacture their own devices. So, yes they are late but they still have a good product, some semblance of a customer base, and they have a manufacturer behind them that has been a long time in the business and has considerable influence.
If hp can come up with a web os tablet fast, that is within the next couple of months or so, they are also going to benefit from a halo effect (a strange halo effect) of the hp tablet sales helping drive palm phone sales. And who else is better equipped hardware wise than hp to bring a tablet to the market? Rim? Google? (via any dime a dozen manufacturer with android tablets of atrocious quality) MS? (who still don't have a tried and tested mobile os to use and no hardware background) The only one who could potential do it would be from a hardware stand point would be samsung. But they lack the software, and going (as they have already with their latest tablet - like offering) with android won't fix their problems. So here hp when it come to a tablet is ideally positioned.
Unless of course the manage to mess up marketing and strategy wise...
Having said all that apple's aggressive pricing of the ipad (which stems from a dozen or so factors that I've gone into in other posts) has put everyone in the tightest spot they have ever been in, in terms of competing with apple. It's almost a year since launch (i.e. prices for some components have dropped) and no one on the globe has dared take on apple with a similar product. There still is no ipad "killer", not even a clone, not even a more expensive, less capable clone.
It's been 16 months since the last major WebOS update. Much of that is due to the turmoil Palm has had, their monetary situation, and the purchase by Hp. Too much time has been lost.
Now they come out with a phone update that should have been here a year ago. They aren't marking time, they've fallen further behind. I believe that a large number of Palm WebOS owners might switch to this, but that a substantial will number just leave. I can't see too many coming into the platform.
Without any evidence that Palm was already working on a real tablet version of webOS, Hp will be hard pressed to do this within the holiday season. I don't think they want to have something half baked, as that would destroy any credibility they may have with this. But, the longer it takes, the less chance it will have.
I feel pretty sure that the chance for anything other than iOS and Android will be closing quickly after "real" Android tablets come out. WebOS is such a minor player now, that its chance will be very small.
Goodbye Pre's battery.... goodbye. At least it will be user replaceable. ;-)
Why? Do Adobe hate HP as much as they hate Apple or something? Maybe MS will pay Adobe to make sure WebOS doesn't steal last place from WP7.
They also missed a feature....
Battery Life & Responsiveness - As good as the most poorly written, resource-hogging background app we didn't have the foresight to restrict.
McD