It is possible that Apple will be the low price leader among the tablets.
But I think that plenty of people will pay a little extra for a product that meets their needs. Things on the couch, like watching videos and TV, or reading columns of text, or watching live videos of their kid at the day care center. Portability needs, like a doctor making rounds. Or a guy who rides the train to work every morning and wants to bring the tablet to read his newspaper.
Sure - low price is important, and Apple is now vertically integrated and is willing to trim its margins. But there will always be a market for superior products, even at a higher price.
There are many great apps... I'm not a heavy user, but there's good functionality (up to you as to what's "killer") as follows:
Videos - built in app, OplayerHD, CineXPlayer for xvids and stuff
Books - iBooks
PDF - iBooks
MSOffice - DocumentsToGo
Web - Safari, AtomicWeb
Games - Cut The Rope
Stargazing - SkySafari
Magazines - Zinio
I could go on, or I could just send you a screenshot of my home screens
Point is, all the above work nice at the current iPad size. Smaller, may not be as effective.
Yes. I understand your point.
But that is not the point I was responding to. May not be as effective is your point, for some nice apps.
The point I was responding to was different: That there are some killer apps for the iPad, and that these apps will not works at all well at 7 inches.
I am unaware of a single killer app. Accordingly, I am unaware which apps are being held up as proof that a 7 inch tablet is a mistake.
With every app you mention, a 12 inch tablet would be even better, and a 7 inch tablet would be less good. I don't disagree with your point. I was asking about a differerent point.
The question is what phone does the average consumer prefer to buy?
Not which company has lots of profit.
The profit-level is the clearest possible indicator of which company is creating the greatest added value in the eyes of consumers.
Nokia is selling more *units*, but consumers are not prepared to pay a premium on those units. Because they don't think the value is there. This is why Nokia is perceived as failing.
That is the main reason I was so disappointed with the iPad. When I saw that it used a cellphone UI, I kind of wrote it off.
Well, the Galaxy Tab is the best 7" implementation i've seen (on video).
It uses Android Froyo.
Google says that Android Froyo is not suitable for tablets,
Samsung has sidestepped this [mostly] by providing their own version of typical "system apps" -- Mail, Contacts, Notes, Calendar, etc. (Apparently they use the standard Android browser).
In demos of the Tab "system apps" they appear to have rewritten the UI and Presentation to take advantage of the larger [than a smart phone] 7" screen.
The mail app, in particular looks very similar to the mail app on the iPad.
The Calendar app is similar to the iPad, but has some unique features,
The keys in the landscape virtual keyboard have been squished vertically to allow the top half of the screen to be used for display -- the reduced key size and spacing should make it more difficult to use than the nearly full-size virtual kb on the iPad.
It is interesting that these UI changes are unique to the Samsung 7" Galaxy Tab.
They will not scale down to a smaller Galaxy phone.
Had, they taken the iPads 10" UI and scaled it down to the 7" form factor, likely, it would not have worked on the device.
Much of this illustrates what Steve Jobs said -- with our limited current touch tablets, the UI is specific to the device's screen size, and does not scale to smaller sizes (without sandpaper
It will be interesting to see how well other apps, especially 3rd-party apps written for the smaller phones, scale to the 7" size... I suspect it will not be very satisfying.
When it arrives at the friendly, local VZ store -- I'll mosey on down and have a touchy-feely experience with the device.
As I said -- its the best 7" tablet I've seen (almost).
When one chooses a new phone, one compares phones. And following such comparison, the vast majority of people reject the iPhone and buy something else.
Facts is facts.
And following such comparison, the vast majority of people reject every other single phone on the market and buy something else.
It's a bitterly cold day in Motorolaland and Motorola are basking in the warm afterglow of some really nice warm and steamy pants. But there could be some biting cold ahead when that cold wetness hits them.
I am convinced its going to be very hard for Android handset makers to maintain a profit level above any other Android handset maker. Like Windows hardware makers, they have no substantial way of distinguishing their products from any other manufacturers sharing the same software.
This is my theory: Agressive competition between Android handset makers will result in very low revenues for all of them.
I could be wrong. But a couple of years should prove it one way or another.
C.
So should Moto, HTC, Samsung, etc? stop making phones because they can't make the same amount of money? I don't know about you but I'd rather be barely alive than totally dead. No they wont make a lot of money but they'll make enough to make it worthwhile to continue putting out devices. The beauty of Android is I could leave VZW for Sprint, T-Mobile, ATT, etc? buy a phone running Android and all my apps come with me.
Yes, IF the powerusage of the screen is 20% with the 9,7" iPad, 80% being other components, than a 7" would use around 90% (10% less) but have HALF the space for batteries.
Well if the power consumption stats from my android phone are to be believed, the the power usage of the ipad screen would be in the region of 60-80%.
Reason is the power consumption of the phone's screen is usually around 30-40% on normal usage. Normal usage for means the screen is off most of the time and is only activated to or answer messages, receive or make calls or change tracks
Now when i put the phone under heavy usage,browsing the web, playing games, you know those activities which require the screen to be on, the power consumption usually jumps to to 70-80%.
Now normal usage of the ipad requires the screen to be on all the time so i i think the screen might be the biggest culprit for power consumption.
so Verizon will sell the Samsung Galaxy tab with built in 3G for $600 without contract, compared to a wifi iPad plus MiFi for $30 more, $630. or a 3G iPad from AT&T for the same price.
that works out to $29 per square inch of screen area for the Galaxy vs. $14 per square inch for the iPad. or a Galaxy with only 46% of the total screen area of the iPad for 95% of its price.
what a deal, eh? how many suckers going to go for this? when they are both on display side by side in the Verizon store?
yeah, the Galaxy has cameras. so if you want FaceTime - many do - you gotta wait several months for iPad 2. i know, it's tough.
All I can tell you is there was at least one disappointed female over here when I told her that Steve said no 7" iPad - especially after I suggested that there may be a possibility. I should know better than to tell a woman about an Apple rumor. On learning there was no forthcoming 7" iPad she said "Doesn't he know we want one that fits in our purse?."
When I think about it, her fingers are about a quarter the size of mine so she wouldn't need any sand paper.
The question is what phone does the average consumer prefer to buy?
Not which company has lots of profit.
It's not about market share, iGenius, however enough people like it to give Apple the overwhelming majority of profits in the sector, more than the 3 next most profitable combined.
The beauty of Android is I could leave VZW for Sprint, T-Mobile, ATT, etc… buy a phone running Android and all my apps come with me.
That's precisely my point. Consumers can hop from maker to maker.
When you are buying your next phone, you can pick any Android handset because you perceive them all as pretty much the same thing. The brands are interchangeable. Just like Windows machine manufacturers.
This isn't bad for consumers.
But a really really bad thing for handset makers who want to be profitable.
I am not suggesting that Samsung et al should stop making handsets. I am just proposing the idea that outsourcing software development to another company, may result in reduced profitability in the long term.
It's not about market share, iGenius, however enough people like it to give Apple the overwhelming majority of profits in the sector, more than the 3 next most profitable combined.
that's nonsense. Without marketshare, there aren't any profits.
Comments
The Apple phone business is like number 7 worldwide. In the US, isn't it number 3?
The smartphone world...by profit share.
C.
Look at those prices though for 7 inches...
:
It is possible that Apple will be the low price leader among the tablets.
But I think that plenty of people will pay a little extra for a product that meets their needs. Things on the couch, like watching videos and TV, or reading columns of text, or watching live videos of their kid at the day care center. Portability needs, like a doctor making rounds. Or a guy who rides the train to work every morning and wants to bring the tablet to read his newspaper.
Sure - low price is important, and Apple is now vertically integrated and is willing to trim its margins. But there will always be a market for superior products, even at a higher price.
There are many great apps... I'm not a heavy user, but there's good functionality (up to you as to what's "killer") as follows:
Videos - built in app, OplayerHD, CineXPlayer for xvids and stuff
Books - iBooks
PDF - iBooks
MSOffice - DocumentsToGo
Web - Safari, AtomicWeb
Games - Cut The Rope
Stargazing - SkySafari
Magazines - Zinio
I could go on, or I could just send you a screenshot of my home screens
Point is, all the above work nice at the current iPad size. Smaller, may not be as effective.
Yes. I understand your point.
But that is not the point I was responding to. May not be as effective is your point, for some nice apps.
The point I was responding to was different: That there are some killer apps for the iPad, and that these apps will not works at all well at 7 inches.
I am unaware of a single killer app. Accordingly, I am unaware which apps are being held up as proof that a 7 inch tablet is a mistake.
With every app you mention, a 12 inch tablet would be even better, and a 7 inch tablet would be less good. I don't disagree with your point. I was asking about a differerent point.
The smartphone world...by profit share.
C.
Of course. But that ain't the question.
The question is what phone does the average consumer prefer to buy?
Not which company has lots of profit.
Of course. But that ain't the question.
The question is what phone does the average consumer prefer to buy?
Not which company has lots of profit.
The profit-level is the clearest possible indicator of which company is creating the greatest added value in the eyes of consumers.
Nokia is selling more *units*, but consumers are not prepared to pay a premium on those units. Because they don't think the value is there. This is why Nokia is perceived as failing.
C.
Accordingly, I am unaware which apps are being held up as proof that a 7 inch tablet is a mistake.
Any app which shows a full page business document can not function properly on a 7" screen. This is what is known as a deal breaker.
C.
That is the main reason I was so disappointed with the iPad. When I saw that it used a cellphone UI, I kind of wrote it off.
Well, the Galaxy Tab is the best 7" implementation i've seen (on video).
It uses Android Froyo.
Google says that Android Froyo is not suitable for tablets,
Samsung has sidestepped this [mostly] by providing their own version of typical "system apps" -- Mail, Contacts, Notes, Calendar, etc. (Apparently they use the standard Android browser).
In demos of the Tab "system apps" they appear to have rewritten the UI and Presentation to take advantage of the larger [than a smart phone] 7" screen.
The mail app, in particular looks very similar to the mail app on the iPad.
The Calendar app is similar to the iPad, but has some unique features,
The keys in the landscape virtual keyboard have been squished vertically to allow the top half of the screen to be used for display -- the reduced key size and spacing should make it more difficult to use than the nearly full-size virtual kb on the iPad.
It is interesting that these UI changes are unique to the Samsung 7" Galaxy Tab.
They will not scale down to a smaller Galaxy phone.
Had, they taken the iPads 10" UI and scaled it down to the 7" form factor, likely, it would not have worked on the device.
Much of this illustrates what Steve Jobs said -- with our limited current touch tablets, the UI is specific to the device's screen size, and does not scale to smaller sizes (without sandpaper
It will be interesting to see how well other apps, especially 3rd-party apps written for the smaller phones, scale to the 7" size... I suspect it will not be very satisfying.
When it arrives at the friendly, local VZ store -- I'll mosey on down and have a touchy-feely experience with the device.
As I said -- its the best 7" tablet I've seen (almost).
.
When one chooses a new phone, one compares phones. And following such comparison, the vast majority of people reject the iPhone and buy something else.
Facts is facts.
And following such comparison, the vast majority of people reject every other single phone on the market and buy something else.
Some Facts is Pointless.
Everyone. Let's try this again.
Open iChat
Click File ... Go To Chat Room
Type
"appleinsider" (no quotes)
To paraphrase Anssi Vanjoki ..
It's a bitterly cold day in Motorolaland and Motorola are basking in the warm afterglow of some really nice warm and steamy pants. But there could be some biting cold ahead when that cold wetness hits them.
I am convinced its going to be very hard for Android handset makers to maintain a profit level above any other Android handset maker. Like Windows hardware makers, they have no substantial way of distinguishing their products from any other manufacturers sharing the same software.
This is my theory: Agressive competition between Android handset makers will result in very low revenues for all of them.
I could be wrong. But a couple of years should prove it one way or another.
C.
So should Moto, HTC, Samsung, etc? stop making phones because they can't make the same amount of money? I don't know about you but I'd rather be barely alive than totally dead. No they wont make a lot of money but they'll make enough to make it worthwhile to continue putting out devices. The beauty of Android is I could leave VZW for Sprint, T-Mobile, ATT, etc? buy a phone running Android and all my apps come with me.
Yes, IF the powerusage of the screen is 20% with the 9,7" iPad, 80% being other components, than a 7" would use around 90% (10% less) but have HALF the space for batteries.
Well if the power consumption stats from my android phone are to be believed, the the power usage of the ipad screen would be in the region of 60-80%.
Reason is the power consumption of the phone's screen is usually around 30-40% on normal usage. Normal usage for means the screen is off most of the time and is only activated to or answer messages, receive or make calls or change tracks
Now when i put the phone under heavy usage,browsing the web, playing games, you know those activities which require the screen to be on, the power consumption usually jumps to to 70-80%.
Now normal usage of the ipad requires the screen to be on all the time so i i think the screen might be the biggest culprit for power consumption.
that works out to $29 per square inch of screen area for the Galaxy vs. $14 per square inch for the iPad. or a Galaxy with only 46% of the total screen area of the iPad for 95% of its price.
what a deal, eh? how many suckers going to go for this? when they are both on display side by side in the Verizon store?
yeah, the Galaxy has cameras. so if you want FaceTime - many do - you gotta wait several months for iPad 2. i know, it's tough.
When I think about it, her fingers are about a quarter the size of mine so she wouldn't need any sand paper.
Of course. But that ain't the question.
The question is what phone does the average consumer prefer to buy?
Not which company has lots of profit.
It's not about market share, iGenius, however enough people like it to give Apple the overwhelming majority of profits in the sector, more than the 3 next most profitable combined.
a 7" tablet wouldn't differentiate much from a 4" smartphone.
who would want to carry around a 7" device making calls and sending text anyway?
seems to me Balsillie and other 7" tablet manufacturer missed this.
The beauty of Android is I could leave VZW for Sprint, T-Mobile, ATT, etc… buy a phone running Android and all my apps come with me.
That's precisely my point. Consumers can hop from maker to maker.
When you are buying your next phone, you can pick any Android handset because you perceive them all as pretty much the same thing. The brands are interchangeable. Just like Windows machine manufacturers.
This isn't bad for consumers.
But a really really bad thing for handset makers who want to be profitable.
I am not suggesting that Samsung et al should stop making handsets. I am just proposing the idea that outsourcing software development to another company, may result in reduced profitability in the long term.
C.
As in waiting, loading and crashing?
This flash website is gonna be cool!!!! After 10 seconds...
It's not about market share, iGenius, however enough people like it to give Apple the overwhelming majority of profits in the sector, more than the 3 next most profitable combined.
that's nonsense. Without marketshare, there aren't any profits.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard.
steve jobs is smart enough to know almost all, if not all tablet users own a smartphone.
a 7" tablet wouldn't differentiate much from a 4" smartphone.
who would want to carry around a 7" device making calls and sending text anyway?
seems to me Balsillie and other 7" tablet manufacturer missed this.
It's probable they have the statistics to show this, given that the only tablet that has sold in any significant quantity is their own.
that's nonsense. Without marketshare, there aren't any profits.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard.
See below: