<strong>I have another observation. The logo for FOX NEWS' show Hannity and Colmes not so subtley depicts the former conservative host as angelic and the latter democratic host as devlish. How? The colors of the logos: hannity is white while colmes is red. More? Hannity's name is above Colmes, depicting the relative locations of Heaven and Hell.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what you call winning an argument? You're giddy all right. Yes, Roger Ailes is a big time Republican but calling Ted Turner a conservative just shows BRussell's own bias. Fox News doesn't lean any farther to the right than do CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and MSNBC lean to the left.
I'm not saying they should be tortured. Obviously if we preach the higher road, we have to walk it as much as possible (though I have no problem if one of the servicemen who gets urine thrown on him gets to take a free sucker-punch at the Taliban scumbag who did it).
BUT, there's a fundamental flaw in the way the media is allowed to manipulate things / question everything the military does, all in order to make a non-event seem like "breaking news" (in order to then get more ad revenues). The media laws and ethics guidelines should be re-written in such a way that this kind of behavior is discouraged. Which of course means a change in the business model as well (the real heart of the media's problems).
I'm just saying people always look at the military with this sort of unspoken disdain or distrust (until of course people fly airplanes into our sky-scrapers), and the media is more to blame than even the guilty parties of gone-by scandals such as Tailhook or the Army hazing thing....
sjpsu, I don't have to "refute" anything. I'm not into the whole digital sandbox pissing contest thing. I stated my opinions/beliefs, then I read and appreciated BRussell's and Samantha's, and that's what it is.
Tomato, ta-mah-to.
There are other people on this board who like to go back and forth over 8 pages, quoting each other's previous posts, providing obscure links to back up their statements, degenerating into personal insults, etc.
Go find one of them to bother to "refute" BRussell's facts.
FAIR is a well-know liberal (radical, even) -funded left-wing organization. They present information as if the far left was the center.
By the way, they used to have a commentator on FOX News, but he could not make an arguement without eventually resorting to "I know I'm correct, therefore you are wrong," when cornered with the facts.
BTW, that is the definition of Ivy League Elitism: regardless of reality, they "just know better" than the rest of us.
As for Fox News, it is fair because it is direct and honest. The libs are defined, and the conservatives are defined - you choose who you trust.
I just want everybody to remember this next time someone flies off the handle when some actor or actress dares to say something . . . lets see . . slightly left of right.
now we know
liberals have educated actors, from working class households and not-too-beautiful singers
conservatives have cowboys, truck stop crooners and Moses
This is what you call winning an argument? You're giddy all right. Yes, Roger Ailes is a big time Republican but calling Ted Turner a conservative just shows BRussell's own bias. Fox News doesn't lean any farther to the right than do CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and MSNBC lean to the left.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was another observation. BRussell said that he STARTED as a conservative. Did you even read the articles? They thoroughly refute your bogus claim.
<strong>sjpsu, I don't have to "refute" anything. I'm not into the whole digital sandbox pissing contest thing. I stated my opinions/beliefs, then I read and appreciated BRussell's and Samantha's, and that's what it is.
Tomato, ta-mah-to.
There are other people on this board who like to go back and forth over 8 pages, quoting each other's previous posts, providing obscure links to back up their statements, degenerating into personal insults, etc.
Go find one of them to bother to "refute" BRussell's facts.
<strong>sjpsu, I don't have to "refute" anything. I'm not into the whole digital sandbox pissing contest thing. I stated my opinions/beliefs, then I read and appreciated BRussell's and Samantha's, and that's what it is.
Tomato, ta-mah-to.</strong><hr></blockquote>The new one is "you say jag-war, I say jag-wire."
We had this debate a while ago about liberal media and I found an old (like 1980) article about Turner that also described him as a conservative. But I couldn't find it again.
I did find that in his autobiography he says he's a "lifelong Republican," and "I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Right. You're wrong so it's "just a message board."
Obscure links? Do you even know who Rich Lowry of the National Review is?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, he's that guy who looks like he's about 11 years old. I've seen him on TV a few times. I know who lots of people are.
It's a "message board", whether I'm right or wrong. Check the archives. I don't do much multi-page, "back and forth" bickering. I usually say what I say and follow the thread. People like ScottH, groverat, Samantha, BRussell, moogs, Fran441, solishu, noah, etc. are much better at the really good debating.
I do think your odd, antagonistic venom is a little out of place. Have I wronged you in a previous life? Just checking...
<strong>I did find that in his autobiography he says he's a "lifelong Republican," and "I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."</strong><hr></blockquote>
He's just an odd, freakish person any way you cut it. I watched that bio of him on A&E or one of those channels. Had to cringe on more than several occasions.
"I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, sort of like Christine Todd Whitman or Bill Weld. Only that combination once in political office doesn't tend to stay conservative fiscally. At any rate, a lot of Democrats describe themselves that way too. If he says he's a lifelong Republican, then I guess he is.
But he sure seems to be seriously out of phase with the party.
^ I agree. Ted Turner is the largest private landowner in the nation. He represents the environmental extreme left- really out of phase with most republicans.
Did you even read the articles? They thoroughly refute your bogus claim.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know what FAIR is. It doesn't surprise me that their study broke the way it did. For all I know, it may even be on the level. That still doesn't refute what I wrote earlier.
Yeah, sort of like Christine Todd Whitman or Bill Weld. Only that combination once in political office doesn't tend to stay conservative fiscally.</strong><hr></blockquote>I know, that's the political equivalent of saying "I like all kinds of music," i.e., not very interesting or original. Even Jesse Ventura describes himself like that.
BTW, would you say that Republicans are conservative fiscally?
My take on the liberal bias is:
1. to say the media are liberal is an absolute statement, but of course these things are relative. "The media are more liberal than me" would be a more fair statement. It's probably true that the media are more liberal than most Americans, but then one could just as legitimately conclude that Americans are conservative as that the media are liberal. And in the only context there is, the world, Americans do seem to be on the conservative side of things.
2. If that's true, there's only one way to solve it - more of you conservatives should go into journalism. What do you want, affirmative action? Get off your duffs and do it yourself, rather than whining about it like you've been doing the past 30 years. I personally think they like having the enemy more than they like changing the situation.
2. If you look at the networks, there seem to be a good mix of liberal and conservative commentators, with people like Rush Limbaugh, George Will, Robert Novak, Bill O'Reilly, etc. Does CNN really have more shows with liberal commentators? The argument from the conservatives has always been that there are more liberal anchors and news chiefs. I believe that's probably true, but the problem is that these people usually don't openly state their political affiliations, so it's really only a guess. For example, Mara Liasson, who appears on Fox implicitly for the liberal side, is apparently a Republican, according to that FAIR report above.
Comments
<strong>I have another observation. The logo for FOX NEWS' show Hannity and Colmes not so subtley depicts the former conservative host as angelic and the latter democratic host as devlish. How? The colors of the logos: hannity is white while colmes is red. More? Hannity's name is above Colmes, depicting the relative locations of Heaven and Hell.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what you call winning an argument? You're giddy all right. Yes, Roger Ailes is a big time Republican but calling Ted Turner a conservative just shows BRussell's own bias. Fox News doesn't lean any farther to the right than do CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and MSNBC lean to the left.
I'm not saying they should be tortured. Obviously if we preach the higher road, we have to walk it as much as possible (though I have no problem if one of the servicemen who gets urine thrown on him gets to take a free sucker-punch at the Taliban scumbag who did it).
BUT, there's a fundamental flaw in the way the media is allowed to manipulate things / question everything the military does, all in order to make a non-event seem like "breaking news" (in order to then get more ad revenues). The media laws and ethics guidelines should be re-written in such a way that this kind of behavior is discouraged. Which of course means a change in the business model as well (the real heart of the media's problems).
I'm just saying people always look at the military with this sort of unspoken disdain or distrust (until of course people fly airplanes into our sky-scrapers), and the media is more to blame than even the guilty parties of gone-by scandals such as Tailhook or the Army hazing thing....
[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Im sorry. I don't usually make this kind of post, but that last comment (see above) prompted the following reactions, in no specific order:
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
Tomato, ta-mah-to.
There are other people on this board who like to go back and forth over 8 pages, quoting each other's previous posts, providing obscure links to back up their statements, degenerating into personal insults, etc.
Go find one of them to bother to "refute" BRussell's facts.
Relax. It's just a message board...
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
FAIR is a well-know liberal (radical, even) -funded left-wing organization. They present information as if the far left was the center.
By the way, they used to have a commentator on FOX News, but he could not make an arguement without eventually resorting to "I know I'm correct, therefore you are wrong," when cornered with the facts.
BTW, that is the definition of Ivy League Elitism: regardless of reality, they "just know better" than the rest of us.
As for Fox News, it is fair because it is direct and honest. The libs are defined, and the conservatives are defined - you choose who you trust.
Funny, huh?
Barbra Streisand being a democrat...the greatest weapon in the Republican armory!
[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
now we know
liberals have educated actors, from working class households and not-too-beautiful singers
conservatives have cowboys, truck stop crooners and Moses
<strong>
This is what you call winning an argument? You're giddy all right. Yes, Roger Ailes is a big time Republican but calling Ted Turner a conservative just shows BRussell's own bias. Fox News doesn't lean any farther to the right than do CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and MSNBC lean to the left.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was another observation. BRussell said that he STARTED as a conservative. Did you even read the articles? They thoroughly refute your bogus claim.
<strong>sjpsu, I don't have to "refute" anything. I'm not into the whole digital sandbox pissing contest thing. I stated my opinions/beliefs, then I read and appreciated BRussell's and Samantha's, and that's what it is.
Tomato, ta-mah-to.
There are other people on this board who like to go back and forth over 8 pages, quoting each other's previous posts, providing obscure links to back up their statements, degenerating into personal insults, etc.
Go find one of them to bother to "refute" BRussell's facts.
Relax. It's just a message board...
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Right. You're wrong so it's "just a message board."
Obscure links? Do you even know who Rich Lowry of the National Review is?
<strong>sjpsu, I don't have to "refute" anything. I'm not into the whole digital sandbox pissing contest thing. I stated my opinions/beliefs, then I read and appreciated BRussell's and Samantha's, and that's what it is.
Tomato, ta-mah-to.</strong><hr></blockquote>The new one is "you say jag-war, I say jag-wire."
We had this debate a while ago about liberal media and I found an old (like 1980) article about Turner that also described him as a conservative. But I couldn't find it again.
I did find that in his autobiography he says he's a "lifelong Republican," and "I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Right. You're wrong so it's "just a message board."
Obscure links? Do you even know who Rich Lowry of the National Review is?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, he's that guy who looks like he's about 11 years old. I've seen him on TV a few times. I know who lots of people are.
It's a "message board", whether I'm right or wrong. Check the archives. I don't do much multi-page, "back and forth" bickering. I usually say what I say and follow the thread. People like ScottH, groverat, Samantha, BRussell, moogs, Fran441, solishu, noah, etc. are much better at the really good debating.
I do think your odd, antagonistic venom is a little out of place. Have I wronged you in a previous life? Just checking...
<strong>I did find that in his autobiography he says he's a "lifelong Republican," and "I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."</strong><hr></blockquote>
He's just an odd, freakish person any way you cut it. I watched that bio of him on A&E or one of those channels. Had to cringe on more than several occasions.
<strong>
"I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, sort of like Christine Todd Whitman or Bill Weld. Only that combination once in political office doesn't tend to stay conservative fiscally. At any rate, a lot of Democrats describe themselves that way too. If he says he's a lifelong Republican, then I guess he is.
But he sure seems to be seriously out of phase with the party.
<strong>
Did you even read the articles? They thoroughly refute your bogus claim.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know what FAIR is. It doesn't surprise me that their study broke the way it did. For all I know, it may even be on the level. That still doesn't refute what I wrote earlier.
<strong>quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BRussell:
"I'm conservative fiscally and liberal socially."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, sort of like Christine Todd Whitman or Bill Weld. Only that combination once in political office doesn't tend to stay conservative fiscally.</strong><hr></blockquote>I know, that's the political equivalent of saying "I like all kinds of music," i.e., not very interesting or original. Even Jesse Ventura describes himself like that.
BTW, would you say that Republicans are conservative fiscally?
My take on the liberal bias is:
1. to say the media are liberal is an absolute statement, but of course these things are relative. "The media are more liberal than me" would be a more fair statement. It's probably true that the media are more liberal than most Americans, but then one could just as legitimately conclude that Americans are conservative as that the media are liberal. And in the only context there is, the world, Americans do seem to be on the conservative side of things.
2. If that's true, there's only one way to solve it - more of you conservatives should go into journalism. What do you want, affirmative action? Get off your duffs and do it yourself, rather than whining about it like you've been doing the past 30 years. I personally think they like having the enemy more than they like changing the situation.
2. If you look at the networks, there seem to be a good mix of liberal and conservative commentators, with people like Rush Limbaugh, George Will, Robert Novak, Bill O'Reilly, etc. Does CNN really have more shows with liberal commentators? The argument from the conservatives has always been that there are more liberal anchors and news chiefs. I believe that's probably true, but the problem is that these people usually don't openly state their political affiliations, so it's really only a guess. For example, Mara Liasson, who appears on Fox implicitly for the liberal side, is apparently a Republican, according to that FAIR report above.