Apple's iPhone tops US smartphone shipments, but Android devices take 44%

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  • Reply 221 of 233
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    All these arguments about what to count, phone, tablet, media player, etc. are ridiculous. What stats are relevant depend on what issue you want to look at. So can we please stop with the back and forth?



    If for example, you're the CEO of a company that sold 3G baseband chipsets to Apple and Android OEMs, would you care about Apple's iPod Touch sales? OTOH if you are a developer, why would you not take into account iPod Touch and iPad sales?







    For me, as a user, I really only care about the installed base up to a point....that point being the tipping point at which the platform I am on is big enough to attract all the apps I want. This is why I really would not consider WP7 or Blackberry right now. Beyond that, I really don't give a damn. 100 000 vs 300 000. I really don't care. And for the most part, I really don't care if iOS or Android or WP7 gets the app first. As long as I get the app I want eventually. I suspect that my views aren't all that uncommon among non-techies.
  • Reply 222 of 233
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,204member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    All these arguments about what to count, phone, tablet, media player, etc. are ridiculous. What stats are relevant depend on what issue you want to look at. So can we please stop with the back and forth?



    If for example, you're the CEO of a company that sold 3G baseband chipsets to Apple and Android OEMs, would you care about Apple's iPod Touch sales? OTOH if you are a developer, why would you not take into account iPod Touch and iPad sales?







    For me, as a user, I really only care about the installed base up to a point....that point being the tipping point at which the platform I am on is big enough to attract all the apps I want. This is why I really would not consider WP7 or Blackberry right now. Beyond that, I really don't give a damn. 100 000 vs 300 000. I really don't care. And for the most part, I really don't care if iOS or Android or WP7 gets the app first. As long as I get the app I want eventually. I suspect that my views aren't all that uncommon among non-techies.



    If course it matters to normal casual users of an OS - like a casual gamer - that games are released first, or at all. So gamers do not buy Macs.
  • Reply 223 of 233
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,039member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    No what I am comparing is OS vs OS. I keep saying that. I dont care about Apple's profit. I have no shares. I care about my job as an iOS developer. I say that and you come back with the same boilerplate: You are the one that keeps saying that marketshare is more important than profit. Yes, it is. For everybody else, that is what matters.



    Marketshare is just a base metric. Your product's success depends on access to that marketshare. You cannot assume that Apple's App Store, Android Market or even free-range web downloads provide the same market access - they almost certainly will not. By product selection Apple's customers prove they're prepared to spend money, Android/Windows followers prove they do not. Android's "openness" allows circumvention & theft of Market, Apps Store does not & no, most people don't jailbreak their iPhones.



    The big question is will an OSX developer make more money through the Mac App store than yet another Windows developer with more random access and dozens of incumbent competitors?



    McD
  • Reply 224 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by McDave View Post


    Android's "openness" allows circumvention & theft of Market, Apps Store does not



    McD



    It's true that the openness of Android allows for the possibility of circumventing the Market. But how many "typical"(read: non-techie) users would know exactly where to go and what to do to steal the apps? Even the easiest ways to attempt to steal an app wouldn't appear straight-forward to the normal user.



    Easiest path, if I had to pick, would be to go for a torrent site. But again, how many "typical" users know what torrents are and how to use a torrent client?



    Another path I've found is to search up the .apk file using Google (ironic, no?) then use another third-party app to install the .apk file. Again, how many general users know that apps are .apk files? Or where to find this installer app?



    It's my opinion that no more people go through the trouble to steal Android apps than iDevice users jailbreak their devices.
  • Reply 225 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    It's true that the openness of Android allows for the possibility of circumventing the Market. But how many "typical"(read: non-techie) users would know exactly where to go and what to do to steal the apps? Even the easiest ways to attempt to steal an app wouldn't appear straight-forward to the normal user.



    Easiest path, if I had to pick, would be to go for a torrent site. But again, how many "typical" users know what torrents are and how to use a torrent client?



    Another path I've found is to search up the .apk file using Google (ironic, no?) then use another third-party app to install the .apk file. Again, how many general users know that apps are .apk files? Or where to find this installer app?



    It's my opinion that no more people go through the trouble to steal Android apps than iDevice users jailbreak their devices.



    Someone noted above that the Android demographic is younger. Gee, I wonder which age demographic is most familiar with torrents? Certainly not the one that grew up with LimeWire.



    None of my younger nieces and nephews are what you would call "techies"...you do not need to be one to torrent or load a .apk. How hard is it to stick the apk on a SD card and use Astro? Not very. Hell, you can get a torrent app and torrent apks from TPB and skip the SD card step.



    Me, I can't be bothered to mess with that anymore despite having cruised on the old crack bbses to get warez 20 fricking years ago. Not for a $1.99 app. So I'm guessing that the iPhone crowd, even those with the skillz to jailbreak and torrent apps, is less inclined in general than the younger droid crowd.



    Not to mention that some of the hardcore droid crowd are "free software enthusiasts" with little respect for proprietary software or their devs.
  • Reply 226 of 233
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    For now. And that's the key word.

    I would assert that the iPhone's higher tax bracket clientele is at least in part a function of the iPhone being the first to market. Early smartphone adopters are folks with money. That does not necessarily mean that over time, this same class of wealthy early adopters will stick to the iPhone.



    Apple was first to market two handset lifetimes ago. The early adopters like myself have had two opportunities to shift handset. I don't think a shift away from iPhone is that likely for a few reasons.



    iTunes, infrastructure, investment. Existing owners are invested in the platform, with their music, apps and so on.



    And device satisfaction ratings for iPhone owners is still higher than other platforms.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    There's also the age factor. I recently read that Android users tend to be significantly younger than iPhone users.



    And the iPod Touch is given as a games machine to 10 year olds.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    The iPad benefited from the iPhone's halo. Android tablets will certainly experience a similar effect from strong handset sales.



    I am skeptical about the Android tablets selling well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    So this whole 5-10x more profitability argument, is very much a snapshot in time argument and I think most developers recognise that.



    I agree it is temporary. Everything is temporary. But it is the current situation.



    Anyone who sets out to be mobile developer today, should be aware of the situation and base their development decisions on the current state of play.



    If the market changes in future then they should adapt.



    C.
  • Reply 227 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Someone noted above that the Android demographic is younger. Gee, I wonder which age demographic is most familiar with torrents? Certainly not the one that grew up with LimeWire.



    None of my younger nieces and nephews are what you would call "techies"...you do not need to be one to torrent or load a .apk. How hard is it to stick the apk on a SD card and use Astro? Not very. Hell, you can get a torrent app and torrent apks from TPB and skip the SD card step.



    Me, I can't be bothered to mess with that anymore despite having cruised on the old crack bbses to get warez 20 fricking years ago. Not for a $1.99 app. So I'm guessing that the iPhone crowd, even those with the skillz to jailbreak and torrent apps, is less inclined in general than the younger droid crowd.



    Not to mention that some of the hardcore droid crowd are "free software enthusiasts" with little respect for proprietary software or their devs.



    Younger still does not necessarily mean that they know what torrents are or how to use them. Just because the younger generation grew up using Limewire, doesn't mean that every single one of them used it or knew how to use it. Have you considered that there might be young people that decided to focus on things other than torrent sites?



    Yes, I agree that once you do do it, it's not at all hard to find an .apk. This requires the person to want to make that step in the first place. Going back to your statement about being not inclined to go through the trouble for a $1.99 app. What makes you believe that the Android crowd is any more inclined to steal them if you claim the iPhone jailbreakers aren't?



    Another question to ask is: If it's really as easy as you make it out to steal .apks, then why aren't we hearing more of it from the tech websites or Google? Essentially, why aren't more and more people doing it?



    To your "hardcore droid (sic)" comment, I have to completely disagree with you. A lot of us know that developers are struggling a bit to make a comfortable amount on the Market and we support them in any way we can. If the app is a well-made app that delivers, there are no problems handing over a few dollars to have them continue to provide and improve the app.



    But the real "hardcore" crowd are the ones that use all the custom ROMs developers create. Many of whom are just college students working in-between stressful classes. And we have no issues donating money to them in support of their hard work to get us the latest OS updates when carriers like Verizon or the OEMs lag.



    One of the biggest forums for hardcore Android users is www.alldroid.org. I challenge you to sign up there and make the same comment you made about the "hardcore droid (sic)" crowd in any of the developer threads.
  • Reply 228 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Younger still does not necessarily mean that they know what torrents are or how to use them. Just because the younger generation grew up using Limewire, doesn't mean that every single one of them used it or knew how to use it. Have you considered that there might be young people that decided to focus on things other than torrent sites?



    Do you actually know any young people? Or ever torrented? Because this isn't some arcane unix thing that only geeks do.



    Quote:

    Yes, I agree that once you do do it, it's not at all hard to find an .apk. This requires the person to want to make that step in the first place. Going back to your statement about being not inclined to go through the trouble for a $1.99 app. What makes you believe that the Android crowd is any more inclined to steal them if you claim the iPhone jailbreakers aren't?



    Younger with less income than old farts like me. $1.99 is nothing to me even if I bought a hundred of the things. When I was in college $1.99 is one (or two) less pitcher(s) of beer on Friday.



    Now I can afford beer and apps without thinking about it.



    Quote:

    Another question to ask is: If it's really as easy as you make it out to steal .apks, then why aren't we hearing more of it from the tech websites or Google? Essentially, why aren't more and more people doing it?



    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=android+piracy



    Gee that was hard. iOS piracy is simply considered far less of an issue for devs than on android. Thank god I'm not a android market dev but an enterprise android dev and can avoid all that market idiocy even if I make no revenue. All of my market apps would likely be free anyway and open sourced unless I wrote a game or something.



    Quote:

    To your "hardcore droid (sic)" comment, I have to completely disagree with you. A lot of us know that developers are struggling a bit to make a comfortable amount on the Market and we support them in any way we can. If the app is a well-made app that delivers, there are no problems handing over a few dollars to have them continue to provide and improve the app.



    I'm talking about folks with a religious view on software. Disagree all you want but there are a lot of linux folks using Android because it is "free" and a deep seated bias against proprietary software which 90% of app are. Some of these folks have a pirated copy of Windows to dual boot into for games or whatever. Loading a few proprietary .apks is just shafting those evil closed source people out to sabotage their precious freedoms.



    Okay, mostly these types of FSF zealots are kids but that also ties into that "lack-o-money" aspect. This provides them some ethical top cover for piracy.
  • Reply 229 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Do you actually know any young people? Or ever torrented? Because this isn't some arcane unix thing that only geeks do.



    If you must know, I'm 25. And I have indeed used torrents before. I understand it's not something only geeks do.



    Quote:

    Younger with less income than old farts like me. $1.99 is nothing to me even if I bought a hundred of the things. When I was in college $1.99 is one (or two) less pitcher(s) of beer on Friday.



    Now I can afford beer and apps without thinking about it.



    And what makes you think that us younger folk are scraping the bottom of the barrel? I graduated college a few years ago and there are plenty of opportunities to earn money, especially while working for the college itself. Believe it or not, not all of us look at the $1.99 as beer money. Besides, the Market's 24 hour refund period ensures that if it ends up not meeting your needs, then you can get your money back.



    Also, consider purchasing a smartphone on Verizon, for example. You would have to put down $299.99 + tax up front. And foot an $80 bill month to month. If you can foot this expense, then apps that cost a few dollars will be nothing. Otherwise, you have more important things that money should be going towards than a smartphone.



    Quote:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=android+piracy



    Gee that was hard. iOS piracy is simply considered far less of an issue for devs than on android. Thank god I'm not a android market dev but an enterprise android dev and can avoid all that market idiocy even if I make no revenue. All of my market apps would likely be free anyway and open sourced unless I wrote a game or something.



    I have done this and the few sites that show up with stories are based off of measurements of individual apps. What I would personally like to see is an overall view of piracy.



    And from reading those sites, the main idea I got was that it Android isn't fostering a "culture of piracy", if you will (the original point of my posts). But rather, most of it is because users prefer to use methods of payment that aren't currently available on the Market (PayPal, carrier billing, etc).



    Another thought is that in most countries where the Market is not open yet, people are resorting to piracy in order to get the apps they want.



    Both of these can be resolved by Google opening up the Market to more and more countries and adding in more forms of payment. Both of which it is actively doing. I believe that having these in place will determine whether or not Android's openness is actually fostering a "culture of piracy".



    Quote:

    I'm talking about folks with a religious view on software. Disagree all you want but there are a lot of linux folks using Android because it is "free" and a deep seated bias against proprietary software which 90% of app are. Some of these folks have a pirated copy of Windows to dual boot into for games or whatever. Loading a few proprietary .apks is just shafting those evil closed source people out to sabotage their precious freedoms.



    Okay, mostly these types of FSF zealots are kids but that also ties into that "lack-o-money" aspect. This provides them some ethical top cover for piracy.



    Then yeah, we're talking about two different groups here. As you put it, I would consider those more "religious". Compared to the general user, one who tinkers with custom ROMs would be considered "hardcore".
  • Reply 230 of 233
    nhtnht Posts: 4,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    If you must know, I'm 25. And I have indeed used torrents before. I understand it's not something only geeks do.



    Then why are you claiming this is somehow hard or uncommon? It isn't.



    Quote:

    And what makes you think that us younger folk are scraping the bottom of the barrel? I graduated college a few years ago and there are plenty of opportunities to earn money, especially while working for the college itself. Believe it or not, not all of us look at the $1.99 as beer money. Besides, the Market's 24 hour refund period ensures that if it ends up not meeting your needs, then you can get your money back.



    Right, the same folks that happily will torrent a song or DVD is going to not torrent an app that they might like but probably not enough to actually want to pay for it.



    Quote:

    I have done this and the few sites that show up with stories are based off of measurements of individual apps. What I would personally like to see is an overall view of piracy.



    Translation: I have no data but I completely reject yours and claim no evidence exists while I attempt to move goal posts. I also ignore the opinions of actual android devs that think piracy is more of a problem on Android than on iOS.



    Quote:

    And from reading those sites, the main idea I got was that it Android isn't fostering a "culture of piracy", if you will (the original point of my posts). But rather, most of it is because users prefer to use methods of payment that aren't currently available on the Market (PayPal, carrier billing, etc).



    People pirate android apps because they cant buy them via carrier billing? Really?



    Quote:

    Another thought is that in most countries where the Market is not open yet, people are resorting to piracy in order to get the apps they want.



    This statement totally ignores the data available from the apps that are tracking android piracy by region.
  • Reply 231 of 233
    There has been so much hype about a Jan 2011 release of a Verizon Iphone, I predict that it it doesn't happen, you will see a huge move to the droids for the folks who have been waiting patiently and don't want to wait until June 2011
  • Reply 232 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lindalu70 View Post


    There has been so much hype about a Jan 2011 release of a Verizon Iphone, I predict that it it doesn't happen, you will see a huge move to the droids for the folks who have been waiting patiently and don't want to wait until June 2011



    good possibility, however if another carrier like Sprint gets the IPHONE4 you might see a big move there instead. On the other hand, if Verizon does not get the Iphone in January which is 50/50 people might be inclined to wait for the IPHONE5 which will only be another few months away. One thing is certain, if we don't see Verizon with the IPHONE in January we will see many more rumors and stories thats its coming soon.
  • Reply 233 of 233
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post


    One thing is certain, if we don't see Verizon with the IPHONE in January we will see many more rumors and stories thats its coming soon.



    Round and round the rumor mill goes...
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