I think you seriously misread what solipsism was trying to say.
No I read it just fine.
Quote:
By the way, what IT department would buy 1000s of a product that only came on the market a couple weeks ago?
I never said that I bought an thousand MacBook Airs, nor should you have assumed such. The discussion is about Apple's track record with products and the habit for posters here to call people "whiny trolls" if you complain about a problem with an Apple product you just purchased and expect to work.
If I have one buggy or defective Apple product, I handle it accordingly and don't jump to conclusions. No big deal, I'll get it fixed under warranty.
If I see a hundred Apple products with an indentical problem, I treat is as a problem that needs to be addressed by Apple on a larger scale.
It is however really damn ignorant to assume that just because a problem hasn't happened to you that none exists.
In fairness to Apple, this is not confined to them. I had to live through the problem with massive numbers of Dell computer motherboards failing and it took years for them to even fully disclose the problem.
People need to turn fanboy mode off for a minute to think clearly.
These conversations always come done to subjective terms. You say “reasonable”, but that can’t be defined. Is 0.1% of a product a reasonable number? That’s 1 in 1000. If they produce 5 million Macs this quarter that is a half-million with issues. a half million of anything is a lot.....
Whoops-- .1% is indeed 1 in a 1000, but that's 5,000 problems per 5,000,000 quarter, not half a million-- which would be .1 times the total, or 1 in 10-- which I don't think even a QC challenged Apple would be stooping to.
I wouldn't call byself a fanboy but have liked apple products since the II+.
That said, recently they have released a number of items, both hardware and software that didn't seem to be tested fully.
I don't know any other vendor does any better but my impression is that they might be rushing things out the door just to stay ahead of everyone else.
I would tend to agree with that. In all fairness to manufacturers, products seem to have increased in complexity by quantum leaps. And in that complexity there seems to be an even higher level of possible configurations that may or may not drastically alter the end user experience.
That being said, the fact that Microsoft released Office for Mac 2011 without syncing capabilities just boggles the mind. It's a trend these days to rush product development and delivery - neither or which will improve the end user experience in the long run.
I wouldn't call byself a fanboy but have liked apple products since the II+.
That said, recently they have released a number of items, both hardware and software that didn't seem to be tested fully.
I don't know any other vendor does any better but my impression is that they might be rushing things out the door just to stay ahead of everyone else.
My sense is that people have been saying almost precisely that about Apple for, I dunno, about the last 25 years?
For instance, the original Macs were fanless, which led to chronic overheating problems (sound familiar?) The PowerMac 6200 was famously terrible, Rev 1 G3 towers had drive problems, the original flat panel iMac overheated and shut down, etc., etc.
I don't know if Apple is on par with the industry when it comes to hardware problems, but I don't think they're getting worse.
One of the problems is Apple is a victim of their own hype. You know it "just works", "its like using your toaster". Nothing just works.
Also many talk about how Apple uses better hardware then everyone else. In many cases that simply isn't true. You can pick out 20 iMacs and using a simple example could have three different vendors when it comes to the slot loaded drives.
Clearly with the iMac issue and maybe this one they are using different logic boards or different memory on those logic board, with the iMac they were not only using different logic boards but down clocking a ATI 2600XT to a 2600GT due to heat issues.
With the first gen Alu iMac that was released I believe in late Jul or early Aug it took them until that November to resolve the issue. Thats a log freaking time for someone that has a system lockup daily.
I had that iMac and I was lucky enough to have the logic board that was did not have issues but friends of mine weren't as lucky and you could get that iMac to lockup at will and Apple was calling it an isolated issue. It was far from isolated and they denied the issue for a long time.
You and I have both been long time Apple owners and if you go back in time and really look at all the issues regarding screen, firmware and heat issues there are alot. Far more then I have ever had with any Sony, HP or custom built system I own.
People say MS releases their software in beta I always feel the same when it comes to Apple and hardware.
This isn't me ripping on Apple or defending anyone else its just how I see the situation based on my long history of ownership. This is why I almost never buy a first gen Apple product or when they release software I never upgread until about version .4. I actually do that when it comes to any software of hardware.
The only recent exception was the iPad.
"...could have three different vendors when it comes to the slot loaded drives. ..."
The number of manufacturers is irrelevant if all the drives are built to the required specifications and tolerances. Having multiple vendors for components is actually a very good idea to insure an adequate supply and as a safeguard in the event of a QC problem with any one source.
Comments
I think you seriously misread what solipsism was trying to say.
No I read it just fine.
By the way, what IT department would buy 1000s of a product that only came on the market a couple weeks ago?
I never said that I bought an thousand MacBook Airs, nor should you have assumed such. The discussion is about Apple's track record with products and the habit for posters here to call people "whiny trolls" if you complain about a problem with an Apple product you just purchased and expect to work.
If I have one buggy or defective Apple product, I handle it accordingly and don't jump to conclusions. No big deal, I'll get it fixed under warranty.
If I see a hundred Apple products with an indentical problem, I treat is as a problem that needs to be addressed by Apple on a larger scale.
It is however really damn ignorant to assume that just because a problem hasn't happened to you that none exists.
In fairness to Apple, this is not confined to them. I had to live through the problem with massive numbers of Dell computer motherboards failing and it took years for them to even fully disclose the problem.
People need to turn fanboy mode off for a minute to think clearly.
These conversations always come done to subjective terms. You say “reasonable”, but that can’t be defined. Is 0.1% of a product a reasonable number? That’s 1 in 1000. If they produce 5 million Macs this quarter that is a half-million with issues. a half million of anything is a lot.....
Whoops-- .1% is indeed 1 in a 1000, but that's 5,000 problems per 5,000,000 quarter, not half a million-- which would be .1 times the total, or 1 in 10-- which I don't think even a QC challenged Apple would be stooping to.
No I read it just fine....
...
People need to turn fanboy mode off for a minute to think clearly.
Thanks for straightening me out on that. I promise to think clearly while I add you to my "ignore" list.
That said, recently they have released a number of items, both hardware and software that didn't seem to be tested fully.
I don't know any other vendor does any better but my impression is that they might be rushing things out the door just to stay ahead of everyone else.
I wouldn't call byself a fanboy but have liked apple products since the II+.
That said, recently they have released a number of items, both hardware and software that didn't seem to be tested fully.
I don't know any other vendor does any better but my impression is that they might be rushing things out the door just to stay ahead of everyone else.
I would tend to agree with that. In all fairness to manufacturers, products seem to have increased in complexity by quantum leaps. And in that complexity there seems to be an even higher level of possible configurations that may or may not drastically alter the end user experience.
That being said, the fact that Microsoft released Office for Mac 2011 without syncing capabilities just boggles the mind. It's a trend these days to rush product development and delivery - neither or which will improve the end user experience in the long run.
I wouldn't call byself a fanboy but have liked apple products since the II+.
That said, recently they have released a number of items, both hardware and software that didn't seem to be tested fully.
I don't know any other vendor does any better but my impression is that they might be rushing things out the door just to stay ahead of everyone else.
My sense is that people have been saying almost precisely that about Apple for, I dunno, about the last 25 years?
For instance, the original Macs were fanless, which led to chronic overheating problems (sound familiar?) The PowerMac 6200 was famously terrible, Rev 1 G3 towers had drive problems, the original flat panel iMac overheated and shut down, etc., etc.
I don't know if Apple is on par with the industry when it comes to hardware problems, but I don't think they're getting worse.
Stop calling people that are trying to have a logical conversation a troll, you sound like an ass. Grow the hell up.
And like you don't?
One of the problems is Apple is a victim of their own hype. You know it "just works", "its like using your toaster". Nothing just works.
Also many talk about how Apple uses better hardware then everyone else. In many cases that simply isn't true. You can pick out 20 iMacs and using a simple example could have three different vendors when it comes to the slot loaded drives.
Clearly with the iMac issue and maybe this one they are using different logic boards or different memory on those logic board, with the iMac they were not only using different logic boards but down clocking a ATI 2600XT to a 2600GT due to heat issues.
With the first gen Alu iMac that was released I believe in late Jul or early Aug it took them until that November to resolve the issue. Thats a log freaking time for someone that has a system lockup daily.
I had that iMac and I was lucky enough to have the logic board that was did not have issues but friends of mine weren't as lucky and you could get that iMac to lockup at will and Apple was calling it an isolated issue. It was far from isolated and they denied the issue for a long time.
You and I have both been long time Apple owners and if you go back in time and really look at all the issues regarding screen, firmware and heat issues there are alot. Far more then I have ever had with any Sony, HP or custom built system I own.
People say MS releases their software in beta I always feel the same when it comes to Apple and hardware.
This isn't me ripping on Apple or defending anyone else its just how I see the situation based on my long history of ownership. This is why I almost never buy a first gen Apple product or when they release software I never upgread until about version .4. I actually do that when it comes to any software of hardware.
The only recent exception was the iPad.
"...could have three different vendors when it comes to the slot loaded drives. ..."
The number of manufacturers is irrelevant if all the drives are built to the required specifications and tolerances. Having multiple vendors for components is actually a very good idea to insure an adequate supply and as a safeguard in the event of a QC problem with any one source.