I think that's it. The England team had the talent but not the attitude, that killer instinct you need to get to the very top. Maybe that has got a lot to do with excessive celebrity and stratospheric salaries. Brazil just cared that vital bit more about winning.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Its not neccesarily the salaries as much as its Englands manager.
Dont get me wrong, i rate Sven. But his style of managing doesnt work for English football.
English football depends on making a team, where each player knows each other and they all work together. Its a very similar mentality Germany used to have.
Svens' Managing skills are based on tactics, strategies and logically thought out planning. This, although effective in Italy and on the continent, is not the way English football works.
The best demonstration of this was in Euro 96, under Terry Venables, the England team were a Formidable force. He did not manage England by finding technical issues with the team. He found a good formation, he kept the same players in the squad and in the team so they got to know each others attributes. this created a team atmosphere and it meant England worked as a unit, especially coming forward. A demonstration of this is the Gascoine goal against scotland, Anderton knew exactly who was making the diagonal run and where to, it then only took a second of sheer brilliance to lob Hendry and smash it into the net.
Sven and his men are very talented, but his managing skills are straight out of Serie A. And im afraid do not work with the way english football works.
Which is why i wanted Bobby Robson to manage England, oh well.
<strong>Sven and his men are very talented, but his managing skills are straight out of Serie A. And im afraid do not work with the way english football works.</strong><hr></blockquote>And which is why England have won so many games under Sven, some against "formidable" opponents (Germany, Argentina to name two), and which is why they have gone so far, farther than God knows when, in this world cup...
In the immortal words o' Sir Björn MacMinge o' Norway....
"Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana!!! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher?!? Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!"
<strong>In the immortal words o' Sir Björn MacMinge o' Norway....
"Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana!!! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher?!? Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!"
It crosses my mind that England went to the World Cup in Japan and Korea (the FIFA world cup of Association Football, or 'soccer' if you will)
and, heavens above, unless my brain's absolutely full of cucky, Scotland didn't!
How can this be? Well, I'll tell you.
Scotland, after playing all their qualification matches, didn't garner enough qualification points in the qualification table of qualifiers. So they didn't go because they didn't qualify; it was qualification that let them down.
Which is why they didn't go. England, who were just knocked out by four-times-winners Brasil, er, did.
Unlike, say, Scotland, who didn't qualify.
"Just my two cents' worth", as the Americans say! I hope this clears things up a bit!
<strong>And which is why England have won so many games under Sven, some against "formidable" opponents (Germany, Argentina to name two), and which is why they have gone so far, farther than God knows when, in this world cup...
- T.I.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are not looking at all the facts here.
England won, yes.
But they have played really really badly in the qualifiers and in the world cup finals.
Its not a surprise they beat the teams they have done, look at the players they have. Infact they have one of the most talented teams in the world, and this is all without players like Joe Cole, Gerrard, Mcmanamn.
Infact it is no surprise England beat teams like Germany, Germany are poor, very very poor, they have the worst team of theirs in a good 30years. Whereas England have one of their best.
All Englands performances have been down to moments of individual talent (Beckhams greece goal, Owens Germany Hat trick.) , they have had nothing to do with good management. And it is this individual talent which has pulled them through this world cup, this is the talent which gives results, results which help but not ones which make you a world cup winner. And it is the manager who needs to make them play as a finely tuned unit, Robson did this and venables did this because of their management style. Sven doesnt have this type of management, he does not know about it.
If you will notice, the Argentina victory was the only game so far under sven where they have played as a unit. the ball could be kept for most of the game, it could be passed around the midfield with confidence, and it could be threaded through to Owen.
Unlike the other performances where one England defender has played a long ball over the top finding Owen, who slots it into the net. This being done once or twice a match, most of the time not working because it is a very poor tactic caused by the lack of a "team".
Im not discrediting Englands record, im discrediting their perfromance in consideration with their talent. Which is down to management.
If England had played with a more suitable manager they would have played better as a team. And as a team i would go as far to say as they would be the best in the world.
This is their best performance since 1990. Where they reached the semis under Bobby Robson, remember Gazzas tears?
They (many European teams) are very arrogant. They always think they are winners and others are losers. Now they deserve to lose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apparently he of the ill-advised pony-tail was completely <a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11972309&method=full&siteid=5014 3" target="_blank">inconsolable</a> after the final whistle, breaking down in tears during a press conference and sobbing all the way through the manager's pep talk after the match. No doubt Groverat will say this makes him a limey wuss, but I don't know. At least it shows there was some genuine commitment there. It's just a shame the rest of the team couldn't show that kind of passion on the pitch instead of crashing out limply after vanquishing Argentina and dynamiting Denmark (if I can borrow a *cheesy* phrase from the sports pages...)
[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damn right he cried his eyes out. When you drop clangers like that you should either be in goal for South Africa or Saudi Arabia but not England.
I´ve more time for the tears of the England fans since they can´t help it that their keeper is a nitwit.
And guys with ponytails are either in advertising or limey wusses and we all no he´s not in advertising! He cries too!
Scotland is much as it ever was, thankyou for asking. Bold, noble and gracious in victory, and gallant in (the occasional) defeat.
It is true that this proud wee nation has had its ups and doons on the field o' battle and I hae made allusion tae the disasterous Argentina World Cup o' 1978 on the odd occasion (I remember it all too weel), but after years o' losing we have learned tae smile in the face o' ignominy, party on the doorstep o' disaster and pee in the ear o' calamity. Onyway, oor time will surely come again and by the time o' the next World Cup we will be certainly be on the march wi' Ally's Army once mare; gubbing all comers by at least 7 nil and heaping soccertastic humilation upon fitba's erstwhile finest nations. Mark my words!
I just wish the England vs Scotland game would reappear on a regular basis so we could help oorsel's tae those (New) Wembley goalposts again.
Thank-you for taking the time to reply; I'm pleased to hear of the bouyant state of your nation and I wish you all the very best in both Euro 2004 and Deutschland 2008.
But the 'fitba' is on right now so forgive me the brevity of my post.
Comments
<strong>
TI i am impressed by your level of knowledge in Football
- T.I.
<strong>Part of my job, you see
- T.I.</strong><hr></blockquote>
:eek: TI you are omniwhere !
<strong>
I think that's it. The England team had the talent but not the attitude, that killer instinct you need to get to the very top. Maybe that has got a lot to do with excessive celebrity and stratospheric salaries. Brazil just cared that vital bit more about winning.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Its not neccesarily the salaries as much as its Englands manager.
Dont get me wrong, i rate Sven. But his style of managing doesnt work for English football.
English football depends on making a team, where each player knows each other and they all work together. Its a very similar mentality Germany used to have.
Svens' Managing skills are based on tactics, strategies and logically thought out planning. This, although effective in Italy and on the continent, is not the way English football works.
The best demonstration of this was in Euro 96, under Terry Venables, the England team were a Formidable force. He did not manage England by finding technical issues with the team. He found a good formation, he kept the same players in the squad and in the team so they got to know each others attributes. this created a team atmosphere and it meant England worked as a unit, especially coming forward. A demonstration of this is the Gascoine goal against scotland, Anderton knew exactly who was making the diagonal run and where to, it then only took a second of sheer brilliance to lob Hendry and smash it into the net.
Sven and his men are very talented, but his managing skills are straight out of Serie A. And im afraid do not work with the way english football works.
Which is why i wanted Bobby Robson to manage England, oh well.
<strong>Sven and his men are very talented, but his managing skills are straight out of Serie A. And im afraid do not work with the way english football works.</strong><hr></blockquote>And which is why England have won so many games under Sven, some against "formidable" opponents (Germany, Argentina to name two), and which is why they have gone so far, farther than God knows when, in this world cup...
- T.I.
<strong> :eek: TI you are omniwhere !
- T.I.
"Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana!!! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher?!? Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!"
<a href="http://www.btinternet.com/~alexc/audio/canyouhearme.ra"; target="_blank">http://www.btinternet.com/~alexc/audio/canyouhearme.ra</a>;
<strong>In the immortal words o' Sir Björn MacMinge o' Norway....
"Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana!!! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher?!? Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!"
<a href="http://www.btinternet.com/~alexc/audio/canyouhearme.ra"; target="_blank">http://www.btinternet.com/~alexc/audio/canyouhearme.ra</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
Hello Sir Mac!
How is Scotland?
It crosses my mind that England went to the World Cup in Japan and Korea (the FIFA world cup of Association Football, or 'soccer' if you will)
and, heavens above, unless my brain's absolutely full of cucky, Scotland didn't!
How can this be? Well, I'll tell you.
Scotland, after playing all their qualification matches, didn't garner enough qualification points in the qualification table of qualifiers. So they didn't go because they didn't qualify; it was qualification that let them down.
Which is why they didn't go. England, who were just knocked out by four-times-winners Brasil, er, did.
Unlike, say, Scotland, who didn't qualify.
"Just my two cents' worth", as the Americans say! I hope this clears things up a bit!
Must dash.
[ 06-25-2002: Message edited by: Hassan i-Sabbah ]</p>
<strong>And which is why England have won so many games under Sven, some against "formidable" opponents (Germany, Argentina to name two), and which is why they have gone so far, farther than God knows when, in this world cup...
- T.I.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are not looking at all the facts here.
England won, yes.
But they have played really really badly in the qualifiers and in the world cup finals.
Its not a surprise they beat the teams they have done, look at the players they have. Infact they have one of the most talented teams in the world, and this is all without players like Joe Cole, Gerrard, Mcmanamn.
Infact it is no surprise England beat teams like Germany, Germany are poor, very very poor, they have the worst team of theirs in a good 30years. Whereas England have one of their best.
All Englands performances have been down to moments of individual talent (Beckhams greece goal, Owens Germany Hat trick.) , they have had nothing to do with good management. And it is this individual talent which has pulled them through this world cup, this is the talent which gives results, results which help but not ones which make you a world cup winner. And it is the manager who needs to make them play as a finely tuned unit, Robson did this and venables did this because of their management style. Sven doesnt have this type of management, he does not know about it.
If you will notice, the Argentina victory was the only game so far under sven where they have played as a unit. the ball could be kept for most of the game, it could be passed around the midfield with confidence, and it could be threaded through to Owen.
Unlike the other performances where one England defender has played a long ball over the top finding Owen, who slots it into the net. This being done once or twice a match, most of the time not working because it is a very poor tactic caused by the lack of a "team".
Im not discrediting Englands record, im discrediting their perfromance in consideration with their talent. Which is down to management.
If England had played with a more suitable manager they would have played better as a team. And as a team i would go as far to say as they would be the best in the world.
This is their best performance since 1990. Where they reached the semis under Bobby Robson, remember Gazzas tears?
<strong>...remember Gazzas tears?
Also, I have now lost interest in the cup. Unless Turkey wins today, that is
- T.I.
Copacabannockburn by Barry Manilow
His name was David,
He was a goalie,
With a pigtail in his hair, why was he standing way out there ?
He tried to run back but couldn't make it,
The Brazilians watched it from a far, as it sneaked under the bar
You could hear the crowd roar, Rivaldo's lying on the floor
The lions whimpered out the door,
Oh baby, who could ask for more...
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
Its great to watch Rivaldo turn,
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
The man with the Moustache should stick to making the adverts,
At the Copa - They fell to bits.
His name was Rio, He was a diamond,
He was running round in rings, he saw Rivaldo level things,
And when he finished, He called him over
But Rio went to slow, Rivaldo slammed it in the goal,
And then Brooking had a spew, Motson bit his mike in two,
Then Ronaldhino, he got a red card, but with Heskey picked by Sven
It looked like ten versus ten....
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
Its great to watch Rivaldo turn,
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
With heskey near the ball, how did they score a goal at all ?,
At the Copa - We laughed and laughed.
His Name was Bobby, He was the captain,
But that was 30 years ago, thats when they used to have a show,
Now its a party, but not for Beckham,
Still in the dress he used to wear, faded feathers in his hair,
He slumps down on the pitch refined, and then cries himself half blind,
He lost his cup, and lost his glory,
But up in Scotland thats not the story....
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
Its great to watch Rivaldo turn,
At the Copa, oh, Copa-ca-bann-ock-burn,
Three little kittys on the chest, Now we all know whos the best,
At the Copa....we...said...good-byeeeeeeee!!.
<strong>
They (many European teams) are very arrogant. They always think they are winners and others are losers. Now they deserve to lose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Shut up....loser....
<strong>Virtually every British newspaper today has a picture of England goalie David Seaman in tears after the
game. Want to see one? Oh <a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002280891,00.html"; target="_blank">go on</a> then, you masochistic so-and-sos...
Apparently he of the ill-advised pony-tail was completely <a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11972309&method=full&siteid=5014 3" target="_blank">inconsolable</a> after the final whistle, breaking down in tears during a press conference and sobbing all the way through the manager's pep talk after the match. No doubt Groverat will say this makes him a limey wuss, but I don't know. At least it shows there was some genuine commitment there. It's just a shame the rest of the team couldn't show that kind of passion on the pitch instead of crashing out limply after vanquishing Argentina and dynamiting Denmark (if I can borrow a *cheesy* phrase from the sports pages...)
[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damn right he cried his eyes out. When you drop clangers like that you should either be in goal for South Africa or Saudi Arabia but not England.
I´ve more time for the tears of the England fans since they can´t help it that their keeper is a nitwit.
And guys with ponytails are either in advertising or limey wusses and we all no he´s not in advertising! He cries too!
Scotland is much as it ever was, thankyou for asking. Bold, noble and gracious in victory, and gallant in (the occasional) defeat.
It is true that this proud wee nation has had its ups and doons on the field o' battle and I hae made allusion tae the disasterous Argentina World Cup o' 1978 on the odd occasion (I remember it all too weel), but after years o' losing we have learned tae smile in the face o' ignominy, party on the doorstep o' disaster and pee in the ear o' calamity. Onyway, oor time will surely come again and by the time o' the next World Cup we will be certainly be on the march wi' Ally's Army once mare; gubbing all comers by at least 7 nil and heaping soccertastic humilation upon fitba's erstwhile finest nations. Mark my words!
I just wish the England vs Scotland game would reappear on a regular basis so we could help oorsel's tae those (New) Wembley goalposts again.
Thank-you for taking the time to reply; I'm pleased to hear of the bouyant state of your nation and I wish you all the very best in both Euro 2004 and Deutschland 2008.
But the 'fitba' is on right now so forgive me the brevity of my post.
Very best regards,
Hassan i Sabbah
The Old Man of the Mountain
Nah, I can understand that.
Well, he's a limey wuss because he's an English soccer player, but the crying bit is fully understandeable.