They already use Linux and Solaris. Mac OS X is just not up to the task (and I'm not joking here). Real servers need way better I/O than what Mac OS X has. It's kernel is too slow and its file system is ancient.
Granted about the kernel, but what file system do linux and solaris use that is that much more advanced, is it the ill fated (on the mac platform) ZFS? Cause I can't believe something from linux like ext3 is that more advanced, but I could be wrong.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Unisys. Did they know about this discontinuation before they entered into the deal with Apple.
Apple: "Hey, we're not so good at the enterprise thing would you guys like to partner with us to service that market segment."
Unisys: "Sure!"
Apple: "Oh, BTW, we're discontinuing our only viable server hardware people in that market would want to buy."
Unisys: "Bloody Hell!"
I can't imagine Apple partnering with HP, Dell or any other manufacturer on server-class hardware. That just seems antithetical to their corporate identity.
Maybe Apple will release an XServe replacement with Light Peak in January.
- Jasen.
The whole point to a systems integrator is that they integrate systems. That means mixing and matching. IBM is successful at that because they recommend the best products for the purpose, rather than just recommend their own. It was one of the major reasons why they sold off their PC line, which was doing well. They even recommend Macs!
Unisys will do the same. Now they will be able to purchase Apple equipment at OEM pricing, and integrate it with other software and hardware, writing their own software in order to accomplish interoperability. OS X now works pretty well with other Servers from other companies, including Linux. I'm assuming that Apple now feels it no longer has to offer this line of equipment, because Unisys, and the other three companies Apple uses for this purpose will have them covered.
It's much easier to move into the secretary pool and upper management offices than into the server room, and I imagine that Apple is aware of this after years of trying in their halfhearted way.
I make my living as a Mac consultant working with small businesses. I know how to work with the Mac OS. I'll have to bring in another consultant to run the server on a different platform which means that I may become redundant.
There is no hardware monitoring in a Mac Mini like an XServe. No hardware monitoring means no notifications via text or email when there is a hardware issue.
The Mini currently uses 2.5" drives which are slower and more prone to failure.
No redundancy of Ethernet or power supplies.
No slot if you want to add a fiber or SATA card.
Minis don't rack mount leaving these awkward boxes in the cabinet that needs a shelf.
The power cord is prone to coming out by accident if you're working around it.
The XServe has locking clips for the power cords.
Towers don't fit in cabinets or racks very well and you can't easily swap a failed drive like an XServe.
No real server relegates Macs to being toys.
Who Gives a **** !
People are not stupid. You buy what suits your needs. If you're under the impression that you need all redundant crap you just listed, then by all means, empty your pockets and buy what makes you feel safe.
Every one else, like for example, people buying their first server, will save thousands of dollars by buying a Mac mini or a Mac pro. Yes the mac pro saves you thousands of dollars as well by comparison to the Xserve currently available. Joke by comparison.
You pay twice as much for less performance, worse power consumption, and 1 U of space. Great. Enjoy.
'xactly. They have tons of cash to address the corporate market seriously for a change, and they shrink away. This move is a CLEAR indicator of Apple's direction, and I think it's a phenomenal mistake that will come back to kill them.
Apple knows what it is doing. Their recent success proves that.
There is MUCH more money in the consumer market. The server market is all about specs. The consumer market is where the magic is, and that is what Apple is best at.
Apple was the bigger of the three, so it's likely that Jobs would have remained CEO, while Schmitt would have become Chairman. Remember the recent article that shows that Google tried to persuade Jobs to become their CEO, and that Google's founders respect Jobs. As for Sun, I don't think that would have been a problem as Apple could have bought their stock with cash.
And Android, what is that? It would never have become a product.
But, the big (unanswerable) question is would we have the iPod, iPhone, iPad CE devices and
the "always-connected" infrastructure (driving big server farms).
Or would multi-touch be relegated to a few thousand, expensive, big-assed tables?
Do you pay attention to the news? Perhaps you missed the news about Unisys? That was just the latest.
No need to be rude. Thanks for the info on Unisys. I'll google it.
I rarely follow enterprise news in general.
Edit: So I looked it up. Yeah - Apple is trying to get big customers to adopt the iPhone. While that is certainly "enterprise" stuff, it is nevertheless a push for adoption of Apple's consumer tech, albeit using existing enterprise infrastructure.
I'm not sure how discontinuing the server has anything to do with iPhones, other than some kind of "big customer" nexus.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Unisys. Did they know about this discontinuation before they entered into the deal with Apple.
Apple: "Hey, we're not so good at the enterprise thing would you guys like to partner with us to service that market segment."
Unisys: "Sure!"
Apple: "Oh, BTW, we're discontinuing our only viable server hardware people in that market would want to buy."
Unisys: "Bloody Hell!"
I can't imagine Apple partnering with HP, Dell or any other manufacturer on server-class hardware. That just seems antithetical to their corporate identity.
Maybe Apple will release an XServe replacement with Light Peak in January.
- Jasen.
They just did, it's called the Mac Pro, you get 30% more performance from the highest end configuration, all solid state drives, uses less power, and is half the price. Mac pro maxes out at $18,000, the Xserve at $37,000. That's twice the price, for less performance....you figure it out....it's not hard.
Has Apple been able to provide adequate service, maintenance, support for those XServes?
Do you do that yourself or contract it out?
I don't know, but I suspect that service, maintenance and support are areas where Apple is unable to compete.
Would it sweeten the deal, if the next time you had to replace or add a new server -- that it ran OS X Server software?
Would it be attractive to you if the server manufacturer, or his agent, assumed some of the responsibility of service. maintenance, repair and replacement?
In other words: Would an Apple Software / Brand X hardware / Brand Y service offer a better, same, or worse solution?
Why?
.
This is also what systems intergators do. They provide support for the solutions they provide. That usually includes hardware and software support. So Apple will have to do little more that training for Unisys personell, and parts.
If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth ? and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago.
Granted about the kernel, but what file system do linux and solaris use that is that much more advanced, is it the ill fated (on the mac platform) ZFS? Cause I can't believe something from linux like ext3 is that more advanced, but I could be wrong.
ZFS is a truly killer multiuser nonclustered filesystem. I won't delve into detail, but it has many, many features that put it far ahead of HFS+, NTFS, ext3, etc in terms of flexibility and robustness. Shame Apple didn't adopt it, it's ported to FreeBSD, and should have been a shoe-in to OS X. Political.
You're kidding right??? You have never seen the actual server farm that iTunes runs one have you? I wish the trolls would stay out of this and only ACSA, ACTC, people that actually work with these could comment here...
What does Mac OS X certification have to do with what servers Apple uses. IF you want to find out what actual server OS sits behind a service use something like
People are not stupid. You buy what suits your needs. If you're under the impression that you need all redundant crap you just listed, then by all means, empty your pockets and buy what makes you feel safe.
Every one else, like for example, people buying their first server, will save thousands of dollars by buying a Mac mini or a Mac pro. Yes the mac pro saves you thousands of dollars as well by comparison to the Xserve currently available. Joke by comparison.
You pay twice as much for less performance, worse power consumption, and 1 U of space. Great. Enjoy.
Please try not to talk anymore. It's pretty obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. This is what happens when iPad users try to carry on an intelligent conversation with professionals.
"Redundant Crap".. LOL.. Gee, you sure know a lot about servers don't you Big Boy???? Have a nice life "enjoying your photographs and listening to music on your Magical device".. It appears that is all your skill set consists of...
No need to be rude. Thanks for the info on Unisys. I'll google it.
I rarely follow enterprise news in general.
Edit: So I looked it up. Yeah - Apple is trying to get big customers to adopt the iPhone. While that is certainly "enterprise" stuff, it is nevertheless a push for adoption of Apple's consumer tech, albeit using existing enterprise infrastructure.
I'm not sure how discontinuing the server has anything to do with iPhones, other than some kind of "big customer" nexus.
That wasn't being rude. If people comment on things, they should first find out what's happening. Since this was all over the news about Apple, it would have been easy to find.
Although it's unlikely to do much good... Those of you that feel strongly enough about Apple's decision should post on this Apple Forum thread. Personally i'm gutted...
Comments
They already use Linux and Solaris. Mac OS X is just not up to the task (and I'm not joking here). Real servers need way better I/O than what Mac OS X has. It's kernel is too slow and its file system is ancient.
Granted about the kernel, but what file system do linux and solaris use that is that much more advanced, is it the ill fated (on the mac platform) ZFS? Cause I can't believe something from linux like ext3 is that more advanced, but I could be wrong.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Unisys. Did they know about this discontinuation before they entered into the deal with Apple.
Apple: "Hey, we're not so good at the enterprise thing would you guys like to partner with us to service that market segment."
Unisys: "Sure!"
Apple: "Oh, BTW, we're discontinuing our only viable server hardware people in that market would want to buy."
Unisys: "Bloody Hell!"
I can't imagine Apple partnering with HP, Dell or any other manufacturer on server-class hardware. That just seems antithetical to their corporate identity.
Maybe Apple will release an XServe replacement with Light Peak in January.
- Jasen.
The whole point to a systems integrator is that they integrate systems. That means mixing and matching. IBM is successful at that because they recommend the best products for the purpose, rather than just recommend their own. It was one of the major reasons why they sold off their PC line, which was doing well. They even recommend Macs!
Unisys will do the same. Now they will be able to purchase Apple equipment at OEM pricing, and integrate it with other software and hardware, writing their own software in order to accomplish interoperability. OS X now works pretty well with other Servers from other companies, including Linux. I'm assuming that Apple now feels it no longer has to offer this line of equipment, because Unisys, and the other three companies Apple uses for this purpose will have them covered.
It's much easier to move into the secretary pool and upper management offices than into the server room, and I imagine that Apple is aware of this after years of trying in their halfhearted way.
.
What rill they use in Apple server farms?
.
Windows 2008 boxes...
I make my living as a Mac consultant working with small businesses. I know how to work with the Mac OS. I'll have to bring in another consultant to run the server on a different platform which means that I may become redundant.
There is no hardware monitoring in a Mac Mini like an XServe. No hardware monitoring means no notifications via text or email when there is a hardware issue.
The Mini currently uses 2.5" drives which are slower and more prone to failure.
No redundancy of Ethernet or power supplies.
No slot if you want to add a fiber or SATA card.
Minis don't rack mount leaving these awkward boxes in the cabinet that needs a shelf.
The power cord is prone to coming out by accident if you're working around it.
The XServe has locking clips for the power cords.
Towers don't fit in cabinets or racks very well and you can't easily swap a failed drive like an XServe.
No real server relegates Macs to being toys.
Who Gives a **** !
People are not stupid. You buy what suits your needs. If you're under the impression that you need all redundant crap you just listed, then by all means, empty your pockets and buy what makes you feel safe.
Every one else, like for example, people buying their first server, will save thousands of dollars by buying a Mac mini or a Mac pro. Yes the mac pro saves you thousands of dollars as well by comparison to the Xserve currently available. Joke by comparison.
You pay twice as much for less performance, worse power consumption, and 1 U of space. Great. Enjoy.
'xactly. They have tons of cash to address the corporate market seriously for a change, and they shrink away. This move is a CLEAR indicator of Apple's direction, and I think it's a phenomenal mistake that will come back to kill them.
Apple knows what it is doing. Their recent success proves that.
There is MUCH more money in the consumer market. The server market is all about specs. The consumer market is where the magic is, and that is what Apple is best at.
Apple was the bigger of the three, so it's likely that Jobs would have remained CEO, while Schmitt would have become Chairman. Remember the recent article that shows that Google tried to persuade Jobs to become their CEO, and that Google's founders respect Jobs. As for Sun, I don't think that would have been a problem as Apple could have bought their stock with cash.
And Android, what is that? It would never have become a product.
But, the big (unanswerable) question is would we have the iPod, iPhone, iPad CE devices and
the "always-connected" infrastructure (driving big server farms).
Or would multi-touch be relegated to a few thousand, expensive, big-assed tables?
.
What the heck are talking about? You just went on just to hear yourself rant some ant-apple hate.
Fail +10.
Apple helped pioneer the f****** pc industry little boy. They make their own world class OS and they design their own godd**** hardware.
You better thank god Apple is pulling out and not really putting their full force behind servers.Why? Don't you know? Your job security!!!!
Toy maker? Ha ha ha ha!
Wow. Fanboy blinders on much?
Perhaps you missed the point that Apple slowing but surely is TURNING THEIR BACK on the PC industry they helped found. Idiot.
Do you pay attention to the news? Perhaps you missed the news about Unisys? That was just the latest.
No need to be rude. Thanks for the info on Unisys. I'll google it.
I rarely follow enterprise news in general.
Edit: So I looked it up. Yeah - Apple is trying to get big customers to adopt the iPhone. While that is certainly "enterprise" stuff, it is nevertheless a push for adoption of Apple's consumer tech, albeit using existing enterprise infrastructure.
I'm not sure how discontinuing the server has anything to do with iPhones, other than some kind of "big customer" nexus.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Unisys. Did they know about this discontinuation before they entered into the deal with Apple.
Apple: "Hey, we're not so good at the enterprise thing would you guys like to partner with us to service that market segment."
Unisys: "Sure!"
Apple: "Oh, BTW, we're discontinuing our only viable server hardware people in that market would want to buy."
Unisys: "Bloody Hell!"
I can't imagine Apple partnering with HP, Dell or any other manufacturer on server-class hardware. That just seems antithetical to their corporate identity.
Maybe Apple will release an XServe replacement with Light Peak in January.
- Jasen.
They just did, it's called the Mac Pro, you get 30% more performance from the highest end configuration, all solid state drives, uses less power, and is half the price. Mac pro maxes out at $18,000, the Xserve at $37,000. That's twice the price, for less performance....you figure it out....it's not hard.
Rack mount waaaa rack mount waaa.
Has Apple been able to provide adequate service, maintenance, support for those XServes?
Do you do that yourself or contract it out?
I don't know, but I suspect that service, maintenance and support are areas where Apple is unable to compete.
Would it sweeten the deal, if the next time you had to replace or add a new server -- that it ran OS X Server software?
Would it be attractive to you if the server manufacturer, or his agent, assumed some of the responsibility of service. maintenance, repair and replacement?
In other words: Would an Apple Software / Brand X hardware / Brand Y service offer a better, same, or worse solution?
Why?
.
This is also what systems intergators do. They provide support for the solutions they provide. That usually includes hardware and software support. So Apple will have to do little more that training for Unisys personell, and parts.
No need to be rude. Thanks for the info on Unisys. I'll google it.
I rarely follow enterprise news in general.
Yet you comment on it? He was certainly NOT being rude in the slightest.
Granted about the kernel, but what file system do linux and solaris use that is that much more advanced, is it the ill fated (on the mac platform) ZFS? Cause I can't believe something from linux like ext3 is that more advanced, but I could be wrong.
ZFS is a truly killer multiuser nonclustered filesystem. I won't delve into detail, but it has many, many features that put it far ahead of HFS+, NTFS, ext3, etc in terms of flexibility and robustness. Shame Apple didn't adopt it, it's ported to FreeBSD, and should have been a shoe-in to OS X. Political.
But, the big (unanswerable) question is would we have the iPod, iPhone, iPad CE devices and
the "always-connected" infrastructure (driving big server farms).
Or would multi-touch be relegated to a few thousand, expensive, big-assed tables?
.
The talk of this began in the 2006 time frame, so I don't see any of that as being a problem.
You're kidding right??? You have never seen the actual server farm that iTunes runs one have you?
What does Mac OS X certification have to do with what servers Apple uses. IF you want to find out what actual server OS sits behind a service use something like
http://www.nmap.org/
and find out. I don't have to visit the server farm physically to see what server OS is being used.
Yet you comment on it? He was certainly NOT being rude in the slightest.
If so, I apologize for being thin-skinned.
Not true. They've had fiber boards for as long as I can remember.
it's a add-on option... no different from the Mac Pro.
Who Gives a **** !
People are not stupid. You buy what suits your needs. If you're under the impression that you need all redundant crap you just listed, then by all means, empty your pockets and buy what makes you feel safe.
Every one else, like for example, people buying their first server, will save thousands of dollars by buying a Mac mini or a Mac pro. Yes the mac pro saves you thousands of dollars as well by comparison to the Xserve currently available. Joke by comparison.
You pay twice as much for less performance, worse power consumption, and 1 U of space. Great. Enjoy.
Please try not to talk anymore. It's pretty obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. This is what happens when iPad users try to carry on an intelligent conversation with professionals.
"Redundant Crap".. LOL.. Gee, you sure know a lot about servers don't you Big Boy???? Have a nice life "enjoying your photographs and listening to music on your Magical device".. It appears that is all your skill set consists of...
No need to be rude. Thanks for the info on Unisys. I'll google it.
I rarely follow enterprise news in general.
Edit: So I looked it up. Yeah - Apple is trying to get big customers to adopt the iPhone. While that is certainly "enterprise" stuff, it is nevertheless a push for adoption of Apple's consumer tech, albeit using existing enterprise infrastructure.
I'm not sure how discontinuing the server has anything to do with iPhones, other than some kind of "big customer" nexus.
That wasn't being rude. If people comment on things, they should first find out what's happening. Since this was all over the news about Apple, it would have been easy to find.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....art=0&start=15
Beatle