Americans - great folks, but the foreign policy...
Hi All,
I think Americans as I have met them in the US and outside are really nice people, open to talk to strangers and pretty easy going.
That said, I think the foreign policy of the US is what leaves Europeans (me included) somewhat sceptical. Why all this isolation from the world? Kyoto, ICC, Anti-mines, NMD, etc.
I wish that that man in the White House would be wiser and try to make positive changes rather than the old "kill'em all" approach.
It isn't the most difficult thing in the world, really. Man has been to the Moon, how hard can it be to end poverty in the World?
oh and BTW, I am concerned with civil rights in the US. This war on terrorism bites its own tail, and has the potential to undermine civil rights , like the right to have accusations tried before a court. Don't say I didn't mention it....
So end of it; I like the US, Americans and America. Don't like that dude in the White House, and the no tolerance attitude
Peace from Europe
I think Americans as I have met them in the US and outside are really nice people, open to talk to strangers and pretty easy going.
That said, I think the foreign policy of the US is what leaves Europeans (me included) somewhat sceptical. Why all this isolation from the world? Kyoto, ICC, Anti-mines, NMD, etc.
I wish that that man in the White House would be wiser and try to make positive changes rather than the old "kill'em all" approach.
It isn't the most difficult thing in the world, really. Man has been to the Moon, how hard can it be to end poverty in the World?
oh and BTW, I am concerned with civil rights in the US. This war on terrorism bites its own tail, and has the potential to undermine civil rights , like the right to have accusations tried before a court. Don't say I didn't mention it....
So end of it; I like the US, Americans and America. Don't like that dude in the White House, and the no tolerance attitude
Peace from Europe
Comments
Basically, there is only so much that one country can do at a time. I realize that the world looks to the United States to lead, but we can't do everything all at once.
[quote]So end of it; I like the US, Americans and America. <hr></blockquote>
Good, thanks.
[quote]Don't like that dude in the White House<hr></blockquote>
Not everyone in America loves him either.
<strong>Well we don't have to 'love' the President but he is our president. I certainly don't love him but I respect him (so far).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you do "love" him you chocolate chimmney sweep of a batty boy.
Jamie
<strong>
Basically, there is only so much that one country can do at a time. I realize that the world looks to the United States to lead, but we can't do everything all at once.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
BAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
<strong>What is going on here? This has to be asked. Is it anti-American day in Europe or something? What's with the influx of all of these anti-American topics this morning? I realize that you might be trying to be sincere, but with all of these weird topics this morning, I can't be sure. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi Fran441, this is not America bashing, - it's a European tradition of having a critical dialog. As long as we talk and exchange views, we are ok.
So when faced with black and white statements like "axis of Evil" etc. , it is quite natural to comment it by disagreeing. I for sure, don't like the narrow minded approach of the current administration (US) - it makes the world less safe IMO.
So I like you all, but I like to have dialog with you too, plz don't isolate the US.
<strong>
Hi Fran441, this is not America bashing, - it's a European tradition of having a critical dialog. As long as we talk and exchange views, we are ok.
So when faced with black and white statements like "axis of Evil" etc. , it is quite natural to comment it by disagreeing. I for sure, don't like the narrow minded approach of the current administration (US) - it makes the world less safe IMO.
So I like you all, but I like to have dialog with you too, plz don't isolate the US.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK. Let's talk about Denmark. I am not happy with Denmark leading a near facist right wing policy towards immigrants. With Rasmussen in power who the Danish elected in wide spread support is the most right wing country in europe in that regard. Denmark beats out France and Le Pen or Holland and Fortyn for that matter. So, I'd like to have a dialog on where some Europeans get off on calling US with little tolerance or civil liberties where US accepts many millions of people from around the globe. Denmarks adds some color to its whitebread society, likes to thinks its liberal but acts just the opposite. I like the Danes but there is a strong odious and pious hyprocrital benovelnce where thin blooded Euro weenies attack US. Thanks, but we don't need another lecture.
The bottom line: Europe feels powerless because it neither has the will, courage, strength, credibility and/or resolve to solve many problems even within its own doorstep let alone elsewhere. Instead, europeans critise (not all many do) everything US does. Europe (EU) is still very tribal, squabbles and does nothing but happily sit on the sidelines and critise while you have the total security of the US to solve problems when it gets in a crisis (e.g. balkans , two world wars). This is NOT the United States of Amnesia. We Americans do remember.
I wish you would list in your dialog what you do like about American policy.
And to finish it off, while I do not agree with all the US policy (who does?), you cannot really seperate Americans from American policy. There is a correlation as we vote in politicians. European have overly critised US culture (yes, we do have one), politics, etc. ever since i can remember.
What Europeans here on this list have the courage to say something *good* for a change. After being here and seeing hordes of Europeans stand up and cheer when Sept 11th happened in pubs, it made me sick. To add insult to injury, many European press and people (not so the governments) said US deserved it. Remember, we are watching Europe as well and we will remember........
(NOTE: I know this may sound harsh against yodamaster but my response is more towards the general European attitude and the sterotypes it sometimes subscribes to rather than anything personal towards yodamaster who asked a seemily geniune question)
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: eat@me ]</p>
What really gets me about all you Idiots constantly slagging each other off is the fact that the world has much bigger problems then bad US or EU issues...
After all, the difference in the two systems is minimal and compared to places like China or Iran etc. EU and US are on the same wavelength.
Instead of wasting your time taking the piss off each other could you consider pointing some of your eloquent words and energy at the world's most repressive regimes like China, Iran, Burma, Malaysia etc.....
or is it that you don't consider these countries as competitors like you do the US ?
If this is all about Europeans pissed off at American hegemony then that's truly pathetic - the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen and wasting words jumping at it these days when its fighting a war that could mean the survival or death of thousands ( frighteningly maybe even more) of lives.. just seems to stink !.... in my opinion....
If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
I'm fed up with idiotic English and other European twats wasting all their hard earned intelligence on explaining the world and his dog how f***** up the US of A really is, and how the world would be better if bush were to finally come out and confess to being gay or something....
I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
<strong>I agree with eatme
After all, the difference in the two systems is minimal and compared to places like China or Iran etc. EU and US are on the same wavelength.
Instead of wasting your time taking the piss off each other could you consider pointing some of your eloquent words and energy at the world's most repressive regimes like China, Iran, Burma, Malaysia etc.....
or is it that you don't consider these countries as competitors like you do the US ?
If this is all about Europeans pissed off at American hegemony then that's truly pathetic - the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen and wasting words jumping at it these days when its fighting a war that could mean the survival or death of thousands ( frighteningly maybe even more) of lives.. just seems to stink !.... in my opinion....
I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well put, Rashumon. It seems like Europeans would rather see the US go down while turning a blind eye to the China's oligarchy or other repressive regimes. Unfortuneatly, some Europeans beat the same irrepresible drum over and over. Its gets real tiring. Europeans: take a look at yourselves and ask "Who else would you rather have as a superpower?". You might just get China (or someone else like Iran) for that matter ....
I leave on this note. As Chruchill himself once said "You can always rely on America to do the right thing, once it has exhausted the alternatives"
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: eat@me ]</p>
Sometimes I wonder if the americans of WWI and WWII should see the ungratefulness of the continentals,would they would be so willing to risk their lives for them.
Always the voice of reason on these boards..
Just one thing. You might want to consult a dictionary once in a while. ;] Re-read your post. Especially this part: "the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen". Otherwise, I'm with you on this 100%. Sometimes I really wish these whinoz would have gotten a taste of what it?s like to live under the boot of uncle Joseph. They wouldn't be squawking as much about the U.S. I would bet.
mika.
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
That is specially sad considering that this M.O. is not only unnecessary for the greater good of America, the world's sole superpower and global policeman, but is so often responsible for aggravating unrest in other parts of the world, often to furnish the material wealth of the few, whilst simultaneously angering the maniacs and fundamentalists who will look to anything as a means of "justifying" their irrational wrath. I so hope that someone learned something from 9-11. If not, there WILL be repeats, and possibly far nastier. It seems that there are people responsible for U.S. foreign policy who don't care a flying damn about ordinary Americans, in favor of cozying up to global elites.
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
<strong>American Foreign Policy is synonymous with duplicity and arbitrary privilege.
That is specially sad considering that this M.O. is not only unnecessary for the greater good of America, the world's sole superpower and global policeman, but is so often responsible for aggravating unrest in other parts of the world, often to furnish the material wealth of the few, whilst simultaneously angering the maniacs and fundamentalists who will look to anything as a means of "justifying" their irrational wrath. I so hope that someone learned something from 9-11. If not, there WILL be repeats, and possibly far nastier. It seems that there are people responsible for U.S. foreign policy who don't care a flying damn about ordinary Americans, in favor of cozying up to global elites.
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
So whom should we hold up as an example to follow, Sam? Europe? C'mon, don't keep this secret all to yourself. Share with us.
mika.
<strong>What really gets me about all you Idiots constantly slagging each other off is the fact that the world has much bigger problems then bad US or EU issues...
If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a toss about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You've put your finger on something there. It certainly is the responsibility of good folks like us to try and pressure our governments into 'doing something' about Tibet and Africa and this would definitely be a more productive endeavour then all this dissing and counter-dissing.
But then again, with regard to Africa, it could be argued that America bears a great deal of responsibility for the condition of many African states in the first place, and I feel sort of entitled to point that out, particularly in a thread about American foreign policy.
So I will. It was the CIA, after all, who assassinated Patrice Lumumba, an intelligent and progressive politician of great integrity who had the misfortune to be a socialist, kickstarting the mess in the Congo. The CIA assassinated Kwame Nkrumah, a Mandela-strength visionary and the president of Ghana, presumably because someone didn't like his too-concrete ideas about a pan-African union (and this is a terrible pity for all African people.) America sponsored rebels fighting democratically elected (socialist) governments in Angola and Mozambique, supporting some heavyweight scumbags in countries both full of mines now and with the most mashed-up infrastructure you can imagine, and the CIA tipped off the South African security forces about the whereabouts of Nelson Mandela and Oliver Tambo.
And then there's Somalia, of course.
Look, no-one's perfect, foreign policy changes and so do governments and all that, but hey: this gets my goat. No-one's doing enough to help Africa, not America, not Europe, but it seems to me that with isolationist-minded Dubya in charge, America's the least likely to wade in right now, and it could be argued it bears responsibility to the continent.
Dunno.
Americans do not follow anyone! Heavens, you should know that by now! We lead, and rest of the world follows us. Period. If we led the world in a little more egalitarian manner, i.e. less duplicity and arbitrary privilege oriented, we would garner less enemies and more friends as we did so. Trouble is, our economy is now so military based, thriving on conflict, (overseas of course, we don't want it within our borders!)...that now over 50% of the US economy is based directly and indirectly on matters military; we spend $500 billion annually on attack/defense. That is an incredible 33% of the entire US annual budget of some $1.5 trillion.
Considering that the USA is separated from all of the world's troublespots by thousands of miles and 2 huge oceans, and also our nearest neighbor, Canada is a close ally, and Mexico to the South is 100% dependent on America for its economic survival, we don't have any real enemies (yet) in the Western hemisphere, although Colombia maybe become a real problem courtesy of our insane war "against" drugs. So currently, without significant enemies on the Americas landmass, we have to do our absolute damnedest to exacerbate, stir and aggravate things elsewhere, specially Africa, Asia and the Middle East, or all that military expenditure looks mighty redundant. When we cease to adopt that insane and shortsighted notion that "the enemy of our enemy is our friend", then maybe things throughout the rest of the world may calm down. But that is the very last thing that the all- powerful military establishments in the USA ever want.
<strong>Rush,
Always the voice of reason on these boards..
Just one thing. You might want to consult a dictionary once in a while. ;] Re-read your post. Especially this part: "the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen".
mika.
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL I meant benevolent
But I'm sure u got my meaning ...
<strong>
But then again, with regard to Africa, it could be argued that America bears a great deal of responsibility for the condition of many African states in the first place, and I feel sort of entitled to point that out, particularly in a thread about American foreign policy.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If anyone is truly responsible for the mess that is today's Africa surly the responsibility must fall on the shoulders of the ex-colonial powers who raped Africa dry for most of this century and the 19th century .. Britain, France, Belgium and other European states. American involvement in Africa is peanuts compared to the ongoing mess that European governments and corporations are stirring up in Africa today !