Apple targeting Dec. 13 launch of Mac App Store - rumor

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  • Reply 41 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    The cloud, for the average consumer, is a smokescreen. Personal clouds are what people should be clamoring for.



    I have both. I have a flawless experience and access to my entire iTunes library remotely via my HP Media Smart Windows Home Server, and I also use BackBlaze to backup all my key data.



    You can never have too many copies of data



    What I wish someone would do, is develop a Windows Home Server like device that I can point at a friend or relatives companion box for my own off-site cloud backup (and they can do vice-versa).



    Heck, if I had multiple family members and/or friends why couldn't I pick a few of them and we could all mesh and protect our data together? Then I don't need a monthly fee to BackBlaze.



    Then again at $50 a year, I'm not exactly begrudging BackBlaze. It's an incredible value.
  • Reply 42 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    These are all issues but there is one item that is even bigger, that is security. Nothing on the net is beyound being hacked so it is no place for an individual nor a business to place sensitive data.



    Meh. First, consumer level cloud backup solutions such as BackBlaze or Mozy have the option for you to create your own encryption key - all data that goes to "the cloud" is useless without the key that you create and keep locally.



    Secondly, most people don't have the first clue about security and are more likely to have their machine owned by malware than a responsible service provider that has dedicated security resources and expertise that they can afford because they are leveraging their experience across all of their customers.



    All in all I think many "security" issues around the cloud or outsourcing in general are severely overblown. If you aren't just speaking hyperbole and really believe that it's inevitable for your machine or data to be hacked, you need to go Battlestar Galactica and keep your data on computers that are not connected to the internet. And BTW I'm not being totally facetious about that, there are plenty of systems such as the SCADA systems that control our utilities that have absolutely no business being interconnected with the Internet. Same thing for ATM and financial networks. Things that should be a no-brainer... well, you would think so anyway....
  • Reply 43 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Keep dreaming.



    It won't be a dream for long.



    If you think that the iOS and Mac OSX cross pollination won't continue the accelerated growth of both platforms your the one that is dreaming.
  • Reply 44 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    While each Time Machine backup is independent or other backed machines, they do already have that technology within each TM sparse bundle.



    Yes, but inside of each sparse bundle is another copy of Mac OSX as well as any applications and data that might be the same on each Mac.



    The backup on WHS doesn't have this issue. Once the first Windows machine is backed up, any subsequent backups of other Windows computers that have the same OS and applications (such as Office) are just place holders - the data isn't re-duplicated on the WHS.



    That's how I got 10 Windows machines for under 200GB while the equivalent backup of 10 Mac's with Time Machine (sparse bundle or not) would be multiple terabytes.



    Quote:

    Isn?t that being used over HFS+?



    All a sparse bundle is is a virtual disk image. Similar to a .DMG The sparse bundle is still formatted with HFS+



    Quote:

    And what base file system could they use instead?



    NTFS for one. It supports streams, advanced attributes, case insensitivity and ironically longer filenames than HFS+ Indeed, there are some third party implementations for NTFS on Mac OSX that give Mac OSX read/write access to NTFS. If Apple adopted it there is no reason you couldn't boot off of an NTFS formatted partition.



    ZFS - unfortunately the patent issues surrounding ZFS render it a moot point



    ??? - Apple has some smart folks on payroll. Hopefully they do have something cooking away in their labs.



    NTFS and volume shadow copies allow Microsoft to also do much more efficient backups - if I have a 10GB photoshop file and only change a megabyte, with a VSS snapshot I only store the 1MB that changed, not the entire file like with Time Machine.



    I would say HFS+ is the single biggest old technology remaining in Mac OSX and a frustrating limitation. The workstation backup capability in WHS is amazing, and with appliance WHS computers from HP routinely under $400 they are one of the best deals for a small business to backup workstations with.
  • Reply 45 of 58
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    I installed a Windows Home Server at my church and backed up 10 workstations in less than 200GB of data due to the de-duplication capabilities that NTFS and Volume Shadow Copies enable. The equivalent storage to backup 10 mac's via Time Machine would be in the multiple terabyte range



    That's at your church though. How many people have 10 computers in their house? I'm not saying that's not a valuable feature, just that it's more of a SOHO/Business feature than a home one.
  • Reply 46 of 58
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Yes, but inside of each sparse bundle is another copy of Mac OSX as well as any applications and data that might be the same on each Mac.



    The backup on WHS doesn't have this issue. Once the first Windows machine is backed up, any subsequent backups of other Windows computers that have the same OS and applications (such as Office) are just place holders - the data isn't re-duplicated on the WHS.



    That's how I got 10 Windows machines for under 200GB while the equivalent backup of 10 Mac's with Time Machine (sparse bundle or not) would be multiple terabytes.







    All a sparse bundle is is a virtual disk image. Similar to a .DMG The sparse bundle is still formatted with HFS+







    NTFS for one. It supports streams, advanced attributes, case insensitivity and ironically longer filenames than HFS+ Indeed, there are some third party implementations for NTFS on Mac OSX that give Mac OSX read/write access to NTFS. If Apple adopted it there is no reason you couldn't boot off of an NTFS formatted partition.



    ZFS - unfortunately the patent issues surrounding ZFS render it a moot point



    ??? - Apple has some smart folks on payroll. Hopefully they do have something cooking away in their labs.



    NTFS and volume shadow copies allow Microsoft to also do much more efficient backups - if I have a 10GB photoshop file and only change a megabyte, with a VSS snapshot I only store the 1MB that changed, not the entire file like with Time Machine.



    I would say HFS+ is the single biggest old technology remaining in Mac OSX and a frustrating limitation. The workstation backup capability in WHS is amazing, and with appliance WHS computers from HP routinely under $400 they are one of the best deals for a small business to backup workstations with.



    HFS+ is quite good and if you look at the dates NTFS is old here



    P.S They both support 255 char long filenames.
  • Reply 47 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    That's at your church though. How many people have 10 computers in their house? I'm not saying that's not a valuable feature, just that it's more of a SOHO/Business feature than a home one.



    We are talking about a Home Server, not a small business server.



    Here are some questions to ask:

    ? Is 10 PCs the minimum number you?d need to have before a Home Server makes sense for backups and/or a media hub? I say the number can be as low as two machines.

    ? Does Time Capsule, with no redundant drives, make sense for viable backup system for homes with multiple Macs? The Mac itself has the original copy, but that isn?t a RAID, and home computers are storing more and more data that people don?t want to ever lose.

    ? Does having each Mac in the home be it?s own media server make sense, especially when there is no simple and secure remote access to that data? No.

    ? What about using Time Machine drive as a Media Hub? Absolutely not, because you?d have to do manual backups to another drive because it offers no redundancy.

    ? Are satellite computers like the iPad becoming more common, thus lessening the need for everyone in a household to have their own overly powerful PC? Yes.

    ? Could a RAIDed media hub be a way to access data for users from a centralized DB on the LAN, do OTA backups and streaming, and all without having to have a Mac Pro or some other huge desktop tower with multiple drives for redundant backups? Yep.
  • Reply 48 of 58
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    We are talking about a Home Server, not a small business server.



    Here are some questions to ask:

    ? Is 10 PCs the minimum number you?d need to have before a Home Server makes sense for backups and/or a media hub? I say the number can be as low as two machines.

    ? Does Time Capsule, with no redundant drives, make sense for viable backup system for homes with multiple Macs? The Mac itself has the original copy, but that isn?t a RAID, and home computers are storing more and more data that people don?t want to ever lose.

    ? Does having each Mac in the home be it?s own media server make sense, especially when there is no simple and secure remote access to that data? No.

    ? What about using Time Machine drive as a Media Hub? Absolutely not, because you?d have to do manual backups to another drive because it offers no redundancy.

    ? Are satellite computers like the iPad becoming more common, thus lessening the need for everyone in a household to have their own overly powerful PC? Yes.

    ? Could a RAIDed media hub be a way to access data for users from a centralized DB on the LAN, do OTA backups and streaming, and all without having to have a Mac Pro or some other huge desktop tower with multiple drives for redundant backups? Yep.



    Not sure if this helps, but the following guides by Mac Performance Guide makes pretty good backup strategies.
    Simple and Cost-effective Backups for Mac

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-C...iveBackup.html



    Using Time Machine for Data Safet

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-TimeMachine.html



    Introduction to Storage Performance

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-Intro.html



    In addition, colocation is quite feasible and should be a consideration, particularly for small and large business.



    Mac Mini Colocation http://www.tuaw.com/2008/04/05/tuaw-...lo-for-a-spin/



    MacMiniColo will host your Mac Mini server for just $10/month for 6 months http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/31/macmi...t-10-month-fo/
  • Reply 49 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Not sure if this helps, but the following guides by Mac Performance Guide makes pretty good backup strategies.
    Simple and Cost-effective Backups for Mac

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-C...iveBackup.html



    Using Time Machine for Data Safet

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-TimeMachine.html



    Introduction to Storage Performance

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-Intro.html



    In addition, colocation is quite feasible and should be a consideration, particularly for small and large business.



    Mac Mini Colocation http://www.tuaw.com/2008/04/05/tuaw-...lo-for-a-spin/



    MacMiniColo will host your Mac Mini server for just $10/month for 6 months http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/31/macmi...t-10-month-fo/



    Thanks for posting descriptive links. That doesn?t get done nearly enough on forums.



    As for those backups, there are plenty of solutions available, but none that offer RAIDed backups -AND- a home media hub that is accessible from the LAN and WAN. Basically, what Windows Home Server is. It?s pretty much my favourite version of Windows, hands down, and my only complaint with the HP Media Smart is the crappy fan that makes way too much noise for its size.
  • Reply 50 of 58
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Thanks for posting descriptive links. That doesn?t get done nearly enough on forums.



    As for those backups, there are plenty of solutions available, but none that offer RAIDed backups -AND- a home media hub that is accessible from the LAN and WAN. Basically, what Windows Home Server is. It?s pretty much my favourite version of Windows, hands down, and my only complaint with the HP Media Smart is the crappy fan that makes way too much noise for its size.



    You are welcome. It comes from my research upbringing.



    Perhaps pages 8-11 from the Mac Performance Guide's "Introduction to Storage Performance" addresses your concerns. http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-RAID.html



    I am not sure, but these look like a home setup.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:429,r:0,s:187

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:429,r:1,s:187
  • Reply 51 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    You are welcome. It comes from my research upbringing.



    Perhaps pages 8-11 from the Mac Performance Guide's "Introduction to Storage Performance" addresses your concerns. http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-RAID.html



    I am not sure, but these look like a home setup.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:429,r:0,s:187

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:429,r:1,s:187



    LOL Those examples show exactly what I mean. The only RAID option for Macs is for a Mac Pro, already expensive and way more computing power than one needs for a Home Server. The card itself is $700. I have a couple of family members that I maintain systems for and would love to simply have a Drobo priced device that would do seamless backups, be the media hub. Of course, iTunes would need to be smarter, too, so it can interact with this device in a secure yet seemless way for, say, MBAs and iPads where the user has a secure iTunes setup but doesn?t want to(or can?t) store their entire library on the device, so it will stream both over the LAN and WAN.
  • Reply 52 of 58
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    LOL Those examples show exactly what I mean. The only RAID option for Macs is for a Mac Pro, already expensive and way more computing power than one needs for a Home Server. The card itself is $700. I have a couple of family members that I maintain systems for and would love to simply have a Drobo priced device that would do seamless backups, be the media hub. Of course, iTunes would need to be smarter, too, so it can interact with this device in a secure yet seemless way for, say, MBAs and iPads where the user has a secure iTunes setup but doesn?t want to(or can?t) store their entire library on the device, so it will stream both over the LAN and WAN.



    What about SoftRaid?



    SoftRAID ? easier RAID

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SoftRAID.html



    http://www.softraid.com/index.html
  • Reply 53 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    That's at your church though. How many people have 10 computers in their house? I'm not saying that's not a valuable feature, just that it's more of a SOHO/Business feature than a home one.



    Up to 10. How many families have one computer per person? I have several friends who have a couple of kids - three to four computer households are not uncommon at all. I have more than they do and it's just me, but then again I realize I'm out of the ordinary



    And the best thing about Windows Home Server is it centralizes backup for all of their computers and does it at a fraction of the space requirements than Time Machine. It just works - three of those computers are laptops - as soon as they are on the home network they are backed up without anyone having to do anything.



    Heck, even if I just had my Mac Pro and my MacBook Pro I would still find value in WHS, although it's not nearly as interesting in a pure Mac environment due to Apple's issues with backup, not due to any shortcomings from Microsoft's perspective. Heck, the backup is so efficient with WHS I let it backup my Windows virtual machines on my Mac's.



    I think TIme Machine is a great product, but it's running smack into the limitations of HFS+. Apple really needs to do something to replace HFS+ and move into the early 2000's for backup capability
  • Reply 54 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    HFS+ is quite good and if you look at the dates NTFS is old here



    I stand corrected. It appears VSS isn't totally dependant on NTFS:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Copy



    OK, this is what Apple needs and desperately - something similar in functionality. I figured by now they would have done something like this because of Time Machine - Time Machine is just screaming for something like this, especially considering how many Mac users have really large files out there.



    Quote:

    P.S They both support 255 char long filenames.



    Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking - talking about being really stuck in the past
  • Reply 55 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    my only complaint with the HP Media Smart is the crappy fan that makes way too much noise for its size.



    Which model is yours? I have a 490ex in my living room not 8 feet from me (with four drives) and it's silent. You shouldn't hear it...
  • Reply 56 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Which model is yours? I have a 490ex in my living room not 8 feet from me (with four drives) and it's silent. You shouldn't hear it...



    EX470. It was in a bedroom about 4 feet from the foot of the bed, so about 10 feet from my ears whilst sleeping. The Mac Pro in the bedroom was less noisy.
  • Reply 57 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    What about SoftRaid?



    SoftRAID ? easier RAID

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SoftRAID.html



    http://www.softraid.com/index.html



    SoftRAID still isn't as easy as inserting a drive and then answering the question "Use for backup or add to your storage pool to increase the amount of available space".



    That's what WHS (version 1 anyway) offers. It's a brilliant product that is, sadly vastly underrated.



    I had it streaming media to my iPhone (turned off my wifi on the iPhone and forced it to go over 3G to ensure it was working) in less than 10 minutes. I've cleared off quite a bit of music and podcasts I used to store on my iPhone "just in case" and now I just stream what I want from my vast library on demand.



    This is a huge potential market that Apple could really do better on. Time Capsule is surprisingly half-assed for Apple when you get down to it. It would be perfect in the '90s when households barely had one computer, let alone multiples - but multiple computer families are far from uncommon, and a WHS type device that could serve as the sole resource for an iPad... there's lots of room for interesting things couple with a home hub/server of some sort. For all the hype about the cloud. you are still going to need a local cache for files, and in the case of a total disaster likea ahard drive crash, restoring from a local backup will always beat the cloud (and I do both!).
  • Reply 58 of 58
    gctwnlgctwnl Posts: 278member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Up to 10. How many families have one computer per person? I have several friends who have a couple of kids - three to four computer households are not uncommon at all. I have more than they do and it's just me, but then again I realize I'm out of the ordinary



    Same here. A couple of kids and a couple of computers amongst which one mini server. But the solution here is to use portable home directories for all user accounts. So everybody can use his/her account on any computer. All accounts have portable home directories, so their stuff is synchronized with the server. And the server uses CrashPlan (not Time Machine) to backup itself to a local hard disk and to remote locations (a friend's computer) for free. CrashPlan is very good at deduplication and also at minimizing bandwidth. All backups are encrypted. The friend (and some other family members use CrashPlan to backup their systems to my server)
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