Hadayat Belonged to Egyptian al Qaeda
Hadayat Belonged to Egyptian Jihad,
al QaedaÂ?s Operational Arm
5 July:Â* Hashem Mohamed Hadayat, 41, who gunned down Yakov Aminov, 46, and Vicky Hen, 25 Â? both from Los Angeles - on the 4th of July at the El Al terminal of Los Angeles, and wounded 7 others, is revealed by DEBKAfileÂ?s intelligence and counter-terror sources as a Muslim extremist. During his ten years in the United States, he was a secret operative of the Egyptian Jihad who maintained undercover links to the same Jihad cell in Brooklyn, New York, as the Â?blind sheikhÂ? Abdul Rahim Rahman and Ramzi Yousef. Both are doing time for perpetrating the first attack on the New York World Trade Center in 1993.
Hadayat is also believed to have abetted a previous, contrived airline disaster: On October 31, 1999, an Egyptair Boeing 767 Flight 990, which also took off from Los Angeles airport, never reached its destination of Kennedy, New York. The plane plunged into the Atlantic off the Nantucket Island, Mass. coast, killing all 217 passengers and crew. In a special probe, the US National Transportation Safety Board found that the copilot Gameel el-Batouty was at the controls when the plane went into its dive. His voice was recorded shouting, Â?I put my faith in Allah!Â?
The report held back from referring more directly to the Egyptian copilotÂ?s responsibility for the crash.
Our sources affirm that Hadayat, who lived in Irvine, California, 70 km south of Los Angeles, knew Batouty well. There are also indications that, in the years 1998 and 1999, Hadayat was in touch with a group of high Egyptian air force officers and helicopter pilots posted at the time at Edwards Base north of Los Angeles. They were there to learn how to install command and control centers in EgyptÂ?s air defense systems, operate anti-air missile batteries and fly Apache gunships. Most of those officers were on the doomed Egyptian airliner after completing their courses.
Although the long-delayed US Transportation Board report never referred to the presence of this high-ranking Egyptian air force delegation on the flight, DEBKAfile Â?s Washington sources reported at the time that most of the investigators were satisfied that Batouty could not have seized control of the Boeing 767 without the aid Â? certainly the compliance - of those officers.
Two years ago, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak exerted all his influence on President Clinton to keep the federal boardÂ?s findings out of its published report and, above all, the fact that a group of Egyptian air force officers was on the plane. He warned that citing the Egyptian copilot as deliberately causing the crash would have a negative effect on Egyptian-US relations.
The report therefore fell short of clear conclusions.
HadayatÂ?s murderous attack on El Al flight 106 passengers points back to the Egyptair 990 disaster of 1999, reviving the many questions left open by that earlier, half stifled inquiry, which carefully stepped round any suggestion of terrorism. It also raises the question of how many sleeper cells the Egyptian Jihad, al QaedaÂ?s primary operational arm, maintains in American cities.
Hadayat struck the El Al ticket line on his 42nd birthday. The initial FBI inquiry found through records of his fingerprints at the Department of Motor Vehicles, which issued him with a limousine license, that he was married with at least one child, and had lived in Irvine for the last two years, working on a green card.
Since the attack, the possibility that he arrived in America as a sleeper terrorist must be seriously addressed. US investigators realize he was not a lone operative and are seeking his accomplices in such matters as setting up the hit, providing the guns he carried and intelligence on the security situation at the Tom Brady terminal.
DEBKAfileÂ?s Middle East intelligence sources report that early Friday, Egyptian intelligence officers picked up HadayatÂ?s relatives and associates in Cairo, to try and trace the identities of his fellows in the American Jihad cell.
---
mika.
al QaedaÂ?s Operational Arm
5 July:Â* Hashem Mohamed Hadayat, 41, who gunned down Yakov Aminov, 46, and Vicky Hen, 25 Â? both from Los Angeles - on the 4th of July at the El Al terminal of Los Angeles, and wounded 7 others, is revealed by DEBKAfileÂ?s intelligence and counter-terror sources as a Muslim extremist. During his ten years in the United States, he was a secret operative of the Egyptian Jihad who maintained undercover links to the same Jihad cell in Brooklyn, New York, as the Â?blind sheikhÂ? Abdul Rahim Rahman and Ramzi Yousef. Both are doing time for perpetrating the first attack on the New York World Trade Center in 1993.
Hadayat is also believed to have abetted a previous, contrived airline disaster: On October 31, 1999, an Egyptair Boeing 767 Flight 990, which also took off from Los Angeles airport, never reached its destination of Kennedy, New York. The plane plunged into the Atlantic off the Nantucket Island, Mass. coast, killing all 217 passengers and crew. In a special probe, the US National Transportation Safety Board found that the copilot Gameel el-Batouty was at the controls when the plane went into its dive. His voice was recorded shouting, Â?I put my faith in Allah!Â?
The report held back from referring more directly to the Egyptian copilotÂ?s responsibility for the crash.
Our sources affirm that Hadayat, who lived in Irvine, California, 70 km south of Los Angeles, knew Batouty well. There are also indications that, in the years 1998 and 1999, Hadayat was in touch with a group of high Egyptian air force officers and helicopter pilots posted at the time at Edwards Base north of Los Angeles. They were there to learn how to install command and control centers in EgyptÂ?s air defense systems, operate anti-air missile batteries and fly Apache gunships. Most of those officers were on the doomed Egyptian airliner after completing their courses.
Although the long-delayed US Transportation Board report never referred to the presence of this high-ranking Egyptian air force delegation on the flight, DEBKAfile Â?s Washington sources reported at the time that most of the investigators were satisfied that Batouty could not have seized control of the Boeing 767 without the aid Â? certainly the compliance - of those officers.
Two years ago, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak exerted all his influence on President Clinton to keep the federal boardÂ?s findings out of its published report and, above all, the fact that a group of Egyptian air force officers was on the plane. He warned that citing the Egyptian copilot as deliberately causing the crash would have a negative effect on Egyptian-US relations.
The report therefore fell short of clear conclusions.
HadayatÂ?s murderous attack on El Al flight 106 passengers points back to the Egyptair 990 disaster of 1999, reviving the many questions left open by that earlier, half stifled inquiry, which carefully stepped round any suggestion of terrorism. It also raises the question of how many sleeper cells the Egyptian Jihad, al QaedaÂ?s primary operational arm, maintains in American cities.
Hadayat struck the El Al ticket line on his 42nd birthday. The initial FBI inquiry found through records of his fingerprints at the Department of Motor Vehicles, which issued him with a limousine license, that he was married with at least one child, and had lived in Irvine for the last two years, working on a green card.
Since the attack, the possibility that he arrived in America as a sleeper terrorist must be seriously addressed. US investigators realize he was not a lone operative and are seeking his accomplices in such matters as setting up the hit, providing the guns he carried and intelligence on the security situation at the Tom Brady terminal.
DEBKAfileÂ?s Middle East intelligence sources report that early Friday, Egyptian intelligence officers picked up HadayatÂ?s relatives and associates in Cairo, to try and trace the identities of his fellows in the American Jihad cell.
---
mika.
Comments
<strong>This was not surprising in the least.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But of course it was a suicide attack: the co-pilot was a muslim!
1) Post your source!
2) Godammit!
3) Shouting "I put my faith in Allah!" as the plane went down, here posited in a rather underhand fashion as short-hand for "I have bin Laden's jissom on my uniform", means nothing. Were you in charge of a plummeting plane I fully expect you would reach out a hand to your deity of choice at a moment like this. It proves he believed in God, possibly. A fundamentalist, certainly not. Just some more spurious bullshit dug up by that dude from Haifa.
So let's see your source.
It proves he believed in God, possibly. A fundamentalist, certainly not. Just some more spurious bullshit dug up by that dude from Haifa.
So let's see your source.
If you read the article and you still can?t figure out the source, you need more help than I can offer you.
Also,
spu·ri·ous adj
1.\tbeing different from what it claims to be
Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation.
So you?re saying the article is bull and masquerades as something different from what it claims to be? How so?
If I were to float around a conspiracy theory, I would say that US officials are deliberately downplaying and in some cases down right concealing the connection(s) between this and other terror attacks and those Islamic groups that perpetrate them. To say that this terror attack, which happened on July 4 and on US soil, and deliberately targeted EL AL passengers and personnel at an airport terminal, does not necessarily lead them to the conclusion that a terrorist attack just occurred, is nothing short of amazing.
mika.
[ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>Seeing that we are all foreigners, except perhaps for the native Americans, that's a pretty idiotic statement.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. We, as a nation, owe a lot to the people who have immigrated here over the years. Immigration is what makes this nation strong.
If were just a plummeting plane then it might not have any significant meaning. However he is the one who caused it to plummet. In light of the fact that the flight data recorder indicated the dive was initiated by whomever was at the controls and that at one point you had contradictory flight control actions in the cockpit occuring within a very short span it is obvious that one of the pilots was trying to send the plane into the drink. It is quite possible that his choice to commit suicide and mass murder has nothing whatsoever to do with his islamic beliefs and he is just a psycho killer who happens to be a muslim. However, he chose to invoke the name of allah in his cause during a moment in time in which his cause happened to be killing himself and scores of other people. The question of his motives is a legitimate one and he is the one who brought allah into the discussion with his own comments.
[quote]If were just a plummeting plane then it might not have any significant meaning. However he is the one who caused it to plummet. In light of the fact that the flight data recorder indicated the dive was initiated by whomever was at the controls and that at one point you had contradictory flight control actions in the cockpit occuring within a very short span it is obvious that one of the pilots was trying to send the plane into the drink. <hr></blockquote>
I don't remember this at all. I followed this whole thing pretty closely and from what I recall they had no idea what ultimately caused the crash but mechanical failure of some kind was responsible. So I really would like to see a source.
[quote]The question of his motives is a legitimate one and he is the one who brought allah into the discussion with his own comments. <hr></blockquote>
Colander, he wasn't bringing anything into any discussion, he was about to die. He used a standard formula religious type's oath and off he went. None of this smacks of suicide business at all; he was a family man, no kind of radical, he'd had the job for years and if I remember correctly if he did have a 'motive' it was an argument with Air Egypt. And no-one was really certain about that.
"Our sources tell us that..." this very bad man who shot some El Al passengers somehow knew this guy: well, who are we talking about? Please? And I'm still waiting to find out who wrote Mika's piece.
And for that matter I'd really like to know what it's serving us to keep reading these threads about Bad Muslims when all that happens is the same old shite bores the board silly. We know you don't like Muslims, Mika, but we can all watch the news.
[ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: Hassan i-Sabbah ]</p>
If I really wanted to flood these boards with anti Muslim threads I could easily post 2-3 fresh posts on a daily basis, and still I wouldn?t cover all the mischief these people are causing around the world. There?s a lot of bad sh*t that is being deliberately concealed or obscured by the mainstream media outlets. If you don?t believe me, I?ll be happy to provide you with this information.
I stated this thread because I was disappointed by the way the mainstream international media was covering this tragedy. (They are still denying it?s a terrorist act). I wanted to bring to light what I consider is important and relevant information relating to this case.
I understand you are uncomfortable with this. But you?ve been a die-hard apologist for these people, and that needs to change. When you, and people as yourself become more critical of these Islamicists and actually start to publicly criticize them and their ideology, then I?ll consider the need for such posts unnecessary.
As far as the Article and the people who wrote it: here?s some info:
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---
mika.
[ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
I dont want to ahve to search for a stupid article that i know nothing about...
you started the disdussion, it would be nice if you included a link to the article that makes up most of your inital post so we can see the context...
we didnt ask for the verified credibility of your source, although that may have followed later on in the discussion...
all things being equal, to me it sounds a little to far fetched to be true... (the whole keepng it out of the report or losing diplomatic relations with egypt...) reeks of bullshit...
that is irellevant tho... please post a link to the article...
thanks
-Paul
[ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>dude, how hard is it to post a friggin link?
I dont want to ahve to search for a stupid article that i know nothing about...
you started the disdussion, it would be nice if you included a link to the article that makes up most of your inital post so we can see the context...
we didnt ask for the verified credibility of your source, although that may have followed later on in the discussion...
all things being equal, to me it sounds a little to far fetched to be true... (the whole keepng it out of the report or losing diplomatic relations with egypt...) reeks of bullshit...
that is irellevant tho... please post a link to the article...
thanks
-Paul</strong><hr></blockquote>
:eek: <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> :eek: <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>
:eek: <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> :eek: <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
am I missing something?
Im not too proud to admit a mistake... please explain...
mika.
i realized it was from "debka" but i didnt want to ahve to search for the article you reffer to, i didnt realise it was the main headline...
why do you have to be so condescending and rude?
its not too much to ask to get a link...
but regardless, i ahve it now and I am happy <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
now the content... give me a minute to digest it... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
mika.
i'll say again, I think it is bogus...
<strong>I was rude because you are a lazy sloth. If you bothered to type ?debka? in the address panel of your browser, you wouldn?t have spent 30 min waiting for a dumb reply.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
its called common courtesy, if you really cared about this issue, you would want as many people as possible to see it, and facilitationg a link, which takes 2 seconds of your time, as opposed to me reading through the entire thread to find what you meant by it, is not too much to ask... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Edit: also, I have never heard of "debka" until now... excuse me if I am skeptical...
I'm not saying that what they are saying is untrue... but I AM saying that so far the way you are presenting it and the way their website looks it doesnt look extremely professional to me...
[ 07-05-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>
<strong>ok why would clinton refuse to let out the "fact" that the airliner that went down in nantukett was hijacked? Egyptian pressure to keep the story supressed would only make Clinton (@ least in my assesment) want to get to the bottom of the propblem... it seems to me that the paper is just taking lose facts and applying them to what they know happened on 9/11 and a rough assesment of what might have hapened on the plane in nantukett...
i'll say again, I think it is bogus...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll refer you here:
] <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001342&p=9"; target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001342&p=9</a>;
Noah makes a very good argument.
mika.