Ooooh... Apple posts a profit and here come the socialists to ensure social (in)justice. Every year, these pension commies and unions try to muscle their way into Apple. If they succeed, Apple will face the same future as GM and Chrysler... low profits stifling R&D which leads to crappy products and poor morale.
Unions, as collective entities, should be barred from investing in corporate stocks or, doing so, relinquish their right to vote in stockholder votes... it's an obvious conflict of interest.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
Some dude on my block committed tax fraud. Therefore... there is a good chance Hellacool is ALSO COMMITTING TAX FRAUD. I'm calling for an immediate audit of Hellacool's taxes.
Of course Hellacool will be responsible for the entire cost of the audit. He will also not be compensated for all of the lost time because of the audit. Also, he will need to adjust his lifestyle to conform to the will of his auditors. Because Hellacool had decided to remain an American citizen, we have a right to DEMAND this of him.
And there my friends... is SarbOx. Out of the ashes of Enron and the collective groupthink of folks like Hellacool that you are guilty until proven innocent.
Hellacool, so you're saying there's evidence that Apple is cooking the books?
Are ALL companies guilty until proven innocent?
Your thinking is EXACTLY why we have the ridiculously massive TAX called Sarbanes Oxley.
Ever wonder why Facebook is still private? Ever wonder why the IPO market is dry as a bone over the past several years?
See Hellacool's statement for why.
The initial assumption is that all corporations are big greedy evil liars until someone proves otherwise.
So you are saying that there was evidence that ENRON was cooking the books and it still happened? Bottom line ENRON screwed allot of people and no-one was the wiser until it was too late. People were dumping money into ENRON because the cooked books looked great and the profit reports were fantastic. Investors are not going to let this happen again and have every right to do so. If Apple doesn't like it, they can buy up all their stocks and take the company private. Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
So you are saying that there was evidence that ENRON was cooking the books and it still happened? Bottom line ENRON screwed allot of people and no-one was the wiser until it was too late. People were dumping money into ENRON because the cooked books looked great and the profit reports were fantastic. Investors are not going to let this happen again and have every right to do so. If Apple doesn't like it, they can buy up all their stocks and take the company private. Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
Hey, they have a say. And the other 98% of shareholders that have made VAST amounts of wealth off of Apple can laugh at CalPERS all the way to the bank.
Treating all corporations like they are guilty until proven innocent is not a way to run a country.
Some dude on my block committed tax fraud. Therefore... there is a good chance Hellacool is ALSO COMMITTING TAX FRAUD. I'm calling for an immediate audit of Hellacool's taxes.
Of course Hellacool will be responsible for the entire cost of the audit. He will also not be compensated for all of the lost time because of the audit. Also, he will need to adjust his lifestyle to conform to the will of his auditors. Because Hellacool had decided to remain an American citizen, we have a right to DEMAND this of him.
And there my friends... is SarbOx. Out of the ashes of Enron and the collective groupthink of folks like Hellacool that you are guilty until proven innocent.
Wow your example is a bit off considering you have no stake in my taxes or affairs on the other hand these investors have a large stake in Apples affairs and have every right to intervene when they see fit. If Apple doesn't like it then they can buy back all their stocks and go private but since they are a public company they will have to do what they are told.
Hey, they have a say. And the other 98% of shareholders that have made VAST amounts of wealth off of Apple can laugh at CalPERS all the way to the bank.
Treating all corporations like they are guilty until proven innocent is not a way to run a country.
They are not running a country they are running a business. How you can confuse the two is beyond me. These are citizens that own stock in a public company end of story.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
Lot good that did! Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, politicians of all stripes middling in the process of what banks and lenders know, you don't sell to someone who can't afford. Look what that has got us in the Housing Industry over the past two years. Home not foreclosed on, consider yourself lucky.
Wow your example is a bit off considering you have no stake in my taxes or affairs on the other hand these investors have a large stake in Apples affairs and have every right to intervene when they see fit. If Apple doesn't like it then they can buy back all their stocks and go private but since they are a public company they will have to do what they are told.
Public companies just "have to do what they are told." By who? By a 2% shareholder? Apple must bow down everytime a 2% shareholder says "do what you are told."?
Or, is it the GOVERNMENT that should just always tell companies how they should be run?
Lot good that did! Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, politicians of all stripes middling in the process of what banks and lenders know, you don't sell to someone who can't afford. Look what that has got us in the Housing Industry over the past two years. Home not foreclosed on, consider yourself lucky.
Not lucky, just not an idiot. To many people bought way more house than they could afford, I didn't.
Public companies just "have to do what they are told." By who? By a 2% shareholder? Apple must bow down everytime a 2% shareholder says "do what you are told."?
Or, is it the GOVERNMENT that should just always tell companies how they should be run?
You can go to Cuba or Venezuela if you want that.
Yes, a public company is owned by the shareholders. If a shareholder has enough shares they have a say. If Microsoft went around secretly and bought up enough Apple shares guess who is calling the shots? It is that simple. When you are public you are public. This has zero to do with the government so put away your tin foil hat. Just think about how much money is 2% of Apple. People have a right to protect that.
Not lucky, just not an idiot. To many people bought way more house than they could afford, I didn't.
So, the people that invested in Enron weren't idiots... they just needed to be protected by the government. HOWEVER, the people that lost all their money in Fanny/Freddy stocks were idiots? We're talking stocks here now if you want to continue comparing apples to apples.
Punishing everybody for the acts of a few does nobody any good. There were already laws on the books to make what Enron did illegal. You want to make everybody else guilty until proven innocent.
These are citizens that own stock in a public company end of story.
They are also Union and that should sound alarm bells from the start! Plus it's a union from California and it is for the benefit of "PENSION FUND"!... Run! Run as far away as you can!!
Seriously, if anyone's books need to be audited it is the California Union's Pension Funds!
Actually, if I were California (the state) I would be telling these people to shut the hell up, because the solution to all of this seems very easy to me. Apple moves all of its interest out of California (along with all of their taxes).
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
Actually, if I were California (the state) I would be telling these people to shut the hell up, because the solution to all of this seems very easy to me. Apple moves all of its interest out of California (along with all of their taxes).
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
Yep...
At the end of the day, looking at the original story. Is this not just completely laughable? How can you look at Apple and AAPL and think they just don't have the interest of shareholders in mind? For the past 10+ years, I've seen Jobs say the exact same thing everytime he's asked about the share price. "We don't worry about share price. We worry about making great products that people want and we believe that if we do that, the share price will follow."
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
Maybe that explains all that extra land that was purchased in NC!
Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
CalPERS is not a majority stakeholder. They (logically) invested part of their fund because they thought it was a well run company that showed signs they were going to be successful in the future. They should divest themselves of their holdings if they now have concerns about that company.
Comments
Unions, as collective entities, should be barred from investing in corporate stocks or, doing so, relinquish their right to vote in stockholder votes... it's an obvious conflict of interest.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
Yeah, Apple must be an Enron in lurk mode.
Yeah, Apple must be an Enron in lurk mode.
You don't know.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
Hellacool, so you're saying there's evidence that Apple is cooking the books?
Are ALL companies guilty until proven innocent?
Your thinking is EXACTLY why we have the ridiculously massive TAX called Sarbanes Oxley.
Ever wonder why Facebook is still private? Ever wonder why the IPO market is dry as a bone over the past several years?
See Hellacool's statement for why.
The initial assumption is that all corporations are big greedy evil liars until someone proves otherwise.
You don't know.
Some dude on my block committed tax fraud. Therefore... there is a good chance Hellacool is ALSO COMMITTING TAX FRAUD. I'm calling for an immediate audit of Hellacool's taxes.
Of course Hellacool will be responsible for the entire cost of the audit. He will also not be compensated for all of the lost time because of the audit. Also, he will need to adjust his lifestyle to conform to the will of his auditors. Because Hellacool had decided to remain an American citizen, we have a right to DEMAND this of him.
And there my friends... is SarbOx. Out of the ashes of Enron and the collective groupthink of folks like Hellacool that you are guilty until proven innocent.
Hellacool, so you're saying there's evidence that Apple is cooking the books?
Are ALL companies guilty until proven innocent?
Your thinking is EXACTLY why we have the ridiculously massive TAX called Sarbanes Oxley.
Ever wonder why Facebook is still private? Ever wonder why the IPO market is dry as a bone over the past several years?
See Hellacool's statement for why.
The initial assumption is that all corporations are big greedy evil liars until someone proves otherwise.
So you are saying that there was evidence that ENRON was cooking the books and it still happened? Bottom line ENRON screwed allot of people and no-one was the wiser until it was too late. People were dumping money into ENRON because the cooked books looked great and the profit reports were fantastic. Investors are not going to let this happen again and have every right to do so. If Apple doesn't like it, they can buy up all their stocks and take the company private. Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
So you are saying that there was evidence that ENRON was cooking the books and it still happened? Bottom line ENRON screwed allot of people and no-one was the wiser until it was too late. People were dumping money into ENRON because the cooked books looked great and the profit reports were fantastic. Investors are not going to let this happen again and have every right to do so. If Apple doesn't like it, they can buy up all their stocks and take the company private. Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
Hey, they have a say. And the other 98% of shareholders that have made VAST amounts of wealth off of Apple can laugh at CalPERS all the way to the bank.
Treating all corporations like they are guilty until proven innocent is not a way to run a country.
Some dude on my block committed tax fraud. Therefore... there is a good chance Hellacool is ALSO COMMITTING TAX FRAUD. I'm calling for an immediate audit of Hellacool's taxes.
Of course Hellacool will be responsible for the entire cost of the audit. He will also not be compensated for all of the lost time because of the audit. Also, he will need to adjust his lifestyle to conform to the will of his auditors. Because Hellacool had decided to remain an American citizen, we have a right to DEMAND this of him.
And there my friends... is SarbOx. Out of the ashes of Enron and the collective groupthink of folks like Hellacool that you are guilty until proven innocent.
Wow your example is a bit off considering you have no stake in my taxes or affairs on the other hand these investors have a large stake in Apples affairs and have every right to intervene when they see fit. If Apple doesn't like it then they can buy back all their stocks and go private but since they are a public company they will have to do what they are told.
Hey, they have a say. And the other 98% of shareholders that have made VAST amounts of wealth off of Apple can laugh at CalPERS all the way to the bank.
Treating all corporations like they are guilty until proven innocent is not a way to run a country.
They are not running a country they are running a business. How you can confuse the two is beyond me. These are citizens that own stock in a public company end of story.
ENRON posted big profits too, look where they are. It is all about keeping that from happening again.
Lot good that did! Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, politicians of all stripes middling in the process of what banks and lenders know, you don't sell to someone who can't afford. Look what that has got us in the Housing Industry over the past two years. Home not foreclosed on, consider yourself lucky.
Wow your example is a bit off considering you have no stake in my taxes or affairs on the other hand these investors have a large stake in Apples affairs and have every right to intervene when they see fit. If Apple doesn't like it then they can buy back all their stocks and go private but since they are a public company they will have to do what they are told.
Public companies just "have to do what they are told." By who? By a 2% shareholder? Apple must bow down everytime a 2% shareholder says "do what you are told."?
Or, is it the GOVERNMENT that should just always tell companies how they should be run?
You can go to Cuba or Venezuela if you want that.
Lot good that did! Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, politicians of all stripes middling in the process of what banks and lenders know, you don't sell to someone who can't afford. Look what that has got us in the Housing Industry over the past two years. Home not foreclosed on, consider yourself lucky.
Not lucky, just not an idiot. To many people bought way more house than they could afford, I didn't.
Public companies just "have to do what they are told." By who? By a 2% shareholder? Apple must bow down everytime a 2% shareholder says "do what you are told."?
Or, is it the GOVERNMENT that should just always tell companies how they should be run?
You can go to Cuba or Venezuela if you want that.
Yes, a public company is owned by the shareholders. If a shareholder has enough shares they have a say. If Microsoft went around secretly and bought up enough Apple shares guess who is calling the shots? It is that simple. When you are public you are public. This has zero to do with the government so put away your tin foil hat. Just think about how much money is 2% of Apple. People have a right to protect that.
Not lucky, just not an idiot. To many people bought way more house than they could afford, I didn't.
So, the people that invested in Enron weren't idiots... they just needed to be protected by the government. HOWEVER, the people that lost all their money in Fanny/Freddy stocks were idiots? We're talking stocks here now if you want to continue comparing apples to apples.
Punishing everybody for the acts of a few does nobody any good. There were already laws on the books to make what Enron did illegal. You want to make everybody else guilty until proven innocent.
These are citizens that own stock in a public company end of story.
They are also Union and that should sound alarm bells from the start! Plus it's a union from California and it is for the benefit of "PENSION FUND"!... Run! Run as far away as you can!!
Seriously, if anyone's books need to be audited it is the California Union's Pension Funds!
Actually, if I were California (the state) I would be telling these people to shut the hell up, because the solution to all of this seems very easy to me. Apple moves all of its interest out of California (along with all of their taxes).
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
You don't know.
Just as you don't know about those aliens likely living in your tooth filling.
Wow, way to completely derail the conversation.
Actually, if I were California (the state) I would be telling these people to shut the hell up, because the solution to all of this seems very easy to me. Apple moves all of its interest out of California (along with all of their taxes).
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
Yep...
At the end of the day, looking at the original story. Is this not just completely laughable? How can you look at Apple and AAPL and think they just don't have the interest of shareholders in mind? For the past 10+ years, I've seen Jobs say the exact same thing everytime he's asked about the share price. "We don't worry about share price. We worry about making great products that people want and we believe that if we do that, the share price will follow."
Sounds like a pretty reasonable approach to me!
Than even if this does pass they can move to one of those states where it is meaningless because it is not required by law that the board member quits. Therefore, the only people who lose in the end is California and its already cash strapped citizens. After all, I am sure Washington state would be more than happy to welcome them. Apple could move in right next door to Microsoft.
Maybe that explains all that extra land that was purchased in NC!
Until then, anyone with a majority stake in the company has a say.
CalPERS is not a majority stakeholder. They (logically) invested part of their fund because they thought it was a well run company that showed signs they were going to be successful in the future. They should divest themselves of their holdings if they now have concerns about that company.