Not to mention that mobile app stores was pretty foreign to most people back when the App Store was rolled out.
T-Mobile had something called T-Zones which was an Internet service you could access from a Java-enabled WAP Phone (e.g., your ordinary flip phone), and it sold stuff like games, apps, ringtones & wallpapers. I'd bought craptastic Java games like Call of Duty and Doom RPG for my old Motorola RAZR V3 through T-Zones, and you would download the apps directly to the phone. If that doesn't describe an app store, I don't know what does.
The mobile app market is in its infancy even though there are thousands available. The really useful ones will eventually be available on all the popular platforms so it is not how many apps that is important, rather which platforms survive for a number of reasons.
Popular apps really only have a few categories:
Major vendors offering free apps:
Skype, Acrobat, Google, etc.
Paid Games:
Racing, shooter, strategy type titles from well known publishers
Free or cheap utilities:
Transit schedules, metric conversion, weather
Expensive apps:
Tom Tom, Business apps, etc.
All of the the essential apps should show up very quickly on WP7 as they have on Android.
Whether WP7 will be profitable for MS, the developers or carriers remains to be seen but Its success or failure will not be for lack of suitable apps.
"The iPhone had 0 apps for a year before Apple decided to roll out support for 3rd party applications. The App Store opened on 11 July 2008 with 500 apps. After two months there were 3,000 apps"
I just love how Apple Insider keeps on cherry picking -dishonestly- its numbers. Fact is that the Windows Phone 7 platform has more apps than the iPhone platform two months after its app store launch... Strange that it can't be mentioned, no? ...
A less paranoid interpretation might be that the number of apps a particular platform attracts in the first month or two of it's existence is just not a good indicator of consumer demand.
Another obvious conclusion is that the state of the market for smart-phones that existed at the time of the iPhone's release is quite different from the state that exist now as Windows 7 is being released.
Here is another comparative stat: Android Market opened on October 22nd, 2008 and on March 17th, 2009, there were about 2,300 applications, according to Wikipedia. That?s almost 2.5x as long to have less than half the apps. I?d say WP7 is off to a pretty good start.
While I know the rumors are numerous, if Apple doesn't get it's arse over to other carriers, here in the USA at least, it could find itself regulated to distant second or third place. Just IMO.
I know many people waiting for Verizon iPhones and they are getting very very impatient. So, if WP7 can head off the google onslaught for a while and muddy the waters, in sad sort of way, might be a good thing.... Don't let android be the 'defacto' standard, ala Windows and Office. Let's hope there's a 'surprise' announcement in a few weeks. But IMO again, think apple will wait till June or even next year(LTE)... sigh. Yes I'm glass half empty person.
T-Mobile had something called T-Zones which was an Internet service you could access from a Java-enabled WAP Phone (e.g., your ordinary flip phone), and it sold stuff like games, apps, ringtones & wallpapers. I'd bought craptastic Java games like Call of Duty and Doom RPG for my old Motorola RAZR V3 through T-Zones, and you would download the apps directly to the phone. If that doesn't describe an app store, I don't know what does.
I said foreign to most people. Apple obviously didn't invent app stores but they took mobile apps and app stores mainstream and to the consciousness of regular non-gizmo savvy consumers.
A less paranoid interpretation might be that the number of apps a particular platform attracts in the first month or two of it's existence is just not a good indicator of consumer demand.
Another obvious conclusion is that the state of the market for smart-phones that existed at the time of the iPhone's release is quite different from the state that exist now as Windows 7 is being released.
- Exactly. It's pretty easy for developers to port or copy ideas that have already been written for iPhone. All of the hard work has been done, so there's no need for innovation and R&D. In fact the whole touch phone industry (particularly 7Phone and Android) is base on Apples R&D from 2007. It's a lot easier to come along second, third and fourth when all the hard work has been done for you.
There seems to be more interest in Android though. They probably just let in any existing Xbox hobbyist game writer to submit their Microsoft XNA Studio game to their store. Most of them are probably equivalent to fart apps.
EDIT:
I just checked it out. Looks like I was right. Virtually all of the "Apps" are Xbox XNA Studio games that were re-compiled for the Windows Phone 7. There are a few nice titles among them though. There are very few non-game apps: Adobe Reader, Yelp, Ebay, YouTube, and Netflix were about all I saw. Nothing close to level of sophistication you find on an iPhone.
I have no idea where you checked, but your edit is simply incorrect. You can have a look at wp7appslist.com for an incomplete list of apps (I believe it only lists 3K apps). The first page of the What's New tab will show approximately 30 apps, of which 4 are games. Browsing the rest of the list indicates that the majority of apps are not game apps.
In your "checking things out" You seemed to have overlooked Shaazam, Last.fm, Iheartradio, IMDB, Flixster, Fandango, Twitter to name but a few of the major apps.
Who knows if WP7 will survive, but if you are going to question its viability, one should at least get the information correct.
As Mentioned last Summer, Microsoft is/was paying developers to develop applications for the WP7. Not to mention that M-Soft has given developers free phones to help them develop the applications for the os. SO now we know where 5,000 phones went, and how the developers were "bribed" to produce applications in order to make it appear that M-Soft is having rapid acceptance from developers.
Sure, Microsoft has plenty of money to throw at WP7 developers. It all comes from their two main sources of revenue: Windows and Office. But eventually those developers will realize that they can and will make more money on app sales through Apple's App Store.
And some of them, if they're lucky, might even make money through Android Market. But not with paid apps. Google's business model is to put software anywhere, everywhere there are eyeballs to see AdMob ads. That's why it's free. To maximize ad revenue. Their product is you, the viewer of their ads. Their clients are their advertisers. But I digress.
Between making money selling apps through the App Store and getting revenue from free apps through Android Market, there's no room in the middle for developers to make money on WP7. The only thing Microsoft can point to is their huge Windows + Office revenue stream. Some of which Microsoft will throw at WP7 until it succeeds or until they change its name and try a new marketing campaign. I hope app developers remember that in the last 10 years, Microsoft has had precious little success outside their core competency: milking Windows and Office customers in the enterprise market.
The developers who haven't taken WP7 bribe money, the rational ones, will take the wait and see approach. They'll see how well WP7 apps have sold after a year. If it makes economic sense, they'll develop apps for WP7. Assuming, of course, that WP7 is still around.
Why all he vitriol again MSFT? I thought we've all moved beyond that- and why is that even relevant on an Apple centric website except to invite bashing? And/or trolling? Kind of an expression of a low self esteem if you ask me.
but the real numbers I would like to see if how many phones MSFT actually sold and how many apps were sold. If MSFT is going to get any respect here it will be when they honestly report the number of phones actually sold. The numbers of apps in any particular store number can be skewed in any one of a number of ways. But if MSFT sold only 100,000 phones, it wouldn't matter if they had a million apps in their store, there wouldn't be the numbers of consumers to support the number of apps. And if they sold a million phones, the 5000 apps in the store have a good chance of selling a decent amount.
"The iPhone had 0 apps for a year before Apple decided to roll out support for 3rd party applications. The App Store opened on 11 July 2008 with 500 apps. After two months there were 3,000 apps"
I just love how Apple Insider keeps on cherry picking -dishonestly- its numbers. Fact is that the Windows Phone 7 platform has more apps than the iPhone platform two months after its app store launch... Strange that it can't be mentioned, no?
While Apple had 0 native third party apps, one must not forget the web apps that were initially out before the clamor from iPhone users wanting natively run apps. While there is only over 1700 web apps due to the development of the native apps and app store, web apps are still being developed and released.
Also, nice of MS to benefit from Apple innovation again. Prior to WP7, Steve Ballmer said regarding where MS was regarding the mobile market and there mobile OS and phone options, "I like our strategy. I like it a lot.". Is this more "Change we can believe in" hype? If Ballmer was a principled man, WP7 would not be here. Why some don't even have a keyboard which doesn't make it a very good email device...
Steve Ballmer is a very big man... Comes from having to eat his words so often!
There seems to be more interest in Android though. They probably just let in any existing Xbox hobbyist game writer to submit their Microsoft XNA Studio game to their store. Most of them are probably equivalent to fart apps.
EDIT:
I just checked it out. Looks like I was right. Virtually all of the "Apps" are Xbox XNA Studio games that were re-compiled for the Windows Phone 7. There are a few nice titles among them though. There are very few non-game apps: Adobe Reader, Yelp, Ebay, YouTube, and Netflix were about all I saw. Nothing close to level of sophistication you find on an iPhone.
Actually most arent game apps, maybe about 1,000.
Also doesnt Apple have like 30+ FART/BURP applications?
While Apple had 0 native third party apps, one must not forget the web apps that were initially out before the clamor from iPhone users wanting natively run apps. While there is only over 1700 web apps due to the development of the native apps and app store, web apps are still being developed and released.
Also, nice of MS to benefit from Apple innovation again. Prior to WP7, Steve Ballmer said regarding where MS was regarding the mobile market and there mobile OS and phone options, "I like our strategy. I like it a lot.". Is this more "Change we can believe in" hype? If Ballmer was a principled man, WP7 would not be here. Why some don't even have a keyboard which doesn't make it a very good email device...
Steve Ballmer is a very big man... Comes from having to eat his words so often!
Actually the most favored devices in the Droid world have keyboards...
The most anticipated WP7 device is the WM7 Touch Pro.
He underestimated those who struggle with the keyboard, having to stop and recheck and send bad emails - but insist they are still ok with it. He gives too much credit to people - there are sooo many stupid ones.
That said, while this is technically a better start in app numbers than any other ?app phone? OS, esummers? point needs to be heavily considered. On top of that, we?re talking about a company that had never done this before compared to MS with a lot of mobile app ecosystem experience. Finally, note the interest in smartphones have increased dramatically since 2008 so we?d expect a certain percentage to be attributed to that. There are no laboratory vacuum tests to be done here, so we?re going to have to try to be objective and look at every angle to see the big picture.
You are right, that one has to look at the big picture. Several points to consider.
1. When WP7 was launched, much of this board declared it DOA, another kin, an epic failure, etc. a view that was espoused by a segment of the tech press. The fact that the app store is growing as fast as it is, suggests that these predictions are wrong.
2. When WP7 was launched, many in the tech press said that a key to WP7 would be developers and apps. Based on this criteria, the rate of growth of the app store, would suggest a successful launch.
3. When Android was launched, Apple had what, 100k apps, and Android had what, 0 apps, and yet no one that I can remember declared Android DOA based on the app differential.
Comments
Not to mention that mobile app stores was pretty foreign to most people back when the App Store was rolled out.
T-Mobile had something called T-Zones which was an Internet service you could access from a Java-enabled WAP Phone (e.g., your ordinary flip phone), and it sold stuff like games, apps, ringtones & wallpapers. I'd bought craptastic Java games like Call of Duty and Doom RPG for my old Motorola RAZR V3 through T-Zones, and you would download the apps directly to the phone. If that doesn't describe an app store, I don't know what does.
Popular apps really only have a few categories:
Major vendors offering free apps:
Skype, Acrobat, Google, etc.
Paid Games:
Racing, shooter, strategy type titles from well known publishers
Free or cheap utilities:
Transit schedules, metric conversion, weather
Expensive apps:
Tom Tom, Business apps, etc.
All of the the essential apps should show up very quickly on WP7 as they have on Android.
Whether WP7 will be profitable for MS, the developers or carriers remains to be seen but Its success or failure will not be for lack of suitable apps.
Oh, good. Number of apps finally caught up to the number of phones.
You shouldn't speak this out too loud. Since iOS Apps will have a huge way to to match the number of iOS devices sold.
"The iPhone had 0 apps for a year before Apple decided to roll out support for 3rd party applications. The App Store opened on 11 July 2008 with 500 apps. After two months there were 3,000 apps"
I just love how Apple Insider keeps on cherry picking -dishonestly- its numbers. Fact is that the Windows Phone 7 platform has more apps than the iPhone platform two months after its app store launch... Strange that it can't be mentioned, no? ...
A less paranoid interpretation might be that the number of apps a particular platform attracts in the first month or two of it's existence is just not a good indicator of consumer demand.
Another obvious conclusion is that the state of the market for smart-phones that existed at the time of the iPhone's release is quite different from the state that exist now as Windows 7 is being released.
Here is another comparative stat: Android Market opened on October 22nd, 2008 and on March 17th, 2009, there were about 2,300 applications, according to Wikipedia. That?s almost 2.5x as long to have less than half the apps. I?d say WP7 is off to a pretty good start.
While I know the rumors are numerous, if Apple doesn't get it's arse over to other carriers, here in the USA at least, it could find itself regulated to distant second or third place. Just IMO.
I know many people waiting for Verizon iPhones and they are getting very very impatient. So, if WP7 can head off the google onslaught for a while and muddy the waters, in sad sort of way, might be a good thing.... Don't let android be the 'defacto' standard, ala Windows and Office. Let's hope there's a 'surprise' announcement in a few weeks. But IMO again, think apple will wait till June or even next year(LTE)... sigh. Yes I'm glass half empty person.
T-Mobile had something called T-Zones which was an Internet service you could access from a Java-enabled WAP Phone (e.g., your ordinary flip phone), and it sold stuff like games, apps, ringtones & wallpapers. I'd bought craptastic Java games like Call of Duty and Doom RPG for my old Motorola RAZR V3 through T-Zones, and you would download the apps directly to the phone. If that doesn't describe an app store, I don't know what does.
I said foreign to most people. Apple obviously didn't invent app stores but they took mobile apps and app stores mainstream and to the consciousness of regular non-gizmo savvy consumers.
A less paranoid interpretation might be that the number of apps a particular platform attracts in the first month or two of it's existence is just not a good indicator of consumer demand.
Another obvious conclusion is that the state of the market for smart-phones that existed at the time of the iPhone's release is quite different from the state that exist now as Windows 7 is being released.
- Exactly. It's pretty easy for developers to port or copy ideas that have already been written for iPhone. All of the hard work has been done, so there's no need for innovation and R&D. In fact the whole touch phone industry (particularly 7Phone and Android) is base on Apples R&D from 2007. It's a lot easier to come along second, third and fourth when all the hard work has been done for you.
WM7 is off to a stellar start, since they are ONLY on cellular devices. The apple number was primarily ipods in the beginning.
There seems to be more interest in Android though. They probably just let in any existing Xbox hobbyist game writer to submit their Microsoft XNA Studio game to their store. Most of them are probably equivalent to fart apps.
EDIT:
I just checked it out. Looks like I was right. Virtually all of the "Apps" are Xbox XNA Studio games that were re-compiled for the Windows Phone 7. There are a few nice titles among them though. There are very few non-game apps: Adobe Reader, Yelp, Ebay, YouTube, and Netflix were about all I saw. Nothing close to level of sophistication you find on an iPhone.
I have no idea where you checked, but your edit is simply incorrect. You can have a look at wp7appslist.com for an incomplete list of apps (I believe it only lists 3K apps). The first page of the What's New tab will show approximately 30 apps, of which 4 are games. Browsing the rest of the list indicates that the majority of apps are not game apps.
In your "checking things out" You seemed to have overlooked Shaazam, Last.fm, Iheartradio, IMDB, Flixster, Fandango, Twitter to name but a few of the major apps.
Who knows if WP7 will survive, but if you are going to question its viability, one should at least get the information correct.
As Mentioned last Summer, Microsoft is/was paying developers to develop applications for the WP7. Not to mention that M-Soft has given developers free phones to help them develop the applications for the os. SO now we know where 5,000 phones went, and how the developers were "bribed" to produce applications in order to make it appear that M-Soft is having rapid acceptance from developers.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_7_games.html
Sure, Microsoft has plenty of money to throw at WP7 developers. It all comes from their two main sources of revenue: Windows and Office. But eventually those developers will realize that they can and will make more money on app sales through Apple's App Store.
And some of them, if they're lucky, might even make money through Android Market. But not with paid apps. Google's business model is to put software anywhere, everywhere there are eyeballs to see AdMob ads. That's why it's free. To maximize ad revenue. Their product is you, the viewer of their ads. Their clients are their advertisers. But I digress.
Between making money selling apps through the App Store and getting revenue from free apps through Android Market, there's no room in the middle for developers to make money on WP7. The only thing Microsoft can point to is their huge Windows + Office revenue stream. Some of which Microsoft will throw at WP7 until it succeeds or until they change its name and try a new marketing campaign. I hope app developers remember that in the last 10 years, Microsoft has had precious little success outside their core competency: milking Windows and Office customers in the enterprise market.
The developers who haven't taken WP7 bribe money, the rational ones, will take the wait and see approach. They'll see how well WP7 apps have sold after a year. If it makes economic sense, they'll develop apps for WP7. Assuming, of course, that WP7 is still around.
Very nice build quality. It's not as nice as my iPhone 4 but still a really nice phone.
I have played with the phone a lot. In general, the apps are not as good as most on iOS.
But, I do like her facebook app better than mine.
Just because this is an apple site, doesn't mean MS products are all horrible.
Just like windows 7 for home computers, MS did a good job.
Notice the apple making fun of windows commercials are all gone.
Windows 7 is a rock solid OS and apple cant make fun of it.
I personally use mac and iPhone but wife still likes windows.
Oh, good. Number of apps finally caught up to the number of phones.
Neal
Oh, good. Number of apps finally caught up to the number of phones.
That would be funny had they not reached 1 million sooner than the first iphone.
or faster than Android reached its first million. I think it was 70 days before iphone reached its first 1 million sold.
Also WM7 faster growing app store than Apple or Droid.
"The iPhone had 0 apps for a year before Apple decided to roll out support for 3rd party applications. The App Store opened on 11 July 2008 with 500 apps. After two months there were 3,000 apps"
I just love how Apple Insider keeps on cherry picking -dishonestly- its numbers. Fact is that the Windows Phone 7 platform has more apps than the iPhone platform two months after its app store launch... Strange that it can't be mentioned, no?
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phone...lace-apps/5156
While Apple had 0 native third party apps, one must not forget the web apps that were initially out before the clamor from iPhone users wanting natively run apps. While there is only over 1700 web apps due to the development of the native apps and app store, web apps are still being developed and released.
Also, nice of MS to benefit from Apple innovation again. Prior to WP7, Steve Ballmer said regarding where MS was regarding the mobile market and there mobile OS and phone options, "I like our strategy. I like it a lot.". Is this more "Change we can believe in" hype? If Ballmer was a principled man, WP7 would not be here. Why some don't even have a keyboard which doesn't make it a very good email device...
Steve Ballmer is a very big man... Comes from having to eat his words so often!
There seems to be more interest in Android though. They probably just let in any existing Xbox hobbyist game writer to submit their Microsoft XNA Studio game to their store. Most of them are probably equivalent to fart apps.
EDIT:
I just checked it out. Looks like I was right. Virtually all of the "Apps" are Xbox XNA Studio games that were re-compiled for the Windows Phone 7. There are a few nice titles among them though. There are very few non-game apps: Adobe Reader, Yelp, Ebay, YouTube, and Netflix were about all I saw. Nothing close to level of sophistication you find on an iPhone.
Actually most arent game apps, maybe about 1,000.
Also doesnt Apple have like 30+ FART/BURP applications?
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/02/10/31-fa...in-90-seconds/
and this was just from February of 2009 !?!?
So they are up to what.. 50 to 100 ??!
While Apple had 0 native third party apps, one must not forget the web apps that were initially out before the clamor from iPhone users wanting natively run apps. While there is only over 1700 web apps due to the development of the native apps and app store, web apps are still being developed and released.
Also, nice of MS to benefit from Apple innovation again. Prior to WP7, Steve Ballmer said regarding where MS was regarding the mobile market and there mobile OS and phone options, "I like our strategy. I like it a lot.". Is this more "Change we can believe in" hype? If Ballmer was a principled man, WP7 would not be here. Why some don't even have a keyboard which doesn't make it a very good email device...
Steve Ballmer is a very big man... Comes from having to eat his words so often!
Actually the most favored devices in the Droid world have keyboards...
The most anticipated WP7 device is the WM7 Touch Pro.
He underestimated those who struggle with the keyboard, having to stop and recheck and send bad emails - but insist they are still ok with it. He gives too much credit to people - there are sooo many stupid ones.
That said, while this is technically a better start in app numbers than any other ?app phone? OS, esummers? point needs to be heavily considered. On top of that, we?re talking about a company that had never done this before compared to MS with a lot of mobile app ecosystem experience. Finally, note the interest in smartphones have increased dramatically since 2008 so we?d expect a certain percentage to be attributed to that. There are no laboratory vacuum tests to be done here, so we?re going to have to try to be objective and look at every angle to see the big picture.
You are right, that one has to look at the big picture. Several points to consider.
1. When WP7 was launched, much of this board declared it DOA, another kin, an epic failure, etc. a view that was espoused by a segment of the tech press. The fact that the app store is growing as fast as it is, suggests that these predictions are wrong.
2. When WP7 was launched, many in the tech press said that a key to WP7 would be developers and apps. Based on this criteria, the rate of growth of the app store, would suggest a successful launch.
3. When Android was launched, Apple had what, 100k apps, and Android had what, 0 apps, and yet no one that I can remember declared Android DOA based on the app differential.
but the real numbers I would like to see if how many phones MSFT actually sold.
Neal
Microsoft said how many they sold - they sold 1.5 million licenses.
Unlike Apple, MS does not sell phones, so when MS says it sold 1.5 million liscenses, that is what they sold.