I think we both are right and the camera is a primary example of how Apple differs from other handset vendors. I think the difference is Apple, for better or for worse, is choosing not to put in a 12Mpx camera with huge lens that takes really great images into their slim iPhones, while other vendors may feel they have no choice but to compete on spec sheet features because they can?t compete well in the other areas.
That said, I think I have more hope for Nokia than you do.
Maybe so. Nokia's "sold out" announcement for the N8 was a bit misleading. Yes they sold out but only in Nokia shops. Nokia waited 2 to 4 weeks before they released the phone to the carriers. So, yes they sold out but at the carrier level you can go and get an N8, but iPhones are sold out. Literally.
If they are, "crippled by an OS that is well behind the intuitiveness of the iPhone," how can you be sure the hardware is so great?
I don't really pay attention to Nokia (they are irrelevant as far as smartphones go at this point) but I haven't seen any Android phones with hardware that, "simply blows the iPhone out of the water."
Simple. I don't live in a myopic iOS only world. While I will most likely never own a high end Nokia smartphone again, I do acknowledge that they exist and I also give credit where credit is due. The N8 is not for me but for some. The camera is the best ever mounted in a smartphone and the feature set is quite impressive.
Unless there's some sort of price drop, it doesn't seem likely that people will jump to replace a $500-800 device every year.
Here's hoping that there WILL be a price drop!
My reasons to believe that the price will drop (~$100?)
1) Apple has tons of reserve cash and may favor unit sales versus profit margin (get the devices out there and dominate the market)
2) The first-gen iPad has sold many units, allowing for thinner profit margins per unit and economies of scale.
3) Apple may wish to continue their momentum against the competition by being aggressive on the price. Recreate their success with the iPod, where a ~70% market share made "iPod" synonymous with MP3 player.
4) Even the uber-elite iPhone dropped some $200 from 2007 to 2008. Then again, that was with a service contract.
If I recall correctly the Nokia N8?s 12Mpx camera does uses image sensors that are the same size as the iPhone 4 at 1/3.2? (1.4µm), which was an improvement over the previous iPhones with a 1/4? (1.75µm) sensors. Since it has 12 million v. 5 million the image sensor area is considerably larger, even if it?s using the smaller sensors than that. I can?t remark on the software?s ability and pulling up photos would be suggestive, as would be the conclusion as to whether it?s worth that feature, but a quick Google search should yield some comparisons.
It?s the 7Mpx cellphone cameras that I see as more of a marketing trick as they tend to use smaller image sensors packed into the same exact area as the 5Mpx cameras.
There is info about the camera and sensor over on the allaboutsymbian.com site as well as the Nokia conversations site. It is a bigger sensor. Not sure if it is the same size as the iPhones though.
Plain wrong with fanboy blinders one. The hardware on Nokia phones simply blows the iPhone out of the water as do most Android phones, however they are crippled by an OS that is well behind the intuitiveness of the iPhone. While they are behind from an OS or software prospective, they are up to date and even surpasses the iPhone on the hardware front.
Sheer power does not equal hardware.
Apple had a 1 year start with the iPhone and has a 1 year start with the iPad.
They are refining their hardware selections/designs when their competitors are releasing their first generation products.
Those figures are ridiculously conservative. 24 million in 2011 is 6 million a quarter. Demand for tablets would have probably had to plateau in Q410 for that to happen.
Personally I expect tablets to eventually displace laptops completely. There are children who have already been born who will never use a laptop. This is going to happen fast. Put an iPad in somebody's hands and they just get it. It's better. It's how computers were meant to be used. It's how they were envisioned by computer pioneers and science fiction authors.
I love my iPad, but I'm pretty taken aback by the 1080 playback... is that only with the HDMI out, or on the device itself? ....Also, an i5 chip??? Crikey!!!!
The Nokia N8?s 12Mpx camera does individual image sensors are the same size as the iPhone 4 at 1.75µm. Since it has 12 million v. 5 million individual image sensors its image sensor covers 2.4x the area. Even if it was using the smaller size sensors, like the 1.4µm found in the 3GS it would still be a larger image sensor.
I can?t remark on the software?s ability as I?ve never used it and pulling up photos would be suggestive, as would be the conclusion as to whether it?s worth that one feature, but a quick Google search should yield some comparisons of what I consider to be impressive pics from a phone? or is a camera with a phone.
But, are the pictures/video better from that camera? Impressive specs don't necessarily a great camera (or smartphone) make. That's my point: quoting specs doesn't equal "better" hardware. And, especially, if we assume the N8 camera is better, for the sake of argument, that also doesn't equal better hardware if it's one good component in a system that isn't otherwise great, as well as this definitely being a case where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
"Consumers didn't ask for tablets," Epps wrote in her summary last June. "In fact, Forrester's data shows that the top features consumers say they want in a PC are a complete mismatch with the features of the iPad."
One of the nicest examples I have seen of the fact that you should not base your designs on what users of current systems are telling you what they want.
Simple. I don't live in a myopic iOS only world. While I will most likely never own a high end Nokia smartphone again, I do acknowledge that they exist and I also give credit where credit is due. The N8 is not for me but for some. The camera is the best ever mounted in a smartphone and the feature set is quite impressive.
I don't think you have any idea what makes for good hardware, or any idea of what you are talking about.
it's funny, when I drop in, you can ALWAYS be sure anonymouse is busy with the same line "you have no idea what you're talking about blah blah.
Man. Someone needs some more fibre in their diet...
Anyway, it seems people are beginning to recognize that in mobile it's an extremely fast paced platform, and people are upgrading o a much faster schedule than say with PCs. I don't know too many people who have had their smartphones for much more than 2 years. Which means this has not only just begin, but things will rapidly change quite quickly. There are a lot of huge companies used to making hardware for windows, so it will be a matter of time before they all flood the market with ipad knock-offs. As long as apple keeps up this pace of staying ahead of the game, they'll always be a significant bite in the mobile space, though I doubt they'll continue to dominate the tablet numbers as they have so far.
I don't think you have any idea what makes for good hardware, or any idea of what you are talking about.
Calling all strawman. Strawmen, please bring your hyperbolic arguments to the checkout counter.
Please enlighten us with your all knowing knowledge about what makes for good hardware.
After using an N8 against the iPhone4 camera wise, I can say for sure that the N8 blows the iPhone4's camera away. There is simply no contest but you in your infinite wisdom and technology tower already know this. So again, please tell us what we should already know. Speak ole wise one. Disseminate to the masses and impart your wisdom.
One thing I can agree with you is the first part of your statement: "I don't think"
Comments
"Consumers didn't ask for tablets," Epps wrote in her summary last June.
They still don't.
They ask for iPads.
I think we both are right and the camera is a primary example of how Apple differs from other handset vendors. I think the difference is Apple, for better or for worse, is choosing not to put in a 12Mpx camera with huge lens that takes really great images into their slim iPhones, while other vendors may feel they have no choice but to compete on spec sheet features because they can?t compete well in the other areas.
That said, I think I have more hope for Nokia than you do.
Maybe so. Nokia's "sold out" announcement for the N8 was a bit misleading. Yes they sold out but only in Nokia shops. Nokia waited 2 to 4 weeks before they released the phone to the carriers. So, yes they sold out but at the carrier level you can go and get an N8, but iPhones are sold out. Literally.
If they are, "crippled by an OS that is well behind the intuitiveness of the iPhone," how can you be sure the hardware is so great?
I don't really pay attention to Nokia (they are irrelevant as far as smartphones go at this point) but I haven't seen any Android phones with hardware that, "simply blows the iPhone out of the water."
Simple. I don't live in a myopic iOS only world. While I will most likely never own a high end Nokia smartphone again, I do acknowledge that they exist and I also give credit where credit is due. The N8 is not for me but for some. The camera is the best ever mounted in a smartphone and the feature set is quite impressive.
Unless there's some sort of price drop, it doesn't seem likely that people will jump to replace a $500-800 device every year.
Here's hoping that there WILL be a price drop!
My reasons to believe that the price will drop (~$100?)
1) Apple has tons of reserve cash and may favor unit sales versus profit margin (get the devices out there and dominate the market)
2) The first-gen iPad has sold many units, allowing for thinner profit margins per unit and economies of scale.
3) Apple may wish to continue their momentum against the competition by being aggressive on the price. Recreate their success with the iPod, where a ~70% market share made "iPod" synonymous with MP3 player.
4) Even the uber-elite iPhone dropped some $200 from 2007 to 2008. Then again, that was with a service contract.
If I recall correctly the Nokia N8?s 12Mpx camera does uses image sensors that are the same size as the iPhone 4 at 1/3.2? (1.4µm), which was an improvement over the previous iPhones with a 1/4? (1.75µm) sensors. Since it has 12 million v. 5 million the image sensor area is considerably larger, even if it?s using the smaller sensors than that. I can?t remark on the software?s ability and pulling up photos would be suggestive, as would be the conclusion as to whether it?s worth that feature, but a quick Google search should yield some comparisons.
It?s the 7Mpx cellphone cameras that I see as more of a marketing trick as they tend to use smaller image sensors packed into the same exact area as the 5Mpx cameras.
There is info about the camera and sensor over on the allaboutsymbian.com site as well as the Nokia conversations site. It is a bigger sensor. Not sure if it is the same size as the iPhones though.
Plain wrong with fanboy blinders one. The hardware on Nokia phones simply blows the iPhone out of the water as do most Android phones, however they are crippled by an OS that is well behind the intuitiveness of the iPhone. While they are behind from an OS or software prospective, they are up to date and even surpasses the iPhone on the hardware front.
Sheer power does not equal hardware.
Apple had a 1 year start with the iPhone and has a 1 year start with the iPad.
They are refining their hardware selections/designs when their competitors are releasing their first generation products.
Personally I expect tablets to eventually displace laptops completely. There are children who have already been born who will never use a laptop. This is going to happen fast. Put an iPad in somebody's hands and they just get it. It's better. It's how computers were meant to be used. It's how they were envisioned by computer pioneers and science fiction authors.
Who wants to see what Asus is bringing to the table[t]?
Interesting, S. But looks a little "Dell-ish" to me. I'm sure they have some good ideas that Apple can improve upon.
Sorry if the above sounds a bit churlish....don't mean to sound like a fanboi but I'm a bit jaded when it comes to the PC/Windows world's offerings!
Best
Agreed, if my GF was nicer to me, I would get her an iPhone 4 and an iPad!
She's out right now with her "best friend."
I never did like that guy!
Who's her "best friend?" John McCain? You could do worse...
"What I love about the iPad success story is that tons of pros/geeks simply did not get. But wife/girl friend/daughter immediately did."
So Dick, is Lucy your wife or is she your GF? Inquiring minds want to know. And where does Ms. Jolly fit into this?
Who's her "best friend?" John McCain? You could do worse...
Yep, no problem, I would just make her take a shower...
Who wants to see what Asus is bringing to the table[t]?
I love my iPad, but I'm pretty taken aback by the 1080 playback... is that only with the HDMI out, or on the device itself? ....Also, an i5 chip??? Crikey!!!!
Agreed, if my GF was nicer to me, I would get her an iPhone 4 and an iPad!
She's out right now with her "best friend."
I never did like that guy!
Damn. Then I'll have to buy mine an Aston Martin.
The Nokia N8?s 12Mpx camera does individual image sensors are the same size as the iPhone 4 at 1.75µm. Since it has 12 million v. 5 million individual image sensors its image sensor covers 2.4x the area. Even if it was using the smaller size sensors, like the 1.4µm found in the 3GS it would still be a larger image sensor.
I can?t remark on the software?s ability as I?ve never used it and pulling up photos would be suggestive, as would be the conclusion as to whether it?s worth that one feature, but a quick Google search should yield some comparisons of what I consider to be impressive pics from a phone? or is a camera with a phone.
But, are the pictures/video better from that camera? Impressive specs don't necessarily a great camera (or smartphone) make. That's my point: quoting specs doesn't equal "better" hardware. And, especially, if we assume the N8 camera is better, for the sake of argument, that also doesn't equal better hardware if it's one good component in a system that isn't otherwise great, as well as this definitely being a case where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
"Consumers didn't ask for tablets," Epps wrote in her summary last June. "In fact, Forrester's data shows that the top features consumers say they want in a PC are a complete mismatch with the features of the iPad."
One of the nicest examples I have seen of the fact that you should not base your designs on what users of current systems are telling you what they want.
"Wisdom of the crowds". Sure.
So Dick, is Lucy your wife or is she your GF? Inquiring minds want to know. And where does Ms. Jolly fit into this?
Hey Tod,
Ms Jolly was part of the CP family.
Lucy is my friend, my wife and the love of my life.
I am honored that, to many of the people that knew us at Computer Plus -- I was known as Mr. Lucy.
Lucy died, suddenly, peacefully, on Feb 18, 2001 of a seizure disorder.
We had 35 1/2 wonderful years.
Because we retired early (ages 50, 48), we got to play and enjoy each other for more than 10 wonderful years.
It is an amazing experience to start each day saying and hearing "I love you" and, during the day-- to make each other laugh.
.
Simple. I don't live in a myopic iOS only world. While I will most likely never own a high end Nokia smartphone again, I do acknowledge that they exist and I also give credit where credit is due. The N8 is not for me but for some. The camera is the best ever mounted in a smartphone and the feature set is quite impressive.
I don't think you have any idea what makes for good hardware, or any idea of what you are talking about.
Man. Someone needs some more fibre in their diet...
Anyway, it seems people are beginning to recognize that in mobile it's an extremely fast paced platform, and people are upgrading o a much faster schedule than say with PCs. I don't know too many people who have had their smartphones for much more than 2 years. Which means this has not only just begin, but things will rapidly change quite quickly. There are a lot of huge companies used to making hardware for windows, so it will be a matter of time before they all flood the market with ipad knock-offs. As long as apple keeps up this pace of staying ahead of the game, they'll always be a significant bite in the mobile space, though I doubt they'll continue to dominate the tablet numbers as they have so far.
I don't think you have any idea what makes for good hardware, or any idea of what you are talking about.
Calling all strawman. Strawmen, please bring your hyperbolic arguments to the checkout counter.
Please enlighten us with your all knowing knowledge about what makes for good hardware.
After using an N8 against the iPhone4 camera wise, I can say for sure that the N8 blows the iPhone4's camera away. There is simply no contest but you in your infinite wisdom and technology tower already know this. So again, please tell us what we should already know. Speak ole wise one. Disseminate to the masses and impart your wisdom.
One thing I can agree with you is the first part of your statement: "I don't think"