That?s a short sighted answer. Only someone who is in the RDF would imply that Apple can get anything they want, whenever they want, and as much as they want.
The unfortunate truth is there are very real limitations in the physical and on time so to suggest that consumer interest in Apple?s products couldn?t possibly exceed what they can manufacture at a given time is not seeing the big picture.
You're 100% correct. It is Forecasting, after all. Management's best guess, backed up (sometimes) by mathematical models.
Too much supply costs money. Too little costs sales. The goal is to get it 100% correct.
FYI, multi-billion dollar companies make wrong guesses all the time. Microsoft: Vista. Intel: Itanium. Apple: the cube. Steve Jobs at NeXT: the NeXT Cube.
If I had to pick a forecasting error, I'd pick being short a bit. With Apple, it does seem to make their kit more precious.
Unlike the Bank CEOs who got bonuses for making bad choices and running the economy into the ground, I feel Apple execs actually deserve to get hefty bonuses. Job well done.
"Since rejoining the company in 1997, Mr. Jobs has not sold any of his shares of the Company's stock," the filing reads.
I don't think this is correct. I seem to remember Jobs dumping all of the stock he received from the sale of NeXT to Apple as soon as he legally could. Back when it was around $$13 per share.
"Since rejoining the company in 1997, Mr. Jobs has not sold any of his shares of the Company's stock," the filing reads.
I don't think this is correct. I seem to remember Jobs dumping all of the stock he received from the sale of NeXT to Apple as soon as he legally could. Back when it was around $$13 per share.
Seems hard to imagine that Apple would misstate this fact in an official document filed with the SEC. I remember there was a conversion of stock to options or something - it was brought up in the options backdating incident.
Do people still seriously believe that a multi billion dollar company couldn't get its shit together in terms of supply and easily meet consumer demand?
You obviously have no idea how difficult it is to manufacture state-of-the-art products. They use the latest available technology and go from there. Try planing manufacturing for just one cutting edge state-of-the-art product that goes from selling 0 per month to millions in the first month of release. See if you could be half as successful pulling off what Apple has with multiple state-of-the-art products.
Just my opinion, but I wonder what the average Apple employee receives as an annual salary increase. 30-40 years ago most employees would see their salary double around an average of ten years. A blue collar worker making 20k would make about 40k after ten years, whereas an white collar worker would see their 80k salary double to 160k. I don't have a problem with an individual making a great salary, as long as it doesn't cost associates below him a fair annual increase. The big debate is if that's the case.
Some people make a lot of money. Some don't. Some deserve every penny. Some don't.
You're concerned about Cook's big payday. I'm not.
Not sure what the Two more swings and Ayn Rand comments were about, but I suppose they are your way of coping with dissent. Life goes on! ;-)
It's my way of pointing out that you have completely ignored what I have actually said. The Rand reference is to your simplistic argument that only "sour grapes" can explain the concerns that many have on this issue. I guess that is the way you cope with difficult questions.
It's my way of pointing out that you have completely ignored what I have actually said. The Rand reference is to your simplistic argument that only "sour grapes" can explain the concerns that many have on this issue. I guess that is the way you cope with difficult questions.
$59 million in fruitful stock appreciation is not unreasonable in this case.
I merely pointed out that fretting over it is unreasonable, IMO.
Simplistic? Yes. Some things are. Some things aren't.
... Yes, Apple is Steve's vision, but the highly talented help him pull off that vision.
I think that is a very important point for people to keep in mind. While I don't doubt that Steve Jobs is a very intelligent CEO, he doesn't just snap his fingers and magically manifest some of the greatest software and hardware ever made. It is his ability to inspire and motivate thousands of designers and engineers to do amazing work that makes him who he is.
I think that is a very important point for people to keep in mind. While I don't doubt that Steve Jobs is a very intelligent CEO, he doesn't just snap his fingers and magically manifest some of the greatest software and hardware ever made. It is his ability to inspire and motivate thousands of designers and engineers to do amazing work that makes him who he is.
I wish more people would recognize this.
Jobs clearly has many talents as a leader and as a marketer. But Apple has many capable people who make the company as successful as it it. A gifted conductor still needs a capable orchestra to play the symphony.
$59 million in fruitful stock appreciation is not unreasonable in this case.
I merely pointed out that fretting over it is unreasonable, IMO.
Simplistic? Yes. Some things are. Some things aren't.
Another swing and a miss. You might not whiff so much if you at least attempted to respond to something I've actually said, instead of trying to tell me what I believe. A novel concept perhaps, but worth a try.
blah yadda etc. his accomplishments STILL don't amount to 59M. that number is BEYOND excessive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anwerman
Having an MBA doesn't make a person a business expert any more than having a teaching degree makes one a great teacher.
What Cook did was amazing. Steve had to leave Apple at a time when it's stock was down to less than $80 a share. Many were afraid Steve would not be coming back because of ongoing health issues. Investors were scared to even invest with Apple at that time.
Cook set up a world-wide manufacturing process that made Apple even stronger than it had been with Steve. The connections he made with so many manufacturing facilities so easily and so readily gave Apple the opportunity it needed to remain healthy while Jobs was away. It also provided the opportunity for Apple to thrive now that Steve is back.
Anyone competent? There might have only been a half a dozen people in the whole world who could have pulled off what he did. Investors didn't panic and Apple has now grown into the number one tech company in the world.
Yes, Apple is Steve's vision, but the highly talented help him pull off that vision.
Cook deserved what he made and there are millions of shareholders who are glad he was as good as he was.
blah yadda etc. his accomplishments STILL don't amount to 59M. that number is BEYOND excessive.
it?s funny to read how this product is too high and this person makes too much when there is no other data points given as to why they feel this way.
In business, there are very real reasons why someone is paid a certain amount and why a product is priced a certain way. Apple?s goal is to maximize profits. If they lose Tim Cook to another company because he?s not being paid as much as other companies value him and this causes Apple to lose money to an extent that exceeds his salary then Apple would have messed up.
It?s also funny to read how people who work harder should get paid more. That janitor who is cleaning out trashcans and bathrooms all day should get paid more than a CEO who sits behind a cushy desk tell people what to do. That?s pretty foolish, too.
So what exactly are his accomplishments. Since you?ve deemed a fixed amount too high you must have a handle on exactly what his accomplishments are. How much are his accomplishments worth?
Comments
I am shareholder and I am concerned. And it hasn't got anything to do with grapes, sour or otherwise.
You're concerned about a top-performing superstar who's increased your net worth mightily getting a tiny fraction of shares?
Wow.... your standards are out of the stratosphere. I'm also a shareholder and kiss the ground the executive team walks on.
When my net worth gets slammed by half, then I'll protest.
You're concerned about a top-performing superstar who's increased your net worth mightily getting a tiny fraction of shares?
Wow.... your standards are out of the stratosphere. I'm also a shareholder and kiss the ground the executive team walks on.
When my net worth gets slammed by half, then I'll protest.
So you get to invent my standards? Nice.
Believe it or not, we're not living in an Ayn Rand novel.
That?s a short sighted answer. Only someone who is in the RDF would imply that Apple can get anything they want, whenever they want, and as much as they want.
The unfortunate truth is there are very real limitations in the physical and on time so to suggest that consumer interest in Apple?s products couldn?t possibly exceed what they can manufacture at a given time is not seeing the big picture.
You're 100% correct. It is Forecasting, after all. Management's best guess, backed up (sometimes) by mathematical models.
Too much supply costs money. Too little costs sales. The goal is to get it 100% correct.
FYI, multi-billion dollar companies make wrong guesses all the time. Microsoft: Vista. Intel: Itanium. Apple: the cube. Steve Jobs at NeXT: the NeXT Cube.
If I had to pick a forecasting error, I'd pick being short a bit. With Apple, it does seem to make their kit more precious.
So you get to invent my standards? Nice.
Believe it or not, we're not living in an Ayn Rand novel.
No, they are your standards. I'm commenting on them. Sorry to hit a nerve.
How much of Disney does he own again?
No, they are your standards. I'm commenting on them. Sorry to hit a nerve.
Two more swings and two more misses.
Of course you could try to respond to the issues I raised, but somehow I doubt you will make the effort.
Two more swings and two more misses.
Of course you could try to respond to the issues I raised, but somehow I doubt you will make the effort.
Some people make a lot of money. Some don't. Some deserve every penny. Some don't.
You're concerned about Cook's big payday. I'm not.
Not sure what the Two more swings and Ayn Rand comments were about, but I suppose they are your way of coping with dissent. Life goes on! ;-)
He was compensated for his value to the company, not what he did.
And what is his value to the company based on? It's based ONLY on what he did.
I don't think this is correct. I seem to remember Jobs dumping all of the stock he received from the sale of NeXT to Apple as soon as he legally could. Back when it was around $$13 per share.
"Since rejoining the company in 1997, Mr. Jobs has not sold any of his shares of the Company's stock," the filing reads.
I don't think this is correct. I seem to remember Jobs dumping all of the stock he received from the sale of NeXT to Apple as soon as he legally could. Back when it was around $$13 per share.
Seems hard to imagine that Apple would misstate this fact in an official document filed with the SEC. I remember there was a conversion of stock to options or something - it was brought up in the options backdating incident.
Do people still seriously believe that a multi billion dollar company couldn't get its shit together in terms of supply and easily meet consumer demand?
You obviously have no idea how difficult it is to manufacture state-of-the-art products. They use the latest available technology and go from there. Try planing manufacturing for just one cutting edge state-of-the-art product that goes from selling 0 per month to millions in the first month of release. See if you could be half as successful pulling off what Apple has with multiple state-of-the-art products.
Some people make a lot of money. Some don't. Some deserve every penny. Some don't.
You're concerned about Cook's big payday. I'm not.
Not sure what the Two more swings and Ayn Rand comments were about, but I suppose they are your way of coping with dissent. Life goes on! ;-)
It's my way of pointing out that you have completely ignored what I have actually said. The Rand reference is to your simplistic argument that only "sour grapes" can explain the concerns that many have on this issue. I guess that is the way you cope with difficult questions.
It's my way of pointing out that you have completely ignored what I have actually said. The Rand reference is to your simplistic argument that only "sour grapes" can explain the concerns that many have on this issue. I guess that is the way you cope with difficult questions.
$59 million in fruitful stock appreciation is not unreasonable in this case.
I merely pointed out that fretting over it is unreasonable, IMO.
Simplistic? Yes. Some things are. Some things aren't.
... Yes, Apple is Steve's vision, but the highly talented help him pull off that vision.
I think that is a very important point for people to keep in mind. While I don't doubt that Steve Jobs is a very intelligent CEO, he doesn't just snap his fingers and magically manifest some of the greatest software and hardware ever made. It is his ability to inspire and motivate thousands of designers and engineers to do amazing work that makes him who he is.
I think that is a very important point for people to keep in mind. While I don't doubt that Steve Jobs is a very intelligent CEO, he doesn't just snap his fingers and magically manifest some of the greatest software and hardware ever made. It is his ability to inspire and motivate thousands of designers and engineers to do amazing work that makes him who he is.
I wish more people would recognize this.
Jobs clearly has many talents as a leader and as a marketer. But Apple has many capable people who make the company as successful as it it. A gifted conductor still needs a capable orchestra to play the symphony.
$59 million in fruitful stock appreciation is not unreasonable in this case.
I merely pointed out that fretting over it is unreasonable, IMO.
Simplistic? Yes. Some things are. Some things aren't.
Another swing and a miss. You might not whiff so much if you at least attempted to respond to something I've actually said, instead of trying to tell me what I believe. A novel concept perhaps, but worth a try.
Having an MBA doesn't make a person a business expert any more than having a teaching degree makes one a great teacher.
What Cook did was amazing. Steve had to leave Apple at a time when it's stock was down to less than $80 a share. Many were afraid Steve would not be coming back because of ongoing health issues. Investors were scared to even invest with Apple at that time.
Cook set up a world-wide manufacturing process that made Apple even stronger than it had been with Steve. The connections he made with so many manufacturing facilities so easily and so readily gave Apple the opportunity it needed to remain healthy while Jobs was away. It also provided the opportunity for Apple to thrive now that Steve is back.
Anyone competent? There might have only been a half a dozen people in the whole world who could have pulled off what he did. Investors didn't panic and Apple has now grown into the number one tech company in the world.
Yes, Apple is Steve's vision, but the highly talented help him pull off that vision.
Cook deserved what he made and there are millions of shareholders who are glad he was as good as he was.
blah yadda etc. his accomplishments STILL don't amount to 59M. that number is BEYOND excessive.
it?s funny to read how this product is too high and this person makes too much when there is no other data points given as to why they feel this way.
In business, there are very real reasons why someone is paid a certain amount and why a product is priced a certain way. Apple?s goal is to maximize profits. If they lose Tim Cook to another company because he?s not being paid as much as other companies value him and this causes Apple to lose money to an extent that exceeds his salary then Apple would have messed up.
It?s also funny to read how people who work harder should get paid more. That janitor who is cleaning out trashcans and bathrooms all day should get paid more than a CEO who sits behind a cushy desk tell people what to do. That?s pretty foolish, too.
So what exactly are his accomplishments. Since you?ve deemed a fixed amount too high you must have a handle on exactly what his accomplishments are. How much are his accomplishments worth?