the future is a kinect type interface. i shouldn't have to touch anything to navigate on the tele.
That would certainly be neat. That technology is far more interesting than using an iPhone, Magic Trackpad, etc... You don't want to have to look at the device. Using your hands would be very appealing.
There is definitely a problem with the controlling device and ATV apps. I don't think segmenting ATV users by having different bundled remote devices is wise. The market is already small. AirPlay is a step in the right direction.
The Kodak Media Player and Wii have neat controllers. Not as cool as the kinect approach, but also not as expensive. You also don't want yet another thing hanging from the TV as you need withe the Wii and kinect.
For now, AirPlay is probably what we will continue to see evolve on the ATV. I don't see apps appearing for quite some time.
How do envision the common remote functions (channel up/down, volume up/down, view guide, play, pause, mute, skip forward/back etc) working with a Magic Trackpad.
I was in a hurry and didn't give your question the answer it deserves... let me try again.
Here's an example of one way to handle remote functions with a no-look Magic Trackpad -- semi-transparent popups on the TV screen show what's happening and reinforce your action,
Anywhere on the trackpad:
-- Last Channel cycle: two-finger press-hold-release
-- Mute/UnMute: two-finger tap
-- Pause/Play: one-finger tap
-- Volume up/down: one-finger press-drag
-- Channel up/down: two-finger press drag *
All other: 1-finger press and hold:
-- brings up menu system for guide and all other functions and/or AV Player controls on TV screen (patterned after iPad)
-- sticky [box] cursor remains on last-selected control
-- 1-finger press-drag (swipe) manipulates selected control
-- 2-finger press-drag repositions sticky cursor to new control
* I find on almost any remote attached to cable that channel up/down has no anticipatable meaning -- other than I have hit the wrong button
These are off the top of my head. Much thought should be given to make the gestures consistent and intuitive within the entire iOS device family -- so that the non-screen touch pad works the same as an iPhone, Touch or iPad Remote app -- and, like on the iPad, the TV UI doesn't get between you and your [TV] stuff.
You could envision the TV screen with a layout and controls similar to an iPad, except:
-- you don't touch the TV screen, you touch a no look trackpad
-- you have some separate means to manipulate a sticky cursor
-- you have some separate means to manipulate the control selected by the sticky cursor
I do believe Apple can find a way to do this that doesn't diminish the advantage of a touch screen, yet works equally as well with a touch pad or even a mouse.
The important thing is that the UI for the TV is the same as the UI for the iPad (nee iPhone).
The old "Click and Point**" interface just isn't good enough anymore.
** The way an Apple middle manager (to remain unnamed) referred to the Mac UI in the late 1980's.
This will work for the most basic of games but Apple needs a solution that provides visible "hot spots" on the remote much like game console remote buttons for more advanced gameplay.
I don't believe you want to take your eyes off the TV screen to look at the remote.
The track pad could recognize, say, the positions of your 2 thumbs -- and treat those as hotspots.
There is no rule that says the surface of the trackpad needs to be smooth -- it could have bumps, grooves, nipples, dimples, etc.
There is no rule that the track pad has to be square and flat.
There is no rule that says the only the front surface of the trackpad is multitouch.
Here's an example of one way to handle remote functions with a no-look Magic Trackpad... <snip>
Variable buttons on a touch surface don't work at all - but no look gestures... I think that might work.
The only problem would be it that it loses the intuitiveness factor that people expect from Apple products. Maybe it could have a "smart tutorial" that recognized when the user didn't know what they were doing and popped up a screen overlay to help them out. Just as long as it didn't look like this guy!
I don't believe you want to take your eyes off the TV screen to look at the remote.
The track pad could recognize, say, the positions of your 2 thumbs -- and treat those as hotspots.
There is no rule that says the surface of the trackpad needs to be smooth -- it could have bumps, grooves, nipples, dimples, etc.
There is no rule that the track pad has to be square and flat.
There is no rule that says the only the front surface of the trackpad is multitouch.
I think the fatal flaw here is usability. If your display is going to be a a huge vertical TV several feet in front of you then having something like Magic Trackpad is going to be ineffective and cumbersome. You'll need a device with touch capabilities that feels comfortable when gripped with one hand.
Also, the "boxcar cursor" will likely be the fallback for input with HEC appliance with simple controllers, but I wonder if taking a multiple-touch panel and having you move you finger around like it's a desktop OS will be frustrating. Trying to input a 32 character password into an AppleTV over Xmas was a bit tiresome with the supplied remote control. I can't imagine a trackpad would be any faster and possibly more when you can't click a directional pad n-spaces with the same accuracy. I think a virtual output of a keyboard, RW/Play/Pause/FF, et al. would be more useful.
I agree that your focus is the TV, not the remote, but we do look the remote, even if to get our barring to mindlessly press buttons while starring glassy-eyed and slackjawed at the TV for hours on end while everyone else in the room is annoyed that you can't stay on a channel for more than 30 seconds.
But there are times when being able to se the controls are useful. This becomes even more needed when all the buttons are virtual.
I think the fatal flaw here is usability. If your display is going to be a a huge vertical TV several feet in front of you then having something like Magic Trackpad is going to be ineffective and cumbersome. You'll need a device with touch capabilities that feels comfortable when gripped with one hand.
Also, the "boxcar cursor" will likely be the fallback for input with HEC appliance with simple controllers, but I wonder if taking a multiple-touch panel and having you move you finger around like it's a desktop OS will be frustrating. Trying to input a 32 character password into an AppleTV over Xmas was a bit tiresome with the supplied remote control. I can't imagine a trackpad would be any faster and possibly more when you can't click a directional pad n-spaces with the same accuracy. I think a virtual output of a keyboard, RW/Play/Pause/FF, et al. would be more useful.
I agree that your focus is the TV, not the remote, but we do look the remote, even if to get our barring to mindlessly press buttons while starring glassy-eyed and slackjawed at the TV for hours on end while everyone else in the room is annoyed that you can't stay on a channel for more than 30 seconds.
But there are times when being able to se the controls are useful. This becomes even more needed when all the buttons are virtual.
I can't argue with any of that -- especially asking others to leave the room while you laboriously enter a user name and password.
Agreed that an iPad or iPhone or Touch would be the preferred device when/if available.
I am trying to look at this from the perspective of a potential buyer of the ATV and a cheap remote to play games.
If Apple can make a comfortable, intuitive, no-look, hand-held remote priced at, say, $29 -- it gets them in the door (living room).
Then, games that take advantage of iDevice features like a gyroscope will drive sales/use of an iDevice as a remote -- so you've pissed away $29, it got you where you (and Apple) wanted you to go.
Wait, what? Your iTunes account has a 32 character password? That seems like..... a lot? Do you have state secret pod casts on there?
I use 1Password to generate and save unique, complex passwords. Some growing pains to get it set up but now I find it an indispensable tool. It syncs them all between Windows, Mac OS and iOS.
Their televisions are nothing but cheap crap no matter what technology they bring in. My recommendation to everyone would be - stay away from Samsung if you are looking for quality product. Though Pioneer KUROs are still the king but no longer available. Panasonic is the way to go otherwise Sharp and Sony would be the last I would say.
This was refreshing. I wished I could read every post, but i have to go back to work... But I'll be back.The titan roms were pretty easy to figure out! led watch
You push what works for you. If it's a TV, then it's the Center of your Universe. It's your "hub".
You stop becoming a "me too" company when you stop copying. All these iPad-killers all look like the iPad. Aren't there other colors and materials for a tablet besides black, chrome, rounded edges and glass? What Samsung should do to push their "hub" is to give away their Tab with every TV, washing machine, DVD player, whatever. That would sell product and get a leg up on Apple. I just read how Sony is pushing to be Number 2 to Apple's iPad. Apple's iPad is unbeatable. All these giveaway Tabs would link back to the Samsung TV "Hub". That would be great for Samsung and Adobe.
The new Apple AppStore is amazing.
Apps download and install like a dream. The store itself is well designed- cleaner and better than MacUpdate.com! I'll bet an AppStore for AppleTV is already done. Who's to say you won't be able to use that flat screen TV you got for Christmas to use Aperture on your Holiday photos or use Pages and Keynote to edit your company newsletter or create slides for your next business presentation. All you need is a keyboard.
Comments
the future is a kinect type interface. i shouldn't have to touch anything to navigate on the tele.
That would certainly be neat. That technology is far more interesting than using an iPhone, Magic Trackpad, etc... You don't want to have to look at the device. Using your hands would be very appealing.
There is definitely a problem with the controlling device and ATV apps. I don't think segmenting ATV users by having different bundled remote devices is wise. The market is already small. AirPlay is a step in the right direction.
The Kodak Media Player and Wii have neat controllers. Not as cool as the kinect approach, but also not as expensive. You also don't want yet another thing hanging from the TV as you need withe the Wii and kinect.
For now, AirPlay is probably what we will continue to see evolve on the ATV. I don't see apps appearing for quite some time.
philip
How do envision the common remote functions (channel up/down, volume up/down, view guide, play, pause, mute, skip forward/back etc) working with a Magic Trackpad.
I was in a hurry and didn't give your question the answer it deserves... let me try again.
Here's an example of one way to handle remote functions with a no-look Magic Trackpad -- semi-transparent popups on the TV screen show what's happening and reinforce your action,
Anywhere on the trackpad:
-- Last Channel cycle: two-finger press-hold-release
-- Mute/UnMute: two-finger tap
-- Pause/Play: one-finger tap
-- Volume up/down: one-finger press-drag
-- Channel up/down: two-finger press drag *
All other: 1-finger press and hold:
-- brings up menu system for guide and all other functions and/or AV Player controls on TV screen (patterned after iPad)
-- sticky [box] cursor remains on last-selected control
-- 1-finger press-drag (swipe) manipulates selected control
-- 2-finger press-drag repositions sticky cursor to new control
* I find on almost any remote attached to cable that channel up/down has no anticipatable meaning -- other than I have hit the wrong button
These are off the top of my head. Much thought should be given to make the gestures consistent and intuitive within the entire iOS device family -- so that the non-screen touch pad works the same as an iPhone, Touch or iPad Remote app -- and, like on the iPad, the TV UI doesn't get between you and your [TV] stuff.
You could envision the TV screen with a layout and controls similar to an iPad, except:
-- you don't touch the TV screen, you touch a no look trackpad
-- you have some separate means to manipulate a sticky cursor
-- you have some separate means to manipulate the control selected by the sticky cursor
I do believe Apple can find a way to do this that doesn't diminish the advantage of a touch screen, yet works equally as well with a touch pad or even a mouse.
The important thing is that the UI for the TV is the same as the UI for the iPad (nee iPhone).
The old "Click and Point**" interface just isn't good enough anymore.
** The way an Apple middle manager (to remain unnamed) referred to the Mac UI in the late 1980's.
the future is a kinect type interface. i shouldn't have to touch anything to navigate on the tele.
What if there is more than one person in range -- similar problem to voice control.
This will work for the most basic of games but Apple needs a solution that provides visible "hot spots" on the remote much like game console remote buttons for more advanced gameplay.
I don't believe you want to take your eyes off the TV screen to look at the remote.
The track pad could recognize, say, the positions of your 2 thumbs -- and treat those as hotspots.
There is no rule that says the surface of the trackpad needs to be smooth -- it could have bumps, grooves, nipples, dimples, etc.
There is no rule that the track pad has to be square and flat.
There is no rule that says the only the front surface of the trackpad is multitouch.
Here's an example of one way to handle remote functions with a no-look Magic Trackpad... <snip>
Variable buttons on a touch surface don't work at all - but no look gestures... I think that might work.
The only problem would be it that it loses the intuitiveness factor that people expect from Apple products. Maybe it could have a "smart tutorial" that recognized when the user didn't know what they were doing and popped up a screen overlay to help them out. Just as long as it didn't look like this guy!
What if there is more than one person in range -- similar problem to voice control.
command gesture? command gesture tells it that you are taking control/input whatever.
I don't believe you want to take your eyes off the TV screen to look at the remote.
The track pad could recognize, say, the positions of your 2 thumbs -- and treat those as hotspots.
There is no rule that says the surface of the trackpad needs to be smooth -- it could have bumps, grooves, nipples, dimples, etc.
There is no rule that the track pad has to be square and flat.
There is no rule that says the only the front surface of the trackpad is multitouch.
All good points.
I don't believe you want to take your eyes off the TV screen to look at the remote.
The track pad could recognize, say, the positions of your 2 thumbs -- and treat those as hotspots.
There is no rule that says the surface of the trackpad needs to be smooth -- it could have bumps, grooves, nipples, dimples, etc.
There is no rule that the track pad has to be square and flat.
There is no rule that says the only the front surface of the trackpad is multitouch.
I think the fatal flaw here is usability. If your display is going to be a a huge vertical TV several feet in front of you then having something like Magic Trackpad is going to be ineffective and cumbersome. You'll need a device with touch capabilities that feels comfortable when gripped with one hand.
Also, the "boxcar cursor" will likely be the fallback for input with HEC appliance with simple controllers, but I wonder if taking a multiple-touch panel and having you move you finger around like it's a desktop OS will be frustrating. Trying to input a 32 character password into an AppleTV over Xmas was a bit tiresome with the supplied remote control. I can't imagine a trackpad would be any faster and possibly more when you can't click a directional pad n-spaces with the same accuracy. I think a virtual output of a keyboard, RW/Play/Pause/FF, et al. would be more useful.
I agree that your focus is the TV, not the remote, but we do look the remote, even if to get our barring to mindlessly press buttons while starring glassy-eyed and slackjawed at the TV for hours on end while everyone else in the room is annoyed that you can't stay on a channel for more than 30 seconds.
But there are times when being able to se the controls are useful. This becomes even more needed when all the buttons are virtual.
I think the fatal flaw here is usability. If your display is going to be a a huge vertical TV several feet in front of you then having something like Magic Trackpad is going to be ineffective and cumbersome. You'll need a device with touch capabilities that feels comfortable when gripped with one hand.
Also, the "boxcar cursor" will likely be the fallback for input with HEC appliance with simple controllers, but I wonder if taking a multiple-touch panel and having you move you finger around like it's a desktop OS will be frustrating. Trying to input a 32 character password into an AppleTV over Xmas was a bit tiresome with the supplied remote control. I can't imagine a trackpad would be any faster and possibly more when you can't click a directional pad n-spaces with the same accuracy. I think a virtual output of a keyboard, RW/Play/Pause/FF, et al. would be more useful.
I agree that your focus is the TV, not the remote, but we do look the remote, even if to get our barring to mindlessly press buttons while starring glassy-eyed and slackjawed at the TV for hours on end while everyone else in the room is annoyed that you can't stay on a channel for more than 30 seconds.
But there are times when being able to se the controls are useful. This becomes even more needed when all the buttons are virtual.
I can't argue with any of that -- especially asking others to leave the room while you laboriously enter a user name and password.
Agreed that an iPad or iPhone or Touch would be the preferred device when/if available.
I am trying to look at this from the perspective of a potential buyer of the ATV and a cheap remote to play games.
If Apple can make a comfortable, intuitive, no-look, hand-held remote priced at, say, $29 -- it gets them in the door (living room).
Then, games that take advantage of iDevice features like a gyroscope will drive sales/use of an iDevice as a remote -- so you've pissed away $29, it got you where you (and Apple) wanted you to go.
Trying to input a 32 character password into an AppleTV over Xmas was a bit tiresome with the supplied remote control.
Wait, what? Your iTunes account has a 32 character password? That seems like..... a lot? Do you have state secret pod casts on there?
Wait, what? Your iTunes account has a 32 character password? That seems like..... a lot? Do you have state secret pod casts on there?
I use 1Password to generate and save unique, complex passwords. Some growing pains to get it set up but now I find it an indispensable tool. It syncs them all between Windows, Mac OS and iOS.
I have no respect for Koreans. I can well imagine Yoon struggles every day.
SENT FROM MY PAD
Your comment was unnecessary. It's likely they have no respect for you, either.
You push what works for you. If it's a TV, then it's the Center of your Universe. It's your "hub".
You stop becoming a "me too" company when you stop copying. All these iPad-killers all look like the iPad. Aren't there other colors and materials for a tablet besides black, chrome, rounded edges and glass? What Samsung should do to push their "hub" is to give away their Tab with every TV, washing machine, DVD player, whatever. That would sell product and get a leg up on Apple. I just read how Sony is pushing to be Number 2 to Apple's iPad. Apple's iPad is unbeatable. All these giveaway Tabs would link back to the Samsung TV "Hub". That would be great for Samsung and Adobe.
The new Apple AppStore is amazing.
Apps download and install like a dream. The store itself is well designed- cleaner and better than MacUpdate.com! I'll bet an AppStore for AppleTV is already done. Who's to say you won't be able to use that flat screen TV you got for Christmas to use Aperture on your Holiday photos or use Pages and Keynote to edit your company newsletter or create slides for your next business presentation. All you need is a keyboard.
We don't need no stink'n Surfaces!
Samsung, Apple's got yer "hub"!
Thats nice, & i also i agree with you...