Japan's been planning a taxing proposal for money while in your possession, you don't think the US is waiting in the wings, after their skunkworks project?!:
Still not entirely sure why not using paper money is evil.
Also not seeing how this would be a more dangerous collection of personal information than say, Google's search engine, apps, and email client. (among other companies similar products I realize)
This country needs a new gold and silver backed currency -- we need competition in money, the Federal Reserve is a monopoly and is no more Federal than Federal Express!
You do realize there is already not enough paper money on this planet to pay off all the debt owed, right?
How is a gold standard going to help unless everyone starts over from zero and all debts are forgiven?
I wonder why he isn?t concerned about his cellphone always reporting his position. Big Brother is watching...
You need to knock this sh*t off. Trying to down play reality Is bad, and ignorant. what stake do you have in this? Are you being paid for being such an arrogant proponent of the loss of freedom and security? We don't gain anything from these "advances" as you would probably call them.
Libertyforall knows what he's talking about, he's just preaching to an incredibly uninformed group.
Then there are those like you who are somewhat informed, but pretend bad is good. You're worse than the people coming up with this crap, IMO.
I don't like it, but I'm well aware of it.
Big difference between that and acting like it's perfectly safe (like you ridiculously do).
You do realize there is already not enough paper money on this planet to pay off all the debt owed, right?
How is a gold standard going to help unless everyone starts over from zero and all debts are forgiven?
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
Yes, lord knows nobody had ever been in debt before they invented those damn computers.
Don't see this on the iPad 2. iPhone 5 will probably get this first. Mobile payments makes more sense for smartphones.
Defintely iPhone only for now.
The advantage this has over the visa model is that the iPhone's screen can be used to display the transaction amount securely and provide a simple "tap to confirm purchase" button. It could also generate electronic receipts so that businesses save on paper.
All they would have to do is slightly undermine Visa/Amex/MasterCard fees, make it plug and play and businesses would be on board.
The advantage this has over the visa model is that the iPhone's screen can be used to display the transaction amount securely and provide a simple "tap to confirm purchase" button. It could also generate electronic receipts so that businesses save on paper.
All they would have to do is slightly undermine Visa/Amex/MasterCard fees, make it plug and play and businesses would be on board.
I dont agree at all.
Remember the talk about running a business from an ipad?
NFC on an ipad would allow you to RECEIVE such transactions, no?
I’d think a PIN would be sufficient, just like at an ATM.
Wouldn’t that be faster and more secure than using a swiped CC for you which you sign your name?
Wouldn’t a lost phone that had a PIN to access encrypted card info be more secure than just an CC or an ATM card?
Wouldn’t it be easier to wipe a card number tied to a device than wiping a card number that is tied to a static piece of plastic?
Couldn’t this also lower retail clerk thefts by keeping CC numbers, the 3 digit security code and zip code from these oft low wage employees (or am I off base in thinking these employees are prone to theft)?
Doesn’t the NFC loop limit the data path to only a few inches, while looking or listening can be done over a much longer distance and even recorded?
With all the insurance that banks offer with cards I certainly don’t ever feel like my money is in jeopardy, though I do have a special CC for certain retail outlets.
You gotta think of it like this. The person whom you are trying to pay starts the connection. At that point they need you to authorize. It will show in the popup who they are, what the amount is, and some sort of transaction ID. At that point you put in your password (which is already attached to your Apple ID) and then it is done. Think of it something similar to an In-App purchase. Very simple, and very secure.
Now if we could only start using money that has actual, intrinsic value! We should skip all this and just move straight into planting chips into our arms and posting numbers on our foreheads like the Bible predicts..lol.
You gotta think of it like this. The person whom you are trying to pay starts the connection. At that point they need you to authorize. It will show in the popup who they are, what the amount is, and some sort of transaction ID. At that point you put in your password (which is already attached to your Apple ID) and then it is done. Think of it something similar to an In-App purchase. Very simple, and very secure.
That would be the way some transactions work.
However, there are other transactions that you can pre authorize by setting limits in the device (maximum amount, frequency. etc).
Then, you can wave the device at a vending machine or train station gate and the transaction occurs without any intervention by you or another person.
A similar transaction could be used to buy coffee or a magazine, etc. -- where the seller's POST is manned by a person:
-- The seller initiates the transaction through his POST
-- You wave your NFC device (or card) as payment
-- The seller's POST accepts payment (and optionally bumps a receipt)
-- The seller hands you your purchase
... a very efficient and minimalistic transaction -- no exchanging, physical media (cc or cash), no fumbling with a cash drawer, no manually scanning a cc, no stashing/exchanging cc and register receipts, no signature, etc.
Say you are a news stand or coffee stand with a limited number of items to sell (like that guy in grand central station).
The iPad2 (with NFC) is the seller's POST:
-- He rings the item(s) you buy by pressing a few buttons on the iPad
-- You wave your iPhone or cc as payment
-- The iPad and iPhone (or cc) connect to consumate the transaction
-- The iPad signals approval
-- The seller hands the buyer the goods
Wham, Bam -- thank you Ma'm!
That's it... It takes longer to explain than to do!
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are debt instruments by their very nature. FRNs are printed paper with no intrinsic value and nothing of value backing them. Its value is "faith based". You give me worthless paper in exchange for goods or services with the faith that I can rip off the next guy with it. A $5 dollar bill is worth the same as a $10 dollar bill because they are both rectangular pieces of paper, both of the same size. It's like taking an orange and writing a 10 on it; then calling it 10 oranges.
A dollar is not a thing, but the word dollar is a unit of measurement for precious metals like gold and silver. Saying you have 10 dollars is like saying I have 10 gallons. It is meaningless. However, we have been brainwashed from childhood to believe that this actually makes sense. We started out calling FRNs dollars because they were backed by gold. Then the government confiscated this gold and began printing more dollars than we had gold. Inflation was born! Now, the dollar is so worthless, that it takes about 1,400 FRNs to purchase a single ounce of gold, whereas it originally took just one.
There was a country I heard of once where their money became so worthless that they started burning it to keep warm. Continuously moving our currency into directions that are more easily "faked" or counterfeited will result in continued inflation, devaluation and eventually collapse.
I don't wear hats. I live in pure reality -- get educated -- learn what's going on around you...
Ignorance is NOT bliss.
Big brother is already watching you! They know where you go, what your doing, even what you're eating. They have already implanted a chip in you. Last time you went for a checkup and your dr did a prostate exam, do you think that was just his finger he shoved up your butt?
And who decided that this shiny rock you call gold should be the almighty determination of wealth. It just tells me that your arbitrarily set border contains more of this rock, or you have traded some colored paper, or some other kind of shiny rock to get it.
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are debt instruments by their very nature. FRNs are printed paper with no intrinsic value and nothing of value backing them. Its value is "faith based". You give me worthless paper in exchange for goods or services with the faith that I can rip off the next guy with it. A $5 dollar bill is worth the same as a $10 dollar bill because they are both rectangular pieces of paper, both of the same size. It's like taking an orange and writing a 10 on it; then calling it 10 oranges.
A dollar is not a thing, but the word dollar is a unit of measurement for precious metals like gold and silver. Saying you have 10 dollars is like saying I have 10 gallons. It is meaningless. However, we have been brainwashed from childhood to believe that this actually makes sense. We started out calling FRNs dollars because they were backed by gold. Then the government confiscated this gold and began printing more dollars than we had gold. Inflation was born! Now, the dollar is so worthless, that it takes about 1,400 FRNs to purchase a single ounce of gold, whereas it originally took just one.
There was a country I heard of once where their money became so worthless that they started burning it to keep warm. Continuously moving our currency into directions that are more easily "faked" or counterfeited will result in continued inflation, devaluation and eventually collapse.
And who decided that this shiny rock you call gold should be the almighty determination of wealth. It just tells me that your arbitrarily set border contains more of this rock, or you have traded some colored paper, or some other kind of shiny rock to get it.
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
And who decided that this shiny rock you call gold should be the almighty determination of wealth. It just tells me that your arbitrarily set border contains more of this rock, or you have traded some colored paper, or some other kind of shiny rock to get it.
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
Gold has maintained it's buying power for thousands of years. Thats not about to change anytime in the next few thousand.
First of all Nexus S DOES NOT have data transmission over NFC. All that Android can do with NFC is receive data. What this basically means is that in order to have payments through the phone you have to run the application from your SIM card. This will be the preferred and quite possibly the only way to do contactless payments in the first time however, what Google's decision also means is that there would be no killer NFC applications for Android any time soon. I honestly hope that Apple goes down the accelerometer route rather than bluetooth (as in does give full access to the NFC functionality).
Oh and for the dreamers out there that think Apple might deploy their own payment solution ... you have no idea what you are talking about. Becoming a payment/transaction processor/operator requires huge investment and I do mean huge with very little returns on investment. Considering the type of ROI that Apple is used to and that the investors expect from them, becoming a payment operator would be a huge mistake for Apple. Hence, they are not doing it. They might however, partner up with banks or other financial institutions or completely ignore the payment side of NFC. There are already multiple deals between banks and mobile operators to bring NFC payments to smart cards and there is very little that Apple can gain from entering that market.
Comments
Ignorance is NOT bliss.
Remove that tinfoil hat.
Well, the first part, the tracking RFID/NFC spychip in US Federal Reserve Notes:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html
Japan's been planning a taxing proposal for money while in your possession, you don't think the US is waiting in the wings, after their skunkworks project?!:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6531299.ece
Heck, Greece made ALL LARGE CASH TRANSACTIONS (>?1500) ILLEGAL:
http://dailyreckoning.com/greece-to-...tions-illegal/
Interesting.
Still not entirely sure why not using paper money is evil.
Also not seeing how this would be a more dangerous collection of personal information than say, Google's search engine, apps, and email client. (among other companies similar products I realize)
This country needs a new gold and silver backed currency -- we need competition in money, the Federal Reserve is a monopoly and is no more Federal than Federal Express!
You do realize there is already not enough paper money on this planet to pay off all the debt owed, right?
How is a gold standard going to help unless everyone starts over from zero and all debts are forgiven?
http://tinyurl.com/4oq6prx
Talk about Police State -- looks like a freaking concentration camp!
For context, from the 7/23/10 WSJ article referenced in the last above:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...#ixzz1C4NKbaan
I wonder why he isn?t concerned about his cellphone always reporting his position. Big Brother is watching...
You need to knock this sh*t off. Trying to down play reality Is bad, and ignorant. what stake do you have in this? Are you being paid for being such an arrogant proponent of the loss of freedom and security? We don't gain anything from these "advances" as you would probably call them.
Libertyforall knows what he's talking about, he's just preaching to an incredibly uninformed group.
Then there are those like you who are somewhat informed, but pretend bad is good. You're worse than the people coming up with this crap, IMO.
I don't like it, but I'm well aware of it.
Big difference between that and acting like it's perfectly safe (like you ridiculously do).
You do realize there is already not enough paper money on this planet to pay off all the debt owed, right?
How is a gold standard going to help unless everyone starts over from zero and all debts are forgiven?
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
Not me. I have voices in my head.
Maybe, but none of those voices belong to Declan McCullagh.
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
Yes, lord knows nobody had ever been in debt before they invented those damn computers.
Don't see this on the iPad 2. iPhone 5 will probably get this first. Mobile payments makes more sense for smartphones.
Defintely iPhone only for now.
The advantage this has over the visa model is that the iPhone's screen can be used to display the transaction amount securely and provide a simple "tap to confirm purchase" button. It could also generate electronic receipts so that businesses save on paper.
All they would have to do is slightly undermine Visa/Amex/MasterCard fees, make it plug and play and businesses would be on board.
Defintely iPhone only for now.
The advantage this has over the visa model is that the iPhone's screen can be used to display the transaction amount securely and provide a simple "tap to confirm purchase" button. It could also generate electronic receipts so that businesses save on paper.
All they would have to do is slightly undermine Visa/Amex/MasterCard fees, make it plug and play and businesses would be on board.
I dont agree at all.
Remember the talk about running a business from an ipad?
NFC on an ipad would allow you to RECEIVE such transactions, no?
I’d think a PIN would be sufficient, just like at an ATM.
- Wouldn’t that be faster and more secure than using a swiped CC for you which you sign your name?
- Wouldn’t a lost phone that had a PIN to access encrypted card info be more secure than just an CC or an ATM card?
- Wouldn’t it be easier to wipe a card number tied to a device than wiping a card number that is tied to a static piece of plastic?
- Couldn’t this also lower retail clerk thefts by keeping CC numbers, the 3 digit security code and zip code from these oft low wage employees (or am I off base in thinking these employees are prone to theft)?
- Doesn’t the NFC loop limit the data path to only a few inches, while looking or listening can be done over a much longer distance and even recorded?
With all the insurance that banks offer with cards I certainly don’t ever feel like my money is in jeopardy, though I do have a special CC for certain retail outlets.You gotta think of it like this. The person whom you are trying to pay starts the connection. At that point they need you to authorize. It will show in the popup who they are, what the amount is, and some sort of transaction ID. At that point you put in your password (which is already attached to your Apple ID) and then it is done. Think of it something similar to an In-App purchase. Very simple, and very secure.
You gotta think of it like this. The person whom you are trying to pay starts the connection. At that point they need you to authorize. It will show in the popup who they are, what the amount is, and some sort of transaction ID. At that point you put in your password (which is already attached to your Apple ID) and then it is done. Think of it something similar to an In-App purchase. Very simple, and very secure.
That would be the way some transactions work.
However, there are other transactions that you can pre authorize by setting limits in the device (maximum amount, frequency. etc).
Then, you can wave the device at a vending machine or train station gate and the transaction occurs without any intervention by you or another person.
A similar transaction could be used to buy coffee or a magazine, etc. -- where the seller's POST is manned by a person:
-- The seller initiates the transaction through his POST
-- You wave your NFC device (or card) as payment
-- The seller's POST accepts payment (and optionally bumps a receipt)
-- The seller hands you your purchase
... a very efficient and minimalistic transaction -- no exchanging, physical media (cc or cash), no fumbling with a cash drawer, no manually scanning a cc, no stashing/exchanging cc and register receipts, no signature, etc.
Say you are a news stand or coffee stand with a limited number of items to sell (like that guy in grand central station).
The iPad2 (with NFC) is the seller's POST:
-- He rings the item(s) you buy by pressing a few buttons on the iPad
-- You wave your iPhone or cc as payment
-- The iPad and iPhone (or cc) connect to consumate the transaction
-- The iPad signals approval
-- The seller hands the buyer the goods
Wham, Bam -- thank you Ma'm!
That's it... It takes longer to explain than to do!
You do realize the debt was created by and exists only in digital form? The money never existed, and neither does the debt. However if you don't pay it back with something real....
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are debt instruments by their very nature. FRNs are printed paper with no intrinsic value and nothing of value backing them. Its value is "faith based". You give me worthless paper in exchange for goods or services with the faith that I can rip off the next guy with it. A $5 dollar bill is worth the same as a $10 dollar bill because they are both rectangular pieces of paper, both of the same size. It's like taking an orange and writing a 10 on it; then calling it 10 oranges.
A dollar is not a thing, but the word dollar is a unit of measurement for precious metals like gold and silver. Saying you have 10 dollars is like saying I have 10 gallons. It is meaningless. However, we have been brainwashed from childhood to believe that this actually makes sense. We started out calling FRNs dollars because they were backed by gold. Then the government confiscated this gold and began printing more dollars than we had gold. Inflation was born! Now, the dollar is so worthless, that it takes about 1,400 FRNs to purchase a single ounce of gold, whereas it originally took just one.
There was a country I heard of once where their money became so worthless that they started burning it to keep warm. Continuously moving our currency into directions that are more easily "faked" or counterfeited will result in continued inflation, devaluation and eventually collapse.
I don't wear hats. I live in pure reality -- get educated -- learn what's going on around you...
Ignorance is NOT bliss.
Big brother is already watching you! They know where you go, what your doing, even what you're eating. They have already implanted a chip in you. Last time you went for a checkup and your dr did a prostate exam, do you think that was just his finger he shoved up your butt?
Check this out:
www.wasthatjustafingerupmyass.com
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are debt instruments by their very nature. FRNs are printed paper with no intrinsic value and nothing of value backing them. Its value is "faith based". You give me worthless paper in exchange for goods or services with the faith that I can rip off the next guy with it. A $5 dollar bill is worth the same as a $10 dollar bill because they are both rectangular pieces of paper, both of the same size. It's like taking an orange and writing a 10 on it; then calling it 10 oranges.
A dollar is not a thing, but the word dollar is a unit of measurement for precious metals like gold and silver. Saying you have 10 dollars is like saying I have 10 gallons. It is meaningless. However, we have been brainwashed from childhood to believe that this actually makes sense. We started out calling FRNs dollars because they were backed by gold. Then the government confiscated this gold and began printing more dollars than we had gold. Inflation was born! Now, the dollar is so worthless, that it takes about 1,400 FRNs to purchase a single ounce of gold, whereas it originally took just one.
There was a country I heard of once where their money became so worthless that they started burning it to keep warm. Continuously moving our currency into directions that are more easily "faked" or counterfeited will result in continued inflation, devaluation and eventually collapse.
What we need is competition of money -- which was tried, but the Feds shut one of the would-be competitors down (NORFED aka Liberty Dollar):
http://coin-shop.com/norfed.html
And who decided that this shiny rock you call gold should be the almighty determination of wealth. It just tells me that your arbitrarily set border contains more of this rock, or you have traded some colored paper, or some other kind of shiny rock to get it.
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
And who decided that this shiny rock you call gold should be the almighty determination of wealth. It just tells me that your arbitrarily set border contains more of this rock, or you have traded some colored paper, or some other kind of shiny rock to get it.
The falacy in your argument is that we have been brainwashed to accept paper money, yet you have been brainwashed that gold should be the standard. If you really believed in a system of barter, there would be no standard.
Gold has maintained it's buying power for thousands of years. Thats not about to change anytime in the next few thousand.
I'll stick with that streak, thanks.
Oh and for the dreamers out there that think Apple might deploy their own payment solution ... you have no idea what you are talking about. Becoming a payment/transaction processor/operator requires huge investment and I do mean huge with very little returns on investment. Considering the type of ROI that Apple is used to and that the investors expect from them, becoming a payment operator would be a huge mistake for Apple. Hence, they are not doing it. They might however, partner up with banks or other financial institutions or completely ignore the payment side of NFC. There are already multiple deals between banks and mobile operators to bring NFC payments to smart cards and there is very little that Apple can gain from entering that market.