Why can't Apple do this, it would massively boost Americas economy.
Because if you take into account that people are paid 170$ a month, making it in the U.S. would give you a phone probably costing about 10,000 dollars.
(these numbers are totally fabricated, and probably, not far from the truth)
These are outstanding and highly loyal employees that worship the Apple brand no doubt.
Anyone who sacrifices a National Holiday for the company good deserves much praise. I only wish we had these kinds of loyal selfless employees in the United States. Sadly the typical U.S. worker is a lazy couch potato who never ever works extended hours unless they are threatened by management. So sad and you people wonder why so many of our jobs go overseas. This is exhibit one, company loyalty and pride in your product since everyone at the manufacturing facility knows full well that Apple makes the best mobile gadgets on the planet (Sorry Android fanbois but your cheap plastic devices just do not compare to the industrial grade quality of a corresponding Apple device...boom)
I'm sorry but if it means one more week to get our much loved Apple products in our hands its worth it to wait. Chinese New Year is like all of our holidays combined...and its a very big deal to them...so show some respect for the culture.
I'm of the mind that we have to find a way to increase manufacturing in both of our countries. Not everyone is going to have the "smarts/education" to work in the high tech industry. The problem, as I see it, is that unless all manufacturers are willing to do it then the ones who don't will have an unfair advantage over those who "produce at home".
I'm not. Countries should do what they can do best, and trade with other countries who are better at doing other things. When more trade happens, the overall level of living standards rise. Some people are made worse off by trade, but far more people are made better off, and as a result, life is better overall. If a country's people decide that they want to compensate those who are hurt by trade, they can do that. But hindering trade hurts the broader population in favor of those who would have been hurt by trade, which is very inefficient.
Quote:
At the risk of being labeled a "communist or socialist" I would suggest that governments will have to place some serious import duties on that which is not manufactured at home. This would give all companies an option .... pay "our wages to our workers" .... or pay higher "taxes" to our governments .... and at the same time ensuring that no company would have an unfair price advantage. How do you feel about that kind of a solution?
The more that that happens, the worse off the whole world will be.
Every time the government changes the price of something that the market has already set, bad things happen. Government lowers the price of a house by making mortgage interest deductible, so people buy too many houses, overextend their credit, and eventually (after a few more dominoes fall) cause the near downfall of the banking system. Not to mention the fact that because so many people bought houses, when unemployment rose, people were far less able to move from areas that had bad economies to areas that still had good ones. Having a vibrant economy requires having a certain percentage of renters who are willing and able to follow the jobs wherever they go. It's one of the lesser known reasons why the USA (and other strong countries) had such a great economy for so many decades. Countries where people are less mobile are less able to roll with the economic punches.
Government raises the price of American sugar and as a result, everything uses corn syrup to sweeten and now the world seems to be finding that corn syrup is worse for you in just about every way than sugar is.
Government lowers the price of corn ethanol and suddenly the price of food rises, not to mention the price of corn syrup, and too much corn is produced, resulting in environmental damage and crappy pickup in my BMW.
Government lowers the cost of higher education and as a result, too many people waste four years of their life learning about Kafka in the 13th grade when in reality, there are only so many jobs that require a college degree. Now we can't find people who are willing to work in a field to pick strawberries because we've forced them to spend 12 years of their lives in school before that. Democracies need educated people, but people want cheap fruit. So if you're going to forbid a person who wants to work for $3 an hour from doing so, you CREATE illegal immigration.
Government raises the price of marijuana to infinity and people who are willing to do illegal things (like sell drugs) start doing some really nasty illegal things (like kill people) to make sure they can continue selling drugs. A bag of weed that costs $1 to make and get to market now costs $20 because the risk of going to jail demands a high premium.
So no, I don't think the government should protect industries from competition. It is far more efficient to let the rest of us benefit from trade and then have a social safety net for the lazy or the stupid or the unable. It also creates a rent seeking society where instead of trying to figure out how to make a dollar, people spend more and more of their time trying to figure out who they have to bribe (or did you think donating money to a political candidate in large quantities was something other than that?) to get their industry protected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking
How much extra would manufacturing the iPhone in the US cost? I'd be willing to pay a premium if I knew that the workers were being treated well. I know that Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, LG, et al still all make at least some of their phones in their home country.
How much more would you be willing to pay?
How do you know that workers in America would be treated well? You'd be more certain, but workers are certainly abused in all countries. It could be (and there is some evidence of it) that the workers who put together iPhones are treated (money and hours) FAR better than the average worker in China. So if those plants closed down and those workers were put out on the street, would you want to have their blood on your hands? If they weren't being paid triple to create iPhones, they'd have to go to the next best option, which may be FAR worse. Are you OK with that? Or do you care about the welfare of only those workers in your own country? Providing work at above the prevailing wage is a pretty good way to help some very poor people out of poverty.
I'm sorry but if it means one more week to get our much loved Apple products in our hands its worth it to wait. Chinese New Year is like all of our holidays combined...and its a very big deal to them...so show some respect for the culture.
How should we, (generally) western consumers, demand that the Chinese company that made the decision to have their workers work extra for triple pay reverse that decision? Voluntary or not, we don't know - though if they're tripling the pay, that suggests that it IS voluntary. If it's mandatory, then why bargain for it by offering higher pay?
It's their job, if they don't want to do it, they can quit and work elsewhere. Why do we have anything to do with it?
If a Christian wants to work on Christmas, would you demand that she not be allowed to do it because your sensibilities are hurt?
How should we, (generally) western consumers, demand that the Chinese company that made the decision to have their workers work extra for triple pay reverse that decision? Voluntary or not, we don't know - though if they're tripling the pay, that suggests that it IS voluntary. If it's mandatory, then why bargain for it by offering higher pay?
It's their job, if they don't want to do it, they can quit and work elsewhere. Why do we have anything to do with it?
If a Christian wants to work on Christmas, would you demand that she not be allowed to do it because your sensibilities are hurt?
The overtime is most likely NOT VOLUNTARY, since those aren't ultra flexible production line and cross functional employees they have there. And the only reason triple pay is offered is because the management would have a full on riot on their hand if they tried to force workers to work through the holiday without any significant compensation. There were a few incidents that came close to that last year. Plus, they have to at least make the appearance of conforming to local labor laws.
The overtime is most likely NOT VOLUNTARY, since those aren't ultra flexible production line and cross functional employees they have there. And the only reason triple pay is offered is because the management would have a full on riot on their hand if they tried to force workers to work through the holiday without any significant compensation. There were a few incidents that came close to that last year. Plus, they have to at least make the appearance of conforming to local labor laws.
All your evidence that it is not voluntary is opinion, and you state yourself - the company would be violating local labor laws if it was not voluntary. Sounds like you're speaking with your heart not your head.
As I said, other manufacturers manage to make their high-end phones in developed nations. No-one on AI is living in poverty and most could afford to pay more. I'd happily pay an extra 20%.
Quote:
How do you know that workers in America would be treated well?
America's labour laws are weak compared with the rest of the developed world but are far, far greater than those in China. People aren't dying on their feet in American factories like they are in China.
First off, I'm glad to see you posting again ... I've not seen much of you lately ... welcome back. Secondly, I'd be interested in your view of a scenario that has been rolling around in my mind for a few years now.
I'm of the mind that we have to find a way to increase manufacturing in both of our countries. Not everyone is going to have the "smarts/education" to work in the high tech industry. The problem, as I see it, is that unless all manufacturers are willing to do it then the ones who don't will have an unfair advantage over those who "produce at home".
At the risk of being labeled a "communist or socialist" I would suggest that governments will have to place some serious import duties on that which is not manufactured at home. This would give all companies an option .... pay "our wages to our workers" .... or pay higher "taxes" to our governments .... and at the same time ensuring that no company would have an unfair price advantage. How do you feel about that kind of a solution?
Lastly, I love your signature tag .... the only change I would make is going from this: It is an extreme form of skepticism .... to this: It is an extreme form of arrogance. I don't know .... just seems to be more fitting for this site. Thoughts?
Comments
Ditto.
Why can't Apple do this, it would massively boost Americas economy.
Because if you take into account that people are paid 170$ a month, making it in the U.S. would give you a phone probably costing about 10,000 dollars.
(these numbers are totally fabricated, and probably, not far from the truth)
Anyone who sacrifices a National Holiday for the company good deserves much praise. I only wish we had these kinds of loyal selfless employees in the United States. Sadly the typical U.S. worker is a lazy couch potato who never ever works extended hours unless they are threatened by management. So sad and you people wonder why so many of our jobs go overseas. This is exhibit one, company loyalty and pride in your product since everyone at the manufacturing facility knows full well that Apple makes the best mobile gadgets on the planet (Sorry Android fanbois but your cheap plastic devices just do not compare to the industrial grade quality of a corresponding Apple device...boom)
I'm of the mind that we have to find a way to increase manufacturing in both of our countries. Not everyone is going to have the "smarts/education" to work in the high tech industry. The problem, as I see it, is that unless all manufacturers are willing to do it then the ones who don't will have an unfair advantage over those who "produce at home".
I'm not. Countries should do what they can do best, and trade with other countries who are better at doing other things. When more trade happens, the overall level of living standards rise. Some people are made worse off by trade, but far more people are made better off, and as a result, life is better overall. If a country's people decide that they want to compensate those who are hurt by trade, they can do that. But hindering trade hurts the broader population in favor of those who would have been hurt by trade, which is very inefficient.
At the risk of being labeled a "communist or socialist" I would suggest that governments will have to place some serious import duties on that which is not manufactured at home. This would give all companies an option .... pay "our wages to our workers" .... or pay higher "taxes" to our governments .... and at the same time ensuring that no company would have an unfair price advantage. How do you feel about that kind of a solution?
The more that that happens, the worse off the whole world will be.
Every time the government changes the price of something that the market has already set, bad things happen. Government lowers the price of a house by making mortgage interest deductible, so people buy too many houses, overextend their credit, and eventually (after a few more dominoes fall) cause the near downfall of the banking system. Not to mention the fact that because so many people bought houses, when unemployment rose, people were far less able to move from areas that had bad economies to areas that still had good ones. Having a vibrant economy requires having a certain percentage of renters who are willing and able to follow the jobs wherever they go. It's one of the lesser known reasons why the USA (and other strong countries) had such a great economy for so many decades. Countries where people are less mobile are less able to roll with the economic punches.
Government raises the price of American sugar and as a result, everything uses corn syrup to sweeten and now the world seems to be finding that corn syrup is worse for you in just about every way than sugar is.
Government lowers the price of corn ethanol and suddenly the price of food rises, not to mention the price of corn syrup, and too much corn is produced, resulting in environmental damage and crappy pickup in my BMW.
Government lowers the cost of higher education and as a result, too many people waste four years of their life learning about Kafka in the 13th grade when in reality, there are only so many jobs that require a college degree. Now we can't find people who are willing to work in a field to pick strawberries because we've forced them to spend 12 years of their lives in school before that. Democracies need educated people, but people want cheap fruit. So if you're going to forbid a person who wants to work for $3 an hour from doing so, you CREATE illegal immigration.
Government raises the price of marijuana to infinity and people who are willing to do illegal things (like sell drugs) start doing some really nasty illegal things (like kill people) to make sure they can continue selling drugs. A bag of weed that costs $1 to make and get to market now costs $20 because the risk of going to jail demands a high premium.
So no, I don't think the government should protect industries from competition. It is far more efficient to let the rest of us benefit from trade and then have a social safety net for the lazy or the stupid or the unable. It also creates a rent seeking society where instead of trying to figure out how to make a dollar, people spend more and more of their time trying to figure out who they have to bribe (or did you think donating money to a political candidate in large quantities was something other than that?) to get their industry protected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking
Sound like any country you know of?
I think you can take it from there...
How much extra would manufacturing the iPhone in the US cost? I'd be willing to pay a premium if I knew that the workers were being treated well. I know that Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, LG, et al still all make at least some of their phones in their home country.
How much more would you be willing to pay?
How do you know that workers in America would be treated well? You'd be more certain, but workers are certainly abused in all countries. It could be (and there is some evidence of it) that the workers who put together iPhones are treated (money and hours) FAR better than the average worker in China. So if those plants closed down and those workers were put out on the street, would you want to have their blood on your hands? If they weren't being paid triple to create iPhones, they'd have to go to the next best option, which may be FAR worse. Are you OK with that? Or do you care about the welfare of only those workers in your own country? Providing work at above the prevailing wage is a pretty good way to help some very poor people out of poverty.
I'm sorry but if it means one more week to get our much loved Apple products in our hands its worth it to wait. Chinese New Year is like all of our holidays combined...and its a very big deal to them...so show some respect for the culture.
How should we, (generally) western consumers, demand that the Chinese company that made the decision to have their workers work extra for triple pay reverse that decision? Voluntary or not, we don't know - though if they're tripling the pay, that suggests that it IS voluntary. If it's mandatory, then why bargain for it by offering higher pay?
It's their job, if they don't want to do it, they can quit and work elsewhere. Why do we have anything to do with it?
If a Christian wants to work on Christmas, would you demand that she not be allowed to do it because your sensibilities are hurt?
How should we, (generally) western consumers, demand that the Chinese company that made the decision to have their workers work extra for triple pay reverse that decision? Voluntary or not, we don't know - though if they're tripling the pay, that suggests that it IS voluntary. If it's mandatory, then why bargain for it by offering higher pay?
It's their job, if they don't want to do it, they can quit and work elsewhere. Why do we have anything to do with it?
If a Christian wants to work on Christmas, would you demand that she not be allowed to do it because your sensibilities are hurt?
The overtime is most likely NOT VOLUNTARY, since those aren't ultra flexible production line and cross functional employees they have there. And the only reason triple pay is offered is because the management would have a full on riot on their hand if they tried to force workers to work through the holiday without any significant compensation. There were a few incidents that came close to that last year. Plus, they have to at least make the appearance of conforming to local labor laws.
The overtime is most likely NOT VOLUNTARY, since those aren't ultra flexible production line and cross functional employees they have there. And the only reason triple pay is offered is because the management would have a full on riot on their hand if they tried to force workers to work through the holiday without any significant compensation. There were a few incidents that came close to that last year. Plus, they have to at least make the appearance of conforming to local labor laws.
All your evidence that it is not voluntary is opinion, and you state yourself - the company would be violating local labor laws if it was not voluntary. Sounds like you're speaking with your heart not your head.
How much more would you be willing to pay for your iPhone to provide higher wages in China?
How much more would you be willing to pay for your iPhone to provide wages in the USA or England?
How much more would you be willing to pay?
As I said, other manufacturers manage to make their high-end phones in developed nations. No-one on AI is living in poverty and most could afford to pay more. I'd happily pay an extra 20%.
How do you know that workers in America would be treated well?
America's labour laws are weak compared with the rest of the developed world but are far, far greater than those in China. People aren't dying on their feet in American factories like they are in China.
First off, I'm glad to see you posting again ... I've not seen much of you lately ... welcome back. Secondly, I'd be interested in your view of a scenario that has been rolling around in my mind for a few years now.
I'm of the mind that we have to find a way to increase manufacturing in both of our countries. Not everyone is going to have the "smarts/education" to work in the high tech industry. The problem, as I see it, is that unless all manufacturers are willing to do it then the ones who don't will have an unfair advantage over those who "produce at home".
At the risk of being labeled a "communist or socialist" I would suggest that governments will have to place some serious import duties on that which is not manufactured at home. This would give all companies an option .... pay "our wages to our workers" .... or pay higher "taxes" to our governments .... and at the same time ensuring that no company would have an unfair price advantage. How do you feel about that kind of a solution?
Lastly, I love your signature tag .... the only change I would make is going from this: It is an extreme form of skepticism .... to this: It is an extreme form of arrogance. I don't know .... just seems to be more fitting for this site. Thoughts?
With you on that last point, big time.