And the number of games sold per device is also very low.
C.
There is far more to look into when considering this than simply overall sales numbers. For a start, 62m sales of a device which is largely single-purpose is quite incredible. It's even more impressive when you consider the single purpose is entertainment and isn't something "essential" like telephone or internet.
The latest figures I can find (for NA only) show an attach rate of around 4.1 or 4.2 games per device. If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
Reasons why this figure may not be higher:
- A huge number of games are sold pre-owned and do not have any bearing on this figure.
- Users are very pleased with the games they have purchased and do not buy more new titles because the content they have keeps them occupied for a long time.
But really, how many iOS users have spent $100 or more on games for their device and do they buy more games because the games they have are less likely to keep them occupied for a long time?
Sony has never released any information about the number of devices "in use" so it is impossible to know anything about this.
Sounds like it'll have the edge over Apple's next hardware in terms of raw CPU and graphics - the iPhone and iPad will probably go dual core ARM with the next release. But that's OK, because it's a pure gaming device - with a quad core CPU I'd be surprised if you'll get more than an hours gaming on battery.
When I had my PSP I always had to use it plugged in as the battery life was appalling.
Sony (the games publisher) should embrace iOS though, as companies like EA are making a mint at the moment, but Sony (the games hardware manufacturer) won't let them do that.
The Android game framework sounds interesting, but they still have to overcome the big problem of getting Android owners to actually pay for downloads, because at the moment it aint happening.
It may have a hardware edge, however if ios is using 400 mhz. speed for a dual core setup, while sony's using 200 mhz. for a quad core, it's a wash.
Most interesting is what the price will be. Sony using Android as the framework - is very similar to when they used Palm OS - hopefully it won't end in a similar fashion.
The latest figures I can find (for NA only) show an attach rate of around 4.1 or 4.2 games per device. If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
But really, how many iOS users have spent $100 or more on games for their device and do they buy more games because the games they have are less likely to keep them occupied for a long time?
Here's why that isn't good. It's been a disaster for Sony. The PSP was too expensive to manufacture, and Sony hoped to make money back on the Sony tax on each game sale.
With such low attach rates - the gamble didn't work. PSP barely broke even.
It was also not good for developers. PSP titles have sold in lower numbers than PS3. Even though in theory there are more PSPs in circulation. This has resulted in only a small number of titles for the platform.
So games makers are faced with high development costs, expensive revenue sharing with Sony, and a relatively small active market who buy very few titles.
I am not seeing anything in the new platform that shows that Sony has learned from this mistake.
The original PSP had a large screen - physical controls - and a high specification.
It appealed to to hard-core gamers. But sold poorly. Software was patchy because developers faced full-sized development costs and lower mobile revenues.
This product repeats the exact same mistakes.
It is large and single purpose. So it's not for girls. You really need a bag to carry it in.
So if you are a casual gamer, you'll get an iPod touch or a 3DS.
The NGP is a full-on hardcore gamer machine. And if you are a hardcore gamer, then Angry Birds is not going to cut it. You'll want .. no, you'll demand! .. full games, with fancy graphics and epic production values.
Sounds good, but developers will need deep pockets to fund NGP development. And in return they'll get a smaller share of the revenues. And a much smaller market.
And while hardcore gamers say they want epic games on a handheld, they really resent paying full-sized console prices for mobile content.
The NGP will certainly offer the best possible mobile gaming experience. But I am pretty sure it will be a disaster as a platform.
C.
And that's why hardcores need to quit this mentality and focus on making Sony actually DO AAA titles for the Move (it has much, much more potential than Kinect for HCs) and the Playstation overall. The costs of developing huge games for a tiny, heavy screen with cramped controls simply isn't worth it. I'd say mobile gaming should and will remain mostly casual.
What the iPhone could use, though, is two shoulder buttons. That would make iPhone shooters a freaking breeze. If only Apple would allow devs to use the volume buttons...
Here's why that isn't good. It's been a disaster for Sony. The PSP was too expensive to manufacture, and Sony hoped to make money back on the Sony tax on each game sale.
With such low attach rates - the gamble didn't work. PSP barely broke even.
It was also not good for developers. PSP titles have sold in lower numbers than PS3. Even though in theory there are more PSPs in circulation. This has resulted in only a small number of titles for the platform.
So games makers are faced with high development costs, expensive revenue sharing with Sony, and a relatively small active market who buy very few titles.
I am not seeing anything in the new platform that shows that Sony has learned from this mistake.
C.
Are you going to post any sources or just continue posting your opinion as fact?
Meanwhile, I'm playing Dead Space on the same device from which I posted this.
Cheers.
DOA indeed. And, oh F**** forgot my Dead Space download on iPad completed last night and I just finished work... Ooooh can't wait. Firing it up now.
Sony should get of its ass and do something about the horrible, dated, poor-quality, aliased graphics on their aging console rather than try and chase "portable gaming" that's not even a smartphone.
Jeezus you would think with all the strengths of the PSP and SonyEricsson they could easily come up with a unified device that would destroy the iPhone. Well, it hasn't happened for 5 years and it's not going to happen anytime in the *next* 5.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
The original PSP had a large screen - physical controls - and a high specification.
It appealed to to hard-core gamers. But sold poorly. Software was patchy because developers faced full-sized development costs and lower mobile revenues.
This product repeats the exact same mistakes.
It is large and single purpose. So it's not for girls. You really need a bag to carry it in.
So if you are a casual gamer, you'll get an iPod touch or a 3DS.
The NGP is a full-on hardcore gamer machine. And if you are a hardcore gamer, then Angry Birds is not going to cut it. You'll want .. no, you'll demand! .. full games, with fancy graphics and epic production values.
Sounds good, but developers will need deep pockets to fund NGP development. And in return they'll get a smaller share of the revenues. And a much smaller market.
And while hardcore gamers say they want epic games on a handheld, they really resent paying full-sized console prices for mobile content.
The NGP will certainly offer the best possible mobile gaming experience. But I am pretty sure it will be a disaster as a platform.
C.
I agree whole-heartedly.
Can ANYONE explain why this could be expected to be more "successful" than the PSP?
There is far more to look into when considering this than simply overall sales numbers. For a start, 62m sales of a device which is largely single-purpose is quite incredible. It's even more impressive when you consider the single purpose is entertainment and isn't something "essential" like telephone or internet.
You must be forgetting UMD movies and how terribly they bombed. The PSP was billed from the start as an all around entertainment device and a premiere way to watch movies on the go, plus oh yeah it plays these awesome games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13
If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
You should ignore digital sales, given that no PSP prior to the PSPGo actually had internal storage and access to a digital store. So millions of the ones sold aren't even capable of utilizing those, they just experience shitty battery life running UMDs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
Everyone knows every single console maker puts a low price on the hardware and hope to make it up in software.
You mean every console maker besides Nintendo, who always makes money on everything they sell.
Also, looking at the device, the design appears to be basically the same except that big glaring space on the right where there should have always been a 2nd analog stick now has one. Woo
Yeah, that's not going to happen. EVER. Why pay for each iOS license when you can get or use Android's ecosystem for FREE? Think about it.
Bottom line is Android will continue to grow, because it's absolutely free.
Apple will continue to sell well in the market place, but we have to accept the fact that Android is the new Microsoft for the mobile environment. We all know how that worked out for Apple.
Keep in mind I'm a rabid Apple fan, own APPL stock, and realize Apple will continue to do well as long as they continue to innovate ... but realities have to be accepted that Android is a serious threat.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
Delivering the hardware capabilities won't mean jack if they can't deliver games. Actually they need to make an attempt to develop a gaming culture within Apple first, then start looking at games.
Apple's biggest attempt to enhance the gaming experience in iOS resulted in the Game Center, which is beyond a joke. They even had a few different templates to copy from and they still stuffed it up. Just the UI makes me want to bring out the Cognac and cigars!
Not to say Apple couldn't do something special. They have a bundle of cash that they could throw at other companies to do the job for them.
Which, based on past performance, is what I think needs to happen.
Mobile shouldn't be all that hard. The lower budgets and smaller teams mean all Apple would really need to do to make a start is buy up a bunch of the best iOS Indies and fund them with plenty of cash to create exclusive iOS games.
The next step would be to either buy or build a few 3D engines and license or simply give them away for iOS exclusive games.
Apple TV as a console would be much harder as the game budgets are huge in comparison to mobile (they can run into the 10's of millions for a single game). Apple would pretty much have to buy an established publisher/developer (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two etc) to compete.
In any case the Apple TV delivering PS3-quality graphics in a couple of generations wouldn't give Sony nightmares, but I'm pretty sure the announcement of the formation of Apple Game Studios on the back of the purchase of one of the major publishers would pretty much make Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony collectively shit their pants (figuratively speaking).
It's amusing to think that people really do think that Apple cares about gamers, to think otherwise is to confuse hyperbole and rhetoric with the ability to rewrite history.
Apple never has, doesn't, and never will give two hoots about gaming or gamers.
The iPhone, and IPod Touch and the iPad may well have outsold numbers of Nintendo DS and Sony PSP together, indeed the software apps themselves may be outselling both in terms of profit and units, however rephrasing this as 'Apple Products that people primarily use, to communicate with over telecommunication networks, listen to their music on, or just because they can't be bothered turning on their bulky laptop have sold more than these two products that people primarily use for gaming' - To wit, I congratulate Apple on being able to see that one number of apples is bigger than another number of oranges.
DOA indeed. And, oh F**** forgot my Dead Space download on iPad completed last night and I just finished work... Ooooh can't wait. Firing it up now.
Sony should get of its ass and do something about the horrible, dated, poor-quality, aliased graphics on their aging console rather than try and chase "portable gaming" that's not even a smartphone.
Jeezus you would think with all the strengths of the PSP and SonyEricsson they could easily come up with a unified device that would destroy the iPhone. Well, it hasn't happened for 5 years and it's not going to happen anytime in the *next* 5.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
I would say that iOS gaming graphics are one generation away from what is out now on consoles. The iOS graphics are as good as ps2/xbox.
I would say that iOS gaming graphics are one generation away from what is out now on consoles. The iOS graphics are as good as ps2/xbox.
As many people will tell you graphics aren't the be all and end all, if it was the Wii would not have sold in the stupid numbers that it has done, and the DS would not be going through it's annual rehash/rename cycle
TThis is all find and good, but if Sony is expected to subsidize the cost of this hardware with $20, $30, $40 games, they will surly fail. Especially with the Android fan boys, who expect all their games to be free, knocks offs and pirated. It wont be a sustainable model for either Sony or their developers.
Comments
There, I said it.
And the battery lasts exactly for how long?
Sorry, it has probably been neglected to mention, that there is a port for a power adaptor. So no need for batteries any longer.
Yes! That's less than 10M units per year.
So the actual number of units in use is very low.
And the number of games sold per device is also very low.
C.
There is far more to look into when considering this than simply overall sales numbers. For a start, 62m sales of a device which is largely single-purpose is quite incredible. It's even more impressive when you consider the single purpose is entertainment and isn't something "essential" like telephone or internet.
The latest figures I can find (for NA only) show an attach rate of around 4.1 or 4.2 games per device. If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
Reasons why this figure may not be higher:
- A huge number of games are sold pre-owned and do not have any bearing on this figure.
- Users are very pleased with the games they have purchased and do not buy more new titles because the content they have keeps them occupied for a long time.
But really, how many iOS users have spent $100 or more on games for their device and do they buy more games because the games they have are less likely to keep them occupied for a long time?
Sony has never released any information about the number of devices "in use" so it is impossible to know anything about this.
Sounds like it'll have the edge over Apple's next hardware in terms of raw CPU and graphics - the iPhone and iPad will probably go dual core ARM with the next release. But that's OK, because it's a pure gaming device - with a quad core CPU I'd be surprised if you'll get more than an hours gaming on battery.
When I had my PSP I always had to use it plugged in as the battery life was appalling.
Sony (the games publisher) should embrace iOS though, as companies like EA are making a mint at the moment, but Sony (the games hardware manufacturer) won't let them do that.
The Android game framework sounds interesting, but they still have to overcome the big problem of getting Android owners to actually pay for downloads, because at the moment it aint happening.
It may have a hardware edge, however if ios is using 400 mhz. speed for a dual core setup, while sony's using 200 mhz. for a quad core, it's a wash.
Most interesting is what the price will be. Sony using Android as the framework - is very similar to when they used Palm OS - hopefully it won't end in a similar fashion.
Sony was always known for making great hardware, and finished it off with horrible, sloppy, DRM-infested software that ruined the entire experience.
At least Sony seemed to wise-up and let someone else (Google/Android) do the OS.
Looks like it has a chance... back in pre-iPhone 2007.
They are Japanese. It's as difficult for them to make good software as is making a Hindu eat meat.
I mean, why do you think the iPhone is rocking in Japan, the Mythical Land of Super Shiny Phones Years Ahead of America's?
And as much as I like the PS3, the interface sucks. Sucks sucks sucks sucks.
The latest figures I can find (for NA only) show an attach rate of around 4.1 or 4.2 games per device. If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
But really, how many iOS users have spent $100 or more on games for their device and do they buy more games because the games they have are less likely to keep them occupied for a long time?
Here's why that isn't good. It's been a disaster for Sony. The PSP was too expensive to manufacture, and Sony hoped to make money back on the Sony tax on each game sale.
With such low attach rates - the gamble didn't work. PSP barely broke even.
It was also not good for developers. PSP titles have sold in lower numbers than PS3. Even though in theory there are more PSPs in circulation. This has resulted in only a small number of titles for the platform.
So games makers are faced with high development costs, expensive revenue sharing with Sony, and a relatively small active market who buy very few titles.
I am not seeing anything in the new platform that shows that Sony has learned from this mistake.
C.
The original PSP had a large screen - physical controls - and a high specification.
It appealed to to hard-core gamers. But sold poorly. Software was patchy because developers faced full-sized development costs and lower mobile revenues.
This product repeats the exact same mistakes.
It is large and single purpose. So it's not for girls. You really need a bag to carry it in.
So if you are a casual gamer, you'll get an iPod touch or a 3DS.
The NGP is a full-on hardcore gamer machine. And if you are a hardcore gamer, then Angry Birds is not going to cut it. You'll want .. no, you'll demand! .. full games, with fancy graphics and epic production values.
Sounds good, but developers will need deep pockets to fund NGP development. And in return they'll get a smaller share of the revenues. And a much smaller market.
And while hardcore gamers say they want epic games on a handheld, they really resent paying full-sized console prices for mobile content.
The NGP will certainly offer the best possible mobile gaming experience. But I am pretty sure it will be a disaster as a platform.
C.
And that's why hardcores need to quit this mentality and focus on making Sony actually DO AAA titles for the Move (it has much, much more potential than Kinect for HCs) and the Playstation overall. The costs of developing huge games for a tiny, heavy screen with cramped controls simply isn't worth it. I'd say mobile gaming should and will remain mostly casual.
What the iPhone could use, though, is two shoulder buttons. That would make iPhone shooters a freaking breeze. If only Apple would allow devs to use the volume buttons...
Here's why that isn't good. It's been a disaster for Sony. The PSP was too expensive to manufacture, and Sony hoped to make money back on the Sony tax on each game sale.
With such low attach rates - the gamble didn't work. PSP barely broke even.
It was also not good for developers. PSP titles have sold in lower numbers than PS3. Even though in theory there are more PSPs in circulation. This has resulted in only a small number of titles for the platform.
So games makers are faced with high development costs, expensive revenue sharing with Sony, and a relatively small active market who buy very few titles.
I am not seeing anything in the new platform that shows that Sony has learned from this mistake.
C.
Are you going to post any sources or just continue posting your opinion as fact?
Are you going to post any sources or just continue posting your opinion as fact?
Does he really need to put sources to show that water is wet?
Come on! This is patently obvious! Everyone knows every single console maker puts a low price on the hardware and hope to make it up in software.
DOA.
Batery Life, or lack thereof.
Sony needs to wake up to new market realities.
Meanwhile, I'm playing Dead Space on the same device from which I posted this.
Cheers.
DOA indeed. And, oh F**** forgot my Dead Space download on iPad completed last night and I just finished work... Ooooh can't wait. Firing it up now.
Sony should get of its ass and do something about the horrible, dated, poor-quality, aliased graphics on their aging console rather than try and chase "portable gaming" that's not even a smartphone.
Jeezus you would think with all the strengths of the PSP and SonyEricsson they could easily come up with a unified device that would destroy the iPhone. Well, it hasn't happened for 5 years and it's not going to happen anytime in the *next* 5.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
The original PSP had a large screen - physical controls - and a high specification.
It appealed to to hard-core gamers. But sold poorly. Software was patchy because developers faced full-sized development costs and lower mobile revenues.
This product repeats the exact same mistakes.
It is large and single purpose. So it's not for girls. You really need a bag to carry it in.
So if you are a casual gamer, you'll get an iPod touch or a 3DS.
The NGP is a full-on hardcore gamer machine. And if you are a hardcore gamer, then Angry Birds is not going to cut it. You'll want .. no, you'll demand! .. full games, with fancy graphics and epic production values.
Sounds good, but developers will need deep pockets to fund NGP development. And in return they'll get a smaller share of the revenues. And a much smaller market.
And while hardcore gamers say they want epic games on a handheld, they really resent paying full-sized console prices for mobile content.
The NGP will certainly offer the best possible mobile gaming experience. But I am pretty sure it will be a disaster as a platform.
C.
I agree whole-heartedly.
Can ANYONE explain why this could be expected to be more "successful" than the PSP?
How is strategy different whatsoever?
There is far more to look into when considering this than simply overall sales numbers. For a start, 62m sales of a device which is largely single-purpose is quite incredible. It's even more impressive when you consider the single purpose is entertainment and isn't something "essential" like telephone or internet.
You must be forgetting UMD movies and how terribly they bombed. The PSP was billed from the start as an all around entertainment device and a premiere way to watch movies on the go, plus oh yeah it plays these awesome games.
If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.
You should ignore digital sales, given that no PSP prior to the PSPGo actually had internal storage and access to a digital store. So millions of the ones sold aren't even capable of utilizing those, they just experience shitty battery life running UMDs.
Everyone knows every single console maker puts a low price on the hardware and hope to make it up in software.
You mean every console maker besides Nintendo, who always makes money on everything they sell.
Also, looking at the device, the design appears to be basically the same except that big glaring space on the right where there should have always been a 2nd analog stick now has one. Woo
Are you going to post any sources or just continue posting your opinion as fact?
I thought this stuff was well known.
You can look on Wikipedia to compare unit sales of top-selling PSP vs. PS3 titles.
Sony's game division has been losing money for a few years
(2006,2007,2008,2009) - and those numbers are public.
Try googling "Sony game division losses"
The majority of the losses came from PS3 - but PSP did nothing to reduce that.
It's not hard to find a list of new PSP titles.
It's a very short list.
C.
Apple should licence iOS as a games OS to Sony.
There, I said it.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. EVER. Why pay for each iOS license when you can get or use Android's ecosystem for FREE? Think about it.
Bottom line is Android will continue to grow, because it's absolutely free.
Apple will continue to sell well in the market place, but we have to accept the fact that Android is the new Microsoft for the mobile environment. We all know how that worked out for Apple.
Keep in mind I'm a rabid Apple fan, own APPL stock, and realize Apple will continue to do well as long as they continue to innovate ... but realities have to be accepted that Android is a serious threat.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
Delivering the hardware capabilities won't mean jack if they can't deliver games. Actually they need to make an attempt to develop a gaming culture within Apple first, then start looking at games.
Apple's biggest attempt to enhance the gaming experience in iOS resulted in the Game Center, which is beyond a joke. They even had a few different templates to copy from and they still stuffed it up. Just the UI makes me want to bring out the Cognac and cigars!
Not to say Apple couldn't do something special. They have a bundle of cash that they could throw at other companies to do the job for them.
Which, based on past performance, is what I think needs to happen.
Mobile shouldn't be all that hard. The lower budgets and smaller teams mean all Apple would really need to do to make a start is buy up a bunch of the best iOS Indies and fund them with plenty of cash to create exclusive iOS games.
The next step would be to either buy or build a few 3D engines and license or simply give them away for iOS exclusive games.
Apple TV as a console would be much harder as the game budgets are huge in comparison to mobile (they can run into the 10's of millions for a single game). Apple would pretty much have to buy an established publisher/developer (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two etc) to compete.
In any case the Apple TV delivering PS3-quality graphics in a couple of generations wouldn't give Sony nightmares, but I'm pretty sure the announcement of the formation of Apple Game Studios on the back of the purchase of one of the major publishers would pretty much make Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony collectively shit their pants (figuratively speaking).
Apple never has, doesn't, and never will give two hoots about gaming or gamers.
The iPhone, and IPod Touch and the iPad may well have outsold numbers of Nintendo DS and Sony PSP together, indeed the software apps themselves may be outselling both in terms of profit and units, however rephrasing this as 'Apple Products that people primarily use, to communicate with over telecommunication networks, listen to their music on, or just because they can't be bothered turning on their bulky laptop have sold more than these two products that people primarily use for gaming' - To wit, I congratulate Apple on being able to see that one number of apples is bigger than another number of oranges.
DOA indeed. And, oh F**** forgot my Dead Space download on iPad completed last night and I just finished work... Ooooh can't wait. Firing it up now.
Sony should get of its ass and do something about the horrible, dated, poor-quality, aliased graphics on their aging console rather than try and chase "portable gaming" that's not even a smartphone.
Jeezus you would think with all the strengths of the PSP and SonyEricsson they could easily come up with a unified device that would destroy the iPhone. Well, it hasn't happened for 5 years and it's not going to happen anytime in the *next* 5.
BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.
I would say that iOS gaming graphics are one generation away from what is out now on consoles. The iOS graphics are as good as ps2/xbox.
I would say that iOS gaming graphics are one generation away from what is out now on consoles. The iOS graphics are as good as ps2/xbox.
As many people will tell you graphics aren't the be all and end all, if it was the Wii would not have sold in the stupid numbers that it has done, and the DS would not be going through it's annual rehash/rename cycle