Talking about uploading your files is naive. You only need to supply what you have and if you own it. One master file will contain the song. It will be threaded to the ones with proper ownership credentials. I suspect that those with ripped songs will be disappointed.
I dont think its a matter of outright costs, more psychological marketing - people will tend to buy three things for £/$5, but will think twice about buying 2 for £/$7.00. AngryBirds is a case in point, they sell millions of copies for 0.59p, if it was 1.59 then it would have sold a lot less.
Apologies for currency translation issues.
I agree that the OP's point was that there is a psychological barrier between the two prices. It's common sense though - most things you see at the supermarket are $x.99.
Most people can afford the thirty cents difference between the old iTunes price and the new. Personally the new price rips my undies every time I buy a song, but that is probably because of my distaste for the insidious greed of the labels.
If you were living in Sweden, Norway, the UK etc where it is available you would have seen how fast Spotify has dramatically changed people's music habits and attitude towards buying music.
No, it's changed the music habits of a subsection of people who work in media and kept money out of the hands of the artists.
I know I don't want it. As I'm in the uk I use spotify, it's beyond awesome. All apple need to do is clone it, then add access the the entire iTunes catalogue and most spotify users would switch in a second. I know I would.
I consume so much more new music thanks to spotify, as you haven't got the price tag to consider when trying out new music.
Here in Canada, high speed internet connection comes with tethers brought to you by the major ISP players.
Getting 10, 15, 25 or even 50Mbps download speeds is possible. The problem is that you can do it UP TO a point. Say, at 16Mbps (that i currently pay 49$/month and has a 600kps up speed) i get 90GB of traffic. That's UP/DOWN traffic. I could download more... I could potentially download UNLIMITED amount of data... for 60$ more. That's getting pricy.
Add to this that, unless you download using standard methods not perceived as 'mass download and piracy' techniques (read torrent) your speed will be fine. If you chose to download something like say... Linux via torrent, well, you can count on being limited to 50kbps at peak times. I'm not talking about downloading the latest Batman movie here... just USING torrent.
Now, music in the cloud... Each time i want to listen to my music, i'll be checking how much bandwidth i have left. I don't and go over board... ISP will come and politely ask me to ... pay up.
I love Apple... but, my music will stay @ home guys. I'll just copy to my iDevice what i want to listen to and voila... to me, as long as i can't use the Net freely without incurring the ISP tax... i'll stick to what works. Why fix what's not broken?
P.S.: I'm not even going to talk about GSM download rates.... iPhone streaming of my iTunes music in a subway that i have no reception anyway... Not adding up...
There are obviously many hurdles still to over come (ISP tax, coverage, download speed) but as a direction I think Apple have got it right, after all they are the ones putting their money where their mouth is, ie with their new data centre.
Cloud computing whether we like it or not is where we are going into the future, and all recorded mediums and peripheral devises are on the change, hence the reasoning behind Apples refusal to adopt Bluray,
The latest MacBook pro doesnt yet tick all the boxes but by 2012 it will be doing so with no mechanical drives just ssd, and hopefully the isps will be better aligned onboard by then too or apple may decide to take the lead that way too.
because of out of range inconsistency there will always be the need to download a held copy unless the world coverage by Satellite transmission takes over which would technically require a near impossible micro up /down stream equipment redesign, "beam me up Scotty"
But cloud computing would only require that you had interaction devices rather than megalumps of machinery in the home that would be much better for the environment especially the illumination of CDs DVDs Blurays recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it, as all this would be done online virtually from the artist to millions of customers, byby EMI, Warner, and friends your back catalogues are nice.
The end result would change the face of entertainment hence the pockets of resistance are feuding for their right to exist in an ever evolving world and are in the gravest danger of being simply left behind.
But cloud computing would only require that you had interaction devices rather than megalumps of machinery in the home that would be much better for the environment especially the illumination of CDs DVDs Blurays recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it, as all this would be done online virtually from the artist to millions of customers, byby EMI, Warner, and friends your back catalogues are nice.
The end result would change the face of entertainment hence the pockets of resistance are feuding for their right to exist in an ever evolving world and are in the gravest danger of being simply left behind.
First, speaking for home theater enthusiasts, our "?[media], recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it?" are not "rubbish" to us, despite your disinterest in, or objection to, those things. Cloud streaming has a LONG way to go to even compete with blu-ray audio and video quality, properly implemented. Not that it won't ever get there, but it's not there yet and probably won't be for many years. Many home theater installations rival commercial cinemas in picture and sound quality (not to mention interior design and construction). Take a look at what some people do with their home theaters and with what you call "rubbish".
Second, I don't think end users represent "pockets of resistance ? feuding" for our collective right to stave off technological evolution in favor of our current collection of satisfying gadgets and sources of entertainment. Some of us here are merely pointing out the fact that the cloud streaming argument, as it has thus far been presented, doesn't answer some basic questions of how it will be implemented and address the obvious and immediate concerns related to large media libraries containing material not found on iTunes' servers for myriad reasons.
Third, I think for many, there's a satisfaction that comes with actually possessing the media you own. I'm all for streaming (music and movies), but then there's my personal collection? things that I want to own. For me, and I suspect others, that means I want the satisfaction of knowing that I literally "have" it? that it's physically with me? not accessible depending on my cloud connection, but with me. Childish perhaps, but as a Pixar fan I hope you can cut me some slack.
The cloud-computing concept has great promise, and I welcome its measured implementation, but I remain a bit skeptical of some of the practical implications. And in any event, I don't view it to be the end all be all for everyone's needs or desires, at least not in the near future.
In theory I can understand Apple wanting direct downloads to be the primary model - and supplement it with streamable access to a library. But ultimately they must be seeing the trend of people's libraries outgrowing their hard drives. When my sister and fiance of all people (non-tech-savvy social workers) have gotten to the point where they can't purchase anymore music/tv because their Macs are already too full with iTunes downloads, photos and HD home videos - then Apple knows they have a problem.
We made you freaking rich (label execs), now do something to pay us back or we will continue to ruin your industry and your chances for turning in your leased 2009 black BMW 750i for the 2011 black BMW 750i that you deserve so badly.
Well...the heads of the four remaining large labels may be rich, but their companies aren't. The record industry is in free-fall. The peak year for the U.S. record industry was 1999, when it did $14.585 billion in sales (at list prices). In 2009 (2010 numbers aren't out yet, but they're probably worse), it did $7.778 billion (only 53% of its peak) and that doesn't even include inflation (which would place the industry at 40% of its 1999 peak).
And what's killed the industry isn't so much that we've moved to virtual formats, it's that the industry has moved back to mostly selling singles as opposed to albums. That worked back in the 1950s-early 1960s when a pop artist would go in the studio and record three tracks in two hours and have the record on the streets two weeks later, but it's unsustainable for the way artists record today, especially the big artists who obsess over their music for a year and record/mix/master with multiple studios and multiple engineers/producers. The decline of radio hasn't helped much either, since radio, for the most part, no longer sells product. And I suppose one can also make the case that there's lack of interest because the artists are not producing a lot of compelling music.
Citibank had to take over EMI and they immediately put it up for sale in order to beat Time Warner putting Warner music up for sale. You are getting your wish - it's already over for the big record labels and in spite of the fact that they have mostly put out crap for the last decade or more, that's still a very sad state of affairs.
In theory I can understand Apple wanting direct downloads to be the primary model - and supplement it with streamable access to a library. But ultimately they must be seeing the trend of people's libraries outgrowing their hard drives. When my sister and fiance of all people (non-tech-savvy social workers) have gotten to the point where they can't purchase anymore music/tv because their Macs are already too full with iTunes downloads, photos and HD home videos - then Apple knows they have a problem.
Well it depends: Apple supposedly doesn't make all that much profit on iTunes - it's all about selling hardware. And if a lack of HD space means that people replace their Macs with bigger Macs and their iPods/iPhones with bigger devices, that's all good for Apple. Even if only 1/10th of the people who are running out of space buy one new device, that's far more profit for Apple than selling another 100 tracks per person.
Here's all I want - just give me the ability to redownload or stream my purchased music and movies whenever I'd like. Every other downloadable service out there let's me redownload content I've already bought for free, allowing me to build a continually growing library without needing to manage the data myself. I have literally hundreds of games purchased on my Steam account, but if I had to hold onto that data myself and risk "losing" that purchase, I simply wouldn't have enough storage.
You can redownload apps, you can redownload books, but you can't redownload music and movies, nor can you stream them to a device you already own without first syncing it back to a PC that has a copy already stored on it. It's lame, and I hope that changes.
Ok Dana perhaps I am going a little too quick for some who are possessive over their materiel offerings along with their music and video preferences all and much more of which will be interactively available direct from the artists and producers web site offerings.
Lets say there are benefits from cloud computing that will become clearer to folk as it unravels over the next two years, for eg: Steve Jobs is negotiating 192khz 24 bit sound file downloads similar to FLACK files that will exceed Bluray or SAC-d streamed through Wi-hi-fi devices that will augment modernizing the theatre / HI-Fi world, and 1080P is already a streaming standard beyond the reproductive quality on many such even top end home theatre setups, Discs are an endangered species! your personal library can exist in cyberspace with various download preferences to load different reading, viewing or listening to your relevant devices.
I am an engineer with some 35yrs professional experience so I do understand your argument, but what I have used for many years in a macpro logic studio is now becoming Web cloud based mainstream for everyone to enjoy online on reasonably priced as well as top end home theatre setups that are going to have access to every market including iTunes with studio quality HD video and audio on demand from various facilitators, including Disney and Pixar.
The only hold up from this future are those who can't see the benefits in the short term during such a transitional phase because they are so attached to over-burdened legacy devices.
From my perspective 2012 is going to provide a major generational shift in the converging computer video experience and its time to get used to the idea of change now or get left behind, it's your choice!.
Ok Dana perhaps I am going a little too quick for some who are possessive over their materiel offerings along with their music and video preferences all and much more of which will be interactively available direct from the artists and producers web site offerings.
Perhaps, Allan, but I'd argue that, for some, the material offerings associated with their favorite films (including copies of the films themselves) are intrinsically valuable, whether they're available from the cloud or not, or even how quickly that access becomes available. The same applies to music, though maybe to a lesser degree.
A recent example is the BD release of Fantasia/Fantasia 2000. Disney opted to provide the bulk of the supplemental package through the Disney Digital Vault (BD-Live) rather than include that material on the physical discs as they had previously done with the Fantasia Anthology DVD several years ago. Presumably, this was partly a manufacturing-cost-savings measure. And while accessing those supplements isn't a terrible inconvenience, many, myself included, would have preferred to have the material simply included, or at least had the option of purchasing those supplements on a disc (even if it was something we had to send away for).
Regardless, this is representative of the progress you're talking about. And it's not, in and of itself, unwelcome. But in some instances, such as with Disney Classics like Fantasia, some would prefer the physical over the cloud. Admittedly, such preferences are subjective, but, particularly in this transitional stage when the quality of the physical (e.g., DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 and other lossless audio codecs) generally surpasses the quality, or at least the streaming constraints, of the cloud (e.g., limited to, or only offering, Dolby Digital 5.1 or 2.0 lossy audio), it's preferable to still have a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMc
Lets say there are benefits from cloud computing that will become clearer to folk as it unravels over the next two years, for eg: Steve Jobs is negotiating 192khz 24 bit sound file downloads similar to FLACK files that will exceed Bluray or SAC-d streamed through Wi-hi-fi devices that will augment modernizing the theatre / HI-Fi world, and 1080P is already a streaming standard beyond the reproductive quality on many such even top end home theatre setups, Discs are an endangered species! your personal library can exist in cyberspace with various download preferences to load different reading, viewing or listening to your relevant devices.
There are absolutely benefits! I'm certainly not trying to imply that there aren't. If I did, I didn't state myself clearly. I saw the report that iTunes may start providing 192kHz/24 bit sound files. That'd be wonderful! As it is, I import everything Apple Lossless. But again, that high quality is a matter of choice. Music I take the time to collect gets imported losslessly, but I really don't care that much about iTunes' free weekly singles. In fact, stream those!
For music, discs are certainly an endangered species; for movies, I'd say a threatened species. If your assessment that it will only take two years for cloud offerings to surpass disc offerings by way of PQ and AQ, then okay "endangered". Maybe. I still think discs have a longer life expectancy than that.
Plus, there are millions of people who don't have the fast, reliable internet access needed for the type of streaming you're talking about. Many of them, particularly those living in rural areas, probably won't even get it in the foreseeable future. And they don't have any choice about it; ISPs simply don't service their areas well, if at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMc
I am an engineer with some 35yrs professional experience so I do understand your argument, but what I have used for many years in a macpro logic studio is now becoming Web cloud based mainstream for everyone to enjoy online on reasonably priced as well as top end home theatre setups that are going to have access to every market including iTunes with studio quality HD video and audio on demand from various facilitators, including Disney and Pixar.
Great! Bring it on! I welcome it. Again, I still think the possession aspect of ownership carries more weight with many consumers than you're giving credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMc
The only hold up from this future are those who can't see the benefits in the short term during such a transitional phase because they are so attached to over-burdened legacy devices.
I think there are other technical, practical, and logistical hold ups than just "sentimental" people like me, namely bandwidth and access to that bandwidth. As you said though, that's changing. Still, there is a place for sentimentality, and legacy devices too for that matter. And as far as recognition of, and respect for, such things fit into their business models, forward thinking companies like Apple are wise to consider them as they "improve" the landscape of how consumers enjoy their media and interact with the technology used to bring it to them. Consider: touch screens and multi-touch gestures are the way of the future too, but no company, not even Apple, is going to eliminate physical keyboards or mice any time soon, if at all. Some leaps are going to take longer than others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMc
From my perspective 2012 is going to provide a major generational shift in the converging computer video experience and its time to get used to the idea of change now or get left behind, it's your choice!.
I agree that the next couple of years will garner a "major generational shift" in our interaction with media and the technology that connects us to it. Apple, its iPhone and iPad, iOS, Mac OS X Lion and the anticipated convergence of desktop and mobile platforms, as well as their increasingly improving HIGs, will continue blurring the line. Conversely, the public's rejection of concepts like GoogleTV will continue to serve as reminders that not all convergences are useful or desired, no matter how logical the evolution may seem.
I don't have a problem with the idea of change. But change for change's sake is unwise. I also don't think the issue is as urgent as your last sentence implies. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of years.
"... proposed online services aimed at acting as a convenient option for users to store their purchased music in the cloud for network access while mobile".
Isn't mobile using an iPhone or iPod, which are mobile devices, which store all the music, which doesn't require a network connection?
The cloud is indeed, cloudy.
Depending how big your iPhone is and how many songs you have there not necessarily going to fit.
I always get a little concerned when someone regimentally dissects ones opinions sentence by sentence rather than to just respond with an alternative point of view but ok I can live with that, you also have a strong entitled opinion, but should the world of computing evolution be held up by those who won't allow change.
If what you already have is good enough for you then enjoy.
It seems to me that cloud computing is all about variety of the convergence experience that would lead you to shopping for the related materiel and in this "here now" world we live in few are going to wait outside the shop in future for a nondescript box that is no longer sold because the product in all its glitteratii is only sold downloadable online.
The financial advantage is put back into the pockets of the originating artists who can use the likes of itunes to sell their musical or video creations to the world direct with their supporting website to peddle further "collectable" merchandise which combined with HD video content and 5ch surround from cloud computing to any devise you own with out breaking anyones harddisk bank has to be a major step forward which will in time lead to groups social video channels akin to the next step of Facebook.
So computers/screens of the future will become intelligent cloud app's terminals,
I always get a little concerned when someone regimentally dissects ones opinions sentence by sentence rather than to just respond with an alternative point of view but ok I can live with that, you also have a strong entitled opinion, but should the world of computing evolution be held up by those who won't allow change.
If what you already have is good enough for you then enjoy.
It seems to me that cloud computing is all about variety of the convergence experience that would lead you to shopping for the related materiel and in this "here now" world we live in few are going to wait outside the shop in future for a nondescript box that is no longer sold because the product in all its glitteratii is only sold downloadable online.
The financial advantage is put back into the pockets of the originating artists who can use the likes of itunes to sell their musical or video creations to the world direct with their supporting website to peddle further "collectable" merchandise which combined with HD video content and 5ch surround from cloud computing to any devise you own with out breaking anyones harddisk bank has to be a major step forward which will in time lead to groups social video channels akin to the next step of Facebook.
So computers/screens of the future will become intelligent cloud app's terminals,
You had a lot of good points and I wanted to address them, but I'll try to be more succinct for you. I get the impression you think I'm disagreeing with you about the transition we're witnessing or that I'm opposed to the coming of cloud computing, neither of which are the case. I just don't think the transition will be as rapid, or as absolute, as you're suggested/insisting. Time will tell.
Dana, your most probably right, whilst we do posses the technology even today of presenting professional services direct to cloud distribution, it does remain the downstream dissemination restrictions that dictate the timeline involved.
However infrastructure is undergoing large scale data-center redevelopment and rewiring through optical fibres to cope with higher download speed and volume of service demanded by HD sound and video and the ISPs will have to ease their constriction of service practice as demand grows, so cloud services will become available to higher end users firstly within citys this year and to the worldwide masses as rollout progresses which as you point out may take considerably longer, its a transition phase for business as well as end user that may take many years to realize its potential,
All I'm saying is for those who have the link and can afford the like of apple computers and theatre systems will realize realtime online cloud HD convergence replacing the need Bluray or local mass storage within the next 12 months so there is my prediction, time will tell.
You may have already seen this, Allan, but this 24-Bit Downloads article was featured in my most recent Sound+Vision Mag email. Butterworth even opines that the fact that we're even having this conversation is a "minor miracle." The link in Butterworth's conclusion to another article, The REAL Death Of The Music Industry, is more on topic and adds even more curiosity to the issue. As an audiophile, I honestly hope you're right in that the infrastructure behind the distribution streams outpaces demand and higher quality content becomes the norm, even if the majority of users don't seem to care.
Comments
I dont think its a matter of outright costs, more psychological marketing - people will tend to buy three things for £/$5, but will think twice about buying 2 for £/$7.00. AngryBirds is a case in point, they sell millions of copies for 0.59p, if it was 1.59 then it would have sold a lot less.
Apologies for currency translation issues.
I agree that the OP's point was that there is a psychological barrier between the two prices. It's common sense though - most things you see at the supermarket are $x.99.
Most people can afford the thirty cents difference between the old iTunes price and the new. Personally the new price rips my undies every time I buy a song, but that is probably because of my distaste for the insidious greed of the labels.
Spotify isn't available where you live, is it?
If you were living in Sweden, Norway, the UK etc where it is available you would have seen how fast Spotify has dramatically changed people's music habits and attitude towards buying music.
No, it's changed the music habits of a subsection of people who work in media and kept money out of the hands of the artists.
I know I don't want it. As I'm in the uk I use spotify, it's beyond awesome. All apple need to do is clone it, then add access the the entire iTunes catalogue and most spotify users would switch in a second. I know I would.
I consume so much more new music thanks to spotify, as you haven't got the price tag to consider when trying out new music.
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Here in Canada, high speed internet connection comes with tethers brought to you by the major ISP players.
Getting 10, 15, 25 or even 50Mbps download speeds is possible. The problem is that you can do it UP TO a point. Say, at 16Mbps (that i currently pay 49$/month and has a 600kps up speed) i get 90GB of traffic. That's UP/DOWN traffic. I could download more... I could potentially download UNLIMITED amount of data... for 60$ more. That's getting pricy.
Add to this that, unless you download using standard methods not perceived as 'mass download and piracy' techniques (read torrent) your speed will be fine. If you chose to download something like say... Linux via torrent, well, you can count on being limited to 50kbps at peak times. I'm not talking about downloading the latest Batman movie here... just USING torrent.
Now, music in the cloud... Each time i want to listen to my music, i'll be checking how much bandwidth i have left. I don't and go over board... ISP will come and politely ask me to ... pay up.
I love Apple... but, my music will stay @ home guys. I'll just copy to my iDevice what i want to listen to and voila... to me, as long as i can't use the Net freely without incurring the ISP tax... i'll stick to what works. Why fix what's not broken?
P.S.: I'm not even going to talk about GSM download rates.... iPhone streaming of my iTunes music in a subway that i have no reception anyway... Not adding up...
Cloud computing whether we like it or not is where we are going into the future, and all recorded mediums and peripheral devises are on the change, hence the reasoning behind Apples refusal to adopt Bluray,
The latest MacBook pro doesnt yet tick all the boxes but by 2012 it will be doing so with no mechanical drives just ssd, and hopefully the isps will be better aligned onboard by then too or apple may decide to take the lead that way too.
because of out of range inconsistency there will always be the need to download a held copy unless the world coverage by Satellite transmission takes over which would technically require a near impossible micro up /down stream equipment redesign, "beam me up Scotty"
But cloud computing would only require that you had interaction devices rather than megalumps of machinery in the home that would be much better for the environment especially the illumination of CDs DVDs Blurays recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it, as all this would be done online virtually from the artist to millions of customers, byby EMI, Warner, and friends your back catalogues are nice.
The end result would change the face of entertainment hence the pockets of resistance are feuding for their right to exist in an ever evolving world and are in the gravest danger of being simply left behind.
But cloud computing would only require that you had interaction devices rather than megalumps of machinery in the home that would be much better for the environment especially the illumination of CDs DVDs Blurays recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it, as all this would be done online virtually from the artist to millions of customers, byby EMI, Warner, and friends your back catalogues are nice.
The end result would change the face of entertainment hence the pockets of resistance are feuding for their right to exist in an ever evolving world and are in the gravest danger of being simply left behind.
First, speaking for home theater enthusiasts, our "?[media], recorders and players and all the plastic and paper rubbish with it?" are not "rubbish" to us, despite your disinterest in, or objection to, those things. Cloud streaming has a LONG way to go to even compete with blu-ray audio and video quality, properly implemented. Not that it won't ever get there, but it's not there yet and probably won't be for many years. Many home theater installations rival commercial cinemas in picture and sound quality (not to mention interior design and construction). Take a look at what some people do with their home theaters and with what you call "rubbish".
Second, I don't think end users represent "pockets of resistance ? feuding" for our collective right to stave off technological evolution in favor of our current collection of satisfying gadgets and sources of entertainment. Some of us here are merely pointing out the fact that the cloud streaming argument, as it has thus far been presented, doesn't answer some basic questions of how it will be implemented and address the obvious and immediate concerns related to large media libraries containing material not found on iTunes' servers for myriad reasons.
Third, I think for many, there's a satisfaction that comes with actually possessing the media you own. I'm all for streaming (music and movies), but then there's my personal collection? things that I want to own. For me, and I suspect others, that means I want the satisfaction of knowing that I literally "have" it? that it's physically with me? not accessible depending on my cloud connection, but with me. Childish perhaps, but as a Pixar fan I hope you can cut me some slack.
The cloud-computing concept has great promise, and I welcome its measured implementation, but I remain a bit skeptical of some of the practical implications. And in any event, I don't view it to be the end all be all for everyone's needs or desires, at least not in the near future.
We made you freaking rich (label execs), now do something to pay us back or we will continue to ruin your industry and your chances for turning in your leased 2009 black BMW 750i for the 2011 black BMW 750i that you deserve so badly.
Well...the heads of the four remaining large labels may be rich, but their companies aren't. The record industry is in free-fall. The peak year for the U.S. record industry was 1999, when it did $14.585 billion in sales (at list prices). In 2009 (2010 numbers aren't out yet, but they're probably worse), it did $7.778 billion (only 53% of its peak) and that doesn't even include inflation (which would place the industry at 40% of its 1999 peak).
And what's killed the industry isn't so much that we've moved to virtual formats, it's that the industry has moved back to mostly selling singles as opposed to albums. That worked back in the 1950s-early 1960s when a pop artist would go in the studio and record three tracks in two hours and have the record on the streets two weeks later, but it's unsustainable for the way artists record today, especially the big artists who obsess over their music for a year and record/mix/master with multiple studios and multiple engineers/producers. The decline of radio hasn't helped much either, since radio, for the most part, no longer sells product. And I suppose one can also make the case that there's lack of interest because the artists are not producing a lot of compelling music.
Citibank had to take over EMI and they immediately put it up for sale in order to beat Time Warner putting Warner music up for sale. You are getting your wish - it's already over for the big record labels and in spite of the fact that they have mostly put out crap for the last decade or more, that's still a very sad state of affairs.
In theory I can understand Apple wanting direct downloads to be the primary model - and supplement it with streamable access to a library. But ultimately they must be seeing the trend of people's libraries outgrowing their hard drives. When my sister and fiance of all people (non-tech-savvy social workers) have gotten to the point where they can't purchase anymore music/tv because their Macs are already too full with iTunes downloads, photos and HD home videos - then Apple knows they have a problem.
Well it depends: Apple supposedly doesn't make all that much profit on iTunes - it's all about selling hardware. And if a lack of HD space means that people replace their Macs with bigger Macs and their iPods/iPhones with bigger devices, that's all good for Apple. Even if only 1/10th of the people who are running out of space buy one new device, that's far more profit for Apple than selling another 100 tracks per person.
You can redownload apps, you can redownload books, but you can't redownload music and movies, nor can you stream them to a device you already own without first syncing it back to a PC that has a copy already stored on it. It's lame, and I hope that changes.
Lets say there are benefits from cloud computing that will become clearer to folk as it unravels over the next two years, for eg: Steve Jobs is negotiating 192khz 24 bit sound file downloads similar to FLACK files that will exceed Bluray or SAC-d streamed through Wi-hi-fi devices that will augment modernizing the theatre / HI-Fi world, and 1080P is already a streaming standard beyond the reproductive quality on many such even top end home theatre setups, Discs are an endangered species! your personal library can exist in cyberspace with various download preferences to load different reading, viewing or listening to your relevant devices.
I am an engineer with some 35yrs professional experience so I do understand your argument, but what I have used for many years in a macpro logic studio is now becoming Web cloud based mainstream for everyone to enjoy online on reasonably priced as well as top end home theatre setups that are going to have access to every market including iTunes with studio quality HD video and audio on demand from various facilitators, including Disney and Pixar.
The only hold up from this future are those who can't see the benefits in the short term during such a transitional phase because they are so attached to over-burdened legacy devices.
From my perspective 2012 is going to provide a major generational shift in the converging computer video experience and its time to get used to the idea of change now or get left behind, it's your choice!.
Ok Dana perhaps I am going a little too quick for some who are possessive over their materiel offerings along with their music and video preferences all and much more of which will be interactively available direct from the artists and producers web site offerings.
Perhaps, Allan, but I'd argue that, for some, the material offerings associated with their favorite films (including copies of the films themselves) are intrinsically valuable, whether they're available from the cloud or not, or even how quickly that access becomes available. The same applies to music, though maybe to a lesser degree.
A recent example is the BD release of Fantasia/Fantasia 2000. Disney opted to provide the bulk of the supplemental package through the Disney Digital Vault (BD-Live) rather than include that material on the physical discs as they had previously done with the Fantasia Anthology DVD several years ago. Presumably, this was partly a manufacturing-cost-savings measure. And while accessing those supplements isn't a terrible inconvenience, many, myself included, would have preferred to have the material simply included, or at least had the option of purchasing those supplements on a disc (even if it was something we had to send away for).
Regardless, this is representative of the progress you're talking about. And it's not, in and of itself, unwelcome. But in some instances, such as with Disney Classics like Fantasia, some would prefer the physical over the cloud. Admittedly, such preferences are subjective, but, particularly in this transitional stage when the quality of the physical (e.g., DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 and other lossless audio codecs) generally surpasses the quality, or at least the streaming constraints, of the cloud (e.g., limited to, or only offering, Dolby Digital 5.1 or 2.0 lossy audio), it's preferable to still have a choice.
Lets say there are benefits from cloud computing that will become clearer to folk as it unravels over the next two years, for eg: Steve Jobs is negotiating 192khz 24 bit sound file downloads similar to FLACK files that will exceed Bluray or SAC-d streamed through Wi-hi-fi devices that will augment modernizing the theatre / HI-Fi world, and 1080P is already a streaming standard beyond the reproductive quality on many such even top end home theatre setups, Discs are an endangered species! your personal library can exist in cyberspace with various download preferences to load different reading, viewing or listening to your relevant devices.
There are absolutely benefits! I'm certainly not trying to imply that there aren't. If I did, I didn't state myself clearly. I saw the report that iTunes may start providing 192kHz/24 bit sound files. That'd be wonderful! As it is, I import everything Apple Lossless. But again, that high quality is a matter of choice. Music I take the time to collect gets imported losslessly, but I really don't care that much about iTunes' free weekly singles. In fact, stream those!
For music, discs are certainly an endangered species; for movies, I'd say a threatened species. If your assessment that it will only take two years for cloud offerings to surpass disc offerings by way of PQ and AQ, then okay "endangered". Maybe. I still think discs have a longer life expectancy than that.
Plus, there are millions of people who don't have the fast, reliable internet access needed for the type of streaming you're talking about. Many of them, particularly those living in rural areas, probably won't even get it in the foreseeable future. And they don't have any choice about it; ISPs simply don't service their areas well, if at all.
I am an engineer with some 35yrs professional experience so I do understand your argument, but what I have used for many years in a macpro logic studio is now becoming Web cloud based mainstream for everyone to enjoy online on reasonably priced as well as top end home theatre setups that are going to have access to every market including iTunes with studio quality HD video and audio on demand from various facilitators, including Disney and Pixar.
Great! Bring it on! I welcome it. Again, I still think the possession aspect of ownership carries more weight with many consumers than you're giving credit.
The only hold up from this future are those who can't see the benefits in the short term during such a transitional phase because they are so attached to over-burdened legacy devices.
I think there are other technical, practical, and logistical hold ups than just "sentimental" people like me, namely bandwidth and access to that bandwidth. As you said though, that's changing. Still, there is a place for sentimentality, and legacy devices too for that matter. And as far as recognition of, and respect for, such things fit into their business models, forward thinking companies like Apple are wise to consider them as they "improve" the landscape of how consumers enjoy their media and interact with the technology used to bring it to them. Consider: touch screens and multi-touch gestures are the way of the future too, but no company, not even Apple, is going to eliminate physical keyboards or mice any time soon, if at all. Some leaps are going to take longer than others.
From my perspective 2012 is going to provide a major generational shift in the converging computer video experience and its time to get used to the idea of change now or get left behind, it's your choice!.
I agree that the next couple of years will garner a "major generational shift" in our interaction with media and the technology that connects us to it. Apple, its iPhone and iPad, iOS, Mac OS X Lion and the anticipated convergence of desktop and mobile platforms, as well as their increasingly improving HIGs, will continue blurring the line. Conversely, the public's rejection of concepts like GoogleTV will continue to serve as reminders that not all convergences are useful or desired, no matter how logical the evolution may seem.
I don't have a problem with the idea of change. But change for change's sake is unwise. I also don't think the issue is as urgent as your last sentence implies. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of years.
"... proposed online services aimed at acting as a convenient option for users to store their purchased music in the cloud for network access while mobile".
Isn't mobile using an iPhone or iPod, which are mobile devices, which store all the music, which doesn't require a network connection?
The cloud is indeed, cloudy.
Depending how big your iPhone is and how many songs you have there not necessarily going to fit.
If what you already have is good enough for you then enjoy.
It seems to me that cloud computing is all about variety of the convergence experience that would lead you to shopping for the related materiel and in this "here now" world we live in few are going to wait outside the shop in future for a nondescript box that is no longer sold because the product in all its glitteratii is only sold downloadable online.
The financial advantage is put back into the pockets of the originating artists who can use the likes of itunes to sell their musical or video creations to the world direct with their supporting website to peddle further "collectable" merchandise which combined with HD video content and 5ch surround from cloud computing to any devise you own with out breaking anyones harddisk bank has to be a major step forward which will in time lead to groups social video channels akin to the next step of Facebook.
So computers/screens of the future will become intelligent cloud app's terminals,
I always get a little concerned when someone regimentally dissects ones opinions sentence by sentence rather than to just respond with an alternative point of view but ok I can live with that, you also have a strong entitled opinion, but should the world of computing evolution be held up by those who won't allow change.
If what you already have is good enough for you then enjoy.
It seems to me that cloud computing is all about variety of the convergence experience that would lead you to shopping for the related materiel and in this "here now" world we live in few are going to wait outside the shop in future for a nondescript box that is no longer sold because the product in all its glitteratii is only sold downloadable online.
The financial advantage is put back into the pockets of the originating artists who can use the likes of itunes to sell their musical or video creations to the world direct with their supporting website to peddle further "collectable" merchandise which combined with HD video content and 5ch surround from cloud computing to any devise you own with out breaking anyones harddisk bank has to be a major step forward which will in time lead to groups social video channels akin to the next step of Facebook.
So computers/screens of the future will become intelligent cloud app's terminals,
You had a lot of good points and I wanted to address them, but I'll try to be more succinct for you. I get the impression you think I'm disagreeing with you about the transition we're witnessing or that I'm opposed to the coming of cloud computing, neither of which are the case. I just don't think the transition will be as rapid, or as absolute, as you're suggested/insisting. Time will tell.
However infrastructure is undergoing large scale data-center redevelopment and rewiring through optical fibres to cope with higher download speed and volume of service demanded by HD sound and video and the ISPs will have to ease their constriction of service practice as demand grows, so cloud services will become available to higher end users firstly within citys this year and to the worldwide masses as rollout progresses which as you point out may take considerably longer, its a transition phase for business as well as end user that may take many years to realize its potential,
All I'm saying is for those who have the link and can afford the like of apple computers and theatre systems will realize realtime online cloud HD convergence replacing the need Bluray or local mass storage within the next 12 months so there is my prediction, time will tell.