Apple adds SSD TRIM support to Mac OS X 10.7 Lion beta

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zc456 View Post


    Why didn't they add this in the beginning? They've been supporting SSDs in their Macs since Leopard, maybe even earlier.



    Because mac OS X is on "pause" while "the guy" at apple is busy working on the ipad/phone/pod. Amazing and magical that TRIM support is not considered to be part of the Leopard optimization, such as Snow Leopard was dubbed.
  • Reply 22 of 63
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post


    This is so freaking great, I can't even express.



    Yeah, I really like it. I remember in the "old days" having to get online on another computer if you ever got stuck in the middle of the recovery process to find instructions - or even worse, having to locate that dang install cd if you ever needed disk utility.



    I recommend backing up the OS installer(I saved mine on my iPod classic - disk mode) because if your hard drive crashes, the Recovery drive alone does you no good. And if you notice, Apple is only allowing you to download the OS once.
  • Reply 23 of 63
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    So what is the benefit of SSDs really? I mean, I keep hearing that in practice they are no faster than conventional HDs, they can't take as many rewrite cycles and you can't retrieve deleted files. Did I mention they are bloody expensive too?

    Can someone clarify why on earth anybody would want to use them?



    No faster than conventional HDs? Dude...
  • Reply 24 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    So what is the benefit of SSDs really? I mean, I keep hearing that in practice they are no faster than conventional HDs, they can't take as many rewrite cycles and you can't retrieve deleted files. Did I mention they are bloody expensive too?

    Can someone clarify why on earth anybody would want to use them?



    First time you use a machine that has one you will understand... and never want to go back to a spinning disk again.
  • Reply 25 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    So what is the benefit of SSDs really?



    faster access to data and a reduction in power requirements are two (2) benefits over traditional block i/o hard drives.
  • Reply 26 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    So what is the benefit of SSDs really? I mean, I keep hearing that in practice they are no faster than conventional HDs, they can't take as many rewrite cycles and you can't retrieve deleted files. Did I mention they are bloody expensive too?

    Can someone clarify why on earth anybody would want to use them?



    WHY? By FAR, this has been the most significant upgrade I've made, including complete machine upgrades. SSD random read writes are several 100x faster then standard HD. Sustained read writes are significantly faster as well.



    I have a MBP with 8gb of RAM. There are NO spinning beach balls....ever. Applications open before the icon reaches the apex of it's bounce and quit just as quickly. I remember being able to see the Finder update icons, no longer. Parallels screams. I can use Windows 7 and Windows XP with no lag between virtual machines or OSX. Boot times are ridiculously fast as well (though my current uptime is 22days 2 hours and 54 minutes.



    I will NEVER use a standard HD again.
  • Reply 27 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    The Trim support is nice, but the shocker to me was the Recovery HD. Apparently, when you install Lion, it automatically makes a recovery partition for Recovery Mode and Disk Utilities ... This is further proof(to me) that Apple plans to abandon optical drives in the future.



    i don't necessarily agree that support for recovery partitions in 10.7 is evidence that Apple plans to abandon optical drives. if the storage medium (usually a hard disk) on which the recovery partition fails, you'll need an external / removable source. nowadays it's likely an optical disk.
  • Reply 28 of 63
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    The Trim support is nice, but the shocker to me was the Recovery HD. Apparently, when you install Lion, it automatically makes a recovery partition for Recovery Mode and Disk Utilities. So now you don't need a disc to enter Recovery - all you do now is "option boot.





    Cool so now I can break into our IT guy's mac instantly instead of hunting down a boot CD. Last time he went on vacation he forgot to tell anyone that he put a password on a computer that we needed access to. You need those utilities to change the password if you don't know it.
  • Reply 29 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toyin View Post


    WHY? By FAR, this has been the most significant upgrade I've made, including complete machine upgrades. SSD random read writes are several 100x faster then standard HD. Sustained read writes are significantly faster as well.



    I have a MBP with 8gb of RAM. There are NO spinning beach balls....ever. Applications open before the icon reaches the apex of it's bounce and quit just as quickly. I remember being able to see the Finder update icons, no longer. Parallels screams. I can use Windows 7 and Windows XP with no lag between virtual machines or OSX. Boot times are ridiculously fast as well (though my current uptime is 22days 2 hours and 54 minutes.



    I will NEVER use a standard HD again.



    You all are getting me so excited for my first SSD. I'm in for a maxed out 17", courtesy of my employer!
  • Reply 30 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mebbert View Post


    You all are getting me so excited for my first SSD. I'm in for a maxed out 17", courtesy of my employer!



    Don't get too excited. I did err. iPhoto launches in 1.5 bounces and I see the spinning circle (not the beach ball) for about 2 seconds before all 7000 photos are loaded.



    I'd consider my upgrade from a Performa 6500 to a Powermac Dual 500mhz G4 an equivalent upgrade...it's that good.
  • Reply 31 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    trim is very much required with all the flash going into apple notebooks. I thought they had implemented some rudimentary garbage collection behind under the hood, but unfortunately they haven't. The quality drop in my air ssd (11") is considerable without it.



    From Macworld.com



    MacBook air: Is Flash Storage Reliable?



    http://www.macworld.com/article/1562...turetests.html
  • Reply 32 of 63
    I too am confused with choosing a 256GB SSD vs. 1TB or 2TB Serial ATA Drive for my first iMac. The capacity difference seems very drastic despite the speed you all talk about. I'm going from a 128GB Serial ATA on my 6 year old Dell so switching to 1TB or 2TB on a Serial ATA IS HUGE. As opposed to going only 128GB to 256GB on a SSD. I need the storage. Perhaps, the option combining is best for me? The applications stored and open on the SSD and my files stored on the 1TB or 2TB? Or is the 256GB SSD comparable to 1TB Serial ATA?
  • Reply 33 of 63
    For those using SSDs, are you mainly using smaller drives as your Boot Drive and also for your applications? I'd much prefer to have an SSD that can hold all of my data than offset music files for examples, since I would lose a lot of the benefit. If I have all of my music on a second hard drive doesn't loading iTunes, for example, become close to the speed of running a regular hard drive?
  • Reply 34 of 63
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    The Trim support is nice, but the shocker to me was the Recovery HD. Apparently, when you install Lion, it automatically makes a recovery partition for Recovery Mode and Disk Utilities. So now you don't need a disc to enter Recovery - all you do now is "option boot. This is further proof(to me) that Apple plans to abandon optical drives in the future.



    Can you install 3rd party repair/recovery utilities in the recovery partition?
  • Reply 35 of 63
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 513member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post


    i don't necessarily agree that support for recovery partitions in 10.7 is evidence that Apple plans to abandon optical drives. if the storage medium (usually a hard disk) on which the recovery partition fails, you'll need an external / removable source. nowadays it's likely an optical disk.



    Considering how cheap the 8GB thumb drives are, I'd expect to see the move to that underway soon, particularly given that Apple now has machines that don't have optical drives. (No idea at what point booting for that became an option, clearly with the new Airs at the latest, but I'd imagine that will work on other newer models as well - there's bound to be a time with both DVD and thumb drive shipped, wonder if they'll just bundle them into one box or not..)



    And that's for people who need physical media. I'd expect they'll have a cheaper download-only upgrade option on the App Store.
  • Reply 36 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleConvertNJRob View Post


    I too am confused with choosing a 256GB SSD vs. 1TB or 2TB Serial ATA Drive for my first iMac. The capacity difference seems very drastic despite the speed you all talk about. I'm going from a 128GB Serial ATA on my 6 year old Dell so switching to 1TB or 2TB on a Serial ATA IS HUGE. As opposed to going only 128GB to 256GB on a SSD. I need the storage. Perhaps, the option combining is best for me? The applications stored and open on the SSD and my files stored on the 1TB or 2TB? Or is the 256GB SSD comparable to 1TB Serial ATA?



    I wouldn't break the bank on an SSD for an iMac. I'd get a smaller SSD for the OS and applications. 128gb would be more then enough. Then use an external HD for your home folder and files.



    Similarly there are those replacing their MBP optical drive with a large traditional drive and using a smaller SSD drive for the OS and applications.
  • Reply 37 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toyin View Post


    Similarly there are those replacing their MBP optical drive with a large traditional drive and using a smaller SSD drive for the OS and applications.



    I do this now on my MBP but I went larger than the 128 because in addition to OS and Apps, I run a few VMs from the SSD. I'm hoping that Apple supports TRIM on third party SSD. Ones Apple ships are not the fastest.



    I should throw lion on and see if TRIM works on the Intel Gen 2.
  • Reply 38 of 63
    dishdish Posts: 64member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    So what is the benefit of SSDs really? I mean, I keep hearing that in practice they are no faster than conventional HDs, they can't take as many rewrite cycles and you can't retrieve deleted files. Did I mention they are bloody expensive too?

    Can someone clarify why on earth anybody would want to use them?



    I don't know where you've been getting your information from but I would stop listening to them, I've never heard any one say "in practice they are no faster" and I've been using SSD at home and at work for about 2 years now....it is A LOT faster than HDD. Also with my work laptop I'm no longer afraid to undock and walk around with it still on since there is no harddrive with moving parts to get messed up as I walk. I'm in IT and I see a lot of bad HDD drives that have been killed because the user drives or walks around with the laptop on and not in standby/sleep mode. When I bought my iMac last April the very first thing I did was crack it open and swap out the HDD with an SSD. The SSDs that I have used in my home computers dont see much rewriting because I keep my files on a NAS, but the SSD drives I use at work get seriously abused...mostly because I want to see if I can kill them. From my experience this fear of limited rewrites is drastically exaggerated. I will never use another HDD in a computer again.



    Also my company will be deploying new laptops with SSD drives to about 200 of our employees this summer. This particular group of employees has over 200 HDD replacements in the last 3 years. When we first started seeing the problem we contacted Dell and IBM thinking the harddrives were defective. they sent us several boxes of spare drivers from multiple vendors for us to use to swap out bad ones as they came in. Well we still have drives going bad...the problem is because these users need to have their laptops mounted in their vehicle while turned on and apparently the mount is subject to extreme vibration which consequently has been killing the drives. So needless to say SSD drives wont have this problem since there are no moving parts.
  • Reply 39 of 63
    Good news for the world's most advanced OS.
  • Reply 40 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post


    It's not just OWC drives, but any SSD with a SandForce controller. They are pretty nice drives though. They even make special ones to be used in RAID arrays.



    OWC SSD



    Serious question: How can you tell if your OWC does indeed have Sandforce? I bought mine a year or so ago and I don't recall reading anything about Sandforce. Looking at my Apple Profile doesn't show anything either:



    OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD:



    Capacityt120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)

    ModeltOWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD

    Revisiont310A13F0

    Serial NumbertMX12010E23A0806

    Native Command QueuingtYes

    Queue Deptht32

    Removable MediatNo

    Detachable DrivetNo

    BSD Nametdisk0

    Medium TypetSolid State

    TRIM SupporttNo

    Bay NametLower

    Partition Map TypetGPT (GUID Partition Table)

    S.M.A.R.T. statustVerified
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