Please share your experiences on how flash based websites that are designed for a desktop scale and work on a small screen touch based device.
The ones I have seen look exactly like the desktop version. Framerates are slower on some of them (flash video inside the browser is about half the normal frame rate IMO). Flash menus look exactly the same. Flash animations (like cartoons and stuff) look the same. Flash games will sometimes look the same, and other times suffer frame rate slowdown like the videos. It depends on the game. I am not a Flash programmer, so I dont know why specifically.
Quote:
I use a Samsung Galaxy Android phone. I hate it, but need it for work. Battery life is laughable if I use it for data. Tried the same thing on an iPhone and it makes me jealous.
Kinda ironic that the Galaxy S phones are the ones I actually want the most right now. That super AMOLED screen is pretty sweet...you will not see blacks that deep on any other phone, including the iPhone.
Not that the iPhone4 doesnt have a sweet display...but if I had to choose, I would choose Super AMOLED. Movies just look amazing on that thing. And it is REALLY bright, even compared to LCD displays. I think it also has the best single core processor right now. It's 3D hardware is better than the iPhone's and every other single-core Android phone as well.
(And they are very very rootable, which is a big deal to me personally)
I totally understand about battery life. I guess I dont notice it much since I am so used to plugging my phone in constantly anyway (just a habit I had to form...all smartphones are battery hogs). If I was in a situation where I could not charge my phone for a long time I think I'd rather have a removable battery that I could swap out and take spares with me. The iPhone4 probably does have better battery life, but not on the order of 4 or 6 hours more.
Quote:
The battery life and performance of the phone went up after I rooted it. Makes you wonder what the manufacturers and Google are upto.
My Droid stayed about the same, but I am also overclocking it to 1ghz...if I had left it at the stock clock speed I probably would have gotten better battery life too.
I dont know how rooting alone would change battery life. A custom ROM could change it by changing the way GPS works or messing with the voltage on the CPU or whatever.
Quote:
I don't know if the iPhone processor is just much slower or what
I used to think it was, but it's not. The iPhone4's processor is actually a rebranded version of the one in the Galaxy S phones, and is pretty quick. It's 3D hardware isnt as good, but it is otherwise comparable to the 1ghz Android phones. There are several single core Android phones that are faster though. And of course all the dual core phones will be faster.
And yeah, the iPhone4 could handle Flash just fine. And Widgets. And Live Wallpaper. Steve Jobs doesnt like Flash because he considers it obsolete, and he thinks you should too, so no Flash on the iPhone. Widgets and Wallpapers were probably design decisions (he didnt think they would ensure an "Apple" experience or whatever). But Flash is PURELY an ideological one...he thinks HTML5 (an open standard) should be what everyone uses, not Flash (which is technically proprietary, even though it is also ubiquitous).
All Android phones can run both HTML5 and Flash (2.2 and higher).
Quote:
The Droid 2 Global's CPU is only 1.2 ghz. So roughly comparable to iPhone 4.
No, it is faster. The OMAP processor has better 3D support too.
Quote:
I did get the extended battery, though.
Yep...another advantage of having removable batteries...you can replace the stock one with a better after market one.
Quote:
And I expect with 2.3 and Flash 10.2 it'll be even better.
I am running 2.3 now. I have not noticed an improvement in Flash performance. 2.3 Mostly has UI changes. Menus are a lot cleaner and faster and more polished. It does run a little better than 2.2 performance-wise. I get 24-bit color on my Droid 1's desktop now (which I love because I am a graphics nerd). And of course it has the blindtype keyboard, which is pretty sweet.
Google makes money off ads. Why would it keep their services and web apps off other platforms? I highly doubt it's their fault. I would image it's Apple and the other platforms that are blocking Google apps for some reason. (Why I can't imagine, though. Google Nav OWNS as you mentioned, it's killer for sure)
I think you misunderstood my point. Google Maps and several Google apps are available for other platforms, it's just that the navigation feature is missing. Moreover, as far as I know (which isn't necessarily saying much) the navigation has nothing to do with ads or ad revenue.
I think you misunderstood my point. Google Maps and several Google apps are available for other platforms, it's just that the navigation feature is missing. Moreover, as far as I know (which isn't necessarily saying much) the navigation has nothing to do with ads or ad revenue.
Navigation is Maps on steroids. I can hold Home and say "Where is the nearest [insert nearly anything] and get turn-by-turn to it. Like all Google services, it's a gateway to ads. It's a service, but also laden with ads. Which I don't mind. Because when I want gas or food or whatever, who's going to have better info than Google. Google isn't making money off Android OS they are making money on ads (which would be in Navigation on iPhone if Steve would allow it.)
i currently have a HTC Desire Z/G2 flashed with CM7rc1. ive been using/developing android since i received a Devphone1 G1 a few years ago when Android first hit the market.
but never did my choice of android ever make me feel inadequate enough to post about it on any Apple oriented forums. i keep my Android based posts to XDA-Devs.
but hey... if the platform's recent achievement of outselling RIM in the past quarter makes you feel better for some reason, more power to you.
i currently have a HTC Desire Z/G2 flashed with CM7rc1. ive been using/developing android since i received a Devphone1 G1 a few years ago when Android first hit the market.
but never did my choice of android ever make me feel inadequate enough to post about it on any Apple oriented forums. i keep my Android based posts to XDA-Devs.
but hey... if the platform's recent achievement of outselling RIM in the past quarter makes you feel better for some reason, more power to you.
Last week I was interested in people's thoughts here on iPhone 4 vs. Android (and root vs jailbreak) because I wasn't sure if I would keep it. I'm going to keep it now. Now I'm interested in how other Android and Mac users are syncing the two platforms. I am thinking now either Missing Sync or Doubletwist look the best but I wish there was a free way to get it done. I mean contacts, email, media, the whole nine yards. So far, email is working fine on it. I haven't tried mucking with calendar->iCal etc. but from what i've read you can sync iCal to Google cal. Also you can drag media onto Droids as a mounted drive. Basically I wouldn't have a problem if stupid Motorola MediaLink would work. In fact I think I'm going to contact their support or check their forums out now..
The psychological prob with users of a brand is that they find it almost impossible to admit their brand's downsides. Which is why rarely anybody here 'confesses' to using or liking another brand.
The App Store is Apple's latest 'development' that makes me definitely not rule out Linux for a next machine: the App Store requires you to register your credit card details to even download FREE applications! That's absurd! Even if I've used, and enjoyed, dozens of Macs over the past 25 years!
Let's face it: when the fun is over, it is over!
I divorced my wife when the fun was over, so I'm not afraid to also divorce my computer or OS brand, if necessary!
Apple requires a credit card on account to verify your locale. This is to cover them for copyright and licensing across different world markets. It is to appease the publishers.
Its all about compromise, with Apple you have the locked down eco-system with the security that brings. With Google you have the 'open' eco-system and the risks that brings. Both have their benefits and drawbacks, neither is perfect.
Its quite funny how, when comparing sales figures, they compare platforms. The general public don't buy a 'platform' they buy a Samsung, because they want samsung, they buy LG, because they want LG they buy Blackberry because they want blackberry etc. They don't go out looking to buy an android phone.
Just spend a day in a mobile retail store and see exactly joe public is shopping for. As a platform android does well, why? because of the multitude of manufacturers and models of handset available. Compare a single manufacturer to Apple or RIM and they are nowhere in the smartphone market.
Ok, here's my opinion. Disclaimer: While I like Android more, I dont hate Apple. If I didnt own a Droid, I would own an iPhone. I think iPhones are awesome, I just think Android is even more awesomer. Here's why:
1 - Widgets. Yeah, I know you can get them on iOS via jailbreaking, but frankly, all the ones on iOS suck. My nephews have iTouches and Jailbroke them...the widgets they were able to get were a pale shadow of Android widgets, both in quality and quantity. Widgets are definitely something I would miss if I went to an iPhone. Another thing that is not exactly a widget but similar, is Launchers. These change the look and feel of the device. They control how your "desktop" looks and behaves. Right now I am using one called LaucherPro, which is far superior to the stock launcher. Its animation is as good as anything I have seen on an iPhone, and it contains many options the stock launcher lacks. Like widgets, these do not require rooting.
I've owned an android phone or two that I bought just to hack around and make sure I wasn't missing out on anything. I've own a G1, MyTouch, and Mytouch 3G slide.
I've never gotten the fascination with widgets. I suppose they are nice shortcuts to some rapidly used features and they show some minimal information to help get there, but if you didn't have to go into the app drawer to get anything, it probably wouldn't feel so awesome to have it on one of several home screens accessible. If there's a link to a video or something that shows something amazing, about this, I'll be happy to change my mind, but for now it just seems sort of wasteful and pointless.
Quote:
2 - Flash. Yeah, I know the story "OMG you dont need Flash anyway"...thats true. I hardly ever use it. But if I go to a website where I need it, I suddenly need it BAD. This has already happened to me in the days before I upgraded to Android 2.2 on my Droid 1...I went to a site with Flash menus or other flash content and could not see anything. I could use Skyfire to access videos, but that was it. It is something I did miss. It is not something I use all the time, but its something that I know I would miss the first time I did need it. Also the "OMG flash is sloooow anyway!" argument is stupid...on my Droid 1 it works fine for menus or videos or other content. It isnt great for games, but many Flash games do work even on my now-obsolete Droid 1.
Flash should be obsolete. Jobs is right to hold the line here. Of course the performance will eventually make the point moot, but that doesn't mean that flash is a good decision in the first place. It is an uncontrollable third party extension that can greatly impact performance. I'd rather Apple help everyone get it right than put up with a permanent kludge for convenience.
Quote:
3 - Censorship. This really bugs me about Apple...I dont like the idea of Apple censoring content I have access to just because it doesnt like the content. I feel that as an adult, if I want to download the "iBoobies" app (or whatever) I should be allowed to do so. Disallowing apps for competing products (say, Android magazines) really bothers me too.
Apple allows apps and HTML5. You can get whatever you want through the latter. Grandma's buying their grandkids iTune gift cards at Target are probably thrilled to know it won't be used to buy porn.
Quote:
4 - No drag and drop media. This would be another deal breaker for me. I am really used to just plugging my Droid into my computer via USB and using like a hard drive. The idea of having to "sync" every single file seems really annoying to me. I installed Dropbox on my nephew's iTouch a few weeks ago...I could not get it to actually download anything to the device. It would stream, but not download files. When I asked him what was wrong, he said "nothing". A few seconds later he asked me with a shocked look "You mean Android lets you actually DOWNLOAD stuff with that??". It was pretty funny. He actually thought that streaming instead of downloading was normal.
Dropbox says on their site it will download to iPhone. I know I have several apps that download or store information on the iPhone including Kindle and Audible. Better still iTunes backs up all the information from all these apps as well.
Quote:
5 - No expandability/removability. That was a huge plus for me in choosing Android. I have been using 16 gigs for the past year, but if I wanted to I could go to the store right now and double my memory. And I could do it all on my own...which is the other point. I dont need Apple to replace or upgrade my phone for me. No charge, no wait. I can buy after market batteries that are better than stock, or I can use more than one battery for long trips.
This is nice, but the unified treatment of phone memory and storage is a decent trade off as well. Most non-geeks don't want to try to remember how much storage their phone and card respectively have each and what is stored where and how.
Quote:
6 - Customization. I always thought it was ironic that Apple's commercials said "think different' yet they all looked the same. This is something that I admit is entirely subjective and not a functionality issue, but I like customizing my phone. Things like Live Wallpaper are just really neat (and like widgets, dont require rooting). I like customizing all the sounds and alerts as well.
Customization is nice but not quite the same on an object like the iPhone compared to a large desktop computer or laptop. Apple is beginning to listen in the areas of SMS tones, ringtones and ability to set how they work. Live wallpaper just seems ridiculous unless the screen is blank. I'm not a fan. Having used a Nokia and a Blackberry, sound profiles can rock, and I think Apple is doing some work here along with an improved notification system soon. There are minor quibbles compared to Android though where the largest app downloads are desktop replacements and desperate attempts to find a decently working keyboard. Sometimes customization is just finding a dozen additional things that don't work any better than a crappy native aspect of the system software.
Quote:
7 - Notification Bar. This is something I use constantly and would miss a lot. I can get to push content fast and easy and it is very intuitive to use.
I'd bet Apple hits this with the coming iOS5, but for now you are right they lag.
Quote:
8 - Android software. Various things like turn by turn directions, voice command support, ect. Google maps is well integrated and I use it all the time.
I believe Apple bought a mapping competitor. People are placing good bets on improvements in these areas as well. For now I use Dragon dicatation and MapQuest for Mobile which provides free turn by turn directions, lets you add additional points and does a great job for free.
Quote:
Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
No it isn't fragmentation because all things eventually wear out. Also I think you must mean second generation because a 3GS class iPod Touch is not at all slow. Since there are really no iPod class Android devices of that timeframe though, your point is pretty much moot. The Samsung Galaxy Player is the only one that exists for now and it's price isn't competitive with the iPod Touch. If you want to pay more to do less, that is your choice.
Quote:
Well, there are more, but those are the major things.
Like I said I do not hate Apple products. Apple beats the crap out of Blackberry, WebOS, Symbian and everything else. I dont want Apple to die (though I dont want them to be an industry standard either).
None of those are major things though. They amount to quibbles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic
Navigation is Maps on steroids. I can hold Home and say "Where is the nearest [insert nearly anything] and get turn-by-turn to it. Like all Google services, it's a gateway to ads. It's a service, but also laden with ads. Which I don't mind. Because when I want gas or food or whatever, who's going to have better info than Google. Google isn't making money off Android OS they are making money on ads (which would be in Navigation on iPhone if Steve would allow it.)
I'll take Mapquest for Mobile and have 95% of what you state right there while keeping uniformity and having a much better overall value and experience.
3 - Censorship. This really bugs me about Apple...I dont like the idea of Apple censoring content I have access to just because it doesnt like the content. I feel that as an adult, if I want to download the "iBoobies" app (or whatever) I should be allowed to do so. Disallowing apps for competing products (say, Android magazines) really bothers me too.
I haven't heard of any growing popularity with "iBoobie" apps on Android either. It makes me wonder what really is the demand for such things.
Quote:
No drag and drop media.[/B]I could not get it to actually download anything to the device. It would stream, but not download files. When I asked him what was wrong, he said "nothing". A few seconds later he asked me with a shocked look "You mean Android lets you actually DOWNLOAD stuff with that??". It was pretty funny. He actually thought that streaming instead of downloading was normal.
I don't use drop box. But of course their are apps that will download and store files on the iOS.
Is there a way to back up and completely restore everything for Android the way you can through iTunes?
Quote:
Flash. Yeah, I know the story "OMG you dont need Flash anyway"...thats true. I hardly ever use it. But if I go to a website where I need it, I suddenly need it BAD. This has already happened to me in the days before I upgraded to Android 2.2 on my Droid 1...I went to a site with Flash menus or other flash content and could not see anything.
Exactly what website is this? What website remains completely Flash only with no native app, no mobile version, and no HTML version?
Quote:
Also the "OMG flash is sloooow anyway!" argument is stupid...on my Droid 1 it works fine for menus or videos or other content. It isnt great for games, but many Flash games do work even on my now-obsolete Droid 1.
Not according to tech sites that have reviewed Flash on Android phones. They all generally say Flash uses a lot of the phones resources and sucks up battery life.
Quote:
No expandability/removability. That was a huge plus for me in choosing Android. I have been using 16 gigs for the past year, but if I wanted to I could go to the store right now and double my memory.
I honestly don't see the draw in dealing with memory cards. Its just more stuff to deal with. I really don't see you finding very many people who would agree with you on this one.
Quote:
Customization.[/B] I always thought it was ironic that Apple's commercials said "think different' yet they all looked the same. This is something that I admit is entirely subjective and not a functionality issue, but I like customizing my phone. Things like Live Wallpaper are just really neat (and like widgets, dont require rooting). I like customizing all the sounds and alerts as well.
You don't understand the context of what they mean by "think different". They aren't talking about customization.
What existed before Mac OS? What existed before the iPod? What existed before the iPhone? What existed before the iPad?
The answer to those questions is where you will find "think different".
Quote:
Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
That's not fragmentation. That's simply outdated hardware.
Fragmentation is when brand new phones are sold with three different versions of the same operating system at the same time.
You absolutely don't have to use a credit card to open an iTunes account (and be able to download free apps).
Just have a friend buy you a $10 iTunes Gift Certificate or buy yourself a $15 iTunes Gift Card, and you can register for iTunes without a credit card download free apps to your heart's content, and use the $10 or $15 for music or movies or paid apps.
I haven't heard of any growing popularity with "iBoobie" apps on Android either. It makes me wonder what really is the demand for such things.
The demand is not the point. The point is that Apple should not be making those decisions for you.
And really, that is what keeps me away from Apple more than anything else. Its not their hardware (which is often top notch) or even their software, despite the limitations I've listed. Its this nanny mentality that they know what is best for you. I dont want Apple thinking for me. I want to think different.
Quote:
I don't use drop box. But of course their are apps that will download and store files on the iOS.
And you have to jump through hoops to use them. IMO, this is something the OS itself should support. I should not have to jailbreak and install various workarounds just to get media onto my device.
Honestly, it seems really weird to me that Apple would not allow an app like Dropbox to actually save the data to the device. I mean, thats kinda the whole point of the app.
Quote:
Is there a way to back up and completely restore everything for Android the way you can through iTunes?
Probably. I have never had to do it myself, since I can just copy my entire MP3 folder to my computer via drag and drop. There are apps and services that will allow syncing in a way similar to iTunes.
I am a heavy user of iTunes actually. It has a vast selection that is better than any of it's competitors. I just dont want the app to control my library. So the first thing I do whenever I buy a song off of iTunes is convert it to MP3 and stick it in my private library.
Quote:
Exactly what website is this?
Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
Do they have an app? Do they have an alternate HTML/Mobile version? They might. But as an end user, I would like the choice of not being forced to dig for those things. I'd like the choice to be able to just view the website as is, just like it would appear on my desktop.
Quote:
Not according to tech sites that have reviewed Flash on Android phones.
I will take my own personal experience over review sites any day. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Quote:
They all generally say Flash uses a lot of the phones resources and sucks up battery life.
So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
Quote:
I honestly don't see the draw in dealing with memory cards. Its just more stuff to deal with.
How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
Maybe 16 gigs is plenty and I will never have to upgrade. Maybe I will decide later that it isnt enough. If I do, I have the option of swapping out a 32 gig SD card. How is that a bad thing? Whats the downside?
Quote:
You don't understand the context of what they mean by "think different". They aren't talking about customization.
Apparently not. "Think different" means "Think like Apple".
Quote:
What existed before Mac OS? What existed before the iPod? What existed before the iPhone? What existed before the iPad? The answer to those questions is where you will find "think different".
Apple did not invent the GUI interface. Apple did not invent MP3 players. Apple did not invent touch-screen phones. Apple did not invent tablet PCs.
Quote:
Me: Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
That's not fragmentation. That's simply outdated hardware.
How come that same argument does not apply to Android? All those charts showing the "fragmentation" of the platform are not showing just current devices. They are showing ALL Android devices in use, even hardware that has not been in production for a very long time.
So by your own definition, the Android market is not fragmented either.
Quote:
Fragmentation is when brand new phones are sold with three different versions of the same operating system at the same time.
Then Android has very little fragmentation. The vast majority of Android devices for sale right now are running Android 2.2.
Everyone I have shown them to is fascinated by them, because they are kinda neat. But I do use mine daily. Being able to get access to content at a glance without having to open an app for it is a definite luxury.
Quote:
Flash should be obsolete.
People (especially Apple people) keep making this argument as if it is relevant.
Yes, I agree it SHOULD be obsolete. But the reality is that it is not. Lots of websites still use it, and developers (for whatever reason) still want to use it. So I, as an end user, would like the option of being able to view those sites in the meantime.
Since my Droid supports HTML5 as well, I can view the new HTML5 sites as well. To me, that is the best solution because it is the solution that inconveniences me (the end user) the least.
Quote:
I'd rather Apple help everyone get it right than put up with a permanent kludge for convenience.
...which is an ideological choice. Most end users do not care about techie ideology. They just want to be able to view the site.
I agree with many of the Anti-flash arguments. But I dont think it should be up to Apple to push those decisions on me. I'd still like to choose for myself.
And if HTML5 is really better (and I agree that it is), then it is inevitable that it will supplant Flash anyway. Apple's pushy nanny mentality is unnecessary.
Quote:
Apple allows apps and HTML5. You can get whatever you want through the latter. Grandma's buying their grandkids iTune gift cards at Target are probably thrilled to know it won't be used to buy porn.
So I should not have access to iBoobies so that Grandma can rest easy? Why cant Apple just institute parental controls? Why is that alternative not acceptable?
Quote:
Dropbox says on their site it will download to iPhone.
I tried it about 3 weeks ago. When I did it on my nephew's iPod touch (3rd Gen), it would only stream. There were no controls that allowed it to download.
When I asked my nephews about it, they were shocked that Android allowed you to actually download stuff to the device like that. They said it was normal for iOS to disallow downloading for all Apps in general.
Quote:
This is nice, but the unified treatment of phone memory and storage is a decent trade off as well. Most non-geeks don't want to try to remember how much storage their phone and card respectively have each and what is stored where and how.
I dont know a single person who is not able manage their memory. Even non-geeks get it.
Quote:
Customization is nice but not quite the same on an object like the iPhone compared to a large desktop computer or laptop. Apple is beginning to listen in the areas of SMS tones, ringtones and ability to set how they work. Live wallpaper just seems ridiculous unless the screen is blank. I'm not a fan.
This is another argument that I hear from Apple people a lot: "Well Feature A is not something I personally want, therefore it is a good thing that Apple forbids me the option of using Feature A".
That really makes no sense to me at all. Fewer options is not good, even if you are able to tolerate fewer options.
Quote:
If you want to pay more to do less, that is your choice.
Oh the irony, heh heh
Quote:
I'd bet Apple hits this with the coming iOS5, but for now you are right they lag.
Apple implementing gestures for multitasking is a step in the right direction. But the Android notification bar is something I use constantly
Quote:
No it isn't fragmentation because all things eventually wear out.
Then I think it is disingenuous for people to count "all" Android devices in these fragmentation figures, when most of the ones using an older OS are not in production.
If you go to any verizon store, or T-Mobile store or whatever...the Android phones they have for sale are likely either running 2.2 or are upgradable to 2.2.
Last week I was interested in people's thoughts here on iPhone 4 vs. Android (and root vs jailbreak)
I have done both. My nephew's iPod's are both jailbroken.
First of all, I was frankly surprised at how easy it is to jailbreak. It was not as big a deal as I thought it would be. How very uncharacteristic of Apple!
However the benefits were also a lot less of a big deal than I expected. The stuff you can do with a Jailbreak is not that great IMO. You can approximate an Android experience, but its not even remotely the same. Widgets and live wallpapers suck compared to Android counterparts. As do things like lock screens.
From what they have told me, battery life is worse, and it is less stable. If I was forced to use an Apple product though, I would definitely jailbreak. Jailbreaking will of course void your warranty if Apple catches you.
Rooting on Android depends on the device. On many it is literally a click-and-forget process. On others it is very involved and risky. Motorola has used encrypted bootloaders on some of their devices in an attempt to stop rooting (it didnt work).
The main advantage of rooting is just to get superuser access to your phone, so you are not restricted in what you can change. And of course custom ROMs, which allow you to further customize your phone and even install newer versions of the OS that you might not otherwise be able to install (I am running Gingerbread on my Droid right now, and it is working great).
There is no real disadvantage to rooting alone. It does not affect battery life or create additional bugs. And it will not void your warranty (though installing a custom ROM will). Your vendor may still refuse to support a rooted device, but that is largely up to them. It is possible to unroot if it becomes a problem (or even re-install stock ROMs if you have gone to a custom ROM).
The demand is not the point. The point is that Apple should not be making those decisions for you.
Those decisions are made for us all the time. Most of the stores you frequent decide what type of service or content they feel is appropriate for them to sell to their customers. Every store does this. Its disingenuous to charge Apple with being draconian for doing what every other store does. In selecting what it feels it wants to represent towards its customers.
Quote:
Honestly, it seems really weird to me that Apple would not allow an app like Dropbox to actually save the data to the device. I mean, thats kinda the whole point of the app.
In the DropBox iPhone App features list it says "download files for offline viewing".
Quote:
Probably. I have never had to do it myself, since I can just copy my entire MP3 folder to my computer via drag and drop. There are apps and services that will allow syncing in a way similar to iTunes.
iTunes backs up everything from iOS. I mean absolutely everything. Every text, every note, every item in an apps history, every setting of everything. iTunes will fully restore an iOS device back to exactly the way it saved.
I haven't seen any software for Android that is capable to doing that.
Quote:
Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
This isn't true. There are few websites now that are so intricately tied to Flash. I have clicktoflash installed on my Mac. I go all over the web and find little to no problems with Flash blocked. Almost everyone is using H.264 for video and the only elements that are consistently blocked are ads.
Quote:
Do they have an app? Do they have an alternate HTML/Mobile version? They might. But as an end user, I would like the choice of not being forced to dig for those things. I'd like the choice to be able to just view the website as is, just like it would appear on my desktop.
You don't have to dig for the mobile or HTML version of a website. The website automatically detects the user agent, it knows you are using a phone browser and automatically directs you to the HTML version of the site.
Many websites also show a direct link to download the native app for that website.
The reason I asked for a specific example because it sounds like you are just inventing this problem. You are still using very broad terms and nothing specific.
Quote:
So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Because Apple has taken such a hard stance against Flash. Websites have been forced to offer HTML only versions. So for the most part no one has to deal with Flash at all.
Quote:
Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
You do have a choice. You can CHOOSE to use a platform that continues to support old dragging behemoth that is Flash.
Quote:
How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
No that's not a choice that I feel I need. I already know I'm never going to buy extra storage for my phone.
Quote:
Maybe 16 gigs is plenty and I will never have to upgrade. Maybe I will decide later that it isnt enough. If I do, I have the option of swapping out a 32 gig SD card. How is that a bad thing? Whats the downside?
Its not a bad thing if that is a choice that you want. I'd rather my phone have 32/64 GB built in than have juggle with keeping up with cards.
Quote:
Apparently not. "Think different" means "Think like Apple".
If that is the way you choose to look at it.
Quote:
Apple did not invent the GUI interface. Apple did not invent MP3 players. Apple did not invent touch-screen phones. Apple did not invent tablet PCs.
You are complete side stepping my point. It doesn't matter that Apple did not invent these things. What does matter is that Apple made them usable for the average consumer.
Quote:
Then Android has very little fragmentation. The vast majority of Android devices for sale right now are running Android 2.2.
Yeah but 2.2 is an older version of the OS. Google has released 2.3. And soon a version of 3.0 for tablets and phones.
How long will they continue to release phones running 2.2 and 2.3? How long will it take to adopt 3.0 across all of the phone capable of using it?
Not all of those phones are capable of running the newer OS. But of the phones that can run the newer OS. Which ones will receive the updated OS and when? Those are questions that no one can say for sure. That is what creates the fragmentation.
...which is an ideological choice. Most end users do not care about techie ideology. They just want to be able to view the site.
I agree with many of the Anti-flash arguments. But I dont think it should be up to Apple to push those decisions on me. I'd still like to choose for myself.
And if HTML5 is really better (and I agree that it is), then it is inevitable that it will supplant Flash anyway. Apple's pushy nanny mentality is unnecessary.
I don't know if you were paying any attention to the fight for HTML against Microsoft's Active X and its control over the internet. Apple and Mozilla fought to make the web more HTML standards compliant against Active X compliance. The only way to make this happen was to not support Active X.
So for awhile when most websites used Active X controls, certain things did not work or display correctly in Safari or in Firefox. Because they were attempting to wean the internet off of Active X. Eventually HTML won the fight and Firefox and Safari were considered the better browsers because they were geared more towards correctly displaying HTML and not Active X.
This is the same tactic with Flash. Apple wants to make the web more HTML compliant and not Flash compliant. The only way to accomplish that is by not supporting Flash.
Quote:
So I should not have access to iBoobies so that Grandma can rest easy? Why cant Apple just institute parental controls? Why is that alternative not acceptable?
Why is an iBoobies web app not acceptable? Most porn sites are horribly designed, goodness only knows what their native apps would look like.
Quote:
I dont know a single person who is not able manage their memory. Even non-geeks get it.
Who are these people you know who want to manage memory? I don't know of very many people who even know of the concept of managing memory much less capable of doing it.
Quote:
This is another argument that I hear from Apple people a lot: "Well Feature A is not something I personally want, therefore it is a good thing that Apple forbids me the option of using Feature A".
That really makes no sense to me at all. Fewer options is not good, even if you are able to tolerate fewer options.
Tech companies are always trying to sell based on a long swiss army knife list of features. That alone does not make for a great device or a great selling device. More features is not at all a good thing.
It is not about the OS, but the hardware. Some iOS products have really good 3D hardware (iPad2 for example) and some have really crappy 3D hardware (iPhone3). It would depend on what devices you are comparing.
If you own an apple product they are. On Android that is not true.
Quote:
Most of the stores you frequent decide what type of service or content they feel is appropriate for them to sell to their customers.
Give me an example of service or content that is forbidden by Google on Android devices.
Quote:
Its disingenuous to charge Apple with being draconian for doing what every other store does.
It would be if every other "store" did it. Android does not forbid iBoobie apps. Or an Apple Magazine app. It does not censor based on content.
Quote:
In the DropBox iPhone App features list it says "download files for offline viewing".
When I actually used the app that option was not available. Regardless of what the site is claiming.
Quote:
iTunes backs up everything from iOS.
...and you have to trust that iTunes is doing it correctly. And you have to install iTunes for it to do that.
I dont need to install anything on Android. I plug it in, and it works. I navigate it like a hard drive.
I transferred movies onto my Nephew's iTouches with iTunes and it was definitely a hassle. It isnt as intuitive as it could be IMO, especially considering Apple's reputation for stuff like that.
Quote:
I haven't seen any software for Android that is capable to doing that.
Mostly because it isnt needed, since you can just copy the entire directory.
Quote:
Me: Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
This isn't true.
Um...it is true. If you want to call me a liar, fine. But I am saying this has been my own actual experience. it is not conjecture.
Quote:
You don't have to dig for the mobile or HTML version of a website.
I dont if my mobile browser displays whatever my desktop can display anyway.
Quote:
The reason I asked for a specific example because it sounds like you are just inventing this problem.
Yeah, that must be it.
Quote:
Me: So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Because Apple has taken such a hard stance against Flash.
So the end-user is penalized because of an ideological stance by Apple. Got it.
Quote:
Me: Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
You do have a choice.
Not with Apple I dont. If I own an iOS device, Apple has made that decision for me.
Quote:
Me: How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
No that's not a choice that I feel I need.
"Choice is bad". Thats the message I get from Apple people.
Quote:
Its not a bad thing if that is a choice that you want. I'd rather my phone have 32/64 GB built in than have juggle with keeping up with cards.
Why would you not want both options? Why would you not want the option of expanding later if you wanted to?
You have told me that you dont care about the option. You have not told me why you think having the option is bad.
Quote:
Not all of those phones are capable of running the newer OS.
Most iOS products cannot run the newest Apple OS either. I have three friends who own iPhones. Two of them will not be able to upgrade. They are iOS users (they actually use the product) but they cannot upgrade to the latest OS. Sounds like fragmentation to me.
I don't know if you were paying any attention to the fight for HTML against Microsoft's Active X and its control over the internet. Apple and Mozilla fought to make the web more HTML standards compliant against Active X compliance.
Heaven forbid the end users should get a say eh?
You seems to be agreeing with me that Apple is playing nanny, but that you simply dont have a problem with them playing nanny.
Quote:
This is the same tactic with Flash. Apple wants to make the web more HTML compliant and not Flash compliant.
I disagree that this decision should be up to Apple. No one elected them boss of the internet.
Quote:
Why is an iBoobies web app not acceptable?
You will have to ask Apple. They are the ones forbidding it on their platform, not me.
Quote:
Who are these people you know who want to manage memory?
Everyone who likes having expandable hardware. Everyone who likes the idea of being able to upgrade without buying a whole new phone.
Quote:
I don't know of very many people who even know of the concept of managing memory much less capable of doing it.
How many non-Apple people do you know?
Quote:
Tech companies are always trying to sell based on a long swiss army knife list of features. That alone does not make for a great device or a great selling device.
That does not mean options are a bad thing.
Quote:
More features is not at all a good thing.
Then explain to me why Apple adds new features to its products at all. Is Apple wrong to do that?
Comments
Please share your experiences on how flash based websites that are designed for a desktop scale and work on a small screen touch based device.
The ones I have seen look exactly like the desktop version. Framerates are slower on some of them (flash video inside the browser is about half the normal frame rate IMO). Flash menus look exactly the same. Flash animations (like cartoons and stuff) look the same. Flash games will sometimes look the same, and other times suffer frame rate slowdown like the videos. It depends on the game. I am not a Flash programmer, so I dont know why specifically.
I use a Samsung Galaxy Android phone. I hate it, but need it for work. Battery life is laughable if I use it for data. Tried the same thing on an iPhone and it makes me jealous.
Kinda ironic that the Galaxy S phones are the ones I actually want the most right now. That super AMOLED screen is pretty sweet...you will not see blacks that deep on any other phone, including the iPhone.
Not that the iPhone4 doesnt have a sweet display...but if I had to choose, I would choose Super AMOLED. Movies just look amazing on that thing. And it is REALLY bright, even compared to LCD displays. I think it also has the best single core processor right now. It's 3D hardware is better than the iPhone's and every other single-core Android phone as well.
(And they are very very rootable, which is a big deal to me personally)
I totally understand about battery life. I guess I dont notice it much since I am so used to plugging my phone in constantly anyway (just a habit I had to form...all smartphones are battery hogs). If I was in a situation where I could not charge my phone for a long time I think I'd rather have a removable battery that I could swap out and take spares with me. The iPhone4 probably does have better battery life, but not on the order of 4 or 6 hours more.
The battery life and performance of the phone went up after I rooted it. Makes you wonder what the manufacturers and Google are upto.
My Droid stayed about the same, but I am also overclocking it to 1ghz...if I had left it at the stock clock speed I probably would have gotten better battery life too.
I dont know how rooting alone would change battery life. A custom ROM could change it by changing the way GPS works or messing with the voltage on the CPU or whatever.
I don't know if the iPhone processor is just much slower or what
I used to think it was, but it's not. The iPhone4's processor is actually a rebranded version of the one in the Galaxy S phones, and is pretty quick. It's 3D hardware isnt as good, but it is otherwise comparable to the 1ghz Android phones. There are several single core Android phones that are faster though. And of course all the dual core phones will be faster.
And yeah, the iPhone4 could handle Flash just fine. And Widgets. And Live Wallpaper. Steve Jobs doesnt like Flash because he considers it obsolete, and he thinks you should too, so no Flash on the iPhone. Widgets and Wallpapers were probably design decisions (he didnt think they would ensure an "Apple" experience or whatever). But Flash is PURELY an ideological one...he thinks HTML5 (an open standard) should be what everyone uses, not Flash (which is technically proprietary, even though it is also ubiquitous).
All Android phones can run both HTML5 and Flash (2.2 and higher).
The Droid 2 Global's CPU is only 1.2 ghz. So roughly comparable to iPhone 4.
No, it is faster. The OMAP processor has better 3D support too.
I did get the extended battery, though.
Yep...another advantage of having removable batteries...you can replace the stock one with a better after market one.
And I expect with 2.3 and Flash 10.2 it'll be even better.
I am running 2.3 now. I have not noticed an improvement in Flash performance. 2.3 Mostly has UI changes. Menus are a lot cleaner and faster and more polished. It does run a little better than 2.2 performance-wise. I get 24-bit color on my Droid 1's desktop now (which I love because I am a graphics nerd). And of course it has the blindtype keyboard, which is pretty sweet.
Google makes money off ads. Why would it keep their services and web apps off other platforms? I highly doubt it's their fault. I would image it's Apple and the other platforms that are blocking Google apps for some reason. (Why I can't imagine, though. Google Nav OWNS as you mentioned, it's killer for sure)
I think you misunderstood my point. Google Maps and several Google apps are available for other platforms, it's just that the navigation feature is missing. Moreover, as far as I know (which isn't necessarily saying much) the navigation has nothing to do with ads or ad revenue.
I think you misunderstood my point. Google Maps and several Google apps are available for other platforms, it's just that the navigation feature is missing. Moreover, as far as I know (which isn't necessarily saying much) the navigation has nothing to do with ads or ad revenue.
Navigation is Maps on steroids. I can hold Home and say "Where is the nearest [insert nearly anything] and get turn-by-turn to it. Like all Google services, it's a gateway to ads. It's a service, but also laden with ads. Which I don't mind. Because when I want gas or food or whatever, who's going to have better info than Google. Google isn't making money off Android OS they are making money on ads (which would be in Navigation on iPhone if Steve would allow it.)
but never did my choice of android ever make me feel inadequate enough to post about it on any Apple oriented forums. i keep my Android based posts to XDA-Devs.
but hey... if the platform's recent achievement of outselling RIM in the past quarter makes you feel better for some reason, more power to you.
i currently have a HTC Desire Z/G2 flashed with CM7rc1. ive been using/developing android since i received a Devphone1 G1 a few years ago when Android first hit the market.
but never did my choice of android ever make me feel inadequate enough to post about it on any Apple oriented forums. i keep my Android based posts to XDA-Devs.
but hey... if the platform's recent achievement of outselling RIM in the past quarter makes you feel better for some reason, more power to you.
Last week I was interested in people's thoughts here on iPhone 4 vs. Android (and root vs jailbreak) because I wasn't sure if I would keep it. I'm going to keep it now. Now I'm interested in how other Android and Mac users are syncing the two platforms. I am thinking now either Missing Sync or Doubletwist look the best but I wish there was a free way to get it done. I mean contacts, email, media, the whole nine yards. So far, email is working fine on it. I haven't tried mucking with calendar->iCal etc. but from what i've read you can sync iCal to Google cal. Also you can drag media onto Droids as a mounted drive. Basically I wouldn't have a problem if stupid Motorola MediaLink would work. In fact I think I'm going to contact their support or check their forums out now..
The psychological prob with users of a brand is that they find it almost impossible to admit their brand's downsides. Which is why rarely anybody here 'confesses' to using or liking another brand.
The App Store is Apple's latest 'development' that makes me definitely not rule out Linux for a next machine: the App Store requires you to register your credit card details to even download FREE applications! That's absurd! Even if I've used, and enjoyed, dozens of Macs over the past 25 years!
Let's face it: when the fun is over, it is over!
I divorced my wife when the fun was over, so I'm not afraid to also divorce my computer or OS brand, if necessary!
Apple requires a credit card on account to verify your locale. This is to cover them for copyright and licensing across different world markets. It is to appease the publishers.
Its all about compromise, with Apple you have the locked down eco-system with the security that brings. With Google you have the 'open' eco-system and the risks that brings. Both have their benefits and drawbacks, neither is perfect.
Its quite funny how, when comparing sales figures, they compare platforms. The general public don't buy a 'platform' they buy a Samsung, because they want samsung, they buy LG, because they want LG they buy Blackberry because they want blackberry etc. They don't go out looking to buy an android phone.
Just spend a day in a mobile retail store and see exactly joe public is shopping for. As a platform android does well, why? because of the multitude of manufacturers and models of handset available. Compare a single manufacturer to Apple or RIM and they are nowhere in the smartphone market.
Ok, here's my opinion. Disclaimer: While I like Android more, I dont hate Apple. If I didnt own a Droid, I would own an iPhone. I think iPhones are awesome, I just think Android is even more awesomer. Here's why:
1 - Widgets. Yeah, I know you can get them on iOS via jailbreaking, but frankly, all the ones on iOS suck. My nephews have iTouches and Jailbroke them...the widgets they were able to get were a pale shadow of Android widgets, both in quality and quantity. Widgets are definitely something I would miss if I went to an iPhone. Another thing that is not exactly a widget but similar, is Launchers. These change the look and feel of the device. They control how your "desktop" looks and behaves. Right now I am using one called LaucherPro, which is far superior to the stock launcher. Its animation is as good as anything I have seen on an iPhone, and it contains many options the stock launcher lacks. Like widgets, these do not require rooting.
I've owned an android phone or two that I bought just to hack around and make sure I wasn't missing out on anything. I've own a G1, MyTouch, and Mytouch 3G slide.
I've never gotten the fascination with widgets. I suppose they are nice shortcuts to some rapidly used features and they show some minimal information to help get there, but if you didn't have to go into the app drawer to get anything, it probably wouldn't feel so awesome to have it on one of several home screens accessible. If there's a link to a video or something that shows something amazing, about this, I'll be happy to change my mind, but for now it just seems sort of wasteful and pointless.
2 - Flash. Yeah, I know the story "OMG you dont need Flash anyway"...thats true. I hardly ever use it. But if I go to a website where I need it, I suddenly need it BAD. This has already happened to me in the days before I upgraded to Android 2.2 on my Droid 1...I went to a site with Flash menus or other flash content and could not see anything. I could use Skyfire to access videos, but that was it. It is something I did miss. It is not something I use all the time, but its something that I know I would miss the first time I did need it. Also the "OMG flash is sloooow anyway!" argument is stupid...on my Droid 1 it works fine for menus or videos or other content. It isnt great for games, but many Flash games do work even on my now-obsolete Droid 1.
Flash should be obsolete. Jobs is right to hold the line here. Of course the performance will eventually make the point moot, but that doesn't mean that flash is a good decision in the first place. It is an uncontrollable third party extension that can greatly impact performance. I'd rather Apple help everyone get it right than put up with a permanent kludge for convenience.
3 - Censorship. This really bugs me about Apple...I dont like the idea of Apple censoring content I have access to just because it doesnt like the content. I feel that as an adult, if I want to download the "iBoobies" app (or whatever) I should be allowed to do so. Disallowing apps for competing products (say, Android magazines) really bothers me too.
Apple allows apps and HTML5. You can get whatever you want through the latter. Grandma's buying their grandkids iTune gift cards at Target are probably thrilled to know it won't be used to buy porn.
4 - No drag and drop media. This would be another deal breaker for me. I am really used to just plugging my Droid into my computer via USB and using like a hard drive. The idea of having to "sync" every single file seems really annoying to me. I installed Dropbox on my nephew's iTouch a few weeks ago...I could not get it to actually download anything to the device. It would stream, but not download files. When I asked him what was wrong, he said "nothing". A few seconds later he asked me with a shocked look "You mean Android lets you actually DOWNLOAD stuff with that??". It was pretty funny. He actually thought that streaming instead of downloading was normal.
Dropbox says on their site it will download to iPhone. I know I have several apps that download or store information on the iPhone including Kindle and Audible. Better still iTunes backs up all the information from all these apps as well.
5 - No expandability/removability. That was a huge plus for me in choosing Android. I have been using 16 gigs for the past year, but if I wanted to I could go to the store right now and double my memory. And I could do it all on my own...which is the other point. I dont need Apple to replace or upgrade my phone for me. No charge, no wait. I can buy after market batteries that are better than stock, or I can use more than one battery for long trips.
This is nice, but the unified treatment of phone memory and storage is a decent trade off as well. Most non-geeks don't want to try to remember how much storage their phone and card respectively have each and what is stored where and how.
6 - Customization. I always thought it was ironic that Apple's commercials said "think different' yet they all looked the same. This is something that I admit is entirely subjective and not a functionality issue, but I like customizing my phone. Things like Live Wallpaper are just really neat (and like widgets, dont require rooting). I like customizing all the sounds and alerts as well.
Customization is nice but not quite the same on an object like the iPhone compared to a large desktop computer or laptop. Apple is beginning to listen in the areas of SMS tones, ringtones and ability to set how they work. Live wallpaper just seems ridiculous unless the screen is blank. I'm not a fan. Having used a Nokia and a Blackberry, sound profiles can rock, and I think Apple is doing some work here along with an improved notification system soon. There are minor quibbles compared to Android though where the largest app downloads are desktop replacements and desperate attempts to find a decently working keyboard. Sometimes customization is just finding a dozen additional things that don't work any better than a crappy native aspect of the system software.
7 - Notification Bar. This is something I use constantly and would miss a lot. I can get to push content fast and easy and it is very intuitive to use.
I'd bet Apple hits this with the coming iOS5, but for now you are right they lag.
8 - Android software. Various things like turn by turn directions, voice command support, ect. Google maps is well integrated and I use it all the time.
I believe Apple bought a mapping competitor. People are placing good bets on improvements in these areas as well. For now I use Dragon dicatation and MapQuest for Mobile which provides free turn by turn directions, lets you add additional points and does a great job for free.
Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
No it isn't fragmentation because all things eventually wear out. Also I think you must mean second generation because a 3GS class iPod Touch is not at all slow. Since there are really no iPod class Android devices of that timeframe though, your point is pretty much moot. The Samsung Galaxy Player is the only one that exists for now and it's price isn't competitive with the iPod Touch. If you want to pay more to do less, that is your choice.
Well, there are more, but those are the major things.
Like I said I do not hate Apple products. Apple beats the crap out of Blackberry, WebOS, Symbian and everything else. I dont want Apple to die (though I dont want them to be an industry standard either).
None of those are major things though. They amount to quibbles.
Navigation is Maps on steroids. I can hold Home and say "Where is the nearest [insert nearly anything] and get turn-by-turn to it. Like all Google services, it's a gateway to ads. It's a service, but also laden with ads. Which I don't mind. Because when I want gas or food or whatever, who's going to have better info than Google. Google isn't making money off Android OS they are making money on ads (which would be in Navigation on iPhone if Steve would allow it.)
I'll take Mapquest for Mobile and have 95% of what you state right there while keeping uniformity and having a much better overall value and experience.
3 - Censorship. This really bugs me about Apple...I dont like the idea of Apple censoring content I have access to just because it doesnt like the content. I feel that as an adult, if I want to download the "iBoobies" app (or whatever) I should be allowed to do so. Disallowing apps for competing products (say, Android magazines) really bothers me too.
I haven't heard of any growing popularity with "iBoobie" apps on Android either. It makes me wonder what really is the demand for such things.
No drag and drop media.[/B]I could not get it to actually download anything to the device. It would stream, but not download files. When I asked him what was wrong, he said "nothing". A few seconds later he asked me with a shocked look "You mean Android lets you actually DOWNLOAD stuff with that??". It was pretty funny. He actually thought that streaming instead of downloading was normal.
I don't use drop box. But of course their are apps that will download and store files on the iOS.
Is there a way to back up and completely restore everything for Android the way you can through iTunes?
Flash. Yeah, I know the story "OMG you dont need Flash anyway"...thats true. I hardly ever use it. But if I go to a website where I need it, I suddenly need it BAD. This has already happened to me in the days before I upgraded to Android 2.2 on my Droid 1...I went to a site with Flash menus or other flash content and could not see anything.
Exactly what website is this? What website remains completely Flash only with no native app, no mobile version, and no HTML version?
Also the "OMG flash is sloooow anyway!" argument is stupid...on my Droid 1 it works fine for menus or videos or other content. It isnt great for games, but many Flash games do work even on my now-obsolete Droid 1.
Not according to tech sites that have reviewed Flash on Android phones. They all generally say Flash uses a lot of the phones resources and sucks up battery life.
No expandability/removability. That was a huge plus for me in choosing Android. I have been using 16 gigs for the past year, but if I wanted to I could go to the store right now and double my memory.
I honestly don't see the draw in dealing with memory cards. Its just more stuff to deal with. I really don't see you finding very many people who would agree with you on this one.
Customization.[/B] I always thought it was ironic that Apple's commercials said "think different' yet they all looked the same. This is something that I admit is entirely subjective and not a functionality issue, but I like customizing my phone. Things like Live Wallpaper are just really neat (and like widgets, dont require rooting). I like customizing all the sounds and alerts as well.
You don't understand the context of what they mean by "think different". They aren't talking about customization.
What existed before Mac OS? What existed before the iPod? What existed before the iPhone? What existed before the iPad?
The answer to those questions is where you will find "think different".
Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
That's not fragmentation. That's simply outdated hardware.
Fragmentation is when brand new phones are sold with three different versions of the same operating system at the same time.
It's 3D hardware is better than the iPhone's and every other single-core Android phone as well.
Just have a friend buy you a $10 iTunes Gift Certificate or buy yourself a $15 iTunes Gift Card, and you can register for iTunes without a credit card download free apps to your heart's content, and use the $10 or $15 for music or movies or paid apps.
I haven't heard of any growing popularity with "iBoobie" apps on Android either. It makes me wonder what really is the demand for such things.
The demand is not the point. The point is that Apple should not be making those decisions for you.
And really, that is what keeps me away from Apple more than anything else. Its not their hardware (which is often top notch) or even their software, despite the limitations I've listed. Its this nanny mentality that they know what is best for you. I dont want Apple thinking for me. I want to think different.
I don't use drop box. But of course their are apps that will download and store files on the iOS.
And you have to jump through hoops to use them. IMO, this is something the OS itself should support. I should not have to jailbreak and install various workarounds just to get media onto my device.
Honestly, it seems really weird to me that Apple would not allow an app like Dropbox to actually save the data to the device. I mean, thats kinda the whole point of the app.
Is there a way to back up and completely restore everything for Android the way you can through iTunes?
Probably. I have never had to do it myself, since I can just copy my entire MP3 folder to my computer via drag and drop. There are apps and services that will allow syncing in a way similar to iTunes.
I am a heavy user of iTunes actually. It has a vast selection that is better than any of it's competitors. I just dont want the app to control my library. So the first thing I do whenever I buy a song off of iTunes is convert it to MP3 and stick it in my private library.
Exactly what website is this?
Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
Do they have an app? Do they have an alternate HTML/Mobile version? They might. But as an end user, I would like the choice of not being forced to dig for those things. I'd like the choice to be able to just view the website as is, just like it would appear on my desktop.
Not according to tech sites that have reviewed Flash on Android phones.
I will take my own personal experience over review sites any day. I've seen it with my own eyes.
They all generally say Flash uses a lot of the phones resources and sucks up battery life.
So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
I honestly don't see the draw in dealing with memory cards. Its just more stuff to deal with.
How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
Maybe 16 gigs is plenty and I will never have to upgrade. Maybe I will decide later that it isnt enough. If I do, I have the option of swapping out a 32 gig SD card. How is that a bad thing? Whats the downside?
You don't understand the context of what they mean by "think different". They aren't talking about customization.
Apparently not. "Think different" means "Think like Apple".
What existed before Mac OS? What existed before the iPod? What existed before the iPhone? What existed before the iPad? The answer to those questions is where you will find "think different".
Apple did not invent the GUI interface. Apple did not invent MP3 players. Apple did not invent touch-screen phones. Apple did not invent tablet PCs.
Me: Also...someone brought up fragmentation earlier. iOS also has fragmentation. My nephews have 3rd generation iTouches, but say they will not upgrade to the latest OS because it slows down their devices significantly. Other iOS devices are "retired" and cannot use the latest OS at all. Is that not also fragmentation?
That's not fragmentation. That's simply outdated hardware.
How come that same argument does not apply to Android? All those charts showing the "fragmentation" of the platform are not showing just current devices. They are showing ALL Android devices in use, even hardware that has not been in production for a very long time.
So by your own definition, the Android market is not fragmented either.
Fragmentation is when brand new phones are sold with three different versions of the same operating system at the same time.
Then Android has very little fragmentation. The vast majority of Android devices for sale right now are running Android 2.2.
What 3D hardware are you talking about and how exactly is that quantified in real world usage?
I am talking about hardware acceleration for 3D graphics. And it's real world usage is mostly just for games.
I've never gotten the fascination with widgets.
Everyone I have shown them to is fascinated by them, because they are kinda neat. But I do use mine daily. Being able to get access to content at a glance without having to open an app for it is a definite luxury.
Flash should be obsolete.
People (especially Apple people) keep making this argument as if it is relevant.
Yes, I agree it SHOULD be obsolete. But the reality is that it is not. Lots of websites still use it, and developers (for whatever reason) still want to use it. So I, as an end user, would like the option of being able to view those sites in the meantime.
Since my Droid supports HTML5 as well, I can view the new HTML5 sites as well. To me, that is the best solution because it is the solution that inconveniences me (the end user) the least.
I'd rather Apple help everyone get it right than put up with a permanent kludge for convenience.
...which is an ideological choice. Most end users do not care about techie ideology. They just want to be able to view the site.
I agree with many of the Anti-flash arguments. But I dont think it should be up to Apple to push those decisions on me. I'd still like to choose for myself.
And if HTML5 is really better (and I agree that it is), then it is inevitable that it will supplant Flash anyway. Apple's pushy nanny mentality is unnecessary.
Apple allows apps and HTML5. You can get whatever you want through the latter. Grandma's buying their grandkids iTune gift cards at Target are probably thrilled to know it won't be used to buy porn.
So I should not have access to iBoobies so that Grandma can rest easy? Why cant Apple just institute parental controls? Why is that alternative not acceptable?
Dropbox says on their site it will download to iPhone.
I tried it about 3 weeks ago. When I did it on my nephew's iPod touch (3rd Gen), it would only stream. There were no controls that allowed it to download.
When I asked my nephews about it, they were shocked that Android allowed you to actually download stuff to the device like that. They said it was normal for iOS to disallow downloading for all Apps in general.
This is nice, but the unified treatment of phone memory and storage is a decent trade off as well. Most non-geeks don't want to try to remember how much storage their phone and card respectively have each and what is stored where and how.
I dont know a single person who is not able manage their memory. Even non-geeks get it.
Customization is nice but not quite the same on an object like the iPhone compared to a large desktop computer or laptop. Apple is beginning to listen in the areas of SMS tones, ringtones and ability to set how they work. Live wallpaper just seems ridiculous unless the screen is blank. I'm not a fan.
This is another argument that I hear from Apple people a lot: "Well Feature A is not something I personally want, therefore it is a good thing that Apple forbids me the option of using Feature A".
That really makes no sense to me at all. Fewer options is not good, even if you are able to tolerate fewer options.
If you want to pay more to do less, that is your choice.
Oh the irony, heh heh
I'd bet Apple hits this with the coming iOS5, but for now you are right they lag.
Apple implementing gestures for multitasking is a step in the right direction. But the Android notification bar is something I use constantly
No it isn't fragmentation because all things eventually wear out.
Then I think it is disingenuous for people to count "all" Android devices in these fragmentation figures, when most of the ones using an older OS are not in production.
If you go to any verizon store, or T-Mobile store or whatever...the Android phones they have for sale are likely either running 2.2 or are upgradable to 2.2.
Last week I was interested in people's thoughts here on iPhone 4 vs. Android (and root vs jailbreak)
I have done both. My nephew's iPod's are both jailbroken.
First of all, I was frankly surprised at how easy it is to jailbreak. It was not as big a deal as I thought it would be. How very uncharacteristic of Apple!
However the benefits were also a lot less of a big deal than I expected. The stuff you can do with a Jailbreak is not that great IMO. You can approximate an Android experience, but its not even remotely the same. Widgets and live wallpapers suck compared to Android counterparts. As do things like lock screens.
From what they have told me, battery life is worse, and it is less stable. If I was forced to use an Apple product though, I would definitely jailbreak. Jailbreaking will of course void your warranty if Apple catches you.
Rooting on Android depends on the device. On many it is literally a click-and-forget process. On others it is very involved and risky. Motorola has used encrypted bootloaders on some of their devices in an attempt to stop rooting (it didnt work).
The main advantage of rooting is just to get superuser access to your phone, so you are not restricted in what you can change. And of course custom ROMs, which allow you to further customize your phone and even install newer versions of the OS that you might not otherwise be able to install (I am running Gingerbread on my Droid right now, and it is working great).
There is no real disadvantage to rooting alone. It does not affect battery life or create additional bugs. And it will not void your warranty (though installing a custom ROM will). Your vendor may still refuse to support a rooted device, but that is largely up to them. It is possible to unroot if it becomes a problem (or even re-install stock ROMs if you have gone to a custom ROM).
The demand is not the point. The point is that Apple should not be making those decisions for you.
Those decisions are made for us all the time. Most of the stores you frequent decide what type of service or content they feel is appropriate for them to sell to their customers. Every store does this. Its disingenuous to charge Apple with being draconian for doing what every other store does. In selecting what it feels it wants to represent towards its customers.
Honestly, it seems really weird to me that Apple would not allow an app like Dropbox to actually save the data to the device. I mean, thats kinda the whole point of the app.
In the DropBox iPhone App features list it says "download files for offline viewing".
Probably. I have never had to do it myself, since I can just copy my entire MP3 folder to my computer via drag and drop. There are apps and services that will allow syncing in a way similar to iTunes.
iTunes backs up everything from iOS. I mean absolutely everything. Every text, every note, every item in an apps history, every setting of everything. iTunes will fully restore an iOS device back to exactly the way it saved.
I haven't seen any software for Android that is capable to doing that.
Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
This isn't true. There are few websites now that are so intricately tied to Flash. I have clicktoflash installed on my Mac. I go all over the web and find little to no problems with Flash blocked. Almost everyone is using H.264 for video and the only elements that are consistently blocked are ads.
Do they have an app? Do they have an alternate HTML/Mobile version? They might. But as an end user, I would like the choice of not being forced to dig for those things. I'd like the choice to be able to just view the website as is, just like it would appear on my desktop.
You don't have to dig for the mobile or HTML version of a website. The website automatically detects the user agent, it knows you are using a phone browser and automatically directs you to the HTML version of the site.
Many websites also show a direct link to download the native app for that website.
The reason I asked for a specific example because it sounds like you are just inventing this problem. You are still using very broad terms and nothing specific.
So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Because Apple has taken such a hard stance against Flash. Websites have been forced to offer HTML only versions. So for the most part no one has to deal with Flash at all.
Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
You do have a choice. You can CHOOSE to use a platform that continues to support old dragging behemoth that is Flash.
How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
No that's not a choice that I feel I need. I already know I'm never going to buy extra storage for my phone.
Maybe 16 gigs is plenty and I will never have to upgrade. Maybe I will decide later that it isnt enough. If I do, I have the option of swapping out a 32 gig SD card. How is that a bad thing? Whats the downside?
Its not a bad thing if that is a choice that you want. I'd rather my phone have 32/64 GB built in than have juggle with keeping up with cards.
Apparently not. "Think different" means "Think like Apple".
If that is the way you choose to look at it.
Apple did not invent the GUI interface. Apple did not invent MP3 players. Apple did not invent touch-screen phones. Apple did not invent tablet PCs.
You are complete side stepping my point. It doesn't matter that Apple did not invent these things. What does matter is that Apple made them usable for the average consumer.
Then Android has very little fragmentation. The vast majority of Android devices for sale right now are running Android 2.2.
Yeah but 2.2 is an older version of the OS. Google has released 2.3. And soon a version of 3.0 for tablets and phones.
How long will they continue to release phones running 2.2 and 2.3? How long will it take to adopt 3.0 across all of the phone capable of using it?
Not all of those phones are capable of running the newer OS. But of the phones that can run the newer OS. Which ones will receive the updated OS and when? Those are questions that no one can say for sure. That is what creates the fragmentation.
I am talking about hardware acceleration for 3D graphics. And it's real world usage is mostly just for games.
...which is an ideological choice. Most end users do not care about techie ideology. They just want to be able to view the site.
I agree with many of the Anti-flash arguments. But I dont think it should be up to Apple to push those decisions on me. I'd still like to choose for myself.
And if HTML5 is really better (and I agree that it is), then it is inevitable that it will supplant Flash anyway. Apple's pushy nanny mentality is unnecessary.
I don't know if you were paying any attention to the fight for HTML against Microsoft's Active X and its control over the internet. Apple and Mozilla fought to make the web more HTML standards compliant against Active X compliance. The only way to make this happen was to not support Active X.
So for awhile when most websites used Active X controls, certain things did not work or display correctly in Safari or in Firefox. Because they were attempting to wean the internet off of Active X. Eventually HTML won the fight and Firefox and Safari were considered the better browsers because they were geared more towards correctly displaying HTML and not Active X.
This is the same tactic with Flash. Apple wants to make the web more HTML compliant and not Flash compliant. The only way to accomplish that is by not supporting Flash.
So I should not have access to iBoobies so that Grandma can rest easy? Why cant Apple just institute parental controls? Why is that alternative not acceptable?
Why is an iBoobies web app not acceptable? Most porn sites are horribly designed, goodness only knows what their native apps would look like.
I dont know a single person who is not able manage their memory. Even non-geeks get it.
Who are these people you know who want to manage memory? I don't know of very many people who even know of the concept of managing memory much less capable of doing it.
This is another argument that I hear from Apple people a lot: "Well Feature A is not something I personally want, therefore it is a good thing that Apple forbids me the option of using Feature A".
That really makes no sense to me at all. Fewer options is not good, even if you are able to tolerate fewer options.
Tech companies are always trying to sell based on a long swiss army knife list of features. That alone does not make for a great device or a great selling device. More features is not at all a good thing.
What 3D games work better on Android than on iOS?
It is not about the OS, but the hardware. Some iOS products have really good 3D hardware (iPad2 for example) and some have really crappy 3D hardware (iPhone3). It would depend on what devices you are comparing.
Those decisions are made for us all the time.
If you own an apple product they are. On Android that is not true.
Most of the stores you frequent decide what type of service or content they feel is appropriate for them to sell to their customers.
Give me an example of service or content that is forbidden by Google on Android devices.
Its disingenuous to charge Apple with being draconian for doing what every other store does.
It would be if every other "store" did it. Android does not forbid iBoobie apps. Or an Apple Magazine app. It does not censor based on content.
In the DropBox iPhone App features list it says "download files for offline viewing".
When I actually used the app that option was not available. Regardless of what the site is claiming.
iTunes backs up everything from iOS.
...and you have to trust that iTunes is doing it correctly. And you have to install iTunes for it to do that.
I dont need to install anything on Android. I plug it in, and it works. I navigate it like a hard drive.
I transferred movies onto my Nephew's iTouches with iTunes and it was definitely a hassle. It isnt as intuitive as it could be IMO, especially considering Apple's reputation for stuff like that.
I haven't seen any software for Android that is capable to doing that.
Mostly because it isnt needed, since you can just copy the entire directory.
Me: Any website. I've gone to links and had the links not display because the site uses flash content I cant see. Since I installed Android 2.2 I dont have those problems anymore. Every site I go to loads normally now.
This isn't true.
Um...it is true. If you want to call me a liar, fine. But I am saying this has been my own actual experience. it is not conjecture.
You don't have to dig for the mobile or HTML version of a website.
I dont if my mobile browser displays whatever my desktop can display anyway.
The reason I asked for a specific example because it sounds like you are just inventing this problem.
Yeah, that must be it.
Me: So what? How many people use flash site constantly? I dont know anyone that uses a flash site for 6 hours straight. Like I said before, I rarely need it, but the times that I did need it, it was sorely missed. I have had it both ways, and I definitely prefer having the choice.
Because Apple has taken such a hard stance against Flash.
So the end-user is penalized because of an ideological stance by Apple. Got it.
Me: Why should I, as the end user, not be allowed to CHOOSE if I want to make that trade off?
You do have a choice.
Not with Apple I dont. If I own an iOS device, Apple has made that decision for me.
Me: How is it more to deal with? No one is forcing me to upgrade...it is just a choice. Why would you prefer not having a choice?
No that's not a choice that I feel I need.
"Choice is bad". Thats the message I get from Apple people.
Its not a bad thing if that is a choice that you want. I'd rather my phone have 32/64 GB built in than have juggle with keeping up with cards.
Why would you not want both options? Why would you not want the option of expanding later if you wanted to?
You have told me that you dont care about the option. You have not told me why you think having the option is bad.
Not all of those phones are capable of running the newer OS.
Most iOS products cannot run the newest Apple OS either. I have three friends who own iPhones. Two of them will not be able to upgrade. They are iOS users (they actually use the product) but they cannot upgrade to the latest OS. Sounds like fragmentation to me.
I don't know if you were paying any attention to the fight for HTML against Microsoft's Active X and its control over the internet. Apple and Mozilla fought to make the web more HTML standards compliant against Active X compliance.
Heaven forbid the end users should get a say eh?
You seems to be agreeing with me that Apple is playing nanny, but that you simply dont have a problem with them playing nanny.
This is the same tactic with Flash. Apple wants to make the web more HTML compliant and not Flash compliant.
I disagree that this decision should be up to Apple. No one elected them boss of the internet.
Why is an iBoobies web app not acceptable?
You will have to ask Apple. They are the ones forbidding it on their platform, not me.
Who are these people you know who want to manage memory?
Everyone who likes having expandable hardware. Everyone who likes the idea of being able to upgrade without buying a whole new phone.
I don't know of very many people who even know of the concept of managing memory much less capable of doing it.
How many non-Apple people do you know?
Tech companies are always trying to sell based on a long swiss army knife list of features. That alone does not make for a great device or a great selling device.
That does not mean options are a bad thing.
More features is not at all a good thing.
Then explain to me why Apple adds new features to its products at all. Is Apple wrong to do that?