Sometimes we need protection from these improvements meant to help us. Just one example, with "versions".
As I understand it, if i have a document three years old, and have edited it on a number of occasions, it's gonna exist in its original form plus all the overtly-saved "versions" AND all the auto-saves (default: once per hour). From the illustration, those versions are distinguished by date and time, but not renamed--as can be done using the save-as function. To find a desired "spot" in that continuum I have to search them all, instead of having useful, identifying filenames.
Say what?
Over the past two days, after a meeting with my attorney, I've revised my 2008 "Separate Writing" document that is a part of my will. When i initiated these recent edits, I opened the 2008 file and saved it as "Separate Writing v 2011". Pretty simple, right? I now have two "versions" of that separate writing--one with the suffix v 2008, and one with the suffix v 2011.
Which better serves my purposes? Clearly, the latter. From the illustration in this article, there's no option to "save as" and rename a file. So instead of two clearly identified (by filename) documents, I'd have perhaps 20 or more--all with the same filename, distinguished only by date and time that provide no insight into content, or intent.
So to me, this would be a step backwards. (Give me the ability to "save as version" AND rename that version, and i'm on board).
First of all "Duplicate" is the new "Save As...". It creates a duplicate of the most recent version of the file and allows you to save it under a different name and format.
When you're absolutely done with a document, you can lock it. Later when you want to make changes to it, you'll be reminded that it is locked. At that point you can either unlock it and modify the original, or by default, create a "duplicate".
There's nothing in this new feature that prevents you from working with documents as you normally do.
However, I do agree it would be a nice feature to be able to "bookmark" certain versions, and I'm sure if enough people send in a request for it, Apple may add it. This is a pre-beta release, so there is plenty of time for Apple to make changes where needed or desired.
I missed something: if you full-screen a window with a control in the drag region, how to you un-full-screen it?
When a window goes full screen the menubar disappears. However, if you move the mouse to the top of the display, the menubar slides down, and sitting on the right side of the menubar is a new control that allows you to leave full-screen mode.
I assume the controls and implementation to all of this is going through a research phase right now. When Lion was first demoed, you clicked the green button to go full-screen, in the current version, there's a separate control on the right side of the window title bar.
So where is the version info kept? If I send the file to someone, do they get the 'latest' file or the original with a million differences they have to process...
I've tried several ways to send a versioned file, they all come out flattened. No previous versions were sent with them.
I logged into MobileMe through Safari, sent a normal TextEdit file and sent an archived/zipped version of the same file.
In both Lion and Snow Leopard, both files only contained the most recent version.
So I'm guessing the OS is only giving you direct access to the most recent version while saving the "versioned" data somewhere else. So when you're working with the file in the Finder, you're always only dealing with the latest version.
Even if you copy the file in the Finder, you only end up with the current version of the file, it does not copy previous versions with it.
Mac OS X 10.7 Lion makes a conceptual leap away from the Mac's original focus on opening apps to create files
This is slightly off-topic, but the first sentence reminded me of the OpenDoc initiative from back in the day. Anyone else remember that?
The idea was to move the Mac OS to a document-centric paradigm, away from the app/program-centric one it was using, and continues to use today. Under OpenDoc, you would start a document by entering text with a word processing utility, then add a photo, crop, and stylize it with an image utility, and finally throw in a spreadsheet and graph with a spreadsheet utility (all done within the document, and without having to open three different apps).
One of the reasons that this document-centric approach failed was a lack of many small utilities that did one thing, and did it very well. It seems to me that this condition is now met, with the popularity of iPhone apps, and those beginning to cross over into the Mac App Store.
I wonder if Apple will attempt this paradigm shift again. If not in Mac OS X, then at least this strategy seems like a good idea for the iPad.
The most common reason for data loss is that the user haven't saved the file or it has been saved over an existing file by mistake.
You can already close open application with Command + Tab + Q. Much faster than using a mouse. And we probably going to have some new ways to manage open applications with Mission Control, who knows?
Instead of going through the Save As - Locate the file - Do something with it -approach, there's going to be some Share/Export options that lets you easily send the file as a PDF for example. This is a huge step forward! Most of the time you don't need to share the original production file and if you do, then you just make a duplicate, easy as that!
It's sad to read all these negative comments when somebody (Apple) is finally trying to break free from these old and complete unnecessary steps we take every day to do things that even most basic computers should be able to handle for us ? I mean, that's why I bought a Mac in the first place! I got tired of tweaking and fixing my computer all the time, I wanted it just to work. The same logic applies to operating system and applications - I want to focus on the task at hand and not on maintaining backups.
So this new auto save feature, all it does is auto save files for you, and save and backups previous entries you had in the document. When you are done editing the document, you save as duplicate to save one version that doesn't have the previous entries history saved in it as if it was a clean, final copy.
So, if that's what it is, I really don't see the fuss about it. Though they should rename duplicate to final copy or something.
I don't like the resume thing that much. When I close an app, I want it closed, turned off, not on anymore. Most likely I don't want it to save its "session." I like the idea of them making the red button always turn off the app, but I hope they don't make it by default that you just close the window, but the app is always on running in the background. I know its kinda like that way now, and for some stuff, like iTunes, its useful, its just I want to make sure, when I do want the app completely turned off, its off. I don't care if its using 95% less resources, I just want it off. I hope they don't take out Application Name - Quite application / Command + Q.
Full screen idea is kinda cool, but I have a 27 inch iMac because I want to be able to have a lot of apps open, at once, and see them them all. Not one giant app taking up the whole screen. I own a computer, not a portable device with a small screen. This means now if I want to change window size I will always have to use resize and drag my window to be bigger or smaller. Be nice if they just made a new function key that forces the app to full screen, or at least allow us to decided what we want the green button to do.
At the end of the day, I hope they keep OS X a computer OS.
...When you are done editing the document, you save as duplicate to save one version that doesn't have the previous entries history saved in it as if it was a clean, final copy.
So, if that's what it is, I really don't see the fuss about it. Though they should rename duplicate to final copy or something.
I don't like the resume thing that much. When I close an app, I want it closed, turned off, not on anymore. Most likely I don't want it to save its "session." I like the idea of them making the red button always turn off the app, but I hope they don't make it by default that you just close the window, but the app is always on running in the background. I know its kinda like that way now, and for some stuff, like iTunes, its useful, its just I want to make sure, when I do want the app completely turned off, its off. I don't care if its using 95% less resources, I just want it off. I hope they don't take out Application Name - Quite application / Command + Q.
Full screen idea is kinda cool, but I have a 27 inch iMac because I want to be able to have a lot of apps open, at once, and see them them all. Not one giant app taking up the whole screen. I own a computer, not a portable device with a small screen. This means now if I want to change window size I will always have to use resize and drag my window to be bigger or smaller. Be nice if they just made a new function key that forces the app to full screen, or at least allow us to decided what we want the green button to do.
At the end of the day, I hope they keep OS X a computer OS.
[I just found this thread, thus my 'late' post here]
I agree with these sentiments.
While there are certainly some apps that I do want running much of the time --iCal, Preview, Text / Note / Journaling apps, that sort of thing-- there are certainly other apps that I want to be closed when I am done using it.
There is no reason for an app that I run one time a day or once a week, to be running in the background 24/7.
And yes, I would like a Final and Clean copy of a document, so that when I send it off to others as a final document, it is lean and trim and does not contain all my prior deletions. Shades of Microsoft Word "Fast Save" feature from years back. YIKES and YUCK!
And finally, I am also dismayed by what seems to be a trend towards making my Mac OS to be just a big iOS device.
Do you think that the Lion OS developers are writing code just on their iPods and iPads?
My desktop computer is my desktop computer, with a big screen so I can see several open windows at one time.
We do not spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on big screen computers just so that it acts like a magnified iPod/iPad.
I hope that Lion OS does not become the first ever Mac OS X version that I avoid.
My desktop computer is my desktop computer, with a big screen so I can see several open windows at one time.
We do not spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on big screen computers just so that it acts like a magnified iPod/iPad.
I hope that Lion OS does not become the first ever Mac OS X version that I avoid.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I have some points to enumerate.
So we have Spaces for OS X. It's great; I love it. I assign the applications I use (and groups thereof) to various Spaces to reduce window clutter (Adobe apps in one space, iWork/productivity in another, Safari separate from Mail separate from iChat, etc.).
The new gestures in iOS 4.3 are basically that in iPad form. Swipe between applications just how I swipe (Magic Trackpad and BetterTouchTool) between Spaces in OS X. It's WONDERFUL and it's how mobile multitasking should be done.
iOS is built out of an evolution of OS X, and while I don't want all desktop applications to be fullscreen (2560x1440 Cinema Display. I do NOT need a full-screened browser. Heck, no one does above 1024x768.), it makes sense to assign those that benefit from it (Aperture, Final Cut/Logic Studio) a Space and swipe to them in their own little ecosystem over there.
You can still "save as", whoever suggested you couldn't. Additionally versions can be deleted in various ways. This in in addition, it's an improvement. You've overcomplicated a very simple, easy automated system which helps workflow, not replaces anything.
[Note: I just discovered this thread so I apologize for jumping in late!}
Could you perhaps amplify your comments to include just how one can delete versions in various ways? I'm using Lion and haven't personally discovered any way. I don't mind if you reply via PM.
When you save as a duplicate, it becomes a new file, the contents of which are equal to the most current version of the document you just duplicated, and the version history is not copied over, the new duplicate is in effect version 1 of that new file, so it will only start to accrue new versions as and when the duplicate gets edited.
Thanks for the info. Please check your PMs as I just sent you one.
AppleInsider is completely incorrect regarding where the snapshots/revision changes are stored. They are not stored in the actual document file as the article states, but instead in, for example in the case of TextEdit, ~/Library/Containers/com.apple.TextEdit/Data/Library/Saved Application State.
Comments
Sometimes we need protection from these improvements meant to help us. Just one example, with "versions".
As I understand it, if i have a document three years old, and have edited it on a number of occasions, it's gonna exist in its original form plus all the overtly-saved "versions" AND all the auto-saves (default: once per hour). From the illustration, those versions are distinguished by date and time, but not renamed--as can be done using the save-as function. To find a desired "spot" in that continuum I have to search them all, instead of having useful, identifying filenames.
Say what?
Over the past two days, after a meeting with my attorney, I've revised my 2008 "Separate Writing" document that is a part of my will. When i initiated these recent edits, I opened the 2008 file and saved it as "Separate Writing v 2011". Pretty simple, right? I now have two "versions" of that separate writing--one with the suffix v 2008, and one with the suffix v 2011.
Which better serves my purposes? Clearly, the latter. From the illustration in this article, there's no option to "save as" and rename a file. So instead of two clearly identified (by filename) documents, I'd have perhaps 20 or more--all with the same filename, distinguished only by date and time that provide no insight into content, or intent.
So to me, this would be a step backwards. (Give me the ability to "save as version" AND rename that version, and i'm on board).
First of all "Duplicate" is the new "Save As...". It creates a duplicate of the most recent version of the file and allows you to save it under a different name and format.
When you're absolutely done with a document, you can lock it. Later when you want to make changes to it, you'll be reminded that it is locked. At that point you can either unlock it and modify the original, or by default, create a "duplicate".
There's nothing in this new feature that prevents you from working with documents as you normally do.
However, I do agree it would be a nice feature to be able to "bookmark" certain versions, and I'm sure if enough people send in a request for it, Apple may add it. This is a pre-beta release, so there is plenty of time for Apple to make changes where needed or desired.
I missed something: if you full-screen a window with a control in the drag region, how to you un-full-screen it?
When a window goes full screen the menubar disappears. However, if you move the mouse to the top of the display, the menubar slides down, and sitting on the right side of the menubar is a new control that allows you to leave full-screen mode.
I assume the controls and implementation to all of this is going through a research phase right now. When Lion was first demoed, you clicked the green button to go full-screen, in the current version, there's a separate control on the right side of the window title bar.
So where is the version info kept? If I send the file to someone, do they get the 'latest' file or the original with a million differences they have to process...
I've tried several ways to send a versioned file, they all come out flattened. No previous versions were sent with them.
I logged into MobileMe through Safari, sent a normal TextEdit file and sent an archived/zipped version of the same file.
In both Lion and Snow Leopard, both files only contained the most recent version.
So I'm guessing the OS is only giving you direct access to the most recent version while saving the "versioned" data somewhere else. So when you're working with the file in the Finder, you're always only dealing with the latest version.
Even if you copy the file in the Finder, you only end up with the current version of the file, it does not copy previous versions with it.
Mac OS X 10.7 Lion makes a conceptual leap away from the Mac's original focus on opening apps to create files
This is slightly off-topic, but the first sentence reminded me of the OpenDoc initiative from back in the day. Anyone else remember that?
The idea was to move the Mac OS to a document-centric paradigm, away from the app/program-centric one it was using, and continues to use today. Under OpenDoc, you would start a document by entering text with a word processing utility, then add a photo, crop, and stylize it with an image utility, and finally throw in a spreadsheet and graph with a spreadsheet utility (all done within the document, and without having to open three different apps).
One of the reasons that this document-centric approach failed was a lack of many small utilities that did one thing, and did it very well. It seems to me that this condition is now met, with the popularity of iPhone apps, and those beginning to cross over into the Mac App Store.
I wonder if Apple will attempt this paradigm shift again. If not in Mac OS X, then at least this strategy seems like a good idea for the iPad.
You can already close open application with Command + Tab + Q. Much faster than using a mouse. And we probably going to have some new ways to manage open applications with Mission Control, who knows?
Instead of going through the Save As - Locate the file - Do something with it -approach, there's going to be some Share/Export options that lets you easily send the file as a PDF for example. This is a huge step forward! Most of the time you don't need to share the original production file and if you do, then you just make a duplicate, easy as that!
It's sad to read all these negative comments when somebody (Apple) is finally trying to break free from these old and complete unnecessary steps we take every day to do things that even most basic computers should be able to handle for us ? I mean, that's why I bought a Mac in the first place! I got tired of tweaking and fixing my computer all the time, I wanted it just to work. The same logic applies to operating system and applications - I want to focus on the task at hand and not on maintaining backups.
So, if that's what it is, I really don't see the fuss about it. Though they should rename duplicate to final copy or something.
I don't like the resume thing that much. When I close an app, I want it closed, turned off, not on anymore. Most likely I don't want it to save its "session." I like the idea of them making the red button always turn off the app, but I hope they don't make it by default that you just close the window, but the app is always on running in the background. I know its kinda like that way now, and for some stuff, like iTunes, its useful, its just I want to make sure, when I do want the app completely turned off, its off. I don't care if its using 95% less resources, I just want it off. I hope they don't take out Application Name - Quite application / Command + Q.
Full screen idea is kinda cool, but I have a 27 inch iMac because I want to be able to have a lot of apps open, at once, and see them them all. Not one giant app taking up the whole screen. I own a computer, not a portable device with a small screen. This means now if I want to change window size I will always have to use resize and drag my window to be bigger or smaller. Be nice if they just made a new function key that forces the app to full screen, or at least allow us to decided what we want the green button to do.
At the end of the day, I hope they keep OS X a computer OS.
...When you are done editing the document, you save as duplicate to save one version that doesn't have the previous entries history saved in it as if it was a clean, final copy.
So, if that's what it is, I really don't see the fuss about it. Though they should rename duplicate to final copy or something.
I don't like the resume thing that much. When I close an app, I want it closed, turned off, not on anymore. Most likely I don't want it to save its "session." I like the idea of them making the red button always turn off the app, but I hope they don't make it by default that you just close the window, but the app is always on running in the background. I know its kinda like that way now, and for some stuff, like iTunes, its useful, its just I want to make sure, when I do want the app completely turned off, its off. I don't care if its using 95% less resources, I just want it off. I hope they don't take out Application Name - Quite application / Command + Q.
Full screen idea is kinda cool, but I have a 27 inch iMac because I want to be able to have a lot of apps open, at once, and see them them all. Not one giant app taking up the whole screen. I own a computer, not a portable device with a small screen. This means now if I want to change window size I will always have to use resize and drag my window to be bigger or smaller. Be nice if they just made a new function key that forces the app to full screen, or at least allow us to decided what we want the green button to do.
At the end of the day, I hope they keep OS X a computer OS.
[I just found this thread, thus my 'late' post here]
I agree with these sentiments.
While there are certainly some apps that I do want running much of the time --iCal, Preview, Text / Note / Journaling apps, that sort of thing-- there are certainly other apps that I want to be closed when I am done using it.
There is no reason for an app that I run one time a day or once a week, to be running in the background 24/7.
And yes, I would like a Final and Clean copy of a document, so that when I send it off to others as a final document, it is lean and trim and does not contain all my prior deletions. Shades of Microsoft Word "Fast Save" feature from years back. YIKES and YUCK!
And finally, I am also dismayed by what seems to be a trend towards making my Mac OS to be just a big iOS device.
Do you think that the Lion OS developers are writing code just on their iPods and iPads?
My desktop computer is my desktop computer, with a big screen so I can see several open windows at one time.
We do not spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on big screen computers just so that it acts like a magnified iPod/iPad.
I hope that Lion OS does not become the first ever Mac OS X version that I avoid.
My desktop computer is my desktop computer, with a big screen so I can see several open windows at one time.
We do not spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on big screen computers just so that it acts like a magnified iPod/iPad.
I hope that Lion OS does not become the first ever Mac OS X version that I avoid.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I have some points to enumerate.
So we have Spaces for OS X. It's great; I love it. I assign the applications I use (and groups thereof) to various Spaces to reduce window clutter (Adobe apps in one space, iWork/productivity in another, Safari separate from Mail separate from iChat, etc.).
The new gestures in iOS 4.3 are basically that in iPad form. Swipe between applications just how I swipe (Magic Trackpad and BetterTouchTool) between Spaces in OS X. It's WONDERFUL and it's how mobile multitasking should be done.
iOS is built out of an evolution of OS X, and while I don't want all desktop applications to be fullscreen (2560x1440 Cinema Display. I do NOT need a full-screened browser. Heck, no one does above 1024x768.), it makes sense to assign those that benefit from it (Aperture, Final Cut/Logic Studio) a Space and swipe to them in their own little ecosystem over there.
You can still "save as", whoever suggested you couldn't. Additionally versions can be deleted in various ways. This in in addition, it's an improvement. You've overcomplicated a very simple, easy automated system which helps workflow, not replaces anything.
[Note: I just discovered this thread so I apologize for jumping in late!}
Could you perhaps amplify your comments to include just how one can delete versions in various ways? I'm using Lion and haven't personally discovered any way. I don't mind if you reply via PM.
[No sarcasm/snark intend in the above question.]
When you save as a duplicate, it becomes a new file, the contents of which are equal to the most current version of the document you just duplicated, and the version history is not copied over, the new duplicate is in effect version 1 of that new file, so it will only start to accrue new versions as and when the duplicate gets edited.
Thanks for the info. Please check your PMs as I just sent you one.