Xcode 4 available to all on Apple's Mac App Store for $4.99

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    That's right, that was an amazing deal. I still have 3 of those $500 t-shirts lying around. The hardware discount was good though.



    LOL I had no use for the T-Shirt and extra Apple stickers. I either tossed mine in the trash or gave them away. Now they might be worth something.
  • Reply 62 of 94
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tails View Post


    If you buy the new OS as well, which was never free. XCode 2 released with 10.4, did not work with 10.3. XCode 3 released with 10.5, did not work with 10.4.



    XCode 4 released with 10.7, works with 10.6, for a 5$ fee.



    So your argument is that Xcode was never free because it typically required the latest version of the OS to run? I don't think it's usual to include the prerequisites for a thing when calculating a price. It was definitely free, and now it's $5 or $99.



    To follow your logic, Xcode 4 is quite a bit more heavyweight than Xcode 3. If we include prerequisites, I could argue that Xcode 4 requires a new Mac, therefore Apple just increased the price of their dev tools by thousands.
  • Reply 63 of 94
    gustavgustav Posts: 823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I hope they aren't offering a subscription outside of an app without also allowing the option to subscribe inside the app, tsk. Bundling emulators too.



    I think $100 a year is a lot to ask just to test apps.



    If all you are doing is testing apps, developers can build a version with your device's IMEI number that you can install using the iPhone Configuration Utility for you to test with. You don't need an iOS Dev membership at all.
  • Reply 64 of 94
    gustavgustav Posts: 823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post


    This. If you're learning something you can get done with just a computer then the only real skill you need to develop is Googlefoo.



    This explains all the poorly designed, buggy, and bloated software out there. People think they can read a book or two, google a little bit, and all of a sudden know about algorithm and data structure design, memory management, and UI design.
  • Reply 65 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    So your argument is that Xcode was never free because it typically required the latest version of the OS to run? I don't think it's usual to include the prerequisites for a thing when calculating a price. It was definitely free, and now it's $5 or $99.



    To follow your logic, Xcode 4 is quite a bit more heavyweight than Xcode 3. If we include prerequisites, I could argue that Xcode 4 requires a new Mac, therefore Apple just increased the price of their dev tools by thousands.



    You are not making any sense. XCode 4 does not require a new mac.



    This is the first time an XCode upgrade is being released without an accompanying OS upgrade.



    This is why people are confused. And this is why there's a fee.



    XCode 4 will be free for Lion users, most likely.



    So if Apple waited 3 months to release XCode 4, and released it together with Lion, like they did before, and didn't offer it for 10.6 users at all, nobody would be complaining. But they would be missing out on a new XCode for a 5$ fee.



    This is Apple being generous. Not greedy.



    If Apple charges 5$ for Lion users, then you can complain. Because you only need XCode 4 if you are going to develop for Lion. 3.2 is enough for every platform Apple is supporting right now, and it is free.
  • Reply 66 of 94
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tails View Post


    This is Apple being generous. Not greedy.



    Mate I hope you're having a laugh, because if not you really shouldn't twist your mind like that, no matter how much of a fan you are of something. You sound like a Christian trying to explain away all the evidence that the Earth is older than 5,000 years.
  • Reply 67 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Mate I hope you're having a laugh, because if not you really shouldn't twist your mind like that, no matter how much of a fan you are of something. You sound like a Christian trying to explain away all the evidence that the Earth is older than 5,000 years.



    Have you read what I wrote? Or did you just read that one line?



    This is the first time someone can say "I don't want to pay 129$ to upgrade to new OS, I only want to upgrade my XCode. How much is it? 5$? Ok."



    Before this, if you wanted new XCode, you had to pay 129$ because before this new XCodes did not work with old OS's.



    XCode 2 was released with 10.4 and did not work with 10.3.



    XCode 3 was released with 10.5 and did not work with 10.4.



    XCode 4 is being released, with 10.7 basically but it works with 10.6 as well, again, for the first time. But for a 5$ fee.



    Get it or do I need to make it even more clear?
  • Reply 68 of 94
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tails View Post


    Have you read what I wrote? Or did you just read that one line?



    I read what you wrote, and it was so mental, I had to wash my synapses out with soap and water. If you have to redefine the usual meaning of "price" in order to defend an action of Apple's, it should be a hint to you that you're skating on thin ice (psychologically as well as factually).
  • Reply 69 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    I read what you wrote, and it was so mental, I had to wash my synapses out with soap and water. If you have to redefine the usual meaning of "price" in order to defend an action of Apple's, it should be a hint to you that you're skating on thin ice (psychologically as well as factually).



    Ok, you read what I wrote but did you understand it?



    Because you certainly sound like you didn't, at all.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tails View Post


    Ok, you read what I wrote but did you understand it?



    Because you certainly sound like you didn't, at all.



    Yes I did understand it, I just think your interpretation of events in wrong. This is not Apple being magnanimous and giving us the 10.7 dev tools early for a small fee, it's them severing the OS X and Xcode release cycles, due to Xcode being as much (more?) about iOS now as OS X. And they are using the App Store to do it.
  • Reply 71 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Yes I did understand it, I just think your interpretation of events in wrong. This is not Apple being magnanimous and giving us the 10.7 dev tools early for a small fee, it's them severing the OS X and Xcode release cycles, due to Xcode being as much (more?) about iOS now as OS X. And they are using the App Store to do it.



    They are not severing the cycles.



    Lion works with XCode 4.1, not with XCode 4.0. And Lion will most probably include XCode 4.1 for free anyway. So the new OS will come with the required XCode, as before.



    People are freaking out like they "have to" pay 5$ to keep doing what they have been doing yesterday.



    They don't.



    You don't need XCode 4 to keep developing for 10.6 and iOS 4.3.

    XCode 3.2 supports both.



    You only need the 4.x if you want to develop for Lion, and possibly iOS 5.



    And I'm not interpreting anything. I'm stating FACTS.



    Fact: Apple never released a major XCode revision couple months before the major OS revision, until now.



    Fact: Apple never charged any money for a major XCode revision for the old OS, until now.



    Fact: Apple couldn't have charged any money for a major XCode revision for the old OS, because major XCode revisions did NOT work with the old OS to begin with, until now.



    So this is EXACTLY Apple giving their new XCode for the old OS userbase, for a very small fee.



    Like I said, if Apple doesn't include XCode 4.1 with Lion for free, only then you can complain. Because only then there's a change in their policy.



    So far this policy has NOT changed: If you buy an OS, it'll include the required XCode for free.
  • Reply 72 of 94
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by columbus View Post


    ...



    It's a sign of the times. When Mac OS X 10.0 shipped Apple gave away all dev tools to encourage anyone to write for Apple's platforms. Now they don't need to, people will pay them to write for their platforms.





    ....



    Until Xcode 4 and long before MacOS X 10.0, Apple's developer tools were free. It is disappointing that Apple now sees fit to charge for Xcode. I do take some solace in the fact that Xcode costs less than breakfast.
  • Reply 73 of 94
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eno12 View Post


    Objective-C is more or less just C with a smalltalk like interface for OOP. You NEED to understand how to program in C before you can learn Objective-C. That said, Apple has decent documentation on their Objective-C environment.



    You do need to understand C and even have passing knowledge of C++ depending upon what you may end updoing on one of Apples OS'es. But do get C under your belt first. Well maybe concurrently as you learn Objective C which is really a thin layer above C.



    Beyond that you really need to know object oriented programming concepts and especially MVC (model view controller). Depending upon you experience C is fairly easy to learn, what takes awhile is learning the API/SDK. It might be beneficial to look for training related to the SDK instead as the learning curve is larger.
  • Reply 74 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jschuur View Post


    You can actually still get Xcode 4 for free, if you're a registered (for the free plan) member of the Apple developer portal.



    Paying members will presumably get access to future betas, just like before Xcode 4 went final.



    Edit: Scratch that. Free members are linked to the $4.99 app store download. Can't get it for free after all.



    As a free developer, this is the first time Apple made me pay for XCode updates. Not that $4.99 is a lot.



    I can understand that they kept the free developers from downloading the XCode beta, because there would have been even more leaks that were contrary to the NDA.



    Still, Apple shouldn't target this large class of developers who actively contribute to add value to the platform, e.g., to lock their company into using Cocoa apps.
  • Reply 75 of 94
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post


    No, it has nothing to do with hardware. It has to do with software and drivers. Which is exactly what I said. As for the percentage, I didn't make any claims about it being the majority, either. As for your "failed dev" comment, that's just idiotic. Is your blood sugar low?



    I have to say that it is more than a failure it is just plain foolish. A developer that can't keep up or doesn't want to soon becomes useless.

    Quote:

    Thanks for posting. It's always amusing to be reminded that *anyone* can get on the Internet these days.



    Yep even the Luddites.
  • Reply 76 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post


    As a free developer, this is the first time Apple made me pay for XCode updates. Not that $4.99 is a lot.




    Actually this is the 3rd time Apple makes you pay for XCode updates.



    Can you point out when did you actually get a new XCode version without paying anything? That includes without buying a new OS to use it as well.
  • Reply 77 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    Until Xcode 4 and long before MacOS X 10.0, Apple's developer tools were free. It is disappointing that Apple now sees fit to charge for Xcode. I do take some solace in the fact that Xcode costs less than breakfast.



    XCode 4 might still be free, if it comes free with Lion.



    So until then, stop whining.
  • Reply 78 of 94
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    First $5.00 is nothing. Especially considering what you have access to. Think about it, do you really believe Apple will make money on XCode at $5.00 a head? It is highly doubtful especially considering how many tools projects they are supporting right now.



    Second it is a given that new software will require advance hardware support, that is why developers should avoid bargain basement hardware. It has been the case since the first ZpC hit the market, you either wait or throw more hardware at your tools. People should be happy that Apple has refactored XCode because frankly the old version was buggy as hell.



    So really if you want to complain take the new XCode, find the bugs and report them to Apple. If $5.00 is to much for you skip a couple of beers this week.
  • Reply 79 of 94
    tailstails Posts: 35member
    Read for once before you post.



    XCode 4 costs ONLY for Snow Leopard for now.



    It might be free, like ALL the previous XCode updates, if you buy the OS upgrade as well.



    So wait until Lion, and if Apple still charges 5$ for Lion users, whine then.
  • Reply 80 of 94
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post


    No, "everyone else" cannot purchase it, because a large portion of the user base never upgraded to Snow Leopard due to the huge range of compatibility problems (see snowleopard.wikidot.com), and the App Store is Snow Leopard only.



    That's why The App Store and a whole bunch of other things have been artificially limited to Snow Leopard; they're trying to accumulate enough reasons to force the holdouts to switch -- unfortunately, this mechanism abuses their customers.



    The correct path would to have been to ensure compatibility for the huge range of applications and drivers they broke with Snow Leopard. When they chose not to do that, they hard-forked the user base. No, not a typo.



    Every iteration has left people behind, this is not news. Several examples on that site that I checked are outdated, so the list's existence isn't a good indication of anything. It's just a wiki, and its last update by anyone was two months ago. One example, the Ableton Live entry, is about 18 months out of date.
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