The Pro Mouse Thread Strikes Back

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
So, I've been over poking around in the OS X forum reading about the upcoming "Shrink-n-Toss" window feature on OS X 10.2 and was reminded of our discussions about a new Apple Mouse a year or so ago.



Does anyone think that Apple will introduce a multi-button (meaning more than one) mouse NOW? I believe that OS X recognizes multi-button mice and scroll-wheel mice right out of the box.



D
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 59
    ybotybot Posts: 329member
    I refuse to use a 1-button mouse. Period. It's soooo counter-productive. I also refuse to believe that the general populous' brains are incapable of learning 2 buttons on a mouse.



    Winbloze users manage, Mac users should be able to. I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to release a multi-button mouse, but so far nothing.



    Hopefully one day someone will convince jobs having two buttons doesn't mean the end of civilization.



    -Y
  • Reply 2 of 59
    [quote]Originally posted by drewprops:

    <strong>So, does anyone think that Apple will introduce a multi-button (meaning more than one) mouse NOW? I believe that OS X recognizes multi-button mice and scroll-wheel mice right out of the box.



    D</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I love the Pro Mouse - keep the same form factor just extend the rocking motion to implement a "back click" as the second "mouse button". Include a discrete wheel for scrolling and you have the perfect input device - we don't need buttons.
  • Reply 3 of 59
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    [quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:

    <strong>



    I love the Pro Mouse - keep the same form factor just extend the rocking motion to implement a "back click" as the second "mouse button". Include a discrete wheel for scrolling and you have the perfect input device - we don't need buttons.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'd agree with you there. Personally pressing control doesn't really impede my productivity though.



    I've never quite understood the fuss with multi-buttoned mice except when it comes to games. I'm strange like that though I guess <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
  • Reply 4 of 59
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,517member
    [quote]Originally posted by Ybot:

    <strong>I refuse to use a 1-button mouse. Period. It's soooo counter-productive. I also refuse to believe that the general populous' brains are incapable of learning 2 buttons on a mouse.



    Winbloze users manage, Mac users should be able to. I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to release a multi-button mouse, but so far nothing.



    Hopefully one day someone will convince jobs having two buttons doesn't mean the end of civilization.



    -Y</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I've never understood why people get so excited about the number of buttons on the mouse. If you don't like the one that ships with your computer buy another one. The one button mouse is simple and works well for lots of people.
  • Reply 5 of 59
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    Heres what I want to see happen to the mouse:



    2 buttons plus scroll wheel heres how:



    Front to back motion turns into complex front to back and side to side motion. Press down on left button and left side goes down, left front goes down, and vice versa for right side



    Scroll wheel-make very slight finger shaped indention in middle of mouse, touch sensitive, pressing down in center hits both buttons making equivalent of a scroll click....can be duplicated with double finger click, and dragging mouse to do the same thing as scroll wheel. Or use the touch pad.



    Inside of mouse=chromed over, like the area where on the pro mouse it is black or on the imac pro mouse it is white, black apple logo.



    to make keyboard match chrome the keys over.



    Would look F!cking sweet with the iMac, iBook, and new powermac case depending on style.



    Make control panel not recognize left/right click if user desires, but single button emulation.
  • Reply 6 of 59
    [quote]Originally posted by drewprops:

    <strong>So, I've been over poking around in the OS X forum reading about the upcoming "Shrink-n-Toss" window feature on OS X 10.2 and was reminded of our discussions about a new Apple Mouse a year or so ago.



    Does anyone think that Apple will introduce a multi-button (meaning more than one) mouse NOW? I believe that OS X recognizes multi-button mice and scroll-wheel mice right out of the box.



    D</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ok, i just want to make sure i understand you...

    "multi-button" means more than one button?



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 6 of 59
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    Heres what I want to see happen to the mouse:



    2 buttons plus scroll wheel heres how:



    Front to back motion turns into complex front to back and side to side motion. Press down on left button and left side goes down, left front goes down, and vice versa for right side



    Scroll wheel-make very slight finger shaped indention in middle of mouse, touch sensitive, pressing down in center hits both buttons making equivalent of a scroll click....can be duplicated with double finger click, and dragging mouse to do the same thing as scroll wheel. Or use the touch pad.



    Inside of mouse=chromed over, like the area where on the pro mouse it is black or on the imac pro mouse it is white, black apple logo.



    to make keyboard match chrome the keys over.



    Would look F!cking sweet with the iMac, iBook, and new powermac case depending on style.



    Make control panel not recognize left/right click if user desires, but single button emulation.
  • Reply 8 of 59
    cdhostagecdhostage Posts: 1,038member
    I DO wish Apple would provide a two-utton moouse. Maybe as a BTO
  • Reply 9 of 59
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    First of all third party developers are doing fine with their mice so what's the problem.



    Apple should only do something different if it is going to innovate and CHANGE the way we interface with the computer. It ain't like Apple is going to make a ton of money off of a two-button mouse.



    I like one-button only because I don't play games, I don't use photoshop and at work on a PC the first button is basically too simple, why? Because Windows assumes if you want contextual menus, you'll buy a 2-button mouse. Apple actually gives the first button some decent functionality thru its OS. So I think 2-buttons are fine, but not if it means Apple uses it as a crutch and changes its OS for us 1-button types!



    The best of all worlds is for Apple to do just as it is, make the best OS that requires only one button, but add 2-button support.



    One innovation I'd like to see is in the scroll-wheel though. Just as Apple was the first to put trackpads on portables, I'd like to see Apple change the scrollwheel function in some way, like a thumb jogdial or something that doesn't require your index finger to feel like it is grating cheese through a 10-page word document.
  • Reply 10 of 59
    heinzelheinzel Posts: 105member
    I don't actually use Macs very much but even doing electronic artwork on PCs I rarely use the second mouse button and don't really see much of a *necessity* here, although it would be nice as an option. I mostly use keyboard shortcuts which are a lot faster to achieve the same, at least if you are used to them enough (the right mouse button DOES help in finding out about your most common option though). What really does bug me often is that I have to move one of my hand off the mouse or across the keyboard to hit the return or delete keys. Bruce Tognazini already suggested second delete and return keys on the left of the keyboard, which in my opinion would be *WAY* more innovative and productivity-enhancing than adding a second mouse button as a default.
  • Reply 11 of 59
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by Telomar:

    <strong>



    I'd agree with you there. Personally pressing control doesn't really impede my productivity though.



    I've never quite understood the fuss with multi-buttoned mice except when it comes to games. I'm strange like that though I guess <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I guess you don't use PhotoShop on a daily basis.
  • Reply 12 of 59
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    I use Photoshop 7.0 b43 in OS X on a 233MHz iMac daily with a puck mouse. Maybe I'm just missing something .
  • Reply 13 of 59
    jwdawsojwdawso Posts: 355member
    [quote]Originally posted by heinzel:

    <strong>... What really does bug me often is that I have to move one of my hand off the mouse or across the keyboard to hit the return or delete keys. Bruce Tognazini already suggested second delete and return keys on the left of the keyboard, which in my opinion would be *WAY* more innovative and productivity-enhancing than adding a second mouse button as a default.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    You are so right - if I've got my hand on the mouse, I don't want to go back to the keyboard. Maybe this is not a mouse thing, rather a UI thing...



    My .02 is that the pro mouse is way cool, so I'd rather have one button than a mouse that's got too many features to it. I'd like Apple to give great support for input devices, so we can have joysticks, tablets, etc. that really help for a particular application (or group of applications - i.e., games).



    Spart - so when's Photoshop 7 coming out???? (Got any G5 test boxes to tell us about?)



    [ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: jwdawso ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 59
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Ack...a backclick? Our palms aren't dexterous like our fingers...bad idea.



    Have you seen any mice with buttons on the palm rest? There's a reason you haven't.
  • Reply 15 of 59
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>

    I guess you don't use PhotoShop on a daily basis.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Nup I don't I'm an engineer/scientist depending on the person I work for. Although I do have a copy for some unknown reason.



    Most of Apple's market wouldn't use it on a daily basis and those that do.



    Without a better running knowledge of Photoshop I can't know how it impedes your productivity. I'm sure if it is such a great issue then you can easily buy a mouse to go with Photoshop though. It is hardly a substantial cost compared to Photoshop.



    That said I see no reason for Apple not to do it but people seem overly caught up in whether Apple gives you one. If I buy a pre-built PC and don't like the mouse I go out and buy a new one. Same thing here. No big deal.
  • Reply 16 of 59
    [quote]2 buttons plus scroll wheel heres how:



    Front to back motion turns into complex front to back and side to side motion. Press down on left button and left side goes down, left front goes down, and vice versa for right side<hr></blockquote>



    Something like this already exists:







    I bought this several months ago, and all I can say is that it looks really cool, and works just about ok. Takes a lot of getting used to.
  • Reply 17 of 59
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong>Ack...a backclick? Our palms aren't dexterous like our fingers...bad idea.



    Have you seen any mice with buttons on the palm rest? There's a reason you haven't.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Exactly. You'd have RSI in an hour with a backclick. Plus, most people use their fingers to control the mouse, not their palms.



    Apple would have a lawsuit in a few hours after releasing something like that.



    A scroll wheel is doable with the pro mouse design, though.
  • Reply 18 of 59
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Scroll whell on the current pro mouse is easy and so is a back click. The only catch with a back click is double clicking wouldn't be so great and sensitivity would be an issue.



    Consider all you need to click backward is put pressure downwards on your palm. It is really very easy. I could do it day in day out for a month and I'm sure I wouldn't see side effects.



    It may not be the best design but you'd have a hell of a time proving it did damage to your wrist considering the stresses aren't that different to what you currently put your hand and wrist through.
  • Reply 19 of 59
    jobesjobes Posts: 106member
    i dunno if any of you are aware of <a href="http://www.evomouse.com/"; target="_blank">this</a> from evomouse ... its peecee only and i've not played with a full version but it uses a weird rocking and swivel motion for direction coupled with a multi-button configuration



    IMO if it ain't broke, don't fix it ... keep shipping a single button mouse with macs. Apple does have a good selection of 3rd party peripheral manufacturers supporting them ... i have several mates who swear by trackballs and i can't do without my microsoft optical explorer for all the contextual menus i use in photoshop, cinema 4d, flash, peak etc. Apple stores carry these products, so if you want that functionality, you can get it easily.



    Apple gave us contextual menus in OS 8 ... they've been invaluable for me since and i'm gald i can right-click to use them, but it's my choice ... my mom just doesn't get the idea of CONTROL clicking and she's had a mac for 10 years ... I guess that kind of user attitude is important for Apple to consider.



    It's people like Alessandro Levi Montalcini Â*(who dev'd USB overdrive and the new OS X drivers for the M$) who make the mac a platform where the user gets to chose whether they want to use 1,2,3 or more buttoned mice. I think we have a good selection right now, we just need better driver support for OS X ...



    [ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: jobes ]</p>
  • Reply 20 of 59
    Sure, I can buy a mouse third party, so what's the problem? Well in that case why does Apple ship their computers with mice at all?? I mean, if I'm just going to throw out their mouse and use my own, right? And while they're at it, they can leave out the keyboard, because we can all buy those aftermarket as well.



    I think the Mac OS is much more usable with a two button mouse w/ scrollwheel. Sure, I can memorize a bunch of modifier keys, and then use two hands to hold a key and click the mouse, but it's much easier to use one hand and click a second mouse button. Isn't that what the Mac is about, is ease of use? Logical use? What is logical about using awkward modifier keys with a single button mouse?



    I've found that most mac users don't even know about the modifier keys, so they are stuck with a single button, single action mouse. So much of OS X's functionality comes from cont-click behavior that it seems ridiculous that only people who buy a third party mouse get to experience this functionality.



    For those of you who like a single button mouse, it would be easy to only use one of the buttons on a two button mouse. I'm sure you could use that single button with modifier keys, and it would work the same as a single button mouse. This way everyone would be happy, and people would be saved from spending extra on a mouse to use with their $2500 computers.
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