got a bunch of stupid white kids in the cornfields in Iowa trying to think they're bad asses after listening to their Gangsta' rap and wanting to be hardcore.
rap is poisening the minds of young people and adults alike.
rap today is a shock oriented "i can be badder than everyone else" pile of dung that is no longer talent oriented but rather who can be more disgusting than anyone else.
<strong>Rock is usually more destructive to the singers, than the fans. However, rap is universally linked to gang violence, drive-by's, prostitutes, and drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And rock is universally linked to individual violence, mosh pits (and the resultant violence/deaths), groupies (and general loss of sexual morality) and a hell of a lot harder drugs than rap promotes.
And ast3r3x has a great point about those things having created rap as we know it today. That's where "hardcore" rap was born, not vice-versa.
A "rock" singer even sees it that way, one of my favorite quotes on the issue comes from Marilyn Manson: "Does the music make us do what we do? No, we make the music do what it does."
Mobb Deep never killed anyone, and neither did Judas Priest.
Haha but you see those white kids in the corn fields of Iowa listen to crap rap that isn't even true hip-hop. They like Nelly and Ja Rule etc. Even most white kids who like rap will NOT like Tupac.
Give the kids Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, Tupac, Gangstarr, Eric B, Rakim, Redman, KRS One, etc...
[quote]You're kidding me, alcimedes; gangsters, drugs and prostitution (the oldest profession in the world) didn't exist before rap? They weren't prevalent?<hr></blockquote>
they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."
rap has turned into crap. the original stuff was pretty decent, but it's turned into a race to see who can sell to the lowest common demoninator.
condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.
find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.
then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.
it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.
i think for the most part this is due to popularity of the genre though. it sells, so a lot is made. there's limited talent to pick from, so the void is filled with crap.
if/when rap becomes less popular, you'll see a corresponding rise in the quality of the art.
<strong>they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."</strong><hr></blockquote>
That happens now?
[quote]<strong>condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
"Art" is a malleable term. I'm not convinced that 90% of the music put out today is "art". To someone from a ghetto Shakespeare can be useless crap while Jurassic 5 will inspire them to go towards bigger things. It's too subjective.
It's entertainment, yes, it doesn't promote senseless violence, rape and disrespecting women any more than, say, million-selling video games. Mainstream rock is quite mysoginystic. (I don't know where you get "rape" from, anyway.)
[quote]<strong>find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A parental advisory sticker means absolutely nothing. Some of the best albums of the last 15 years have a parental advisory sticker.
See my "Cussing" thread in FC for my opinion on profanity.
[quote]<strong>then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tupac was no woman-loving poet, his few "Dear Mama" songs notwithstanding.
I don't see how rap needs to be positive to be valid. Hard rock certainly doesn't have that requirement. My favorite rock is usually depressing, disturbing or outright violent.
Not to offend, but the way you're talking it sounds very much like you don't listen to hip-hop at all.
[quote]<strong>it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And rock'n'roll has relied on the same heavy/soft/heavy/soft song structure for the last 20 years.
Since hip-hop originated as a music of gathering it makes perfect sense that it is tied right into the culture it comes from. If you don't get the references, something as simple as a single sound then you're lost.
"You have to have heard the joke before." - Lenny Bruce
I love pop-culture and my mind (like most college males my age) is a warehouse full of reference: so I get it, I've heard the joke before. I'm not a gang-banging negro from Compton, but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to like it. Using that logic then blacks aren't supposed to like Shakespeare.
You get stuff like 2 Live Crew, of course, which was just ignorant, but they are the exception, not the rule. If you're watching MTV then you've got problems anyway, don't look there for good music of any kind.
Should 12-year-olds listen to "Hit 'em Up" before going to school every day? Probably not.
Does an 18-year-old listening to "Hit 'em Up" make him a woman-abusing murdering rapist? No.
[quote] (...) But the only rapper I listen to consistently is Tupac. He was more of a poet than a rapper and, while it continued until his death, his earlier work was a lot more 'true', but he had some great songs (he wrote all of his lyrics, and a lot were very deep) even at the end. The best metaphor I've ever heard was Pac's: "a rose that grew from the cracks of the concrete." <hr></blockquote>
I simply don't get the whole Tupac thing. I'm not trolling, I simply believe he was one seriously over-rated musician.
More of a poet than a rapper? Have you actually read his poetry? It is, quite simply, shit. His arrangements were hardly groundbreaking and there are so, so many FAR more conscious, far less self-obsessed and far, far more politically astute rhymers that I just don't know why we keep on blethering on about the guy. I don't get it. Maybe he was a really nice guy. I never met him. All I remember of him is that he was quite good and raspy on the early Digital Underground albums, he loved his mum and he grew up around the Panthers. And he was good in 'Juice'. And he looked like a DICKHEAD in every photograph of him I ever saw.
And he was no more a poet than I am.
Having said that, don't even compare him to Biggie, who produced bog-standard commercial hip-hop aimed to bring in the bling. What? He didn't give a toss and I can't remember a SINGLE ONE of his rhymes.
Just re-read my post and it's a bit, um, forthright.
But really.
Look at Mos Def. Better flow, more intelligent lyrics, and the guy's actually set up organisations to help "his community" to boot. What did Tupac ever REALLY contribute, politically, apart from a few lines telling us it's OK to be pissed off with white people?
I don't know, I don't know.
Look at Saul Williams. "I won't ever rhyme over tracks: / Niggers on a chain-gang used to that / Way back... / Not until you've heard Rakim on a rocky mountain top / Have you HEARD hip-hop."
It seems that the "Finnish Bomber" was a Tupac fan...
"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"
Oh lord, now we're trying to turn this discussion into politics. I'm sure I can point to every single example of where kids listnin to rock or heavy metal or what not have gone on the rage, just as you can point to the hip hop cases. It's not the music, it's the person.
<strong>It seems that the "Finnish Bomber" was a Tupac fan...
"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"
[/URL]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, you have to use that in context. He was shot many times during his life BUT when he said killing, he didn't mean literally.
"Murder mutha-*****s lyrically, and I'm not gonna cry."
Ahh, this is all subjective anyway. We like what we like.
Comments
got a bunch of stupid white kids in the cornfields in Iowa trying to think they're bad asses after listening to their Gangsta' rap and wanting to be hardcore.
rap is poisening the minds of young people and adults alike.
rap today is a shock oriented "i can be badder than everyone else" pile of dung that is no longer talent oriented but rather who can be more disgusting than anyone else.
well, at least IMO.
<strong>Rock is usually more destructive to the singers, than the fans. However, rap is universally linked to gang violence, drive-by's, prostitutes, and drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And rock is universally linked to individual violence, mosh pits (and the resultant violence/deaths), groupies (and general loss of sexual morality) and a hell of a lot harder drugs than rap promotes.
And ast3r3x has a great point about those things having created rap as we know it today. That's where "hardcore" rap was born, not vice-versa.
A "rock" singer even sees it that way, one of my favorite quotes on the issue comes from Marilyn Manson: "Does the music make us do what we do? No, we make the music do what it does."
Mobb Deep never killed anyone, and neither did Judas Priest.
<strong>Biggie was liek an Apple computer, style, grace, overall better and more refined
2pac was like a PC with linux...still a PC, but ahead of the rest</strong><hr></blockquote>
*cough*sputter*choke*thud.
Good job, ast3r3x, you just killed Gambit. You bastard!
Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree. heh
<strong>
*cough*sputter*choke*thud.
Good job, ast3r3x, you just killed Gambit. You bastard!
Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree. heh</strong><hr></blockquote>
haha ok its a tie...with emphasis on me
Give the kids Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, Tupac, Gangstarr, Eric B, Rakim, Redman, KRS One, etc...
show them what bein a real hip-hop head is about.
Eric B. For President
they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."
rap has turned into crap. the original stuff was pretty decent, but it's turned into a race to see who can sell to the lowest common demoninator.
condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.
find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.
then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.
it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.
i think for the most part this is due to popularity of the genre though. it sells, so a lot is made. there's limited talent to pick from, so the void is filled with crap.
if/when rap becomes less popular, you'll see a corresponding rise in the quality of the art.
<strong>they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."</strong><hr></blockquote>
That happens now?
[quote]<strong>condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
"Art" is a malleable term. I'm not convinced that 90% of the music put out today is "art". To someone from a ghetto Shakespeare can be useless crap while Jurassic 5 will inspire them to go towards bigger things. It's too subjective.
It's entertainment, yes, it doesn't promote senseless violence, rape and disrespecting women any more than, say, million-selling video games. Mainstream rock is quite mysoginystic. (I don't know where you get "rape" from, anyway.)
[quote]<strong>find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A parental advisory sticker means absolutely nothing. Some of the best albums of the last 15 years have a parental advisory sticker.
See my "Cussing" thread in FC for my opinion on profanity.
[quote]<strong>then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tupac was no woman-loving poet, his few "Dear Mama" songs notwithstanding.
I don't see how rap needs to be positive to be valid. Hard rock certainly doesn't have that requirement. My favorite rock is usually depressing, disturbing or outright violent.
Not to offend, but the way you're talking it sounds very much like you don't listen to hip-hop at all.
[quote]<strong>it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And rock'n'roll has relied on the same heavy/soft/heavy/soft song structure for the last 20 years.
Since hip-hop originated as a music of gathering it makes perfect sense that it is tied right into the culture it comes from. If you don't get the references, something as simple as a single sound then you're lost.
"You have to have heard the joke before." - Lenny Bruce
I love pop-culture and my mind (like most college males my age) is a warehouse full of reference: so I get it, I've heard the joke before. I'm not a gang-banging negro from Compton, but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to like it. Using that logic then blacks aren't supposed to like Shakespeare.
You get stuff like 2 Live Crew, of course, which was just ignorant, but they are the exception, not the rule. If you're watching MTV then you've got problems anyway, don't look there for good music of any kind.
Should 12-year-olds listen to "Hit 'em Up" before going to school every day? Probably not.
Does an 18-year-old listening to "Hit 'em Up" make him a woman-abusing murdering rapist? No.
<strong>That happens now?</strong><hr></blockquote>You've never met EmAn outside the boards, have you?
Genius.
proof Biggie was better...
More of a poet than a rapper? Have you actually read his poetry? It is, quite simply, shit. His arrangements were hardly groundbreaking and there are so, so many FAR more conscious, far less self-obsessed and far, far more politically astute rhymers that I just don't know why we keep on blethering on about the guy. I don't get it. Maybe he was a really nice guy. I never met him. All I remember of him is that he was quite good and raspy on the early Digital Underground albums, he loved his mum and he grew up around the Panthers. And he was good in 'Juice'. And he looked like a DICKHEAD in every photograph of him I ever saw.
And he was no more a poet than I am.
Having said that, don't even compare him to Biggie, who produced bog-standard commercial hip-hop aimed to bring in the bling. What? He didn't give a toss and I can't remember a SINGLE ONE of his rhymes.
WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS?
But really.
Look at Mos Def. Better flow, more intelligent lyrics, and the guy's actually set up organisations to help "his community" to boot. What did Tupac ever REALLY contribute, politically, apart from a few lines telling us it's OK to be pissed off with white people?
I don't know, I don't know.
Look at Saul Williams. "I won't ever rhyme over tracks: / Niggers on a chain-gang used to that / Way back... / Not until you've heard Rakim on a rocky mountain top / Have you HEARD hip-hop."
Yes indeed.
But my tastes aren't mainstream, I acknowledge.
"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/15/helsinki.blast/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/15/helsinki.blast/index.html</a>;
<strong>It seems that the "Finnish Bomber" was a Tupac fan...
"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"
[/URL]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, you have to use that in context. He was shot many times during his life BUT when he said killing, he didn't mean literally.
"Murder mutha-*****s lyrically, and I'm not gonna cry."
Ahh, this is all subjective anyway. We like what we like.