Another sign of the waning influence of labor unions in America. Good riddance!
Another two bit Far Right comment with zero substance.
I tell ya what, how about you go bitch about the > $1 Trillion in corporate welfare of late, not to mention several trillion over the past 20 years this country has given to Corporations and not it's middle class to spur the economy.
WOAH! I don't know about NY Unions but the 'principle' behind labour unions is good. I am not saying there isn't thuggery but the idea of an organization standing up for the 'worker', you know, the 'common man' is a good thing in principle, right?. Unless, of course, you really believe that the government ensures that people are treated fairly in all walks of life.
WOAH! If you think for a minute that unions are all about the workers best interests then you are delusional. I would be the last person to say that the government is great but it is their role.
The "principal" behind unions is that they need to survive. In order to survive, they need members who pay dues. Those are the only "principles". They will do anything in their power, legal or otherwise to make it happen.
People like you who base things on some sort of "theory" and have no experience with reality are scary. You don't know anything about the situation but have an opinion anyway.
Agreed One Hundred percent! Union members are parasites who contribute nothing to the companies that employ them, driving up costs that make companies uncompetitive. Just look at GM for goodness sakes.
GM failed repeatedly to uphold it's contracts. Blame GM, not the Labor Unions.
By the way, GM sucks because their cars suck. You make a crappy product you don't go blaming the lack of market share on the assemblers.
Another two bit Far Right comment with zero substance.
I tell ya what, how about you go bitch about the > $1 Trillion in corporate welfare of late, not to mention several trillion over the past 20 years this country has given to Corporations and not it's middle class to spur the economy.
You just might get someone to listen to it.
That is another issue that doesn't relate to unions.
There is always a balance to be struck between Employee and Employer.
This country extorted it's labor class for > 100 years and they revolted.
Unions were created and leveraged to exert power back against the corporations who don't exist without them.
Corporations continue to suck off the nation's teets and blame all their woes on Labor.
They used that bait n' switch to use cheap labor overseas and asked for more subsidies in the form of tax breaks.
They continued to make crappy products and continued to blame the labor and not their own designs and ideas.
There is a balance and until corporations own their failures you won't see labor giving a rat's ass about them.
Crapping on the Labor force will only result in Labor Unions restoring growth at record numbers. Corporations thinking short term are fools and will reap what they sew.
A Union has no need for existence if the balance between Bosses and Labor was a amenable and mutually beneficial relationship.
GM failed repeatedly to uphold it's contracts. Blame GM, not the Labor Unions.
By the way, GM sucks because their cars suck. You make a crappy product you don't go blaming the lack of market share on the assemblers.
I won't argue whether or not GM has or had bad management or about the quality of their products. However it's not very easy to compete with other companies when you look at what demands the UAW won and how much it cost the company in money, lost efficiency and lack of progress.
The UAW unionized workers at Cornell University (please, what does a university have to do with the automobile industry?!) and were a pain in the ass with all their demands and requirements, especially those that penalized students by curtailing the work-study programs so the union could get more jobs. Shameful!
These anti-union rants are all made in ignorance. Union jobs used to provide decent wages to middle class families. These jobs are being exported in record numbers. America is in a race to the bottom. The middle class is shrinking so fast America will soon be a second world country. The walmartisation of american jobs will result in nobody being able to afford anything. Why is it that when union jobs are exported the anti-union crowd approves, but when those workers come to the US you scream bloody murder.
Just remember that no matter what you do for a living, everyone else thinks it is too much and there is a long line of people willing to do your job for less.
WOAH! If you think for a minute that unions are all about the workers best interests then you are delusional. I would be the last person to say that the government is great but it is their role.
The "principal" behind unions is that they need to survive. In order to survive, they need members who pay dues. Those are the only "principles". They will do anything in their power, legal or otherwise to make it happen.
People like you who base things on some sort of "theory" and have no experience with reality are scary. You don't know anything about the situation but have an opinion anyway.
Don't be scared. I won't bite. You didn't say government is great but you did present the idea that government ensures fair treatment of all its citizens in all walks of life as an argument. That makes you a little scary, come to think of it.
To state that the "principal" as you put it, behind unions is their need to survive, is naive. That is not a principle per se, though I agree that it is a requisite for any union's ability to perform.
I don't see why you are so worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions. I don't base 'things' on some sort of 'theory'. I am not claiming unions are beacons of high morality or any such thing. I am sure many unions are as corrupt as you imply but I belong to a union (of sorts) which does great work in lobbying the government on behalf of its members. It clearly is a very different organization than what you deal with on a weekly basis. Its not in the US and its not run by the mafia.
There is always a balance to be struck between Employee and Employer.
This country extorted it's labor class for > 100 years and they revolted.
Unions were created and leveraged to exert power back against the corporations who don't exist without them.
Corporations continue to suck off the nation's teets and blame all their woes on Labor.
They used that bait n' switch to use cheap labor overseas and asked for more subsidies in the form of tax breaks.
They continued to make crappy products and continued to blame the labor and not their own designs and ideas.
There is a balance and until corporations own their failures you won't see labor giving a rat's ass about them.
Crapping on the Labor force will only result in Labor Unions restoring growth at record numbers. Corporations thinking short term are fools and will reap what they sew.
A Union has no need for existence if the balance between Bosses and Labor was a amenable and mutually beneficial relationship.
You are very poorly educated on the subject. As I stated before, unions are a business unto themselves. they generate money as monopolies within companies through dues. The more members and the higher the employee benefits, the more money they make.
They are never going to say:" our job is done, no more unions". Anyone who thinks that someone is going to give up making all that money because they are not needed anymore is dreaming.
Don't be scared. I won't bite. You didn't say government is great but you did present the idea that government treats its citizens fairly in all walks of life as an argument. That makes you a little scary, come to think of it.
To state that the "principal" as you put it, behind unions is their need to survive, is naive. That is not a principle per se, though I agree that it is a requisite for any union's ability to perform.
I don't see why you are so worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions. I don't base 'things' on some sort of 'theory'. I am not claiming unions are beacons of high morality or any such thing. I am sure many unions are as corrupt as you imply but I belong to a union (of sorts) which does great work in lobbying the government on behalf of its members. It clearly is a very different organization than what you deal with on a weekly basis. Its not in the US and its not run by the mafia.
Sorry but you fail at reading comprehension. I never even remotely said that government treats it's citizens fairly in all walks of life. I would be the LAST person to ever say that.
Where did I ever say that I was worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions? That's what I'm doing here, no? The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said and accuse me of things that aren't true is scary.
LOL, your union or whatever it is, you don't say what it is exactly, is great because it lobbies the government on behalf of it's members? How is that great? Who benefits? The world? Your country?Mankind? Or the union members?
You are very poorly educated on the subject. As I stated before, unions are a business unto themselves. they generate money as monopolies within companies through dues. The more members and the higher the employee benefits, the more money they make.
They are never going to say:" our job is done, no more unions". Anyone who thinks that someone is going to give up making all that money because they are not needed anymore is dreaming.
It is quite evident that you are ignorant of the labor movement. The reason we have unions is because of bad management. You claim to deal with unions on a 'weekly' basis. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to your first hand knowledge as a bad manager.
a bad manager is one who allows his business to become unionized. and this message comes to you (whoever you are) from somebody who, in nyc, dealt with the ibew (electicians) thugs, sheetmetal workers, painters union, stagehands and operating engineers. even the food truck who brought coffee was unionized.
try and bring something into javits center on a luggage rack and then tell me all about your pleasant experience.
unmitigated fall is when some union leeches, spending union dues, try to recommend the ouster of a board member from the most successful company in the usa.
they mustered up about 3.8 million votes. jobs alone owns over 100 million shares. shows you their mentality when they are spending somebody elses money. they have no credibility and continue to have delusions.
suggest they come to nj to find out which way the wind is blowing. nyc is not far behind.
To me - I am a former member of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers - unions are what Ayn Rand would call an attempt for the unearned.
Unions are parasitic by their very nature: they do not produce a product; they skim off the top of other people's industry; they will eventually eat a company alive with ever-increasing costly demands. I do not believe most people would belong to a union given a choice; most union shops are closed, compulsory.
Union members are forced to see their dues contributed to liberal politicians whether or not that member supports said politician. They promote socialist dogma, i.e. abortion on demand, under the guise of supporting women's rights.
I don't see this happening under present political conditions, but I would like to see Unions, which are truly political organizations with political agendas, as shareholders but without voting rights.
Finally, check out an old Peter Sellers movie, "I'm Allright Jack!" It was intended as a satire and wound up being cinema verite.
Sorry but you fail at reading comprehension. I never even remotely said that government treats it's citizens fairly in all walks of life. I would be the LAST person to ever say that.
What you said was: 'The government makes sure ( at least is supposed to) that people are treated fairly in all aspects of life'. In other words you presented the idea as part of your argument, did you not? You may have qualified it with '(at least it is supposed to)', but what does that mean in the context?
Quote:
Where did I ever say that I was worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions? That's what I'm doing here, no? The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said and accuse me of things that aren't true is scary.
I didn't say you said that (help!). You dismissed me on the grounds that I apparently knew nothing of the reality and yet had an opinion. And no, its not what you are doing here at all.
Quote:
LOL, your union or whatever it is, you don't say what it is exactly, is great because it lobbies the government on behalf of it's members? How is that great? Who benefits? The world? Your country?Mankind? Or the union members?
Its a federation that represents more than 180 000 small business owners. It serves its member first and foremost. Why don't you believe me? Why LOL? This is what I mean, you are not discussing anything. Why it is great that this organization represents its members through campaigning and lobbying is directly related to the principle behind unions. That's what we are discussing, right?
Comments
Another sign of the waning influence of labor unions in America. Good riddance!
Another two bit Far Right comment with zero substance.
I tell ya what, how about you go bitch about the > $1 Trillion in corporate welfare of late, not to mention several trillion over the past 20 years this country has given to Corporations and not it's middle class to spur the economy.
You just might get someone to listen to it.
(Rip-Roaring Laughter)
WOAH! I don't know about NY Unions but the 'principle' behind labour unions is good. I am not saying there isn't thuggery but the idea of an organization standing up for the 'worker', you know, the 'common man' is a good thing in principle, right?. Unless, of course, you really believe that the government ensures that people are treated fairly in all walks of life.
WOAH! If you think for a minute that unions are all about the workers best interests then you are delusional. I would be the last person to say that the government is great but it is their role.
The "principal" behind unions is that they need to survive. In order to survive, they need members who pay dues. Those are the only "principles". They will do anything in their power, legal or otherwise to make it happen.
People like you who base things on some sort of "theory" and have no experience with reality are scary. You don't know anything about the situation but have an opinion anyway.
Agreed One Hundred percent! Union members are parasites who contribute nothing to the companies that employ them, driving up costs that make companies uncompetitive. Just look at GM for goodness sakes.
GM failed repeatedly to uphold it's contracts. Blame GM, not the Labor Unions.
By the way, GM sucks because their cars suck. You make a crappy product you don't go blaming the lack of market share on the assemblers.
Another two bit Far Right comment with zero substance.
I tell ya what, how about you go bitch about the > $1 Trillion in corporate welfare of late, not to mention several trillion over the past 20 years this country has given to Corporations and not it's middle class to spur the economy.
You just might get someone to listen to it.
That is another issue that doesn't relate to unions.
This country extorted it's labor class for > 100 years and they revolted.
Unions were created and leveraged to exert power back against the corporations who don't exist without them.
Corporations continue to suck off the nation's teets and blame all their woes on Labor.
They used that bait n' switch to use cheap labor overseas and asked for more subsidies in the form of tax breaks.
They continued to make crappy products and continued to blame the labor and not their own designs and ideas.
There is a balance and until corporations own their failures you won't see labor giving a rat's ass about them.
Crapping on the Labor force will only result in Labor Unions restoring growth at record numbers. Corporations thinking short term are fools and will reap what they sew.
A Union has no need for existence if the balance between Bosses and Labor was a amenable and mutually beneficial relationship.
That is another issue that doesn't relate to unions.
Like hell it doesn't. You don't beg for cash and blame your lack of profits on labor costs at the same time. Grow up.
GM failed repeatedly to uphold it's contracts. Blame GM, not the Labor Unions.
By the way, GM sucks because their cars suck. You make a crappy product you don't go blaming the lack of market share on the assemblers.
I won't argue whether or not GM has or had bad management or about the quality of their products. However it's not very easy to compete with other companies when you look at what demands the UAW won and how much it cost the company in money, lost efficiency and lack of progress.
The UAW unionized workers at Cornell University (please, what does a university have to do with the automobile industry?!) and were a pain in the ass with all their demands and requirements, especially those that penalized students by curtailing the work-study programs so the union could get more jobs. Shameful!
Like hell it doesn't. You don't beg for cash and blame your lack of profits on labor costs at the same time. Grow up.
Telling me to "grow up" is not a valid argument. I deal with unions on a weekly basis. Do you?
Just remember that no matter what you do for a living, everyone else thinks it is too much and there is a long line of people willing to do your job for less.
Why would anyone want to vote Steve Jobs out?
Perhaps it is because Apple does zero manufacturing here in the USA.
WOAH! If you think for a minute that unions are all about the workers best interests then you are delusional. I would be the last person to say that the government is great but it is their role.
The "principal" behind unions is that they need to survive. In order to survive, they need members who pay dues. Those are the only "principles". They will do anything in their power, legal or otherwise to make it happen.
People like you who base things on some sort of "theory" and have no experience with reality are scary. You don't know anything about the situation but have an opinion anyway.
Don't be scared. I won't bite. You didn't say government is great but you did present the idea that government ensures fair treatment of all its citizens in all walks of life as an argument. That makes you a little scary, come to think of it.
To state that the "principal" as you put it, behind unions is their need to survive, is naive. That is not a principle per se, though I agree that it is a requisite for any union's ability to perform.
I don't see why you are so worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions. I don't base 'things' on some sort of 'theory'. I am not claiming unions are beacons of high morality or any such thing. I am sure many unions are as corrupt as you imply but I belong to a union (of sorts) which does great work in lobbying the government on behalf of its members. It clearly is a very different organization than what you deal with on a weekly basis. Its not in the US and its not run by the mafia.
There is always a balance to be struck between Employee and Employer.
This country extorted it's labor class for > 100 years and they revolted.
Unions were created and leveraged to exert power back against the corporations who don't exist without them.
Corporations continue to suck off the nation's teets and blame all their woes on Labor.
They used that bait n' switch to use cheap labor overseas and asked for more subsidies in the form of tax breaks.
They continued to make crappy products and continued to blame the labor and not their own designs and ideas.
There is a balance and until corporations own their failures you won't see labor giving a rat's ass about them.
Crapping on the Labor force will only result in Labor Unions restoring growth at record numbers. Corporations thinking short term are fools and will reap what they sew.
A Union has no need for existence if the balance between Bosses and Labor was a amenable and mutually beneficial relationship.
You are very poorly educated on the subject. As I stated before, unions are a business unto themselves. they generate money as monopolies within companies through dues. The more members and the higher the employee benefits, the more money they make.
They are never going to say:" our job is done, no more unions". Anyone who thinks that someone is going to give up making all that money because they are not needed anymore is dreaming.
Don't be scared. I won't bite. You didn't say government is great but you did present the idea that government treats its citizens fairly in all walks of life as an argument. That makes you a little scary, come to think of it.
To state that the "principal" as you put it, behind unions is their need to survive, is naive. That is not a principle per se, though I agree that it is a requisite for any union's ability to perform.
I don't see why you are so worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions. I don't base 'things' on some sort of 'theory'. I am not claiming unions are beacons of high morality or any such thing. I am sure many unions are as corrupt as you imply but I belong to a union (of sorts) which does great work in lobbying the government on behalf of its members. It clearly is a very different organization than what you deal with on a weekly basis. Its not in the US and its not run by the mafia.
Sorry but you fail at reading comprehension. I never even remotely said that government treats it's citizens fairly in all walks of life. I would be the LAST person to ever say that.
Where did I ever say that I was worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions? That's what I'm doing here, no? The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said and accuse me of things that aren't true is scary.
LOL, your union or whatever it is, you don't say what it is exactly, is great because it lobbies the government on behalf of it's members? How is that great? Who benefits? The world? Your country?Mankind? Or the union members?
You are very poorly educated on the subject. As I stated before, unions are a business unto themselves. they generate money as monopolies within companies through dues. The more members and the higher the employee benefits, the more money they make.
They are never going to say:" our job is done, no more unions". Anyone who thinks that someone is going to give up making all that money because they are not needed anymore is dreaming.
It is quite evident that you are ignorant of the labor movement. The reason we have unions is because of bad management. You claim to deal with unions on a 'weekly' basis. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to your first hand knowledge as a bad manager.
try and bring something into javits center on a luggage rack and then tell me all about your pleasant experience.
they mustered up about 3.8 million votes. jobs alone owns over 100 million shares. shows you their mentality when they are spending somebody elses money. they have no credibility and continue to have delusions.
suggest they come to nj to find out which way the wind is blowing. nyc is not far behind.
To me - I am a former member of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers - unions are what Ayn Rand would call an attempt for the unearned.
Unions are parasitic by their very nature: they do not produce a product; they skim off the top of other people's industry; they will eventually eat a company alive with ever-increasing costly demands. I do not believe most people would belong to a union given a choice; most union shops are closed, compulsory.
Union members are forced to see their dues contributed to liberal politicians whether or not that member supports said politician. They promote socialist dogma, i.e. abortion on demand, under the guise of supporting women's rights.
I don't see this happening under present political conditions, but I would like to see Unions, which are truly political organizations with political agendas, as shareholders but without voting rights.
Finally, check out an old Peter Sellers movie, "I'm Allright Jack!" It was intended as a satire and wound up being cinema verite.
Sorry but you fail at reading comprehension. I never even remotely said that government treats it's citizens fairly in all walks of life. I would be the LAST person to ever say that.
What you said was: 'The government makes sure ( at least is supposed to) that people are treated fairly in all aspects of life'. In other words you presented the idea as part of your argument, did you not? You may have qualified it with '(at least it is supposed to)', but what does that mean in the context?
Where did I ever say that I was worried about discussing the principles or ideas behind unions? That's what I'm doing here, no? The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said and accuse me of things that aren't true is scary.
I didn't say you said that (help!). You dismissed me on the grounds that I apparently knew nothing of the reality and yet had an opinion. And no, its not what you are doing here at all.
LOL, your union or whatever it is, you don't say what it is exactly, is great because it lobbies the government on behalf of it's members? How is that great? Who benefits? The world? Your country?Mankind? Or the union members?
Its a federation that represents more than 180 000 small business owners. It serves its member first and foremost. Why don't you believe me? Why LOL? This is what I mean, you are not discussing anything. Why it is great that this organization represents its members through campaigning and lobbying is directly related to the principle behind unions. That's what we are discussing, right?
Perhaps it is because Apple does zero manufacturing here in the USA.
and the american squirrel is responsible for the lack of rainfall in the sahara.