Toyota to go all hybrid by 2012

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
<a href="http://www.auto.com/industry/iwird25_20021025.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.auto.com/industry/iwird25_20021025.htm</a>;



Who's next? Honda, Chevy, Ford? They also state that there will have a fuel cell mass produced car by 2010. This is good news for the environment and pollution levels in our big cities. Except for the SUV explosion of the 90s, there has been a trend for smaller and more fuel efficient cars.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 67
    Go Toyota! This is a win for the environment.
  • Reply 2 of 67
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,502member
    This is very cool. However, whether or not it is a win for the environment is yet to be seen. What are the other waste products that these hybrid cars have that other standard cars do not? A much higher battery count for one, anything else? I am thinking no, but it is a thought...
  • Reply 3 of 67
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Why get all excited over vaporware?
  • Reply 4 of 67
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>Why get all excited over vaporware?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    why is it vaporware?



    hybrid cars on the market now... more and more are coming.



    fuel cell cars ARE coming...



    don't see your point
  • Reply 5 of 67
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:

    <strong>This is very cool. However, whether or not it is a win for the environment is yet to be seen. What are the other waste products that these hybrid cars have that other standard cars do not? A much higher battery count for one, anything else? I am thinking no, but it is a thought...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    They have less exhaust from their internal combustion engine and the electric motors don't use the toxic lead acid batteries that cars use now but a more advanced technology. Even nickel cadmium or nickel metal hydride would be superior. NiMH has the advantage of not keeping memory in the cells like NiCd (this is important because the batteries will be charged up in abnormal intervals), although NiCd will offer a higher amp output than NiMH. but this may not even be an issue if they use the right kind of motor.



    But this is only one type of hybrid. So far the only ones are electric motors that power the car up to 15mph or so, then after that the gas engine takes over. This is equitable because an electric motor is very powerful in pushing heavy objects and gas engines waste much gas in the acceleration from 0mph. A gas engine is better at midrange power like 20mph+.

    The other option is to have a set up like what you would find in some trains: an internal combustion engine turning a generator that in turn powers an electric motor that propels the vehicle. I think this is the superior method because the gas engine is much simpler to maintain and would last much longer than a typical gas engine in a modern car. Why? because an engine like this will have a steady load. All it does is power a generator. Steady rpm. It can be a 2 cylinder 4 stroke. It would need it's own battery and a small battery run off between the electric motor and generator. I think honda or BMW is working on this set up.
  • Reply 6 of 67
    very good news. toyota and honda are leading the rest of the automotive world in innovation towards increasing efficiency.



    anyone heard anything new about the law proposed in california outlawing vehicles w/ CO2 exhaust within the next 20 years or so? i believe the american car companies threw a fit because they have no clue how to innovate. the japanese companies were willing enough though...

    why is this country so good in most things but yet suck so badly at an invention that started over here...??



    this is why ill never drive an american car...
  • Reply 7 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>Why get all excited over vaporware?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    if you don't know what yer talking about, why talk at all...?? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 8 of 67
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    [quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:

    <strong>



    if you don't know what yer talking about, why talk at all...?? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>



    What makes you say that? Are the cars here now? No. Will they be? No one knows. So I ask again. Why get all worked up over what a car company says they are going to do in 10 years?
  • Reply 9 of 67
    And here I thought you were making a pun on fuel cells and their vapor emissions. How disappointing.
  • Reply 10 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>



    What makes you say that? Are the cars here now? No. </strong><hr></blockquote>





    umm...yes, they are. ever heard of the Honda Insight (honda is doing the same thing as toyota, starting by making the civic hybrid, which is already in the States), and the Toyota Prius?? making all their cars hybrids isn't all that difficult, especially considering that what they have available in japan already is almost completely different from what they have here--all they have to do is put the technology THEY ALREADY HAVE into use over here. so i ask again, why are you even replying to a thread with a topic you obviously know nothing about?
  • Reply 11 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

    <strong>



    They have less exhaust from their internal combustion engine and the electric motors don't use the toxic lead acid batteries that cars use now but a more advanced technology. Even nickel cadmium or nickel metal hydride would be superior. NiMH has the advantage of not keeping memory in the cells like NiCd (this is important because the batteries will be charged up in abnormal intervals), although NiCd will offer a higher amp output than NiMH. but this may not even be an issue if they use the right kind of motor.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I don't know about Toyota, but the GM EV's used Delphi Lead-Acid batties.



    [quote] From <a href="http://www.formulasun.org/education/se9_elec.html"; target="_blank">ForumulaSun.org</a> <strong>

    The NiCad, NiMH, and Lithium batteries offer improved power to weight ratio over the more common Lead-Acid batteries, but they are less proven technologies that require careful maintenance and are more costly.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    [ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: smithjoel ]</p>
  • Reply 12 of 67
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    How close are we to the limits of efficiency in an internal combustion engine? I think the most practical answer to clean cars will still be to carry the generator around with you. We like vehicles with autonomy, especially in America.



    I read somewhere that you can get dramatic improvements in efficiency but keeping a steady RPM. With an electric motor to provide torque under low speed loads, a CVT to minimize RPM changes, regenerative braking, direct fuel injection, and some other neat combustion tricks, we may have internal combustion engined for a while yet. What about bio-diesel?



    enviromentally friendly doesn't have to mean boring:



    <a href="http://www.carkeys.co.uk/features/FE000450.htm"; target="_blank">Check this out</a>



    155MPH and 113MPG, from GM no less :eek:
  • Reply 13 of 67
    since all oil will run out in about 40 years, i suspect all car companies will have hybrids and alternative autos coming out over the next 20 years....i will most likely live to see a day will NO gasoline cars left in the world (except museum and show pieces)....g
  • Reply 13 of 67
    well honda has already developed a zero emission vehicle. the next stage in automotive innovation (which is already being done, primarly by honda and toyota) is hydrogen feul cells, which gives off exhaust consisting of good ol H20. which do you prefer?? methane, hydrocarbons, and all kinds of other traditional pollutants, or...water...? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
  • Reply 15 of 67
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [quote]Originally posted by smithjoel:

    [QB]I don't know about Toyota, but the GM EV's used Delphi Lead-Acid batties.

    <hr></blockquote>



    The problem with lead acid is that the weight to power ratio is horrid. We still use it as a starter cell because it's one advantage is that it can pump out crazy amounts of amperage for a starter motor that only needs to run for a short time to start the engine. Also note the GM EV is no longer in production. The weight of the batteries was too much. And it cost too much. GM is however working on some more advanced vehicles. There was an article posted once on this board about it.
  • Reply 15 of 67
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    [quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:

    <strong>





    umm...yes, they are. ever heard of the Honda Insight (honda is doing the same thing as toyota, starting by making the civic hybrid, which is already in the States), and the Toyota Prius?? making all their cars hybrids isn't all that difficult, especially considering that what they have available in japan already is almost completely different from what they have here--all they have to do is put the technology THEY ALREADY HAVE into use over here. so i ask again, why are you even replying to a thread with a topic you obviously know nothing about?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Oh so is Honda all 100% electric. No. That was the point but you over looked that. If in 10 years Toyota doesn't think they can make money off a complete hybrid fleet then they wont do it. Nothing's real until it happens.



    Why do you assume my pesimism about Toyota's claim to be 100% hybrid in 10 years assumes I know nothing about the subject? How do you know what I know about fuel cell and electric cars? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 17 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>



    Oh so is Honda all 100% electric. No. That was the point but you over looked that. If in 10 years Toyota doesn't think they can make money off a complete hybrid fleet then they wont do it. Nothing's real until it happens.



    Why do you assume my pesimism about Toyota's claim to be 100% hybrid in 10 years assumes I know nothing about the subject? How do you know what I know about fuel cell and electric cars? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>





    let me explain something to you. do you realize why japanese companies are putting so much effort into this type of innovation?? it's because they dont have the oil supply that we do! they cant go around wasting fuel at every turn the way we do in the US! therefore, they have to make efficient vehicles! which is why they are doing this! they make all their cars efficient, therefore everyone in japan will save money on all the fuel theyre saving, therefore they will buy these hybrids! does this not make sense?!?!?! they do things over there first, and then bring it over here. therefore, it will be done. sooner of later people here will realize that the wastefullness of american cars is unacceptable.



    btw, the way you are talking, you assume that this will NOT happen. you dismiss any possibility of it happening. there is a greater chance of it happening than of it failing, which is why you are no longer credible.
  • Reply 18 of 67
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Okay so what? I'll believe it when I see it. Fuel cell cars hybrid electrics when I see them then I'll know there here. I've seen too many industry goals come and go to get all excited over yet another one.
  • Reply 19 of 67
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    It's a wonder people still get sucked in by such simple trolls.
  • Reply 20 of 67
    Tru Dat, Groverat. Tru Dat. Looking more moderator-like with every post.
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