Apple's success contributes to departure of Acer, Nokia, LG CEOs

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  • Reply 41 of 97
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    sorry if somebody already said this (I was skimming comments kinda fast), but remember all the chuckleheads last year who insisted that the iPad was not having any real effect on the PC or netbook markets? I'm thinking of people like Paul Thurrott (who also begged his readers to please, please, please not buy an iPad).



    Time for Gruber to serve up some claim chowder.



    Well I can't wait until Saturday morning to read what the Macalope over at Macworld is "hoofing" out over the news this week. He's probably started over a couple of times, because this weeks "Juic-E-Newz-Extract" makes the Kool-Aid go down smoother
  • Reply 42 of 97
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    My point is that those devices introduced millions of people to the quality of Apple products and services plus also the availability of MS Office and the option to dual windows has led more people to choose a Mac over a PC.



    Your original point was:



    "That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy."



    What you, and others, fail to recognize is the fact that Apple .... on all of it's product, including the iPod, iPhone and iPad line, control the making of the software and hardware ... together. They do this because it's consistant with their philosophy.



    Steve has said many, many times and in many ways that the reason that they are in business is to make the best product that they are capable of. I know other companies say similar things about their product but you only have to see what kind of decisions they make to see that their hearts and souls are not tied in to that philosopy .... too many decisions that are profit based rather than quality based.



    As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.
  • Reply 43 of 97
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    your last sentence explains it and completely contradicts your first. It's the vision of thinking 20 years down the road combined with the clarity to not release junk just to get something on the market that creates Apple's loyal customers.



    The mess that is the Win32 API vs the uniformity and scalability of the OS X APIs has everything to do with that vision of not just building for today, but planning for the future. Decisions over 20 years ago at NeXT are a huge part of why Apple is where they are today and why they can move innovate and move forward faster than their competition.



    And it's not just planning for the future, it's the attention to detail every step of the way. All the way back to the original Apple 2 where Jobs made Woz design an all new power supply to eliminate the fan before they released it. Any other company would have just had a fan to ship the product.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    You start out with this nonsensical statement, then proceed to write 3 lucid paragraphs destroying your topic sentence. Interesting.



    You two miss the whole point of what a cult is.. The cult leaders usually have a vision and they are usually fanatical about the details and things have to be done their way. The cult leader also knows what their followers want and gives it to them at the appropriate times. They usually do not give them everything, keep them wanting more or the next thing.



    So yes Apple is a cult, people are bought in, even people who probably can not afford it. they can not seem to live without it.



    The competitor are do not have this, they do not leave people wanting more, they are very transactional at best, they only worry about the current transaction not any future one, they do not worry about the person leaving their church the figure someone new will walk in behind them.



    Honestly, if Steve was not technology geek he probably would have been a cult leader, oh yeah he is that, he has the largest cult in the world besides a few well known religions.



    BTW, if you have not figures it out, it is a metaphor for their business practices.
  • Reply 44 of 97
    Or - why not offer your CEO and incentive - whereby he gets some huge bonus - or direct percentage of the profits for any product that he (or she) brings to market which beats Apple.





    Hmmm.... Great idea! Let's give them smaller wage packages but offset it with stock options as part of their compensation. That way, if they guide the company well and share holder value goes up, the CEO can sell his stock and make a nice profit for his effort. I can't believe no one ever thought of that before.
  • Reply 45 of 97
    Agree with the comments above about vision/hardware/Software. I would add a brilliant marketing campaign over the years. Not only are Apple products practical, but cool too. In our society today, for better or worse, this sells big time.



    (edit Subject - "One More thing")
  • Reply 46 of 97
    alandailalandail Posts: 755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy. Macs didn't save Apple, the iPod did, then the iPhone and now the iPad have made it hugely successful. If it weren't for those devices Apple would be a very different company, and it would've been SJ getting fired yet again.



    the business model didn't have them at the brink of bankruptcy, it was the incompetence at the top under Sculley/Gasse/Spindler of advancing things and sustaining the model. To the point where they had to scrap everything and start over. Sculley had a brief golden period of riding the coattails of what was built before him, but lacked the technical expertise to help the company stay ahead.



    The business model itself is a proven success and now has Apple as the 2nd largest company in the world. And the business model is the reason Apple can release products that cause their competitors to throw their newly announced products in the trash and start over. Apple is the only company that does what they do - design the hardware and the software across a range of products that spans desktop computers, notebook computers and mobile devices. Everything from the core OS, to the user interface, to custom silicone to every detail of industrial engineering. That's the only way to have all of the resulting pieces fit together like a glove. They even advance the glass and aluminum technology they use. Nobody else does all of that.



    And at this point, nobody else even has the resources and experience to attempt it. Dell isn't going to build a scalable OS - that's a decade long project, Microsoft isn't going to suddenly build computers, Google isn't going to start developing new types of glass.



    Edit: Apple's infrastructure extends all the way down to free support at the genius bars in their stores.
  • Reply 47 of 97
    nkalunkalu Posts: 315member
    Jobs has been proven right again when he said the competitors were "flummoxed". Sad.
  • Reply 48 of 97
    I hope Apple has started a revolution where large corporations put the customer first instead of the stock price. Too many of these guys who were fired were focused on looking good to the stock holders instead of the people who bought their products. Steve jobs and Apple go out of their way to make products that the average person can use and use well.



    If someone would interview the many thousands of people lined up to buy the iPad 2, they would learn something. Give the customer something easy to use, quality built, supremely supported and intelligently designed and they will throw money at them. Is that so hard to understand? These guys deserve to get fired.
  • Reply 49 of 97
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post


    They are the MOST profitable PC makers in the world. . . .

    I think this article explains the rise of the Apple haters on the web. All those jobless ex-CEOs . . . spitting vitriol towards Apple, who played a huge part in their dismissals.



    I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.



    I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.



    It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.



    But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.
  • Reply 50 of 97
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member
    "outmatched in terms of both hardware and software."



    Acer went for market share instead of profits. By selling e-waste-ready netbooks at razor thin margins. iPad put an end to that strategy and Acer will probably not be able to compete.



    Acer's new strategy is to sell higher-profit devices? Like iPad clones? I don't think it's possible to make money doing that. Apple gets the best component prices since they place the biggest orders with their suppliers. Apple has already become the world's biggest consumer of flash memory, and everyone else needs to outbid each other to get the remainder. Now Apple is doing the same with the world's supply of touch screens. The result? Apple gets lower per-unit prices and bigger margins.



    And that's just the hardware side of the problem. On the software side, Acer doesn't own an OS. They are at the mercy of Microsoft and/or Google. Neither of which has shown any ability to compete with Apple and iOS in the pad computing space. Microsoft's major partner is Nokia, and all the rest are generic me-too no-hopers. Google has clamped down on Android fragmentation, which means their hardware partners will also be generic me-too no-hoper cloners. That simply won't be profitable.



    And after the Oracle lawsuit is resolved, the best case scenario is that all Android manufacturers will pay Oracle for each and every handset and pad they make. This eliminates the last remaining advantage Android had. No more open, no more free, no more differentiation. Google is the new Microsoft, at least in terms of OSes.



    Could Acer write their own OS? Yes, but it would take 5 years to develop the OS and 5 years after that to build an iTunes / App Store-like infrastructure. And by then, in 2021, Apple will have already moved on to the next big thing. Been there, distrupted that. What's next?
  • Reply 51 of 97
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newbee View Post


    Your original point was:



    "That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy."



    What you, and others, fail to recognize is the fact that Apple .... on all of it's product, including the iPod, iPhone and iPad line, control the making of the software and hardware ... together. They do this because it's consistant with their philosophy.



    Steve has said many, many times and in many ways that the reason that they are in business is to make the best product that they are capable of. I know other companies say similar things about their product but you only have to see what kind of decisions they make to see that their hearts and souls are not tied in to that philosopy .... too many decisions that are profit based rather than quality based.



    As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.



    Yes that model works for Apple but do you believe anyone else is capable of using it successfully? What would've happened had Dell, HP, Gateway, etc… all decided to run their own OSs? How many different platforms can the market handle?
  • Reply 52 of 97
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    I'm investing in sword futures. There's going to be a reasonably high demand for them so these guys can fall on them.
  • Reply 53 of 97
    phalanxphalanx Posts: 109member
    Of, course. ...and i think Apple success has caused Egypt to overthrow their dictator, and helped the US dollar to improve across the world. This is the most amazing reporting I have ever heard. So what successes from competitors caused recent Apple exec departures, you geniuses.
  • Reply 54 of 97
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    as a tangent - I think the major factor limiting Apple's market share was not price per unit - but that the products last so long - you only need to buy them half as often as competitor's products get replaced.



    The upside of that is after two or three years a Mac is worth 70% or more of the original price if it is in great condition with all the original packing. Compare that to a PC! This allows folks like me to upgrade often while the second hand one I sell often goes to a new Apple user who otherwise couldn't afford a Mac and would have bought a PC.



    On top of that most people I know once they buy something from Apple, buy another and another and another ... part of that is the fact they are so well made and last forever. So, in the broader picture I don't think the build quality limits Apple sales as you suggest, quite the reverse IMHO.
  • Reply 55 of 97
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy. Macs didn't save Apple, the iPod did, then the iPhone and now the iPad have made it hugely successful. If it weren't for those devices Apple would be a very different company, and it would've been SJ getting fired yet again.



    Your argument makes no sense at all. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad are exactly the same as the Mac, hardware and software fully integrated, the "walled garden" the critics like to bash. The original bondi blue iMac changed the equation. I do not agree at all with your assertion that making the hardware and the software is not a good business model. This model has, in fact, made Apple the second most valuable company on the planet.
  • Reply 56 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    If it was simply a matter of having a lot of money to throw at problems, then Meg Whitman would be Governor of California.

    Jobs said it years ago in the famous quote that Microsoft's problem was simply that they had no taste.

    Taste isn't something you can just buy. There really is a case for creative people having a seat at the table, not just end-of-quarter bean counters and feature check-off engineers.



    Welcome to the forum.



    Jobs said it years ago in the famous quote that Microsoft's problem was simply that they had no taste.



    For those interested in seeing the clip containing the above quote, here is the url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgOP_aqqtg
  • Reply 57 of 97
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mhikl View Post


    I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.



    I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.



    It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.



    But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.



    I have seen this above scenario play out so many times and it still does with a twist now though.



    ... The local PC repair nerds around here still do the same trick that's been going on for best part of three decades. They run up a large enough bill 'investigating' a PC problem to scare the crap out of the poor sod that took it in. Then the bait and switch ... "I can sell you (i.e. 'build') a new one for not much more (with Windows 7 big grin). Of course once the deal is done the PC is fixed in five minutes and sold or used for parts. The new twist? .... The nerds now have their own iPods and many also now have an MBP all their own hidden in back.
  • Reply 58 of 97
    phalanxphalanx Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newbee View Post


    Your original point was:



    As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.



    I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights. But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!



    Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.
  • Reply 59 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mhikl View Post


    I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.



    I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.



    It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.



    But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.



    You guys are right-on! My experience with IT guys affirms your posts. The more complicated and abstruse the system, the more exclusive and "superior" the attitude. There is something innately controlling about IT guys.
  • Reply 60 of 97
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phalanx View Post


    . . . before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends . . . Won't that be cool!!!!!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I have seen this above scenario play out so many times and it still does with a twist now though.



    ... The new twist? .... The nerds now have their own iPods and many also now have an MBP all their own hidden in back.



    Nothing wrong with "cool" phalanx. I like girls to dress well, I choose great shoes because girls notice; style sells and if it gets you in the door and isn't just used to conceal bad graft, what the hey, eh?



    The whirling dervishes springing for Apple products. I like it. I am now more informed and therefore more ballsy when I meet these dudes and I call their bluff. What I am finding more, however, is backtracking. Most of the intelligent ones will profess some admiration for Apple but then go on about what they can do with their M$ stuff since they know how to deal with M$ headaches. I can respect that.



    There is a lot less profit for the independent sellers, now. I was reading Dvorak who finds he can't put a M$ DT together for less than what he purchase on the market which is as good or better. That totally takes the "cool" out of phalanx's preferences.
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