In few years no one will buy Point & Shoot cameras. There will be phone cameras & DSLRs. When I had my iPhone 3G I was looking at cameras with location geotagging because I love this feature in iPhoto 09 and how it organizes my photo. The cheapest one that work (sometimes) was at least $300. I decided no way. I will keep using my iPhone 3G even if the camera wasn't as good. Now with improved phone camera quality, and I don't mean in term of MP, I don't see any reason to bother with a dedicated camera that isn't a DSLR.
Excellent point. I traded up my 3Gs to a iP4 for exactly that reason (and increased battery life) and sold my Casio Exilim camera. The camera was just something else to dock, keep charged, have to remember - or more likely forget! And be careful not to leave it on the seat of my car.
Also, I was very happy to get rid of a USB cable and ugly power brick. I almost bought the wifi SD card for it for a $100! Ugh! Glad I didn't!
I briefly had considered a Flip a year ago but didn't buy one. I just use my iP4. I was looking at a stand alone GPS unit and again, just got TomTom GPS App for my iPhone.
What a great post. The Apple Effect. You could add: the entire music industry, the entire mobile telecom industry, the entire netbooks industry, and soon, the entire tv and movie industries.
I agree. IKrups was a great post and so are your additions...
In few years no one will buy Point & Shoot cameras. There will be phone cameras & DSLRs. When I had my iPhone 3G I was looking at cameras with location geotagging because I love this feature in iPhoto 09 and how it organizes my photo. The cheapest one that work (sometimes) was at least $300. I decided no way. I will keep using my iPhone 3G even if the camera wasn't as good. Now with improved phone camera quality, and I don't mean in term of MP, I don't see any reason to bother with a dedicated camera that isn't a DSLR.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone - and I don't see that changing any time soon. The technology just isn't there for a lens 5-10 mm in diameter to produce great quality pictures.
Personally, I love my ultra zoom. Great pictures and reasonably convenient (far more convenient than my old DSLR. I guess a professional could tell the difference between pictures taken with an ultra zoom and a DLSR, but it would be hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde
Apple doesn't make a standalone video camera.
There, fixed that for you.
Apple doesn't make a standalone video conferencing device.
There fixed that for you.
Who cares? Why does it need to be a standalone video camera to compete? If people are using their phones for video conferencing and as video cameras, then those people have decided that 'standalone' doesn't have any value for them.
I don't believe that cellphones will ever have large enough lens, to let in enough light, or optical zoom capability to replace point and shoots, even if they increase the megapixels exponentially it will only yield millions of crappy pixels.
Remember that the human eye has only about the same aperture as a cell phone camera, and people are pretty happy with it. I think it's extremely likely that high end digital cameras will get enormously better over the next few years, without increasing lens size, and cell phone cameras will eventually be about as good as today's DSLRs. This will come about by using sensors that are limited only by quantum photon counting statistics, by binning together counts for adjacent pixels when the light gets too low, by never closing down the aperture but instead using other techniques (such as Wavefront Coding) to control depth of field, and by having the solid-state equivalent of optical zoom in these very small optical systems.
What a great post. The Apple Effect. You could add: the entire music industry, the entire mobile telecom industry, the entire netbooks industry, and soon, the entire tv and movie industries.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone - and I don't see that changing any time soon. The technology just isn't there for a lens 5-10 mm in diameter to produce great quality pictures.
Personally, I love my ultra zoom. Great pictures and reasonably convenient (far more convenient than my old DSLR. I guess a professional could tell the difference between pictures taken with an ultra zoom and a DLSR, but it would be hard.
I said few years not now. Remember that for your average user they both look almost the same. Don't underestimate advancement in technology. Just look at pictures taken using the original iPhone (three years ago) and compare it to pictures taken using an iPhone 4. The demand for smartphone is increasing and now more than ever it is worth it to spend more R&D money on those tiny mobile camera sensors. There is lots of money to be made.
Three years back when I go to Wal-Mart or Best Buy I used to see many people around the digital camera area. Now, I hardly see anyone there. Last week I was at my son's elementary school musical and most people, including myself, were taking pictures and videos using phone cameras (mostly iPhones and Androids).
Disappointed in seeing Cisco abandon the Flip. The video quality is amazing. They just needed to get with the social aspect of the device in order to make it more appealing. Not everone owns or needs a smart phone. Flip is an awesome video recorder...thats all it needed to be.
Apparently not..... ...maybe in less clumsy hands it might have adapted.... ...but while some things converge and others diverge, the Flip was an endangered species anyway. And won't research it now, but think I've read better cam-corders in gen'l are well on the decline as P&S cam video - not to mention the smart-phone varietal, have emerged as "good enough," in much the same way our ears have dumbed down to accept 256K mp3's and AAC's as close enough to CD quality (which in turn was close enough to true hi-fi, didn't scratch easily and you didn't have to walk to the stereo every 18 minutes or so).
Convenience and less junk to carry are triumphing (a word??) incremental better quality in many areas.... ....fast sound, fast pics, fast vid, fast food....
...there are exceptions, like the Red, but true enthusiast markets with high prices are virtually always niche markets (even tho' they may also be quite profitable as per Mercedes, designer fashion and i7 MBP's, e.g.). The Flip basically got "squozed" from both sides, but mostly the bottom.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
With the high-end P&S + DSLR argument I can agree (but not necessarily LONG way for the P&S).
For the mid-end P&S-market, there are phones with cameras that clearly exceed their capabilities and picture quality. The N8 was the first and the next 12 months will likely bring more phones to that level and beyond from various manufacturers.
If I compare my Canon higher-end P&S (2008-vintage), My Canon 5D and my friend's N8 picture quality, the message is quite clear. The N8 sits comfortably in the middle.
And for joe average, why would he buy a P&S? For many devices, the quality is already "good enough".
Found one of these in a storeroom I was helping clean out a few years back. We plugged it in and it fired right up. Thing was built like a tank. The fan in it was ruffling papers on a desk 20 feet away on the other side of the room! I wonder what happened to it - probably lost in the surplus property system somewhere...
Just about 3 to 5 years ago Linksys gear was quality consumer routers, modems etc. In the past 2 years, I think they've just had their legs sliced off by every cheap piece-of-crap router manufacturer and Linksys quality suffered in the end.
Not to mention some Linksys network adapters I had, for which Windows7 64-bit drivers never came, so I had to go and buy a D-link of all things. 3 years ago D-link was total bottom-of-the-line rubbish. Now they're everywhere!
Everyone slowly realises what a bitch it is dealing with any aspect of consumer gear and consumer retail. It's real different from the corporate world.
With the high-end P&S + DSLR argument I can agree (but not necessarily LONG way for the P&S).
For the mid-end P&S-market, there are phones with cameras that clearly exceed their capabilities and picture quality. The N8 was the first and the next 12 months will likely bring more phones to that level and beyond from various manufacturers.
If I compare my Canon higher-end P&S (2008-vintage), My Canon 5D and my friend's N8 picture quality, the message is quite clear. The N8 sits comfortably in the middle.
And for joe average, why would he buy a P&S? For many devices, the quality is already "good enough".
Regs, Jarkko
Don't forget across Asia a DSLR is a must-show-off status symbol if you are doing any sort of non-cellphone photography. Even if you are a young woman.
Canon and Nikon are doing very well in these areas by adapting their DSLRS for the lower end without compromising their high-end. Sony? Well, as usual trying to do everything from phone cameras to point-and-shoot to DSLRs. It tried to come out with the NEX but in Asia anyway a NEX isn't as bad ass as a "real" DSLR.
With the iPhone and its knockoff android wannabes sporting HD video and ok stills, not many people would carry another device doing a similar function.
Frankly Cisco's expansion to 29 areas, as it was announced several years ago, has been a flop all around. They rested on their laurels for networking and others started to chip away at their market. Trying to become a big conglomerate, they lacked focus so they got damaged.
Oh, no need. It will inevitably invite entry, and some day, someone else will come along, and the whole process of creative destruction will start up all over again. That's the beauty of capitalism.
Right now, the only creative destructor in town seems to be Apple. Hence The Apple Effect.
Remember that the human eye has only about the same aperture as a cell phone camera, and people are pretty happy with it. ...
The human eye, which has some serious software behind it, still far in advance of today's camera software, doesn't actually "record" very accurate pictures, although it works quite well for the purpose it serves, although, not always when, for example, under the influence of alcohol.
Now cameras on phones and tablets are getting better and better, point & shoot cameras and camcorders have to retire. It's just evolution, just like digital camera killed traditional camera
Oh, no need. It will inevitably invite entry, and some day, someone else will come along, and the whole process of creative destruction will start up all over again. That's the beauty of capitalism.
Right now, the only creative destructor in town seems to be Apple. Hence The Apple Effect.
Except when big bailouts prevent said destruction. That's the ugly side of "capitalism".
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot.[...]Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone
Personally I love my Canon EOS 40D with my F2.8 lenses - but I don't always have it with me. Sure, I can take a technically superior picture with it, but if I don't capture it at all the relative merits of the iPhone vs. my 40D are pretty much irrelevant.
Comments
In few years no one will buy Point & Shoot cameras. There will be phone cameras & DSLRs. When I had my iPhone 3G I was looking at cameras with location geotagging because I love this feature in iPhoto 09 and how it organizes my photo. The cheapest one that work (sometimes) was at least $300. I decided no way. I will keep using my iPhone 3G even if the camera wasn't as good. Now with improved phone camera quality, and I don't mean in term of MP, I don't see any reason to bother with a dedicated camera that isn't a DSLR.
Excellent point. I traded up my 3Gs to a iP4 for exactly that reason (and increased battery life) and sold my Casio Exilim camera. The camera was just something else to dock, keep charged, have to remember - or more likely forget! And be careful not to leave it on the seat of my car.
Also, I was very happy to get rid of a USB cable and ugly power brick. I almost bought the wifi SD card for it for a $100! Ugh! Glad I didn't!
I briefly had considered a Flip a year ago but didn't buy one. I just use my iP4. I was looking at a stand alone GPS unit and again, just got TomTom GPS App for my iPhone.
Best
What a great post. The Apple Effect. You could add: the entire music industry, the entire mobile telecom industry, the entire netbooks industry, and soon, the entire tv and movie industries.
I agree. IKrups was a great post and so are your additions...
In few years no one will buy Point & Shoot cameras. There will be phone cameras & DSLRs. When I had my iPhone 3G I was looking at cameras with location geotagging because I love this feature in iPhoto 09 and how it organizes my photo. The cheapest one that work (sometimes) was at least $300. I decided no way. I will keep using my iPhone 3G even if the camera wasn't as good. Now with improved phone camera quality, and I don't mean in term of MP, I don't see any reason to bother with a dedicated camera that isn't a DSLR.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone - and I don't see that changing any time soon. The technology just isn't there for a lens 5-10 mm in diameter to produce great quality pictures.
Personally, I love my ultra zoom. Great pictures and reasonably convenient (far more convenient than my old DSLR. I guess a professional could tell the difference between pictures taken with an ultra zoom and a DLSR, but it would be hard.
Apple doesn't make a standalone video camera.
There, fixed that for you.
Apple doesn't make a standalone video conferencing device.
There fixed that for you.
Who cares? Why does it need to be a standalone video camera to compete? If people are using their phones for video conferencing and as video cameras, then those people have decided that 'standalone' doesn't have any value for them.
I don't believe that cellphones will ever have large enough lens, to let in enough light, or optical zoom capability to replace point and shoots, even if they increase the megapixels exponentially it will only yield millions of crappy pixels.
Remember that the human eye has only about the same aperture as a cell phone camera, and people are pretty happy with it. I think it's extremely likely that high end digital cameras will get enormously better over the next few years, without increasing lens size, and cell phone cameras will eventually be about as good as today's DSLRs. This will come about by using sensors that are limited only by quantum photon counting statistics, by binning together counts for adjacent pixels when the light gets too low, by never closing down the aperture but instead using other techniques (such as Wavefront Coding) to control depth of field, and by having the solid-state equivalent of optical zoom in these very small optical systems.
What a great post. The Apple Effect. You could add: the entire music industry, the entire mobile telecom industry, the entire netbooks industry, and soon, the entire tv and movie industries.
I kinda find that scary.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone - and I don't see that changing any time soon. The technology just isn't there for a lens 5-10 mm in diameter to produce great quality pictures.
Personally, I love my ultra zoom. Great pictures and reasonably convenient (far more convenient than my old DSLR. I guess a professional could tell the difference between pictures taken with an ultra zoom and a DLSR, but it would be hard.
I said few years not now. Remember that for your average user they both look almost the same. Don't underestimate advancement in technology. Just look at pictures taken using the original iPhone (three years ago) and compare it to pictures taken using an iPhone 4. The demand for smartphone is increasing and now more than ever it is worth it to spend more R&D money on those tiny mobile camera sensors. There is lots of money to be made.
Three years back when I go to Wal-Mart or Best Buy I used to see many people around the digital camera area. Now, I hardly see anyone there. Last week I was at my son's elementary school musical and most people, including myself, were taking pictures and videos using phone cameras (mostly iPhones and Androids).
Disappointed in seeing Cisco abandon the Flip. The video quality is amazing. They just needed to get with the social aspect of the device in order to make it more appealing. Not everone owns or needs a smart phone. Flip is an awesome video recorder...thats all it needed to be.
Apparently not..... ...maybe in less clumsy hands it might have adapted.... ...but while some things converge and others diverge, the Flip was an endangered species anyway. And won't research it now, but think I've read better cam-corders in gen'l are well on the decline as P&S cam video - not to mention the smart-phone varietal, have emerged as "good enough," in much the same way our ears have dumbed down to accept 256K mp3's and AAC's as close enough to CD quality (which in turn was close enough to true hi-fi, didn't scratch easily and you didn't have to walk to the stereo every 18 minutes or so).
Convenience and less junk to carry are triumphing (a word??) incremental better quality in many areas.... ....fast sound, fast pics, fast vid, fast food....
...there are exceptions, like the Red, but true enthusiast markets with high prices are virtually always niche markets (even tho' they may also be quite profitable as per Mercedes, designer fashion and i7 MBP's, e.g.). The Flip basically got "squozed" from both sides, but mostly the bottom.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot. Then there's the high end, but not DSLR cameras - like the new ultra zoom cameras.
With the high-end P&S + DSLR argument I can agree (but not necessarily LONG way for the P&S).
For the mid-end P&S-market, there are phones with cameras that clearly exceed their capabilities and picture quality. The N8 was the first and the next 12 months will likely bring more phones to that level and beyond from various manufacturers.
If I compare my Canon higher-end P&S (2008-vintage), My Canon 5D and my friend's N8 picture quality, the message is quite clear. The N8 sits comfortably in the middle.
And for joe average, why would he buy a P&S? For many devices, the quality is already "good enough".
Regs, Jarkko
Hehe... would be counter culture for them.
Found one of these in a storeroom I was helping clean out a few years back. We plugged it in and it fired right up. Thing was built like a tank. The fan in it was ruffling papers on a desk 20 feet away on the other side of the room! I wonder what happened to it - probably lost in the surplus property system somewhere...
Just about 3 to 5 years ago Linksys gear was quality consumer routers, modems etc. In the past 2 years, I think they've just had their legs sliced off by every cheap piece-of-crap router manufacturer and Linksys quality suffered in the end.
Not to mention some Linksys network adapters I had, for which Windows7 64-bit drivers never came, so I had to go and buy a D-link of all things. 3 years ago D-link was total bottom-of-the-line rubbish. Now they're everywhere!
Everyone slowly realises what a bitch it is dealing with any aspect of consumer gear and consumer retail. It's real different from the corporate world.
With the high-end P&S + DSLR argument I can agree (but not necessarily LONG way for the P&S).
For the mid-end P&S-market, there are phones with cameras that clearly exceed their capabilities and picture quality. The N8 was the first and the next 12 months will likely bring more phones to that level and beyond from various manufacturers.
If I compare my Canon higher-end P&S (2008-vintage), My Canon 5D and my friend's N8 picture quality, the message is quite clear. The N8 sits comfortably in the middle.
And for joe average, why would he buy a P&S? For many devices, the quality is already "good enough".
Regs, Jarkko
Don't forget across Asia a DSLR is a must-show-off status symbol if you are doing any sort of non-cellphone photography. Even if you are a young woman.
Canon and Nikon are doing very well in these areas by adapting their DSLRS for the lower end without compromising their high-end. Sony? Well, as usual trying to do everything from phone cameras to point-and-shoot to DSLRs. It tried to come out with the NEX but in Asia anyway a NEX isn't as bad ass as a "real" DSLR.
Frankly Cisco's expansion to 29 areas, as it was announced several years ago, has been a flop all around. They rested on their laurels for networking and others started to chip away at their market. Trying to become a big conglomerate, they lacked focus so they got damaged.
I kinda find that scary.
Oh, no need. It will inevitably invite entry, and some day, someone else will come along, and the whole process of creative destruction will start up all over again. That's the beauty of capitalism.
Right now, the only creative destructor in town seems to be Apple. Hence The Apple Effect.
Remember that the human eye has only about the same aperture as a cell phone camera, and people are pretty happy with it. ...
The human eye, which has some serious software behind it, still far in advance of today's camera software, doesn't actually "record" very accurate pictures, although it works quite well for the purpose it serves, although, not always when, for example, under the influence of alcohol.
Now cameras on phones and tablets are getting better and better, point & shoot cameras and camcorders have to retire. It's just evolution, just like digital camera killed traditional camera
Is this the new tekstud alias?
http://www.networkworld.com/communit..._am_2011-04-13
Network World posted an unbiased article on this earlier today:
http://www.networkworld.com/communit..._am_2011-04-13
How is the AppleInsider article biased? Do enlighten us.
Is this the new tekstud alias?
See post directly above.
Oh, no need. It will inevitably invite entry, and some day, someone else will come along, and the whole process of creative destruction will start up all over again. That's the beauty of capitalism.
Right now, the only creative destructor in town seems to be Apple. Hence The Apple Effect.
Except when big bailouts prevent said destruction. That's the ugly side of "capitalism".
How is the AppleInsider article biased? Do enlighten us.
And on it goes.
I did not say they were. I said Network Worlds' was not.
I disagree. We're a LONG way away from the time that any phone is going to take pictures of good enough quality to replace even a mid-range point-and-shoot.[...]Phones are great for quick photos. But if you want photos that will become permanent memories, you probably want something significantly better than a phone
The best camera is the one I have with me. My iPhone is always with me. It wins.
Personally, I love my ultra zoom.
Personally I love my Canon EOS 40D with my F2.8 lenses - but I don't always have it with me. Sure, I can take a technically superior picture with it, but if I don't capture it at all the relative merits of the iPhone vs. my 40D are pretty much irrelevant.